OU Rain Team

lordpokemanz · Nov 10th, 2012, 6:13:20 PM

Hi Smogon! I'm new to the forums here, but have been playing Pokemon Online for about a year now. This team peaked at 1293 on PO. Most sets are conventional, but there's a slight twist. Enjoy!

Politoed (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Focus Blast

Politoed is a staple of rain teams, because it sets up rain. I found Bulkytoed did not have enough power behind it to do anything, and couldn't stop Ninetales or Tyranitar. Specs with a Modest nature can do boatloads to Ninetales, and with 252 hp it can tank Solarbeams and hit back hard. I chose focus blast over surf to demolish Ferrothorns that switch in (provided that focus miss actually hits).

Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Tentacruel is the hazard setter with toxic spikes, and a check for major threats such as Terrakion and Scizor. It also serves as a spinner. Ice Beam was chosen over protect for personal preference, but I'm open to suggestions to change this. It also absorbs toxic spikes as a bonus, not that my team really needs it.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Thunder
- Water Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Substitute

SubCM Jirachi is amazing at setting up and sweeping. I chose SDef EVs over Speed EVs to tank hits. Thunder's 60% paralysis chance in Rain is incredibly useful and annoying to enemies, and Water Pulse gains power from the rain and has 40% confusion rate (but is still pitifully weak). This is walled by Gastrodon and Quagsire though, but HP Grass from Politoed and Grass Knot from Thundurus-T do a decent amount to them. Normally this little guy pulls its own weight easily, crippling and killing with parafusion.

Thundurus (Thundurus-T) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]

It looks like a conventional scarf set, huh? I found that the coverage from dual electric STABS, focus blast, and HP ice didn't cut it. Volt switch still does a decent chunk of damage, but with both Focus Blast and Grass Knot, coverage is greatly improved. It greatly appreciates Tentacruel's spinning to remove rocks. Volt Absorb is really useful because most of my team has a x2 weakness to electric moves. This guy forms a volt-turn core with Scizor.

Rotom-W @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 236 SAtk / 20 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Pain Split
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder

This catches opponents off guard. People don't expect a subbing Rotom backed by Thunder and Hydro pump, dual STABS that hurt a bunch. This is also walled by Gastrodon, but I'm relying on Thundurus-T and Politoed to take care of them. I forgot why I put the EVs in Special Defense, but they seem to work fine. This is my way of preventing Mamoswine from EQing and Ice Sharding everything on my team.

Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Scizor's 4x weakness to fire is reduced by the rain, and the CB set works admirably as a revenge killer, sweeper, and way of racking up general damage. I chose this over Genesect because of my team's lack of priority moves. This also resists Dragon moves, which is really useful for switching in and killing them back.

Thoughts

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Importable

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Thanks for reading! I'd greatly appreciate advice on how to improve this team.

Asek · Nov 11th, 2012, 7:54:17 AM

Hi

Cool team. First off though, the lack of Stealth rock is very concerning, it makes threats such as Dragonite, Sub + DD Gyarados and Volcarona very hard for this team to take on, especially the dragonite. Another threatening pokemon is Rock Polish Genesect, as it can set up on locked in Scizor or Politoed locked into the wrong move, and from there sweep your team cleanly.

OK, first off we need to fit Stealth Rock somewhere on this team. There is a pokemon that can fit naturally onto rain teams that can supply you with both Stealth Rock AND Spikes as well as giving you many resistances to fall back on with great defenses to match. I thought using Ferrothorn > Jirachi could solve these problems quite neatly, as not only does he provide you with all the aforementioned things, but with Thunder Wave you can cripple set up sweepers that can usually set up on it, and with Power Whip you can dent Hippowdon and Tyranitar heavily, both of which are pokemon your team really want out of the way. You don't lose much with Jirachi anyway, you still retain a steel who can take dragon spam attacks through out the match, while gaining multiple forms of support with a pokemon that forms a good defensive core with Tentacruel, setting up and spinning away hazards. Thunder wave also lets you cripple RP Gene if the rain is up as flamethrower doesn't KO IIRC and a lot of RP gene don't use flamethrower anyway so don't worry about it now

Now with Jirachi gone, the extreme need to get Gastrodon and quagsire out of the way is no longer there, so you can afford to drop HP [GRASS] on politoed and you still have Grass Knot on Thundurus to lure in and dispatch of them anyway. I would instead use Perish song > HP [GRASS] here, as it stops any set up sweepers that manage to set up that can't KO Politoed, it enforced the win to you if the opponent is down to their last pokemon and it can effectively Pseudo PHaze forcing the opponent out and causing them to take more hazard damage.

Finally use Protect > Ice Beam on Tentacruel. With Hidden Power [ICE] on landorus you have adequate means to control the things that Ice Beam was hitting in OU. Meanwhile, Protect lets you scout to see what the opponent is doing while also forcing them to take more poison/burn damage, which they won't appreciate at all. Protect also grants you a turn of guaranteed recovery, which helps out if you need to take on a threat that you need a high amount of health for.

GL with the team

Ferrothorn

PDC · Nov 11th, 2012, 12:02:39 PM

Cool team you got here! But like Asek mentioned the lack of Stealth Rock really puts a hole in it.

First off I can seem that you have a little weakness to Volcarona, especially Hurricane variants. On top of the fact that you also are pretty weak to Rotom-W I suggest making the change to Toxic over Toxic Spikes on Tentacruel. for the most part Toxic Spikes are ineffective in this metagame and Toxic does a much better job at checking threats like Rotom-W and Volcarona with immediate Poison. Rotom-W for one avoids Toxic Spikes but gets crippled by Toxic, so you can always cripple it for the rest of the game. It does a lot more than just poisoning those 2 though, it has many outside uses as well. I would also suggest changing up to Perish Song in Politoed instead of HP Grass like Asek also suggested. It is great for killing last minute Pokemon with confidence and also allows you to save yourself in many situations. I also suggest changing up Rotom-W's item to Leftovers instead of Life Orb. The bulk is greatly appreciated and Life Orb seriously harms his lonegetivity.

For a much larger scale change I suggest revamping Jirachi's set a bit to give you Stealth Rock. I would rather see a Specially Defensive Version in that teams lot instead of your current SubCM version. Changing it up to a moveset of 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def Sassy Iron Head / Thunder / Wish / Stealth Rock @ Leftovers gives you Stealth Rock and still a reliable counter to Tornadus - T. Jirachi also can provide Wish support more efficiently with this set, allowing it to keep teammates like Thundurus - T and Politoed alive for a longer time.

Good luck!

lordpokemanz · Nov 12th, 2012, 2:31:58 AM

Thanks for the input Asek and PDC!

I'll try out Ferro and SpDef Jirachi and see which works better with this team. I felt that SubCM Jirachi really easily setup once its counters were gone though, and always net me a decent number of kills. Testing shall commence on all 3!

I'll also test perish song in the final slot for Toed.

Protect was something I didn't really think about on Cruel, and neither was toxic. That's a really interesting idea. Let's see how effective it is :D

Rotom @ Leftovers seems cool.

**Pocket** · Nov 12th, 2012, 3:32:47 AM

Interesting team, lordpokemanz! I never expected to come across Toxic Spikes + SubSplit Rotom-W anymore, so this was refreshing to read ;)

One of the most pressing issue I see for this team is its poor match-up against Sun teams with Dugtrio. It's not hard to wear down choiced Toed, and Dugtrio would pretty much ensure that the Sun would win the weather war. For a team so dependent on its weather, winning the weather war is crucial. Also, as you noted, Gastrodon and Blissey are problematic if you cannot manage to keep TSpikes up.

For such threats, I suggest Specs Gothitelle. Specs Gothitelle accomplishes a lot for this team, thanks to its ability to trap mons with Shadow Tag. First, it can trap and fatally cripple Ninetales with Specs Psyshock, which essentially OHKOs offensive Ninetales after SR (even if it doesn't, it wont be able to switch in again); defensive variants fail to 2HKO Goth with Flamethrower as Goth proceeds to O-2HKO. Secondly, it removes Tentacruel / Blissey / Gastrodon / Jellicent for this team. By removing Tentacruel, Toxic Spikes will stay on the field to wreck Blissey and Gastrodon. Alternatively, you can trap and kill Gastrodon with Energy Ball, Jellicent with Thunderbolt, and Trick Specs on Blissey. Tricking Specs to Ferrothorn can also neuter it significantly.

Specs Gothitelle

That said I highly suggest to keep Toxic Spikes on Tentacruel. Now that you have Gothitelle to remove Rapid Spinners / Toxic Spikes absorber, Toxic Spikes would be far more effective in conjunction with SubSplit Rotom-W. You may however replace Protect for Toxic, which cripples certain mons that switches in to set-up on Tentacruel, as well as allowing Tentacruel to beat Jellicent without the help of Gothitelle.

Also, as Asek and PDC have pointed out, SR would help this team enormously, especially for winning the weather war against opposing Sun teams. I support PDC's specially-defensive SR Jirachi suggestion, which also provides a decent check to RP Genesect and Volcarona if it's raining. If you don't find yourself using Wish as much, due to the rather offensive pace of this team, feel free to replace it with Drain Punch or Hidden Power Ground so it's not complete set-up bait for Magnezone.

SR Jirachi

Dragons are still troublesome to this team if Jirachi goes down, though. A reliable Scarfer is needed. Scarf Latios does a better job than Scarf Thundurus-T, imo. Scarf Latios removes Dragons with ease; even Dragonite at +2 is revenged by Latios :D. Even more, Latios is a more reliable check to Thundurus-T than your original Thundurus-T, as it can tank HP Ice better. Latios also fares well against Sun teams as well, checking Venusuar.

Scarf Latios

To Sum Up:

Specs Gothitelle > CB Scizor
Keep Toxic Spikes on Tentacruel
Stealth Rock on Jirachi with a more mixed defensive spread; Drain Punch / HP Ground, too!
Scarf Latios > Scarf Thundurus-T

lordpokemanz · Nov 12th, 2012, 10:56:49 PM

I'm loving SpDef Jirachi! Ferro isn't working with my playstyle :/ sorry Asek. It feels like one of those mons that everybody says is amazing, but I can never get it to work.

EDIT: @pocket I've never seen usage of Gothielle, this sounds really interesting! I'll try it out, especially since Amoonguss takes an enormous poop on my team. Thanks!

Nov 10th, 2012, 6:13:20 PM	#1
lordpokemanz Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5	OU Rain Team Hi Smogon! I'm new to the forums here, but have been playing Pokemon Online for about a year now. This team peaked at 1293 on PO. Most sets are conventional, but there's a slight twist. Enjoy! Politoed (F) @ Choice Specs Trait: Drizzle EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam - Hidden Power [Grass] - Focus Blast Politoed is a staple of rain teams, because it sets up rain. I found Bulkytoed did not have enough power behind it to do anything, and couldn't stop Ninetales or Tyranitar. Specs with a Modest nature can do boatloads to Ninetales, and with 252 hp it can tank Solarbeams and hit back hard. I chose focus blast over surf to demolish Ferrothorns that switch in (provided that focus miss actually hits). Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge Trait: Rain Dish EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Toxic Spikes - Rapid Spin - Scald - Ice Beam Tentacruel is the hazard setter with toxic spikes, and a check for major threats such as Terrakion and Scizor. It also serves as a spinner. Ice Beam was chosen over protect for personal preference, but I'm open to suggestions to change this. It also absorbs toxic spikes as a bonus, not that my team really needs it. Jirachi @ Leftovers Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk) - Thunder - Water Pulse - Calm Mind - Substitute SubCM Jirachi is amazing at setting up and sweeping. I chose SDef EVs over Speed EVs to tank hits. Thunder's 60% paralysis chance in Rain is incredibly useful and annoying to enemies, and Water Pulse gains power from the rain and has 40% confusion rate (but is still pitifully weak). This is walled by Gastrodon and Quagsire though, but HP Grass from Politoed and Grass Knot from Thundurus-T do a decent amount to them. Normally this little guy pulls its own weight easily, crippling and killing with parafusion. Thundurus (Thundurus-T) (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Volt Absorb EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Volt Switch - Focus Blast - Grass Knot - Hidden Power [Ice] It looks like a conventional scarf set, huh? I found that the coverage from dual electric STABS, focus blast, and HP ice didn't cut it. Volt switch still does a decent chunk of damage, but with both Focus Blast and Grass Knot, coverage is greatly improved. It greatly appreciates Tentacruel's spinning to remove rocks. Volt Absorb is really useful because most of my team has a x2 weakness to electric moves. This guy forms a volt-turn core with Scizor. Rotom-W @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 236 SAtk / 20 SDef / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Substitute - Pain Split - Hydro Pump - Thunder This catches opponents off guard. People don't expect a subbing Rotom backed by Thunder and Hydro pump, dual STABS that hurt a bunch. This is also walled by Gastrodon, but I'm relying on Thundurus-T and Politoed to take care of them. I forgot why I put the EVs in Special Defense, but they seem to work fine. This is my way of preventing Mamoswine from EQing and Ice Sharding everything on my team. Scizor (F) @ Choice Band Trait: Technician EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - U-turn - Bullet Punch - Superpower - Pursuit Scizor's 4x weakness to fire is reduced by the rain, and the CB set works admirably as a revenge killer, sweeper, and way of racking up general damage. I chose this over Genesect because of my team's lack of priority moves. This also resists Dragon moves, which is really useful for switching in and killing them back. Thoughts ... This team cannot handle the pink blobs. With more than 1 dragon, opposing teams can demolish Scizor and Jirachi, and open opportunities for an easy sweep. I feel that a fighting type (maybe Keldeo?) could be used to tear special walls down, especially Blissey and Chansey, but don't know what to remove for it. I have lots of trouble dealing with subCM Latias too, it's just too fast for Scizor to handle. There's probably a lot more I'm missing on this mini threat-list, sorry! Importable ... Politoed (F) @ Choice Specs Trait: Drizzle EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam - Hidden Power [Grass] - Focus Blast Tentacruel (M) @ Black Sludge Trait: Rain Dish EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk) - Toxic Spikes - Rapid Spin - Scald - Ice Beam Jirachi @ Leftovers Trait: Serene Grace EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk) - Thunder - Water Pulse - Calm Mind - Substitute Thundurus (Thundurus-T) (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Volt Absorb EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Volt Switch - Focus Blast - Grass Knot - Hidden Power [Ice] Rotom-W @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 236 SAtk / 20 SDef / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Substitute - Pain Split - Hydro Pump - Thunder Scizor (F) @ Choice Band Trait: Technician EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - U-turn - Bullet Punch - Superpower - Pursuit Thanks for reading! I'd greatly appreciate advice on how to improve this team. Last edited by mostwanted; Nov 11th, 2012 at 1:56:51 AM. Reason: no need to put descriptions in the hide tags

Nov 11th, 2012, 7:54:17 AM	#2
Asek Just Waiting For a Mate Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 405 VM for an OU rate	Hi Cool team. First off though, the lack of Stealth rock is very concerning, it makes threats such as Dragonite, Sub + DD Gyarados and Volcarona very hard for this team to take on, especially the dragonite. Another threatening pokemon is Rock Polish Genesect, as it can set up on locked in Scizor or Politoed locked into the wrong move, and from there sweep your team cleanly. OK, first off we need to fit Stealth Rock somewhere on this team. There is a pokemon that can fit naturally onto rain teams that can supply you with both Stealth Rock AND Spikes as well as giving you many resistances to fall back on with great defenses to match. I thought using Ferrothorn > Jirachi could solve these problems quite neatly, as not only does he provide you with all the aforementioned things, but with Thunder Wave you can cripple set up sweepers that can usually set up on it, and with Power Whip you can dent Hippowdon and Tyranitar heavily, both of which are pokemon your team really want out of the way. You don't lose much with Jirachi anyway, you still retain a steel who can take dragon spam attacks through out the match, while gaining multiple forms of support with a pokemon that forms a good defensive core with Tentacruel, setting up and spinning away hazards. Thunder wave also lets you cripple RP Gene if the rain is up as flamethrower doesn't KO IIRC and a lot of RP gene don't use flamethrower anyway so don't worry about it now Now with Jirachi gone, the extreme need to get Gastrodon and quagsire out of the way is no longer there, so you can afford to drop HP [GRASS] on politoed and you still have Grass Knot on Thundurus to lure in and dispatch of them anyway. I would instead use Perish song > HP [GRASS] here, as it stops any set up sweepers that manage to set up that can't KO Politoed, it enforced the win to you if the opponent is down to their last pokemon and it can effectively Pseudo PHaze forcing the opponent out and causing them to take more hazard damage. Finally use Protect > Ice Beam on Tentacruel. With Hidden Power [ICE] on landorus you have adequate means to control the things that Ice Beam was hitting in OU. Meanwhile, Protect lets you scout to see what the opponent is doing while also forcing them to take more poison/burn damage, which they won't appreciate at all. Protect also grants you a turn of guaranteed recovery, which helps out if you need to take on a threat that you need a high amount of health for. GL with the team Ferrothorn Ferrothorn @ leftovers Nature: Relaxed (+Def -Spe) Trait: Iron Barbs EV's: 252HP/ 88Def/ 168SpD Spikes/ Stealth Rock/ Thunder Wave/ Power Whip __________________ Not good enough mate

Nov 11th, 2012, 12:02:39 PM	#3
PDC A coward dies a thousand deaths, a soldier dies but one Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 609	Cool team you got here! But like Asek mentioned the lack of Stealth Rock really puts a hole in it. First off I can seem that you have a little weakness to Volcarona, especially Hurricane variants. On top of the fact that you also are pretty weak to Rotom-W I suggest making the change to Toxic over Toxic Spikes on Tentacruel. for the most part Toxic Spikes are ineffective in this metagame and Toxic does a much better job at checking threats like Rotom-W and Volcarona with immediate Poison. Rotom-W for one avoids Toxic Spikes but gets crippled by Toxic, so you can always cripple it for the rest of the game. It does a lot more than just poisoning those 2 though, it has many outside uses as well. I would also suggest changing up to Perish Song in Politoed instead of HP Grass like Asek also suggested. It is great for killing last minute Pokemon with confidence and also allows you to save yourself in many situations. I also suggest changing up Rotom-W's item to Leftovers instead of Life Orb. The bulk is greatly appreciated and Life Orb seriously harms his lonegetivity. For a much larger scale change I suggest revamping Jirachi's set a bit to give you Stealth Rock. I would rather see a Specially Defensive Version in that teams lot instead of your current SubCM version. Changing it up to a moveset of 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def Sassy Iron Head / Thunder / Wish / Stealth Rock @ Leftovers gives you Stealth Rock and still a reliable counter to Tornadus - T. Jirachi also can provide Wish support more efficiently with this set, allowing it to keep teammates like Thundurus - T and Politoed alive for a longer time. Good luck! __________________ Leave me a visitor message if you want me to rate your team!

Nov 12th, 2012, 3:32:47 AM	#5
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,170 Bergenfield	Interesting team, lordpokemanz! I never expected to come across Toxic Spikes + SubSplit Rotom-W anymore, so this was refreshing to read ;) One of the most pressing issue I see for this team is its poor match-up against Sun teams with Dugtrio. It's not hard to wear down choiced Toed, and Dugtrio would pretty much ensure that the Sun would win the weather war. For a team so dependent on its weather, winning the weather war is crucial. Also, as you noted, Gastrodon and Blissey are problematic if you cannot manage to keep TSpikes up. For such threats, I suggest Specs Gothitelle. Specs Gothitelle accomplishes a lot for this team, thanks to its ability to trap mons with Shadow Tag. First, it can trap and fatally cripple Ninetales with Specs Psyshock, which essentially OHKOs offensive Ninetales after SR (even if it doesn't, it wont be able to switch in again); defensive variants fail to 2HKO Goth with Flamethrower as Goth proceeds to O-2HKO. Secondly, it removes Tentacruel / Blissey / Gastrodon / Jellicent for this team. By removing Tentacruel, Toxic Spikes will stay on the field to wreck Blissey and Gastrodon. Alternatively, you can trap and kill Gastrodon with Energy Ball, Jellicent with Thunderbolt, and Trick Specs on Blissey. Tricking Specs to Ferrothorn can also neuter it significantly. Specs Gothitelle Gothitelle @ Choice Specs \| Shadow Tag Modest \| 168 HP / 40 Def / 252 SpA / 48 Spe ~ Psyshock ~ Thunderbolt ~ Energy Ball / Hidden Power Ice ~ Trick Enough Speed to outrun min Spe Skarmory, and by extension Jellicent. Max SpA to hit hard and rest goes into bulk. It can actually check offensive mons like ScarfMence and Terrakion, thanks to the defensive investment. I'd suggest replacing Scizor with this mon. That said I highly suggest to keep Toxic Spikes on Tentacruel. Now that you have Gothitelle to remove Rapid Spinners / Toxic Spikes absorber, Toxic Spikes would be far more effective in conjunction with SubSplit Rotom-W. You may however replace Protect for Toxic, which cripples certain mons that switches in to set-up on Tentacruel, as well as allowing Tentacruel to beat Jellicent without the help of Gothitelle. Also, as Asek and PDC have pointed out, SR would help this team enormously, especially for winning the weather war against opposing Sun teams. I support PDC's specially-defensive SR Jirachi suggestion, which also provides a decent check to RP Genesect and Volcarona if it's raining. If you don't find yourself using Wish as much, due to the rather offensive pace of this team, feel free to replace it with Drain Punch or Hidden Power Ground so it's not complete set-up bait for Magnezone. SR Jirachi Jirachi @ Leftovers \| Serene Grace Careful \| 252 HP / 96 Def / 140 SpD / 20 Spe ~ Iron Head ~ Thunder ~ Stealth Rock ~ Drain Punch / Hidden Power Ground Notice the Def EVs; since I removed Scizor for Specs Gothitelle, I gave Jirachi enough Def to survive 2 CB Fusion Bolts from Kyurem-Black after Rocks. Of course weaker hits from +1 Outrage from Haxorus / Salamence are also absorbed comfortably. 20 Spe is enough to outpace Adamant Breloom / Modest Politoed / Timid Magnezone. You may use Wish on the last slot, but I rather not give Magnezone to shit all over Jirachi and then rest of your team. Jirachi earns health ++ through paraflinches, Drain Punch recovery, and judicial use of Jirachi. You've made this team work without Wish support, so I'm pretty sure it's not mandatory now, either. Dragons are still troublesome to this team if Jirachi goes down, though. A reliable Scarfer is needed. Scarf Latios does a better job than Scarf Thundurus-T, imo. Scarf Latios removes Dragons with ease; even Dragonite at +2 is revenged by Latios :D. Even more, Latios is a more reliable check to Thundurus-T than your original Thundurus-T, as it can tank HP Ice better. Latios also fares well against Sun teams as well, checking Venusuar. Scarf Latios Latios @ Choice Scarf \| Levitate Timid \| 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe ~ Draco Meteor ~ Surf ~ Thunder / Psyshock ~ Trick To Sum Up: Specs Gothitelle > CB Scizor Keep Toxic Spikes on Tentacruel Stealth Rock on Jirachi with a more mixed defensive spread; Drain Punch / HP Ground, too! Scarf Latios > Scarf Thundurus-T __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Nov 12th, 2012, 10:56:49 PM	#6
lordpokemanz Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5	I'm loving SpDef Jirachi! Ferro isn't working with my playstyle :/ sorry Asek. It feels like one of those mons that everybody says is amazing, but I can never get it to work. EDIT: @pocket I've never seen usage of Gothielle, this sounds really interesting! I'll try it out, especially since Amoonguss takes an enormous poop on my team. Thanks! Last edited by lordpokemanz; Nov 13th, 2012 at 12:21:13 AM. Reason: addressing @pocket's suggestions

Nov 12th, 2012, 2:31:58 AM	#4
lordpokemanz Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5	Thanks for the input Asek and PDC! I'll try out Ferro and SpDef Jirachi and see which works better with this team. I felt that SubCM Jirachi really easily setup once its counters were gone though, and always net me a decent number of kills. Testing shall commence on all 3! I'll also test perish song in the final slot for Toed. Protect was something I didn't really think about on Cruel, and neither was toxic. That's a really interesting idea. Let's see how effective it is :D Rotom @ Leftovers seems cool.