Research Group #9 - Marowak, Pinsir, Miltank, Regice

DTC · Nov 14th, 2012, 6:07:39 PM

Introduction:
NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Group aids in helping explore the tier. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.

Some rules:

Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize.
Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the four Pokemon we are "researching". You'll be able to vote on what Pokemon you want the next Research Group right before it starts (out of a ballot that is determined by me)

The four Pokemon that we will be looking into this Research Group are:

How useful are these Pokemon in NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #neverused/#pokemon as well!

The Research Week Challenge:

Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team

Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 2000 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1850 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1700 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team. Note: this is for Glicko2. You must also have a deviation of 70.

Users will be expected to post their experiences with the Pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encountered while trying to make the said Pokemon work.

If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over.

In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present.

Research Week Hall of Fame

Please include more substance in your posts than just "in" and what Pokemon you're using. What sets are you planning on using? What interests you about whatever Pokemon you're using? Remember: people who contribute a lot to Research Group will be listed on the hub page as an outstanding contributor for this Research Group.

**Raseri** · Nov 14th, 2012, 6:10:34 PM

For the hall of fame, is it ACRE or glicko2? Also is there a deviation requirement?

Regice is such a boss, ice moves are amazing right now - Rock Polish destroys teams!

ill be using regice

DTC · Nov 14th, 2012, 6:15:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Raseri

For the hall of fame, is it ACRE or glicko2? Also is there a deviation requirement?

Regice is such a boss, ice moves are amazing right now - Rock Polish destroys teams!

ill be using regice

Glicko2 and a deviation of 70 or lower.

vileman · Nov 14th, 2012, 6:36:54 PM

Well, ill be doing this just for fun and maybie, who knows, i can reach a high ladder ranking. Using the four of them.
edit: forgot to put the alt:vileresearch

EDIT: At the moment i have a record of 22 wins and 6 loses with an ACRE of 1702 and glicko2 shows 1812 ± 78. The team, as said, has the 4 research pokes, but also has the amoongus core, that helps a lot on wish support and to cover most of the fighting types. When i have time ill post the team in depth But as a summarry i have mootility, a special tank regice, sub+3 attacks amrowak and scarf mold breaker pinsir (has caught off guard sturdy users a lot, also some levitate users with EQ.)

EDIT 2: So, the team its the following, ill just give a brief analisis of every member, because to be honest im not very good at analising things and enlgish not being my first lenguage doesnt helps so i apologise if there are a lot of gramar, spelling etcetc errors:

...

EDIT3:

so yeah, got to bronze rank. I'll try to get to silver rank tho. (dont mind the ou matches, too lazy to change accounts lol)

~~Oiawesome~~ · Nov 14th, 2012, 6:44:25 PM

Ill be using RPRegi and MoxiePinsir and meybe the others if I have enough time.Expect this post to be updated when Im done testing.

Alt: BANMAGIKARP

~~A dude~~ · Nov 14th, 2012, 7:40:21 PM

Marowak: With a personal item in Thick Club that doubles his attack, it definitely should be feared. It is indeed a bit slow, but pairing it with a Trick Room user or a paralysis supporter can compensate for that. It hits really hard off the bat, and can wreck anything that fails to make it faint. A personal immunity to Thunder Wave and a resistance to Stealth Rock is really helpful for him. Although Marowak needs a bit of support to help him do his thing, he is an absolute menace that would be Ubers material with Speed Boost or Huge Power. I wish this guy got Head Smash and Rock Polish; he would be absolutely terrifying.

The best set is the Substitute + 3 Attacks set, as Marowak has problems with durability. The set is simple: Set up Substitute on something seemingly harmless, like a Choice-locked Zebstrika, and let Marowak go on rampage. As for partners, fixing that speed is the best way to support it (Paralysis supporters like Natu/Lickilicky, etc.). There is no denying its horrible speed and a tad shaky defensive stats, but this thing's power is sick - watch this thing go on a rampage on paralyzed teams lacking Knock Off or Trick.

**FLCL** · Nov 14th, 2012, 7:57:36 PM

using marowak and regice

alt: nisemono

edit: i just hit 70 deviation with a 2000+ glicko2 ranking!!!

here is the team i used

my team relied on marowak's ability to ko hazard users to support the rest of the team, especially regice. i had a really hard time if i couldn't ko the opponent's golem, gigalith, probopass, or other stealth rock users. everything is fairly bulky and hits hard, which isn't a surprise for those of you who are familiar with my play style. originally, i had tangela and musharna over skuntank and exeggutor, but that gave me a huge weakness to musharna if i couldn't win the cm war, so i put tangela and musharna into a blender and made exeggutor, which free'd up a team slot for skuntank. speaking of skuntank, it, in conjunction with kangaskhan, helps this team handle faster threats by bombarding them with priority. everything is quite slow, so this is extremely important. marowak is the bomb of the team, hitting everything extremely hard and 2hkoing pokemon like amoonguss, gurdurr, and piloswine, all of which are extremely bulky on the physical side. the two regis and exeggutor form the defensive core of the team. regice handles the water and grass types that give regirock trouble while regirock can switch into powerful fire attacks aimed at regice. both are weak to fighting, which is why exeggutor is needed. however, this makes me extremely weak to cb sawk and emboar if i predict incorrectly.

as for the research week pokemon themselves, they both exceeded my expectations in almost every aspect. i'll list the sets and give an in depth analysis of each:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat marowak

zebraiken (Marowak) @ Thick Club
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Bonemerang
- Double-Edge
- Stone Edge
- Substitute

marowak is an extremely underrated physical attacker in nu. most people don't expect it to hit nearly as hard as it does. they also underestimate marowak's 60/110/80 defenses, which are more than enough to prevent its substitutes from being broken by resisted hits. this set takes full advantage of marowak's ability to scare out rock and poison types. no flying-type looking to absorb a bonemerang enjoys taking a stone edge or double edge to the face while marowak hides behind its rhydon doll. substitute also allows marowak to avoid status from slower pokemon such as weezing, amoonguss, and regirock. bonemerang is marowak's main attack and hits most pokemon extremely hard. in fact, alomomola is the only target neutral to it that is not 2hkoed in the entire tier! double edge is not far behind in terms of power, it is generally the better attack to use against frail pokemon due to its perfect accuracy and lack of recoil, thanks to rock head. stone edge rounds off the coverage by hitting the flying and bug types that resist bonemerang. it also gets a meaty hit on misdreavus, which is one of the best counters to marowak.

as far as counters go, anything with good bulk and a resistance to ground can do well against marowak. grass-types are the prime examples; exeggutor, torterra, ludicolo, serperior, and tangela all can take a bonemerang and ohko back with a grass attack, although the former four do not like taking double edge. other pokemon immune to ground, such as misdreavus and weezing, can also handle marowak decently. however, the latter needs flamethrower to be able to break marowak's substitutes and avoid being 3hkoed by double edge. if marowak is not under a substitute, it will fold to any decently powered water, grass, ice, or special attack in general. it is also extremely easy to wear down due to lack of recovery and substitute. pokemon that can pass wish to it are a huge help; alomomola is a prime candidate since it can absorb any waterfalls aimed at marowak while luring out electric attacks for marowak to switch into. a heal bell user such as musharna is also appreciated since marowak absolutely hates any form of status. swellow is a much more offensive partner that can lure in rocks, u-turning to marowak which can then destroy them.

marowak is a high risk, high reward pokemon that is devastating when played right. in some matches, you might find it doing nothing, such as against weather teams, but it will almost always threaten the opponent's team with it's huge attack stat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat regice

raseri (Regice) @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

regice has been growing in popularity even before it was introduced in this research week. this is no surprise since it can comfortably take attacks from special attackers such as ludicolo, samurott, exeggutor, and haunter while striking back hard with the appropriate attack. the rest talk set can switch into amoonguss with no fear, absorbing spore and taking nearly no damage from giga drian or sludge bomb. it also handles alomomola decently since it shuts down the big fish's main form of damage and 2hkos with thunderbolt. since regice' special bulk is already so great, max special attack was used to put more "ommph" into its attacks. what separates regice from other special walls like lickilicky and mantine is its ability to constantly threaten the opposing team with a base 100 special attack stat and nearly perfect coverage.

regice' biggest flaw is its stealth rock weakness which allows it to be 2hkoed by pokemon such as gorebyss. the large list of moves that it is weak to does not help this cause one bit. if the opponent constantly applies pressure and forces regice out by double switching before it can rest, then it can end up doing nothing in a match. sleep talk can also be unreliable at times, and might let you down against something that resists one of its moves. a rapid spinner or something that can prevent hazards such as marowak, rampardos, cinccino, or torkoal are all very valuable teammates. like marowak, regice appreciates heal bell and wish support to increase its longevity. what even more important is a teammate that can cover its weaknesses to attacks such as Flare Blitz, Stone Edge, and Close Combat. once again, alomomola is one the best pokemon for this role.

in short, regice either walls something to death or is soundly defeated. not switching it too recklessly into hazards is the key. it is extremely easy to fit into defensive cores and stall teams due to its ability to wall nearly every special attacker in the game with the correct support.

KryptoKrunch · Nov 15th, 2012, 4:08:05 AM

I'm actually building a new team with Pinsir on it so this RP happened at a good time for me.

I'll be using Moxie Pinsir with X-Scissor/Close Combat/Stone Edge/EQ. Pinsir is a dangerous offensive threat to the metagame and I'm surprised he's not used more often. Great all-around coverage moves backed by a great Attack stat and a great ability in Moxie(Mold Breaker is still good; can hit Elektross with a SE EQ). He also packs a good defensive stat. Adding to his good defensive stat he has key resistances to common Ground and Fighting type attacks.

However, Pinsir does have a SR rock weakness, an average SpD stat and can be worn down easily(especially if LO is equipped). But I do think the pros outweigh the cons and I look forward to using Pinsir.

Alt: Spin Dr.

JirachiCelebiMew · Nov 15th, 2012, 9:25:08 PM

K, I'm joining. I'll be using Moxie LO Pinsir, possibly paired with Speed Boost Ninjask. If I'm able to pass on a Sub + at least one Speed Boost to Pinsir, it may as well be a GG for the opponent.

EDIT: Turns out my strategy was crap, as LO kills Pinsir too fast. I decided to switch Pinsir for Marowak.

Alt: Crowbat. Previous Alt that I will always use: Normalize

Shuckleking87 · Nov 15th, 2012, 9:32:53 PM

I've had experience with life orb rock polish Regice with focus blast, thunderbolt and ice beam, which is a surprise factor that can finish off team, especially if stealth rocks are removed. I also have used moxie sub pinsir, which is harder to use but easier to sweep with. That being said, I guess I will try Marowak and Miltank under Shuckleking14.

Shuckleking87 · Nov 16th, 2012, 10:20:50 PM

Ok, so I am only 17 battles in, but I have a 14-3 record after starting 5-3 (glicko2 deviation still too high). So my team consists of Marowak, Miltank, Serperior, Ninjask, Rotom-S and Samurott. The main objective of this team is to obviously get speed boosts, sword dances and/or substitutes to marowak to completely destroy teams. Here is the ideal three pokemon turn order that is the easiest way for this team's success.

...

DTC · Nov 18th, 2012, 10:55:54 PM

Good job on the peak, FLCL. All of your points on Marowak and Regice were very accurate. I especially agreed with what you said regarding hazards vs Regice: Regice is overall a solid Pokemon, but hazards really cut its life short and make it much harder to beat the threats it is supposed to beat.

I have already used Marowak / Regice a lot, so I am going to be testing Pinsir / Miltank this Research Group. Over the past few days I have accumulated ~20 battles with Pinsir so I will talk about it for now.

Now, before I say anything else, let me tell you that whenever I used Pinsir in the past, I was always disappointed by it. Reason for that? Probably because I looked at its performance in a vacuum. I did not give Pinsir that much of a chance, and threw it away after a few battles. Now that I have given Pinsir more of a chance, it has exceeded my expectations of it. It is actually a pretty good Pokemon.

During my playtesting, I used:

Pinsir @ Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- X-scissor
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Pretty good coverage overall, but it misses out on Golurk and does underwhelming damage to most Poison-types. Anyways, that coverage comes in handy in a lot of situations. When Pinsir gets going, it is hard to stop. If it manages to set up a Swords Dance, which is not that hard to set up considering Pinsir's physical bulk is above average, and you have a slow team, you are in a lot of trouble. I remember smashing FLCL's Research Group team because he did not have anything to stop Pinsir. Regirock got smashed by a +2 Close Combat. Moxie was not as useful as I thought it would be. It was not useful because most of the time I either switched right out after I killed something or Pinsir did not need the Moxie boost to sweep the team. Regardless, overall, Moxie would still have been more useful than any of its other abilities in my playtesting. I think I am about done with using Pinsir; I have established in my mind that it is a pretty good Pokemon that I would use again. Maybe I will test some other options on it like Substitute or Stealth Rock.

Here is the team I used:

Alomomola weak

Now time to use that fat cow.

Shuckleking87 · Nov 20th, 2012, 11:29:10 AM

60 Shuckleking14 1767 79.3 1852 ± 60
Don't know have to copy directly onto here. Not my best team, but it was so much fun to use.

Nov 14th, 2012, 6:07:39 PM	#1
DTC Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,069 Mentor	Research Group #9 - Marowak, Pinsir, Miltank, Regice Introduction: NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Group aids in helping explore the tier. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU. Some rules: Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize. Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them. Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing. Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the four Pokemon we are "researching". You'll be able to vote on what Pokemon you want the next Research Group right before it starts (out of a ballot that is determined by me) The four Pokemon that we will be looking into this Research Group are: How useful are these Pokemon in NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #neverused/#pokemon as well! The Research Week Challenge: Users will use any number of the research week mons on their team Users will attempt to reach as high as possible on the ladder with the Pokemon. Breaking past the 2000 mark on the ladder with your registered alt will earn you a spot on the Hall of Fame: Gold Class. Crossing the 1850 mark will secure you a Silver Class spot while a 1700 rating will earn you a Bronze Class spot. Post a screen-shot of your peak in order to achieve this, and a pastebin of your team. Note: this is for Glicko2. You must also have a deviation of 70. Users will be expected to post their experiences with the Pokemon they use, the teams they used, the problems they encountered while trying to make the said Pokemon work. If a user does not participate in the discussion, he will be passed over. In order to participate in the challenge, simply post here with a brand new alt. Post battle logs, experiences with your team on the ladder, and generally how a Pokemon has worked out for you: past or present. Research Week Hall of Fame Gold Class: 2000+ Silver Class: 1850-1999 Bronze Class: 1700-1849 Please include more substance in your posts than just "in" and what Pokemon you're using. What sets are you planning on using? What interests you about whatever Pokemon you're using? Remember: people who contribute a lot to Research Group will be listed on the hub page as an outstanding contributor for this Research Group. __________________ Pokemon Showdown! #pokemon

Nov 14th, 2012, 6:36:54 PM	#4
vileman Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 76 Chile	Well, ill be doing this just for fun and maybie, who knows, i can reach a high ladder ranking. Using the four of them. edit: forgot to put the alt:vileresearch EDIT: At the moment i have a record of 22 wins and 6 loses with an ACRE of 1702 and glicko2 shows 1812 ± 78. The team, as said, has the 4 research pokes, but also has the amoongus core, that helps a lot on wish support and to cover most of the fighting types. When i have time ill post the team in depth But as a summarry i have mootility, a special tank regice, sub+3 attacks amrowak and scarf mold breaker pinsir (has caught off guard sturdy users a lot, also some levitate users with EQ.) EDIT 2: So, the team its the following, ill just give a brief analisis of every member, because to be honest im not very good at analising things and enlgish not being my first lenguage doesnt helps so i apologise if there are a lot of gramar, spelling etcetc errors: ... Pinsir@choice scarf Trait: Mold Breaker EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP Jolly Nature - Close Combat - X-Scissor - Stone Edge - Earthquake Mold breaker catches sturdy and levitate users off-guard but ill be trying using moxie. The SR weakness hurts a lot but the wish support helps. X-scissor hurts the dark and psichic pokes in the tier like absol, kadabra, musharna, gardevoir , beheeymen, etc. The rest of the move give general coverage, Close combat for steel, rock and normal types, Stone edge for flying pokes and EQ its mostly for emboar but also catches all electric types, including eelektross thanks to mold breaker. THe problem with pinsir its that it will mostly have a hard time switching in and after it gets a kill it will have to switch out, but thats very common to most scarfers anyways. Marowak @ Thick Club Trait: Rock Head EVs: 252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 SDef Adamant Nature - Substitute - Earthquake - Double-Edge - Fire Punch Maroak hasnt been so usefull to my team tbh. It can get a substitute on fewe things, like torkoal who its slower. It does forces some switches to the likes of bastiodon and probopass but as said, its pretty limited. It does have nice Phisical bulk so it can tank some hits from fighting pokes and co to then proceed to KO them. Regice @ Leftovers Trait: Clear Body EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef Modest Nature - Ice Beam - Focus Blast - Thunderbolt - Rest Regice has been awsome, it can tank every special attacker i can remember, while hitting back hard with the appropiate move. Using rest without sleep talk ussually its stupid but it has milktank who can wake it up pretty easily altho they both share a fighting type weakness. The moves give neutral coverage to pretty much everything, and with a modest nature and 252 evs on spc attack it can hurt a lot of things on the switch in. Miltank (F) @ Leftovers Trait: Thick Fat EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk Impish Nature - Heal Bell - Milk Drink - Stealth Rock - Body Slam Mootility woorks very well for me, it can wall phisical attackers easily expect for fighting types, but those are covered with amoongus. It helps the whole team with heal bell, setting up stealth rocks and also paralising certain treats like cinccino with body slam. Amoonguss @ Leftovers Trait: Regenerator EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Def Bold Nature - Spore - Synthesis - Sludge Bomb - Giga Drain Amoongus its here pretty much to cover teh fighting types of NU who would otherwise hurt the whole team. I think everyone knows how it works, comes in, spores something and hurts water types if it can with giga drain. Alomomola @ Leftovers Trait: Regenerator EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 6 Atk Careful Nature - Wish - Toxic - Waterfall - Protect Alomomola helps with team with a very necesary wish supprt to the likes of marowak, pinsir and regice to cover the SR weakness and the lack of recovery. Dont really know why i made it specially defensive but it has fared well. And thats pretty much it, as a summarry: regice as aspecial tanks works awsomly, sub marowak its not so uch of my like, mootility its very hard to beat and helps the team quite easily and pinsir altho it has a hard time switching in it can revenge kill lot of things and hurts almost everything with its nice coverage. EDIT3: so yeah, got to bronze rank. I'll try to get to silver rank tho. (dont mind the ou matches, too lazy to change accounts lol) Last edited by vileman; Nov 17th, 2012 at 10:42:19 PM.

Nov 14th, 2012, 6:44:25 PM	#5
~~Oiawesome~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 165	Ill be using RPRegi and MoxiePinsir and meybe the others if I have enough time.Expect this post to be updated when Im done testing. Alt: BANMAGIKARP Last edited by Oiawesome; Nov 14th, 2012 at 10:11:19 PM.

Nov 14th, 2012, 7:40:21 PM	#6
~~A dude~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 188	Marowak: With a personal item in Thick Club that doubles his attack, it definitely should be feared. It is indeed a bit slow, but pairing it with a Trick Room user or a paralysis supporter can compensate for that. It hits really hard off the bat, and can wreck anything that fails to make it faint. A personal immunity to Thunder Wave and a resistance to Stealth Rock is really helpful for him. Although Marowak needs a bit of support to help him do his thing, he is an absolute menace that would be Ubers material with Speed Boost or Huge Power. I wish this guy got Head Smash and Rock Polish; he would be absolutely terrifying. The best set is the Substitute + 3 Attacks set, as Marowak has problems with durability. The set is simple: Set up Substitute on something seemingly harmless, like a Choice-locked Zebstrika, and let Marowak go on rampage. As for partners, fixing that speed is the best way to support it (Paralysis supporters like Natu/Lickilicky, etc.). There is no denying its horrible speed and a tad shaky defensive stats, but this thing's power is sick - watch this thing go on a rampage on paralyzed teams lacking Knock Off or Trick. Last edited by A dude; Nov 14th, 2012 at 7:53:17 PM.

Nov 15th, 2012, 4:08:05 AM	#8
KryptoKrunch Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 22	I'm actually building a new team with Pinsir on it so this RP happened at a good time for me. I'll be using Moxie Pinsir with X-Scissor/Close Combat/Stone Edge/EQ. Pinsir is a dangerous offensive threat to the metagame and I'm surprised he's not used more often. Great all-around coverage moves backed by a great Attack stat and a great ability in Moxie(Mold Breaker is still good; can hit Elektross with a SE EQ). He also packs a good defensive stat. Adding to his good defensive stat he has key resistances to common Ground and Fighting type attacks. However, Pinsir does have a SR rock weakness, an average SpD stat and can be worn down easily(especially if LO is equipped). But I do think the pros outweigh the cons and I look forward to using Pinsir. Alt: Spin Dr. Last edited by KryptoKrunch; Nov 15th, 2012 at 6:23:27 AM.

Nov 14th, 2012, 6:10:34 PM	#2
Raseri I'm a leaf on the wind; watch how i soar Moderator Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,719 Mentor	For the hall of fame, is it ACRE or glicko2? Also is there a deviation requirement? Regice is such a boss, ice moves are amazing right now - Rock Polish destroys teams! ill be using regice

Nov 15th, 2012, 9:25:08 PM	#9
JirachiCelebiMew Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 250 The Great Big Sea (Montreal)	K, I'm joining. I'll be using Moxie LO Pinsir, possibly paired with Speed Boost Ninjask. If I'm able to pass on a Sub + at least one Speed Boost to Pinsir, it may as well be a GG for the opponent. EDIT: Turns out my strategy was crap, as LO kills Pinsir too fast. I decided to switch Pinsir for Marowak. Alt: Crowbat. Previous Alt that I will always use: Normalize Last edited by JirachiCelebiMew; Nov 16th, 2012 at 4:25:51 PM. Reason: More info

Nov 15th, 2012, 9:32:53 PM	#10
Shuckleking87 Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 202 New Jersey	I've had experience with life orb rock polish Regice with focus blast, thunderbolt and ice beam, which is a surprise factor that can finish off team, especially if stealth rocks are removed. I also have used moxie sub pinsir, which is harder to use but easier to sweep with. That being said, I guess I will try Marowak and Miltank under Shuckleking14.

Nov 16th, 2012, 10:20:50 PM	#11
Shuckleking87 Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 202 New Jersey	Ok, so I am only 17 battles in, but I have a 14-3 record after starting 5-3 (glicko2 deviation still too high). So my team consists of Marowak, Miltank, Serperior, Ninjask, Rotom-S and Samurott. The main objective of this team is to obviously get speed boosts, sword dances and/or substitutes to marowak to completely destroy teams. Here is the ideal three pokemon turn order that is the easiest way for this team's success. ... Samurott@Life Orb Trait: Torrent Evs: 4 HP/252 SpA/ 252 Speed Timid(+Speed -A) Nature -Taunt -Hydro pump -Ice beam -Hidden power grass For stealth rock leads that think they have a guarantee way to get up stealth rocks, especially sometimes at the risk of losing their sturdy, as two of my pokes get really hurt by stealth rocks. However, taunt forces them the next turn to switch out or go for an attacking move. If they stay in, they will get destroyed by a hydro pump (barring cradily, who will get hit by ice beams). Most leads are rock/ ground types that will go for either a rock or ground move. If I think they will go for the ground move, I switch into ninjask. If rock move, marowak. This poke brings so much momentum and puts so much pressure onto stealth rock users. Most stealth rock users will also stay in because they assume I am physical and can take 1 or 2 waterfalls (last month only about 20% of samurotts carried hyrdo pump). Ninjask@Leftovers Trait: Speed boost EVs: 248 HP/252 D/4 SD Bold (+D -A) Nature -Protect -Substitute -Swords Dance -Baton Pass Pretty standard set for Ninjask. You can say it's my physical wall as it resists bug, fighting, ground and grass moves. I do not run any speed ev's, meaning if swellow and I or any high speed scarfed pokemon is in, and I don't use protect, then I'm screwed. However, for in those and in most cases, protect will be the first move I use. I like the extra bulk on ninjask to take weak attacks. Otherwise, pretty much set up speed, sword dances and subs for marowak. Cinccino can be a problem obviously with rock blasts, however, rotom-s out speeds and kills while a baton pass into serperior can do significant damage and possibly kill depending if stealth rocks are up. I have not had any problems dealing with cinccino yet, as it is usually switched onto while I sub. The speed can be passed onto other pokes if I feel marowak isn't ready to sweep and repeat the process (as rocks have been up for maybe 2 or 3 of the games so far, which I am shocked that finding a way to get rocks up isn't a first priority). Marowak@Very Big Bone Trait: Rock Head EVs: 4 HP/252 A/252 Speed Adament (+A -SA) Nature -Substitute -Boomerang -Stone Edge -Double Edge I'll show you what viable pokemon can take a +2 Attack hit from Marowak. -Tangela -Misdreavus -Torterra -Weezing -Alomomola -sub However, I would have to get at least one speed boost from ninjask, so I could 2HKO all of these pokes. Of course this is easier said then done, yet I have gotten probably at least 6, probably 8 sweeps with marowak. However, the order of what I would prefer Marowak to receive from Ninjask would be speed, then a sub, then attack. Marowak needs the speed to be effective, as while it has surprisingly decent 60/110/80 bulk, it would most likely exchange a kill for a kill or die to the popular grass/water/ice move. I choose boomerang over earthquake because marowak is carrying a dead pokemon's bone. That is bad ass, and I might as well use it. Also, it laughs at bastiodons that attempt to roar me away. The accuracy of the move is annoying, but has not caused me to lose marowak as a consequence. Double edge is a great high BP complement move, as they are the two moves I primarily use. I don't you stone edge that often, but when I do, I kill misdreavuses and haunters. Hypothetically, I hope to only use the three above pokes (actually I swept a team with my lead samurott). However, if marowak isn't as all mighty as he is, then here are the others. Miltank@Leftovers Trait: Thick Fat EVs:252 HP/252 SD/4 Speed Careful (+SD -SA) Nature -Stealth Rocks -Milk Drink -Heal Bell -Body Slam Here is the other Research Group Poke. While it really doesn't stand out, it serves the big importance of an ice resists. Even though ice moves are not that common (especially with STAB), it is not to have a resistance to a move that 4 pokes are weak to (probably not the best team building idea). It's also a poke that gets up stealth rocks, which is really not a top priority for this team as marowak can hit through sturdy that would otherwise give sawk a field day and I have pokes that can deal with flying types. Milk drink is a must for longevity and because it's a cow. What else would cows drink (well, water, but still..). Heal bell is there because it just should be, though I've really only used it when I miltank was statused. Probably another move cold fulfill its place (toxic/punishment/seismic toss?). I am still a huge fan of lickilicky, however, miltank's ice resistance is a big plus, and I am a fan of miltank's speed. Overall a very decent poke. Serperior@Leftovers Trait:Overgrow EVs:64 HP/252 SA/192 Speed Timid(+Speed -A) -Substitute -Calm Mind -Giga Drain -Dragon Pulse The last poke to place on my team. I had the top four initial core pokes that I wanted to use, so I knew I needed a scarfed poke that can outrun +2 timid Gorebyss and another poke. I really wanted another Attacking pokemon, but I also wanted a secondary set-up poke. I suppose Arbok, Gurdurr or Torterra could fit under this category, but i figured that all of the attack that I need really comes from marowak. This serperior set is great to use and is a good recipient from ninjask. On smogon, it says that serperior needs 196 speed to outspeed max 105's, however, 192 does the same, and I get 1 extra HP out of it. But basically set up a couple calm minds, sub to avoid status and sweep from there. It usually works for this team, though it is also the most expendable. Rotom-S@Choice Scarf Trait:Levitate (of course) EVs:252 SA/4 SD/ 252 Speed Timid (+Speed -A) -Air Slash -Thunderbolt -Volt Switch -Trick Arguably the best scarfer in NU. Pretty standard stuff. Volt Switch on pokes afraid of Trick to gain momentum(which is very important for this team), thunderbolt to give consistent and high damage while staying in (can also help with sub bulk up braviary, though I haven't encountered one yet) and air slash for grass types. This poke probably sees the least amount of playing time as it is more of an insurance case than anything, and samurott is my preferred early game momentum getter. This poke also outspeeds all sawks and swellow, which is also very handy. Its stealth rock weakness is evident though when it does appear on the field. So there's my team so far. I don't know if I should post this as an RMT, as it is already a long post, but any suggestions would be huge. -Hidden power grass or grass knot for samurott? -The little speed worth it for Ninjask? -Should heal bell come off miltank (most likely not)? -A potential poke to replace Serperior?

Nov 18th, 2012, 10:55:54 PM	#12
DTC Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,069 Mentor	Good job on the peak, FLCL. All of your points on Marowak and Regice were very accurate. I especially agreed with what you said regarding hazards vs Regice: Regice is overall a solid Pokemon, but hazards really cut its life short and make it much harder to beat the threats it is supposed to beat. I have already used Marowak / Regice a lot, so I am going to be testing Pinsir / Miltank this Research Group. Over the past few days I have accumulated ~20 battles with Pinsir so I will talk about it for now. Now, before I say anything else, let me tell you that whenever I used Pinsir in the past, I was always disappointed by it. Reason for that? Probably because I looked at its performance in a vacuum. I did not give Pinsir that much of a chance, and threw it away after a few battles. Now that I have given Pinsir more of a chance, it has exceeded my expectations of it. It is actually a pretty good Pokemon. During my playtesting, I used: Pinsir @ Life Orb Trait: Moxie EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA) - Swords Dance - X-scissor - Close Combat - Stone Edge Pretty good coverage overall, but it misses out on Golurk and does underwhelming damage to most Poison-types. Anyways, that coverage comes in handy in a lot of situations. When Pinsir gets going, it is hard to stop. If it manages to set up a Swords Dance, which is not that hard to set up considering Pinsir's physical bulk is above average, and you have a slow team, you are in a lot of trouble. I remember smashing FLCL's Research Group team because he did not have anything to stop Pinsir. Regirock got smashed by a +2 Close Combat. Moxie was not as useful as I thought it would be. It was not useful because most of the time I either switched right out after I killed something or Pinsir did not need the Moxie boost to sweep the team. Regardless, overall, Moxie would still have been more useful than any of its other abilities in my playtesting. I think I am about done with using Pinsir; I have established in my mind that it is a pretty good Pokemon that I would use again. Maybe I will test some other options on it like Substitute or Stealth Rock. Here is the team I used: Alomomola weak Pinsir @ Life Orb Trait: Moxie EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Swords Dance - X-Scissor - Close Combat - Stone Edge Alomomola @ Leftovers Trait: Regenerator EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Bold Nature - Wish - Protect - Scald - Toxic Emboar @ Choice Band Trait: Blaze EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Flare Blitz - Superpower - Head Smash - Sleep Talk Skuntank @ Dread Plate Trait: Aftermath EVs: 252 Atk / 220 SDef / 36 Spd Adamant Nature - Pursuit - Crunch - Sucker Punch - Taunt Golem @ Ground Gem Trait: Sturdy EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spd Adamant Nature - Stealth Rock - Earthquake - Rock Blast - Sucker Punch Braviary @ Choice Scarf Trait: Defiant EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Brave Bird - Return - Superpower - U-turn Now time to use that fat cow. __________________ Pokemon Showdown! #pokemon Last edited by DTC; Nov 18th, 2012 at 11:13:00 PM.

Nov 20th, 2012, 11:29:10 AM	#13
Shuckleking87 Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 202 New Jersey	60 Shuckleking14 1767 79.3 1852 ± 60 Don't know have to copy directly onto here. Not my best team, but it was so much fun to use.