Pokemon of the Week #11: Grimer (See post #150) - Page 2

Nanoswine · Nov 6th, 2012, 1:01:11 PM

Porygon :>

Trace is an incredible ability that allows Porygon to check a huge amount of major threats. Combine that with Porygon's beast defenses (it can tank Brave Birds all day) and you have the greatest utility counter in all of LC. But we already know that. What most people don't focus on is Porygon's stellar Special Attack. It is as high as Missy's, but Porygon has STAB and coverage moves with higher BP than Missy, which allows it to run pretty good offensive sets. With Agility and LO Porygon can serve as a solid late-game cleaner, and with a Scarf it becomes the second best Double Rush counter in the game thanks to Trace, and can also Trick it's Scarf onto Lileep or Hippopotas after it has taken care of Drilbur/Sandshrew. Porygon is a very, very versatile Pokemon that is unfortunately viewed as a one-trick pony by a lot of players, so I'm really glad it was chosen for this PotW.

JacobNinja · Nov 6th, 2012, 1:07:44 PM

I like this pokemon of the week because my team already has a pory =>

Corkscrew · Nov 6th, 2012, 1:20:43 PM

The great thing about Porygon is that it can fit into almost any style of team, Offense, Balance, Stall etc... It can create a great defensive backbone on balance teams if it is partnered with something that can take on Fighters, Shelmet, Koffing etc... It can pair well with a tonne of pokemon. Trace allows it to take on loads of things whether they're offensive or defensive like Murkrow, Chinchou, Natu etc.
I'll probably try an offensive Porygon this week as I've never used one before so I'll be sure to post about that at another point.

Chieliee · Nov 6th, 2012, 1:52:24 PM

porygon can literally function in a million different ways

scarf, defensive, offensive etc etc

i think scarf's my favorite, best fucking revenge killer in the game
bye drilbur sandshrew misdreavus and many more

Good_Luck! · Nov 6th, 2012, 2:15:39 PM

Oh, how much I hate playing against Porygon. It should also be clear in the first Post that Analytic IS illegal according with the move legality guide. I have faced Analytic Porygon and it was a REAL pain in the ass as I wasn't prepared for such power.

Quote:

it can fit into almost any style of team, Offense, Balance, Stall etc...

I really like the versatility on Porygon but... Is stall viable on LC? I am yet to see a good team build around that strategy; not that I haven't tried it.

Maybe I should give Porygon a try on a heavily stallish team ^^.

Hawkstar · Nov 6th, 2012, 2:29:44 PM

Ah, that it is. I fixed it! Thanks for pointing that out. Too bad though, it is probably the best user of Analytic in any tier since its bulk and power in the Little Cup metagame, along with its low Speed, are unmatched by anything else with the ability.

Corkscrew · Nov 6th, 2012, 2:58:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Good_Luck!

I really like the versatility on Porygon but... Is stall viable on LC? I am yet to see a good team build around that strategy; not that I haven't tried it.

Maybe I should give Porygon a try on a heavily stallish team ^^.

It does have to be said, stall isn't the best in LC, but if you were to make a stall team Porygon would be great on it. It's great at switching into Natu who would otherwise give stall teams hell. It's the best feeling in the world when you switch into a Natu using Toxic ;)

spuds4ever · Nov 7th, 2012, 6:41:24 AM

Porygon's a great mon that works as others have mentioned as a great utility check to several of the metagame's most dangerous threats, including misdreavus, chinchou, and murkrow. Porygon fits bulky offense very nicely as it has a great list of options on how it can support its team other than checking a lot of threats like going offensive with a choice scarf or spreading paralysis. A really solid mon in my view.

I'll be giving it a run under the alt: Duck time

JacobNinja · Nov 7th, 2012, 3:23:17 PM

this is why I love pory <3 Cracking a sand lileep wide open with foongus's help in only 102 turns! http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc4033040

Also, good teamates are poison or ghost types to handle its crippling fighting weakness

Superpowerdude · Nov 8th, 2012, 4:31:00 AM

Porygon is an amazing LC pokemon. Its versatility is what makes it such a great pokemon i think because it can run a great defensive set with good bulk and acces to Recover, Toxic, Thunderwave. Porygon can also run offensive sets like the choice scarf set and even a Life Orb attacker set with Recover due to Porygons good movepool. Not only does Porygon have great stats and movepool but he has two amazing abilities in Trace and Download. Trace especially is so good on Porygon. Seriously the potential to trace abilities like Flash Fire from Houdnour, Regenerator from Foongus/Mienfoo, Volt Absorb from Chinchou and Sand Rush from Drilbur are absolutely huge. This makes Porygon a great utitlity pokemom as well.

Double Rush an increasing stragey revolving around Hippotas and Sandshrew and Drilbur are all stopped completely by Choice Scarf Porygon which is absolutely huge nowadays. Seriously the ability to almost be able to beat a whole style of play with one pokemon is utterly amazing. For any one confused this is the set i am talking about

Porygon @ Choice Scarf | Trace
Timid | 76 HP / 236 SpA / 196 Spe
Ice Beam | Tri Attack | Shadow Ball | Hidden Power [Grass] / Trick

After tracing sand rush and with a Choice Scarf intact Porygon can outspeed Drilbur, Sandshrew and Hippotas and pick them all of with Ice Beam.

I am also interasted to find out if any one has had succes using a Download Porygon. Maybe some sort of Agility+ Life Orb Download set would be quite cool. Thoughts?

Phazon00 · Nov 8th, 2012, 6:36:40 AM

Been battling with Porygon on an alt that never used it, and at 12-3 so far. Lesse what I can do.

EDIT: Goin' strong at 26-4

HaxGon: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc4088786

**mikel** · Nov 8th, 2012, 7:00:07 AM

The issue with the Agility + 3 Attacks set is that Download is illegal with Tri Attack, which leaves it without a STAB attack, and relying on BoltBeam + filler.

That Choice Scarf set is the set I'm having the most success with, as the standard defensive set just doesn't seem to pull its weight. On the other hand, the utility of a 21 Speed revenge killer, who can Trace Sand Rush, doubling its Speed (and making it immune to sand damage, which is always nice), can't be underestimated. It can revenge kill a good swathe of the metagame, and can also Trace and benefit from abilities such as Regenerator (revenge killing Mienfoo), Natural Cure (2HKOing Eviolite Staryu after Stealth Rock), and Volt Absorb (letting it switch in for free on Chinchou given prediction).

My favourite move on the Choice Scarf set is almost certainly Trick, as it can really mess up balanced teams. Lileep is a common switch-in to Porygon, as with its high Special Defense and HP, it easily walls the standard defensive set and can set up Stealth Rock against it. With Trick, you can cripple Lileep for the game, as it can't stand not being able to switch moves.

Now, it is definitely not enough just to have Choice Scarf Porygon to beat sand teams, I'm finding, as a good player will have something like Munchlax which giggles at anything Porygon throws at it, and deals 37.5 - 45.83% with Pursuit or 66.66 - 79.16% with Return. This starts to rack up, as Munchlax is absolutely a hard counter. Using a Will-O-Wisp Nasty Plot Misdreavus works out excellently in partnership with Porygon, as once burned, Munchlax is doing a mere 18.18 - 22.72% to Misdreavus and 33.33 - 37.5% to Porygon with Return. Alternatively, as Misdreavus doesn't really beat Munchlax in itself (although it does check all Fighting-types in the meta well except for Timburr), a bulky Fighting-type such as Timburr or Croagunk is handy to deal with Munchlax, Chinchou, and Magnemite, who can take Ice Beam with impunity (the latter less so) and retaliate with STAB Drain Punch or, in the case of Timburr, set up with Bulk Up, which typically means it can beat both Drilbur and Sandshrew.

Just my thoughts on Scarf Porygon. I don't claim to be an expert in Little Cup, but these are a couple of things I've found.

JacobNinja · Nov 8th, 2012, 7:40:12 AM

Actually somebody on iirc pointed out porygon got round, which is a special normal attack with 60 bp

**mikel** · Nov 8th, 2012, 7:42:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat JacobNinja

Actually somebody on iirc pointed out porygon got round, which is a special normal attack with 60 bp

Why use Round when you are already using Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, both of which are stronger and have near-perfect coverage together (save the ubiquitous Chinchou)?

JacobNinja · Nov 8th, 2012, 12:03:09 PM

I'm not sure, I use trace, but I felt it should be mentioned.

JacobNinja · Nov 9th, 2012, 9:36:05 PM

Going to nominate magnemite for potw 3, even though it doesn't work by nominations. Magnemite hits 14 speed neutrally, so he can go modest and still outspeed diglett/voltorb/elekid holding a scarf. He can also go bulky with eviolite to back up his obscene base 70 defense, which along with his steel typing makes him a hard to break wall. Unlike many other steels, magnemite has plenty of power, hitting 20 spa modestly and running the strongest electric moves in little cup, with STAB tbolt or thunder, along with volt switch. He can also trap steels with hpfire. His excellent defensive typing allowing him to work incredibly with fighting types, with a 4x resist and godly base defence to sponge up brave birds. He has 3 great abilities in sturdy, which can let him switch into a drain punch in a pinch, magnet pull, which can trap steels, and his dream world ability analytic. If you can sacrifice volt switch, magnemite can go incredibly bulky and powerful with eviolite and analytic, giving him an effective life orb boost along with +1 def/specdef.

tl;dr sorry for the wall of text, magnemite for potw3

**iss** · Nov 10th, 2012, 10:36:48 PM

Realized that I haven't played any games on iss since the reset. I guess it is a clean alt anyways, even though it really isn't an alt?

I used this team, as it was the only team I had lying around that had Porygon. Defensive Porygon is basically RestTalk Chinchou. There are a few minor differences: Porygon is a better Misdreavus check, Chinchou is a better Chinchou and MixKrow check, but they play pretty much the same. Porygon, however, has an easier time walling random threats, such as Archen, post-Gem Drifloon, and others, as Recover gives it much more reliable recovery and prevents Sleep Talk hax from screwing you over. Due to Recover only healing 50% it's pretty important to keep Porygon at high health, as otherwise it just stops being a check to virtually everything and instead just dies on the switch-in. Thunder Wave is absolutely essential to Porygon's success: by outspeeding the foe, Porygon can just stall for full paralysis with Recover, which doesn't take very long. Thunder Wave also cripples Life Orb/Choice Scarf Mienfoo, and is a pretty big hinderance to standard defensive/utility Mienfoo anyways. In general, as long as it has more than 75% of its health, defensive Porygon can wall nearly anything that doesn't have a STAB Fighting-type attack.

On the topic of offensive Porygon: I played a few games on a different account with Choice Scarf Porygon and Trick Room Porygon. Choice Scarf Porygon is pretty much the best counter to sand teams outside of Snover, and Snover brings its own drawbacks with hail and a Stealth Rock weakness. However, versus non-sand teams, it's a really mediocre Scarfer and only manages to save some utility through Trace. It's viable, but it really only should be used on teams with a big sand weakness that can't use Snover. Trick Room Download Porygon is interesting, but even at +1 Attack Return isn't killing much. It was pretty good in Gen 4, but Eviolite just makes everything too tanky :(

On teammates: a Ghost-type is pretty essential. Something like Misdreavus or Frillish that can switch into opposing Mienfoo is even better. I used Drifloon, which is pretty risky due to Stone Edge, but it can OHKO every major Fighting-type, which is nice. A Scraggy counter is also necessary: Thunder Wave helps out a bit, but Shed Skin can just destroy you if you're unlucky. Defensive Mienfoo is the most common counter, but Croagunk, Timburr, and a few others work as well. A Rapid Spinner is nice but not neccessary; Stealth Rock isn't that bad, but a few layers of Spikes can really hinder Porygon's walling capability, and Toxic Spikes is a death sentence. Heal Bell is nice too; utility Chinchou is too similar to Porygon to really use, so utility Misdreavus is probably the best choice. Porygon can't wall Archen or Drifloon if it switches in on a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics, so having something to tank that is pretty necessary (I didn't have a good wall for either, and had a lot of problems against them as a result).

Porygon is really interesting, but it's really pigeonholed into either a defensive set or a Choice Scarf set as a result of Eviolite. Offensive sets (Agility/Trick Room) just don't have enough power to sweep in this metagame (Agility Chinchou > Agility Porygon in most cases anyways).

JacobNinja · Nov 10th, 2012, 10:56:33 PM

If we're posting our peaks now, http://puu.sh/1oJ5T. I used my current team which I may end up doing an rmt on, which happened to already feature porygon. I ran standard twave/recover/tri attack/shadow ball porygon but with a modest nature, giving it a bit more power over other porygons. It is really good at sponging hits like brave bird or dark pulse, and if it traces a prankster it turns into a monster, spreading status and priority shuffling.

Hawkstar · Nov 13th, 2012, 2:03:05 PM

Congrats to iss and JacobNinja for reaching the requirements this round with Porygon! Unfortunately, we didn't have as many new discoveries as we did with Riolu, but we can't fault Porygon for being an excellent defensive Pokemon.

This week, our Pokemon of the Week is a bit more rare than Porygon or Riolu. Sporting a typing unique to itself in Little Cup, this poisonous toad's stats and movepool are some of the most balanced in the game, which makes it a mystery whether it's running a physical, special, or mixed set, while excelling at all of them. Croagunk finds itself as Pokemon of the Week this week!

Croagunk
Poison- / Fighting-type
48 HP / 61 Atk / 40 Def / 61 SAtk / 40 SDef / 50 Spe
Abilities: Anticipation / Dry Skin / Poison Touch

Croagunk has plenty of boosting moves, but a more defensive set based around its excellent defensive typing seems to be the most popular in the metagame currently. Can a boosting set work, or will Croagunk's excellent defensive utility prove to be better than any offensive set? As always, let's try this week to find what works and what doesn't with Croagunk!

Remember that anyone who reaches the top 3 with a fresh alt and discusses what made them succeed will be that much closer to the Community Contributor badge!

JacobNinja · Nov 13th, 2012, 2:41:18 PM

Hmm... Croagunk looks interesting. I might try a very bulky set to replace foongus as my fighting resist. It definitely has a lot of options, as it is one of those dpp pokemon that have mixed stats and movepools, like infernape. Also, why not hide the previous two pokemon into the op, and edit croagunk into the op?

Phazon00 · Nov 13th, 2012, 3:39:02 PM

Alright, gonna try this challenge too. I WILL DO THIS SOMEDAY.

Superpowerdude · Nov 13th, 2012, 4:37:36 PM

Croagunk is such an amazing Little Cup pokemon!(I know i have said that about all the PotW but come on there all good!) Its ability to be defensive while offensive at the same time is great and this makes Croagunk an easy fit for bulky offense teams given its amazing priority moves and good typing. Vaccum Wave, Fake Out and Sucker Punch are awesome, and it lets Croagunk beat down Shell Smashers and Scraggy while still remaining an offensive threat to your opponents team. Seriously you know a pokemon is good when another pokemon has to change his coverage almost exclusively for it (think Zen Headbutt Scraggy). However it seems to me that the bulky set is the only Croagunk set people see. People forget that Croagunk has both Bulk Up and Nasty Plot, and unlike Riolu, Croagunk actually has the bulk to pull them off. The coverage options for these two boosting sets are also good, as the Bulk Up set can run Drain Punch for recovery, Ice Punch and can keep the deadly priority that is Sucker Punch. The Nasty Plot set can use Shadow Ball and Vacuum Wave which iirc has unresisted coverage in Little Cup, Vacuum Waves priority is also good on this set.

Although i dont recomend using rain in Little Cup because it is absolutely terrible seriously look at this embarrassing team i made http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3463735. Before i go on about Croagunk in fairness to me this was my second post and first competitive team although it wasnt really that competitive and a lot has changed some 500+ posts later! Anyway as i was saying although i dont reccomend it if you are going to use rain in Little Cup Life Orb Croagunk is quite cool because with Dry Skin essentially canceling out Life Orb recoil Croagunk can abuse super powerful priority which is nice.

Unfortunatly i have no acces to pokemon showdown atm so i wont be able to participate in the ladder challenge however do excpect that i am going to make some good posts in the PotW and get invloved in discussion!

**iss** · Nov 13th, 2012, 7:48:54 PM

One aspect of Croagunk that is often ignored is its usefulness as a special wall. Dry Skin and creative EVing allows it to wall Staryu and Chinchou fairly effectively, and Drain Punch will 2-3HKO both. With Shadow Ball and Sucker Punch, it can also become a fairly good Misdreavus check, as even at +2 Misdreavus is unable to OHKO a properly EV'd Croagunk.

The main problem with Croagunk right now is that it just isn't bulky enough to justify its abysmal damage output. Croagunk is weak compared to something like Scraggy or Timburr, and doesn't have the utility that Mienfoo brings. Sure, it can work as a special wall, but Chinchou or Porygon work just as well or better. As a revenge killer, its Fake Out and Sucker Punch are weak compared to others, and something like a Murkrow Sucker Punch would do far more damage. Since Scraggy isn't as common anymore, it's really hard to justify using Croagunk over Mienfoo or Timburr.

Phazon00 · Nov 13th, 2012, 7:57:19 PM

Undefeated thus far!

Phazon00 · Nov 13th, 2012, 9:32:01 PM

Beat the challenge!

Oh wait, proof, forgot about this:

...

Nov 6th, 2012, 1:01:11 PM	#26
Nanoswine Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 574	Porygon :> Trace is an incredible ability that allows Porygon to check a huge amount of major threats. Combine that with Porygon's beast defenses (it can tank Brave Birds all day) and you have the greatest utility counter in all of LC. But we already know that. What most people don't focus on is Porygon's stellar Special Attack. It is as high as Missy's, but Porygon has STAB and coverage moves with higher BP than Missy, which allows it to run pretty good offensive sets. With Agility and LO Porygon can serve as a solid late-game cleaner, and with a Scarf it becomes the second best Double Rush counter in the game thanks to Trace, and can also Trick it's Scarf onto Lileep or Hippopotas after it has taken care of Drilbur/Sandshrew. Porygon is a very, very versatile Pokemon that is unfortunately viewed as a one-trick pony by a lot of players, so I'm really glad it was chosen for this PotW. __________________ Twas bryllyg, and ye slythy toves Did gyre and gymble in ye wabe: All mimsy were ye borogoves; And ye mome raths outgrabe.

Nov 6th, 2012, 1:07:44 PM	#27
JacobNinja Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 171	I like this pokemon of the week because my team already has a pory => __________________ this world is not real WAKE UP

Nov 6th, 2012, 1:52:24 PM	#29
Chieliee Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,483	porygon can literally function in a million different ways scarf, defensive, offensive etc etc i think scarf's my favorite, best fucking revenge killer in the game bye drilbur sandshrew misdreavus and many more __________________ nyuu~ This is the world we live in And these are the hands we're given Use them and lets start trying To make it a place worth living in.

Nov 6th, 2012, 2:29:44 PM	#31
Hawkstar Are you hanging by a thread or swinging from the rope? Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 654 Western Pennsylvania	Ah, that it is. I fixed it! Thanks for pointing that out. Too bad though, it is probably the best user of Analytic in any tier since its bulk and power in the Little Cup metagame, along with its low Speed, are unmatched by anything else with the ability. __________________ Art thread! [22:11] Helias: FUCK YOU HAWKSTAR THAT'S NOT MY NAME

Nov 7th, 2012, 6:41:24 AM	#33
spuds4ever Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 665 UK	Porygon's a great mon that works as others have mentioned as a great utility check to several of the metagame's most dangerous threats, including misdreavus, chinchou, and murkrow. Porygon fits bulky offense very nicely as it has a great list of options on how it can support its team other than checking a lot of threats like going offensive with a choice scarf or spreading paralysis. A really solid mon in my view. I'll be giving it a run under the alt: Duck time __________________ A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word 'darkness' on the walls of his cell. ~C.S. Lewis

Nov 6th, 2012, 1:20:43 PM	#28
Corkscrew Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 685 England	The great thing about Porygon is that it can fit into almost any style of team, Offense, Balance, Stall etc... It can create a great defensive backbone on balance teams if it is partnered with something that can take on Fighters, Shelmet, Koffing etc... It can pair well with a tonne of pokemon. Trace allows it to take on loads of things whether they're offensive or defensive like Murkrow, Chinchou, Natu etc. I'll probably try an offensive Porygon this week as I've never used one before so I'll be sure to post about that at another point.

Nov 7th, 2012, 3:23:17 PM	#34
JacobNinja Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 171	this is why I love pory <3 Cracking a sand lileep wide open with foongus's help in only 102 turns! http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc4033040 Also, good teamates are poison or ghost types to handle its crippling fighting weakness __________________ this world is not real WAKE UP Last edited by JacobNinja; Nov 7th, 2012 at 3:55:51 PM.

Nov 8th, 2012, 4:31:00 AM	#35
Superpowerdude #Noivern Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 945 Australia Mentor	Porygon is an amazing LC pokemon. Its versatility is what makes it such a great pokemon i think because it can run a great defensive set with good bulk and acces to Recover, Toxic, Thunderwave. Porygon can also run offensive sets like the choice scarf set and even a Life Orb attacker set with Recover due to Porygons good movepool. Not only does Porygon have great stats and movepool but he has two amazing abilities in Trace and Download. Trace especially is so good on Porygon. Seriously the potential to trace abilities like Flash Fire from Houdnour, Regenerator from Foongus/Mienfoo, Volt Absorb from Chinchou and Sand Rush from Drilbur are absolutely huge. This makes Porygon a great utitlity pokemom as well. Double Rush an increasing stragey revolving around Hippotas and Sandshrew and Drilbur are all stopped completely by Choice Scarf Porygon which is absolutely huge nowadays. Seriously the ability to almost be able to beat a whole style of play with one pokemon is utterly amazing. For any one confused this is the set i am talking about Porygon @ Choice Scarf \| Trace Timid \| 76 HP / 236 SpA / 196 Spe Ice Beam \| Tri Attack \| Shadow Ball \| Hidden Power [Grass] / Trick After tracing sand rush and with a Choice Scarf intact Porygon can outspeed Drilbur, Sandshrew and Hippotas and pick them all of with Ice Beam. I am also interasted to find out if any one has had succes using a Download Porygon. Maybe some sort of Agility+ Life Orb Download set would be quite cool. Thoughts? __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!!

Nov 8th, 2012, 6:36:40 AM	#36
Phazon00 Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 167 The Sky	Been battling with Porygon on an alt that never used it, and at 12-3 so far. Lesse what I can do. EDIT: Goin' strong at 26-4 HaxGon: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc4088786 __________________ DOUBLE RAINBOW Pokemon Showdown username is Serenity. Last edited by Phazon00; Nov 8th, 2012 at 5:49:55 PM.

Nov 8th, 2012, 7:00:07 AM	#37
mikel hear me roar Moderator Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 665 ~gocn~ Mentor	The issue with the Agility + 3 Attacks set is that Download is illegal with Tri Attack, which leaves it without a STAB attack, and relying on BoltBeam + filler. That Choice Scarf set is the set I'm having the most success with, as the standard defensive set just doesn't seem to pull its weight. On the other hand, the utility of a 21 Speed revenge killer, who can Trace Sand Rush, doubling its Speed (and making it immune to sand damage, which is always nice), can't be underestimated. It can revenge kill a good swathe of the metagame, and can also Trace and benefit from abilities such as Regenerator (revenge killing Mienfoo), Natural Cure (2HKOing Eviolite Staryu after Stealth Rock), and Volt Absorb (letting it switch in for free on Chinchou given prediction). My favourite move on the Choice Scarf set is almost certainly Trick, as it can really mess up balanced teams. Lileep is a common switch-in to Porygon, as with its high Special Defense and HP, it easily walls the standard defensive set and can set up Stealth Rock against it. With Trick, you can cripple Lileep for the game, as it can't stand not being able to switch moves. Now, it is definitely not enough just to have Choice Scarf Porygon to beat sand teams, I'm finding, as a good player will have something like Munchlax which giggles at anything Porygon throws at it, and deals 37.5 - 45.83% with Pursuit or 66.66 - 79.16% with Return. This starts to rack up, as Munchlax is absolutely a hard counter. Using a Will-O-Wisp Nasty Plot Misdreavus works out excellently in partnership with Porygon, as once burned, Munchlax is doing a mere 18.18 - 22.72% to Misdreavus and 33.33 - 37.5% to Porygon with Return. Alternatively, as Misdreavus doesn't really beat Munchlax in itself (although it does check all Fighting-types in the meta well except for Timburr), a bulky Fighting-type such as Timburr or Croagunk is handy to deal with Munchlax, Chinchou, and Magnemite, who can take Ice Beam with impunity (the latter less so) and retaliate with STAB Drain Punch or, in the case of Timburr, set up with Bulk Up, which typically means it can beat both Drilbur and Sandshrew. Just my thoughts on Scarf Porygon. I don't claim to be an expert in Little Cup, but these are a couple of things I've found. __________________ pokemon showdown \| contributions and corrections \| little cup \| pm/vm for a gp check [2013-02-13T17:59:26.637Z] (lobby) Blue Kirby was banned by Joim. (Smog Nominee Award Joim invites you to kindly take a time off of his website, banned user: BlueKirby) [3:33:40 PM] <~bmelts> inasmuch as this is the crux of the aforementioned set

Nov 8th, 2012, 7:40:12 AM	#38
JacobNinja Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 171	Actually somebody on iirc pointed out porygon got round, which is a special normal attack with 60 bp __________________ this world is not real WAKE UP

Nov 8th, 2012, 12:03:09 PM	#40
JacobNinja Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 171	I'm not sure, I use trace, but I felt it should be mentioned. __________________ this world is not real WAKE UP

Nov 9th, 2012, 9:36:05 PM	#41
JacobNinja Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 171	Going to nominate magnemite for potw 3, even though it doesn't work by nominations. Magnemite hits 14 speed neutrally, so he can go modest and still outspeed diglett/voltorb/elekid holding a scarf. He can also go bulky with eviolite to back up his obscene base 70 defense, which along with his steel typing makes him a hard to break wall. Unlike many other steels, magnemite has plenty of power, hitting 20 spa modestly and running the strongest electric moves in little cup, with STAB tbolt or thunder, along with volt switch. He can also trap steels with hpfire. His excellent defensive typing allowing him to work incredibly with fighting types, with a 4x resist and godly base defence to sponge up brave birds. He has 3 great abilities in sturdy, which can let him switch into a drain punch in a pinch, magnet pull, which can trap steels, and his dream world ability analytic. If you can sacrifice volt switch, magnemite can go incredibly bulky and powerful with eviolite and analytic, giving him an effective life orb boost along with +1 def/specdef. tl;dr sorry for the wall of text, magnemite for potw3 __________________ this world is not real WAKE UP

Nov 10th, 2012, 10:36:48 PM	#42
iss report this bug Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,023 sirndpt <3	Realized that I haven't played any games on iss since the reset. I guess it is a clean alt anyways, even though it really isn't an alt? I used this team, as it was the only team I had lying around that had Porygon. Defensive Porygon is basically RestTalk Chinchou. There are a few minor differences: Porygon is a better Misdreavus check, Chinchou is a better Chinchou and MixKrow check, but they play pretty much the same. Porygon, however, has an easier time walling random threats, such as Archen, post-Gem Drifloon, and others, as Recover gives it much more reliable recovery and prevents Sleep Talk hax from screwing you over. Due to Recover only healing 50% it's pretty important to keep Porygon at high health, as otherwise it just stops being a check to virtually everything and instead just dies on the switch-in. Thunder Wave is absolutely essential to Porygon's success: by outspeeding the foe, Porygon can just stall for full paralysis with Recover, which doesn't take very long. Thunder Wave also cripples Life Orb/Choice Scarf Mienfoo, and is a pretty big hinderance to standard defensive/utility Mienfoo anyways. In general, as long as it has more than 75% of its health, defensive Porygon can wall nearly anything that doesn't have a STAB Fighting-type attack. On the topic of offensive Porygon: I played a few games on a different account with Choice Scarf Porygon and Trick Room Porygon. Choice Scarf Porygon is pretty much the best counter to sand teams outside of Snover, and Snover brings its own drawbacks with hail and a Stealth Rock weakness. However, versus non-sand teams, it's a really mediocre Scarfer and only manages to save some utility through Trace. It's viable, but it really only should be used on teams with a big sand weakness that can't use Snover. Trick Room Download Porygon is interesting, but even at +1 Attack Return isn't killing much. It was pretty good in Gen 4, but Eviolite just makes everything too tanky :( On teammates: a Ghost-type is pretty essential. Something like Misdreavus or Frillish that can switch into opposing Mienfoo is even better. I used Drifloon, which is pretty risky due to Stone Edge, but it can OHKO every major Fighting-type, which is nice. A Scraggy counter is also necessary: Thunder Wave helps out a bit, but Shed Skin can just destroy you if you're unlucky. Defensive Mienfoo is the most common counter, but Croagunk, Timburr, and a few others work as well. A Rapid Spinner is nice but not neccessary; Stealth Rock isn't that bad, but a few layers of Spikes can really hinder Porygon's walling capability, and Toxic Spikes is a death sentence. Heal Bell is nice too; utility Chinchou is too similar to Porygon to really use, so utility Misdreavus is probably the best choice. Porygon can't wall Archen or Drifloon if it switches in on a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics, so having something to tank that is pretty necessary (I didn't have a good wall for either, and had a lot of problems against them as a result). Porygon is really interesting, but it's really pigeonholed into either a defensive set or a Choice Scarf set as a result of Eviolite. Offensive sets (Agility/Trick Room) just don't have enough power to sweep in this metagame (Agility Chinchou > Agility Porygon in most cases anyways). __________________ "Mienfoo is a shitty Pokemon." - blarajan ~CHINCHOUS~

Nov 10th, 2012, 10:56:33 PM	#43
JacobNinja Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 171	If we're posting our peaks now, http://puu.sh/1oJ5T. I used my current team which I may end up doing an rmt on, which happened to already feature porygon. I ran standard twave/recover/tri attack/shadow ball porygon but with a modest nature, giving it a bit more power over other porygons. It is really good at sponging hits like brave bird or dark pulse, and if it traces a prankster it turns into a monster, spreading status and priority shuffling. __________________ this world is not real WAKE UP

Nov 13th, 2012, 2:03:05 PM	#44
Hawkstar Are you hanging by a thread or swinging from the rope? Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 654 Western Pennsylvania	Congrats to iss and JacobNinja for reaching the requirements this round with Porygon! Unfortunately, we didn't have as many new discoveries as we did with Riolu, but we can't fault Porygon for being an excellent defensive Pokemon. This week, our Pokemon of the Week is a bit more rare than Porygon or Riolu. Sporting a typing unique to itself in Little Cup, this poisonous toad's stats and movepool are some of the most balanced in the game, which makes it a mystery whether it's running a physical, special, or mixed set, while excelling at all of them. Croagunk finds itself as Pokemon of the Week this week! Croagunk Poison- / Fighting-type 48 HP / 61 Atk / 40 Def / 61 SAtk / 40 SDef / 50 Spe Abilities: Anticipation / Dry Skin / Poison Touch Croagunk has plenty of boosting moves, but a more defensive set based around its excellent defensive typing seems to be the most popular in the metagame currently. Can a boosting set work, or will Croagunk's excellent defensive utility prove to be better than any offensive set? As always, let's try this week to find what works and what doesn't with Croagunk! Remember that anyone who reaches the top 3 with a fresh alt and discusses what made them succeed will be that much closer to the Community Contributor badge! __________________ Art thread! [22:11] Helias: FUCK YOU HAWKSTAR THAT'S NOT MY NAME

Nov 13th, 2012, 2:41:18 PM	#45
JacobNinja Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 171	Hmm... Croagunk looks interesting. I might try a very bulky set to replace foongus as my fighting resist. It definitely has a lot of options, as it is one of those dpp pokemon that have mixed stats and movepools, like infernape. Also, why not hide the previous two pokemon into the op, and edit croagunk into the op? __________________ this world is not real WAKE UP

Nov 13th, 2012, 3:39:02 PM	#46
Phazon00 Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 167 The Sky	Alright, gonna try this challenge too. I WILL DO THIS SOMEDAY. __________________ DOUBLE RAINBOW Pokemon Showdown username is Serenity.

Nov 13th, 2012, 4:37:36 PM	#47
Superpowerdude #Noivern Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 945 Australia Mentor	Croagunk is such an amazing Little Cup pokemon!(I know i have said that about all the PotW but come on there all good!) Its ability to be defensive while offensive at the same time is great and this makes Croagunk an easy fit for bulky offense teams given its amazing priority moves and good typing. Vaccum Wave, Fake Out and Sucker Punch are awesome, and it lets Croagunk beat down Shell Smashers and Scraggy while still remaining an offensive threat to your opponents team. Seriously you know a pokemon is good when another pokemon has to change his coverage almost exclusively for it (think Zen Headbutt Scraggy). However it seems to me that the bulky set is the only Croagunk set people see. People forget that Croagunk has both Bulk Up and Nasty Plot, and unlike Riolu, Croagunk actually has the bulk to pull them off. The coverage options for these two boosting sets are also good, as the Bulk Up set can run Drain Punch for recovery, Ice Punch and can keep the deadly priority that is Sucker Punch. The Nasty Plot set can use Shadow Ball and Vacuum Wave which iirc has unresisted coverage in Little Cup, Vacuum Waves priority is also good on this set. Although i dont recomend using rain in Little Cup because it is absolutely terrible seriously look at this embarrassing team i made http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3463735. Before i go on about Croagunk in fairness to me this was my second post and first competitive team although it wasnt really that competitive and a lot has changed some 500+ posts later! Anyway as i was saying although i dont reccomend it if you are going to use rain in Little Cup Life Orb Croagunk is quite cool because with Dry Skin essentially canceling out Life Orb recoil Croagunk can abuse super powerful priority which is nice. Unfortunatly i have no acces to pokemon showdown atm so i wont be able to participate in the ladder challenge however do excpect that i am going to make some good posts in the PotW and get invloved in discussion! __________________ #ratemyteam \| Smog Work\| Rater Of the Week \| RMT \| Dogbirds Join #dogbirds on irc!!!

Nov 13th, 2012, 7:48:54 PM	#48
iss report this bug Moderator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,023 sirndpt <3	One aspect of Croagunk that is often ignored is its usefulness as a special wall. Dry Skin and creative EVing allows it to wall Staryu and Chinchou fairly effectively, and Drain Punch will 2-3HKO both. With Shadow Ball and Sucker Punch, it can also become a fairly good Misdreavus check, as even at +2 Misdreavus is unable to OHKO a properly EV'd Croagunk. The main problem with Croagunk right now is that it just isn't bulky enough to justify its abysmal damage output. Croagunk is weak compared to something like Scraggy or Timburr, and doesn't have the utility that Mienfoo brings. Sure, it can work as a special wall, but Chinchou or Porygon work just as well or better. As a revenge killer, its Fake Out and Sucker Punch are weak compared to others, and something like a Murkrow Sucker Punch would do far more damage. Since Scraggy isn't as common anymore, it's really hard to justify using Croagunk over Mienfoo or Timburr. __________________ "Mienfoo is a shitty Pokemon." - blarajan ~CHINCHOUS~

Nov 13th, 2012, 7:57:19 PM	#49
Phazon00 Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 167 The Sky	Undefeated thus far! __________________ DOUBLE RAINBOW Pokemon Showdown username is Serenity.

Nov 13th, 2012, 9:32:01 PM	#50
Phazon00 Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 167 The Sky	Beat the challenge! Oh wait, proof, forgot about this: ... StopSucking joined. 'Lil Serenity joined. Format: LC Rated battle Rule: Evasion Moves Clause Rule: Sleep Clause Rule: Species Clause Rule: OHKO Clause Rule: Moody Clause Rule: Evasion Clause StopSucking's team: Hippopotas / Drilbur / Lileep / Mienfoo / Misdreavus / Murkrow 'Lil Serenity's team: Croagunk / Scraggy / Misdreavus / Porygon / Hippopotas / Drilbur Battle between StopSucking and 'Lil Serenity started! StopSucking sent out Hippopotas! 'Lil Serenity sent out Porygon! The foe's Porygon's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm! The foe's Porygon traced Hippopotas's Sand Stream! Turn 1 'Lil Serenity called Porygon back! 'Lil Serenity sent out Scraggy! StopSucking called Hippopotas back! StopSucking sent out Lileep! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Scraggy is buffeted by the sandstorm! Turn 2 StopSucking called Lileep back! StopSucking sent out Mienfoo! The foe's Scraggy used Dragon Dance! The foe's Scraggy's Attack rose! The foe's Scraggy's Speed rose! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Scraggy is buffeted by the sandstorm! Mienfoo is buffeted by the sandstorm! Turn 3 Mienfoo used Fake Out! The foe's Scraggy lost 14% of its health! The foe's Scraggy flinched! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Scraggy is buffeted by the sandstorm! Mienfoo is buffeted by the sandstorm! Turn 4 The foe's Scraggy used Zen Headbutt! A critical hit! It's super effective! Mienfoo lost 90% of its health! Mienfoo fainted! The foe's Scraggy's Moxie raised its Attack! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Scraggy is buffeted by the sandstorm! StopSucking sent out Murkrow! Turn 5 Murkrow used Brave Bird! It's super effective! The foe's Scraggy lost 68% of its health! Murkrow is damaged by recoil! The foe's Scraggy fainted! The sandstorm rages. Murkrow is buffeted by the sandstorm! 'Lil Serenity sent out Hippopotas! Turn 6 StopSucking called Murkrow back! StopSucking sent out Lileep! The foe's Hippopotas used Toxic! Lileep was badly poisoned! The sandstorm rages. Lileep was hurt by poison! Turn 7 The foe's Hippopotas used Earthquake! Lileep lost 27% of its health! Lileep used Toxic! The foe's Hippopotas was badly poisoned! The sandstorm rages. Lileep was hurt by poison! The foe's Hippopotas was hurt by poison! Turn 8 The foe's Hippopotas used Stealth Rock! Pointed stones float in the air around your team! Lileep used Giga Drain! It's super effective! The foe's Hippopotas lost 56% of its health! The foe's Hippopotas had its energy drained! The sandstorm rages. Lileep was hurt by poison! The foe's Hippopotas was hurt by poison! Turn 9 'Lil Serenity called Hippopotas back! 'Lil Serenity sent out Croagunk! Lileep used Giga Drain! It's not very effective... The foe's Croagunk lost 13% of its health! The foe's Croagunk had its energy drained! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Croagunk is buffeted by the sandstorm! Lileep was hurt by poison! Turn 10 StopSucking called Lileep back! StopSucking sent out Hippopotas! Pointed stones dug into Hippopotas! The foe's Croagunk used Shadow Ball! Hippopotas lost 27% of its health! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Croagunk is buffeted by the sandstorm! Turn 11 'Lil Serenity called Croagunk back! 'Lil Serenity sent out Misdreavus! Hippopotas used Stealth Rock! Pointed stones float in the air around the foe's team! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Misdreavus is buffeted by the sandstorm! Turn 12 The foe's Misdreavus used Nasty Plot! The foe's Misdreavus's Special Attack sharply rose! Hippopotas used Toxic! The foe's Misdreavus was badly poisoned! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Misdreavus is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Misdreavus was hurt by poison! Turn 13 StopSucking called Hippopotas back! StopSucking sent out Lileep! Pointed stones dug into Lileep! The foe's Misdreavus used Shadow Ball! Lileep lost 35% of its health! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Misdreavus is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Misdreavus was hurt by poison! Lileep was hurt by poison! Turn 14 The foe's Misdreavus used Shadow Ball! Lileep lost 19% of its health! Lileep fainted! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Misdreavus is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Misdreavus was hurt by poison! StopSucking sent out Drilbur! Pointed stones dug into Drilbur! Turn 15 Drilbur used Shadow Claw! It's super effective! The foe's Misdreavus lost 55% of its health! The foe's Misdreavus fainted! The sandstorm rages. 'Lil Serenity sent out Porygon! Pointed stones dug into the foe's Porygon! The foe's Porygon traced Drilbur's Sand Rush! Turn 16 The foe's Porygon used Ice Beam! It's super effective! Drilbur lost 73% of its health! Drilbur used Earthquake! The foe's Porygon lost 67% of its health! The sandstorm rages. Turn 17 The foe's Porygon used Ice Beam! It's super effective! Drilbur lost 23% of its health! Drilbur fainted! The sandstorm rages. StopSucking sent out Misdreavus! Pointed stones dug into Misdreavus! Turn 18 'Lil Serenity called Porygon back! 'Lil Serenity sent out Croagunk! Pointed stones dug into the foe's Croagunk! Misdreavus used Nasty Plot! Misdreavus's Special Attack sharply rose! The sandstorm rages. Misdreavus is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Croagunk is buffeted by the sandstorm! Turn 19 Misdreavus used Thunderbolt! The foe's Croagunk lost 63% of its health! The foe's Croagunk used Shadow Ball! It's super effective! Misdreavus lost 45% of its health! The sandstorm rages. Misdreavus is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Croagunk is buffeted by the sandstorm! Turn 20 Misdreavus used Hidden Power! It's not very effective... The foe's Croagunk lost 4% of its health! The foe's Croagunk fainted! The sandstorm rages. Misdreavus is buffeted by the sandstorm! 'Lil Serenity sent out Porygon! Pointed stones dug into the foe's Porygon! The foe's Porygon traced Misdreavus's Levitate! Turn 21 StopSucking called Misdreavus back! StopSucking sent out Hippopotas! Pointed stones dug into Hippopotas! The foe's Porygon used Ice Beam! It's super effective! Hippopotas lost 62% of its health! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Porygon is buffeted by the sandstorm! Turn 22 The foe's Porygon used Ice Beam! It's super effective! Hippopotas lost 4% of its health! Hippopotas fainted! The sandstorm rages. The foe's Porygon is buffeted by the sandstorm! The foe's Porygon fainted! StopSucking sent out Murkrow! Pointed stones dug into Murkrow! 'Lil Serenity sent out Drilbur! Pointed stones dug into the foe's Drilbur! Turn 23 Murkrow used Sucker Punch! The foe's Drilbur lost 78% of its health! The foe's Drilbur used Rock Slide! It's super effective! Murkrow lost 50% of its health! The foe's Drilbur lost some of its HP! Murkrow fainted! The sandstorm rages. StopSucking sent out Misdreavus! Pointed stones dug into Misdreavus! Turn 24 The foe's Drilbur used Shadow Claw! It's super effective! Misdreavus lost 23% of its health! The foe's Drilbur lost some of its HP! Misdreavus fainted! The foe's Drilbur fainted! 'Lil Serenity won the battle! Ladder updating... StopSucking's rating: 1779 → 1795 (+16 for losing) 'Lil Serenity's rating: 1921 → 1927 (+6 for winning) StopSucking left. __________________ DOUBLE RAINBOW Pokemon Showdown username is Serenity.