Dragons Rule (literally)

pwnage77 · Jan 2nd, 2013, 7:33:38 AM

Dragons Rule (literally)

Introduction:

I've been wandering on the other tiers for so long that I forgot how fun it was back in OU. Recently, I've been thinking about Arcanine being the Pokemon that has the highest BST other than legendaries and pseudo-legendaries (not that the titles make much difference). 555 BST which is literally high and makes me wonder why it's UU despite the Fire-type. Then I've thought of pseudo-legends again and what they could do. Most are Dragons. Then I thought of dragons and how amazing they work in Ubers so I thought "Hey, why not use the famous double dragon strategy here in OU." And then here is where I started and came up with the team.

Team Members and Roles

The Team:

Salamence @ Life Orb
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

So I started off with Mence as a Dragon Dance set hoping it would just sweep late game or open up a path for Garchomp to sweep. But it didn't work (really). I barely had time to set up and since Salamence is slow, I still couldn't outrun Scarf base 101s and above. So most of the time, I was just hitting things. Then I just switched the set to the wall breaker one because I hardly find time to set up and I just wanted to watch things die or get weakened on the switch. Draco Meteor, while not the most reliable special dragon move, is my strongest STAB and is easily spammable despite the special attack drop and the imperfect accuracy (which has made me lose some games). After a kill, most special dragons just switch out, while Salamence on the other hand just gets moxie boost and just start clicking another move. This set faces stiff competition from mixed Hydreigon who has an interesting base 125 special attack, doesn't have a 4x weakness, better bulk, another STAB that could be usable, and most of all not weak to Stealth Rock. So why use Salamence? Easy: higher attack, Moxie, and is sitting in an important base speed, 100. And the thing about being a Salamence is that while it doesn't have three heads, it isn't forced out after a Draco Meteor. And among the things that make a dragon, Salamence. Haz. Wingz.

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Stone Edge

Garchomp, one of the most infuriating Pokemon in OU thanks to its ability: Sand Veil. With that ability, Garchomp could easily win a game with hax. But hax isn't just its weapon. It has STABs that are nearly unresisted, it is bulkier than Swampert (yes you just read that), it has a scary base 130 attack, and outruns Salamence (and Landorus and Thundurus-T). It also happens to look just as bad ass in my opinion. But if you look at it, Chomp has a lower base attack than its dragon brethren: Dragonite has 134, Salamence has 135, and lastly, Haxorus has 147. But then again let me emphasize that base 102 speed which just lets it absolutely wreck all three with a Choice Scarf even if they are all at +1 speed. With the release of Rough Skin, Garchomp was retested and thus it was proven that Garchomp only has one reason to be Uber. Now that it has a nearly useless ability, you could say that it's quite outclassed. Dragonite has Multiscale, Salamence has Intimidate / Moxie, and Haxorus has Mold Breaker. LET ME EMPHASIZE THAT BASE 102 SPEED ONCE MORE. This is the reason why I chose Garchomp as my other Dragon despite being 4x weak to Ice, same as Mence. Outrage is used for that almighty physical STAB. Earthquake for another STAB and coverage. Dragon Claw is the safest move to throw when you don't know what will come out next or when you want to revenge a flier or a levitator but you don't want to be locked into Outrage just yet. Stone Edge is for killing Volcarona. EVs are standard and that's all you need to know about this bad boy.

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Pain Split
- Volt Switch

Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin, two of the most important moves in the game (actually second and first respectively). Forretress has the bulk to do both while having an incredibly good synergy with my dragons. Forry can switch in on any physical attack aimed at Mence and Chomp and can also provide another form of support: Volt Switch. Thanks to Forretress' low speed, it almost always guarantees me a free switch to my dragons and allow them to freely wreck havoc throughout the whole metagame. Pain Split is for longevity to allow more spins as it is very important for Mence to live longer. It also gives me a bit of health back in case I encounter mixed mons who can hit Forry on the special side. Other than these, pretty standard.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
Calm Nature
- Pain Split
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump

Specially Defensive because Tornadus-T absolutely wrecks this team. I also thought that it's a good idea to have something for Keldeo as well. Since this is a weatherless team, it would be quite useful to have something to check rain threats. Rotom-W covers most if not all of the rain sweepers and can provide Thunder Wave support for Salamence to easily outspeed dem faster mons. Volt Switch is for the same reason as Forry's and Hydro Pump to just kill things and to not make me a complete Taunt bait. Pain Split for the only form of recovery outside Rest which is totally unreliable this gen, sadly. Though Rotom doesn't really do much in terms of offense, Hydro Pump still packs a punch especially under the rain so whatever you do, don't even try to take a hit from this guy.

Magnezone @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 152 HP / 176 Spd / 180 SAtk
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Charge Beam
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

The problem with having Dragon oriented teams is that you get walled by just about any steel type pokemanz. Magnezone is totally the dude for the job. The only steel that can beat Magnezone is Earthquake Bronzong which is totally rare. Want something even rarer? Earthquake Forretress which can't take even an unboosted Hidden Power Fire. I chose the bulky spread to ensure Ferrothorn doesn't break my sub with one Power Whip so I can set up more and I can at least get another kill after Ferro. I chose these moves for maximum coverage as like I said, I want to kill another Pokemon. With Magnezone's unique typing, fast Pokemon won't be able to break my sub with U-turn or Volt Switch allowing me to kill the switch in regardless if they are faster or not.

Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Serious Nature
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast

If there's one thing that this team is weak to, it's stall. I mean sure it isn't that common considering the fact that rain just got an ultimate upgrade with all those sweepers around, just think about a team without a stall breaker. It's absolute hell. Even in Ubers, trust me. So I got Reuniclus as a bulky attacker. Usually, I just end up having a lategame sweep once I've got a few Calm Minds since not even Rain boosted Hydro Pumps from Keldeo can OHKO me. It's basically like a Calm Mind Arceus except less bulky on both sides and is terribly slower. Calm Mind + Recover lets me set up to scary levels sweeping with Psyshock and Focus Blast.

Conclusion:

It's not the best team out there. It's just some sort of strategy I wanted to try out and it sort of works. While I can't brag a huge streak, I've been a bit successful with this team and I feel proud posting it here in Smogon for people to look at and possibly make it better. By all means, hit me with your rates. I'll accept both kinds of criticism as both will help me become a better player. That's all. Thanks in advance for the rates. Please help me point out threats as I feel that I haven't battled enough to cover every threat I can.

One Last Look:

Mr. Green · Jan 2nd, 2013, 9:05:23 AM

Hi, nice Dragon Spam team!
Salamence that i do not like so much, the set should not be mixed like that, but like this:

...

For your team I would suggest Garchomp on a version Swords Dancer and Salamence Scarfer with Moxie, which is a great revenge-killer.

For Forretress if you do not use Gyro Ball thing that I would recommend you do (Gyro Ball> Pain Split) in the 0 Speed Ivs are useless, you might as well not put and use Impish nature. Rotom-W could try it in its Chesto Rest also stops very well Tornadus-T in the Rain.
Magnezone SubCBeamer is nice, but to kill immediately, especially in a Dragon Spam, suggest you try running it as Choice Specser.

As for Reuniclus in this metagame, I think that works better as TrickRoomer, since it creates immediate damage that are important to your two Dragon in order to prepare the ground for them sweepare the best.
Good Luck, with your team!

Set:

...

Uomo Solo · Jan 2nd, 2013, 9:31:06 AM

Hey dude, really cool team, Dragon spam is a good way to win easily. Btw you have some trouble, so let s rate it :).

1. This is a quick playstyle, you cannot play Pokemon such as CMReuniclus or SpecialDefensive Rotom, is counterproductive. Forreress too is not a good idea, cause is a setup fodder, especially for Lucario/Scizor, the first destroy your entire team after SDance, the second only if Magnezone is KO, but is anyway a big problem. So I advice you to search some quick setter, Sashkion is a perfect pokemon for this role. It s great in DragoSpam cause it s fighting too, and can solve some problems like Ferrothorn/Skarmory(after SD) and can Taunt opponent eventually SR setter that can be a troubles. So I suggest you this Terrakion ( 252Atk/252Spd/4Sdef Jolly Nature @Focus Sash Close Combat/Taunt-Sword Dance/Stone Edge-Rock Slide/ Stealth Rock) over Forretress.

2. Let s go to Rotom-W problem. All we knows that Rotom-Wash is a good Water Resistor and and that his main task is to play against rain teams. So I suggest you to try LOLatios>Rotom-W.My first idea was to use Latias, but the team need more offensive as possible, so Latios is the better choice thanks to his Offensive Stat. It s a great switch-in on Politoed/Rotom/Starmie that could be a problem, and it s a great checker for Keldeo, one of your big problems, cause with choice scarf can outspeed and kill both your dragons, that have 4x weakness to Icy Wind/HP ice.

3. Now your team is becoming very offensive and quick, and this is an advantage in a metagame that leaves few rounds; now we must resolve the issue Reuniclus. It s fantastic pokemon, but is not for this team, cause increases the weakness to Lucario's coverage(Crunchx2), that should setup on Garchomp Outrage. Twist of fate i suggest you to try Lucario>Reuniclus. Magnezone Magnezone is not enough to cover the weakness of dragons opponents, and Lucario is a fantastic core with your Salamence and the latios suggested; It can setup on revengekiller such as Kelde Scarf locked on HPice/icywind/Terrakion Scarf locked on Sedge/Rock Slide and opponent Dragons (Latios/as Locked on -2 Dmeteor), and close the match.

4. Right now that seems to have said everything I have one last suggestion.Your magnezone is slower than the rest of the team, and the strategy SubBoost with Charge Beam may fail against Bulldoze Ferrothorn/Uturn Scizor. So i advice you to change it in Magneton, and give it the Choice Scarf. Why? It s easy. Magneton has more base Speed than his Evo, so with the support of choice scarf he can outspeed Tornadus-T and eventually enter on it, it would be a good thing from the moment you have not switch in on that pokemon, pokemon that has an incredible usage.

That s all, hope I helped :)

Tl;dr

...

pwnage77 · Jan 3rd, 2013, 8:15:22 AM

Hey guy I appreciate the rate really but it's quite clear that you did not see the team in depth. I would like to inform both of you that this is NOT a dragon spam team. This is a double dragon team. The main difference between the two is that dragon spam aims to finish the game asap as dragon moves offer really great coverage and high base power which usually decimates opposing teams in a matter of a few turns. Double dragon however is totally different.

The goal of a double dragon team is to wallbreak with one dragon (or simply weaken the walls) to open up a sweep for the other. It doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be done fast. You can always take your time with your other teammates to do their job first and just continue with sweeping with the sweeper dragon. In this case, salamence is the wall breaker and garchomp is the sweeper. It might make you wonder why I chose chomp as scarfer and not mence but the answer is already emphasized in garchomp's description.

Going back to your rates:
@mr.green: mind telling me why you recommend that set? I believe I can't simply make changes just because my raters don't like the set I'm using. Also please explain the garchomp set. As for forry, I won't ever use gyro ball and 0 speed IVs is to make sure I rapid spin after my opponent sets his hazards so it's not useless. Explain why use chestorest over pain split.

And as this is not a dragon spam, I'm fine with subcharger for the reasons stated. I'll check out TR reuniclus.

@uomosolo: suggestion number one could easily be scratched as again, this is not dragon spam so a quick playstyle isn't really required though terrakion could be of some use to get rid of steels. It would be appreciated if you could suggest another set as reuniclus is sometimes death fodder.
Could you please explain exactly why the team needs to be offensive? I see no reason. Latios also adds to the ice weakness.
Well it's kinda a debate really. Which should I use: terrakion or lucario? Lucario is more tempting though.
Lastly, I am not especially weak to bulldoze ferro or u-turn scizor as both dies to hidden power fire and ferro rarely carries bulldoze anyway. Magneton is still quite tempting.

Changes I'm considering:
terrakion/lucario
tr reuniclus
possibly magneton

however all those changes require a bit more explanation why I should use them. Tr reuniclus doesn't require one though as I see why I should use it.

Mr. Green · Jan 3rd, 2013, 8:28:28 AM

Because Rotom-W Chesto Rest unlike what you use it you can repair from the status, for example, paralysis and burn, using Rest and then wake up thanks to the berry. For this I read that you need to Tornadus-T I believe this set more suitable.
As far as I suggested Garchomp set Swords Dancer with Salac Berry, because as I suggested revenge killer with Moxie Salamence, which is great in this,The set of Salamence you did is a mixture of Moxie Mence and mixed Mence and in my mix two moveset is counterproductive . The set of Garchomp with Salac Berry aims to use Substitute the necessary amount of times to activate the berry that increases the speed, thanks to this and to Swords Dance Garchomp is capable of demolishing the opponent team.
Since the only things that would give him trouble are the priority, Scizor you should have already eliminated thanks to Magnezone.

Uomo Solo · Jan 3rd, 2013, 10:15:07 AM

Well you re right when you tell about the change suggested by Mr.Green, because if you want a revengekiller is better Garchomp that s faster than Salamence and does not need to do speed tie against Scarfrachi, and outspeed Thundurus-T that now has more usage from the moment that Genesect is banned (i told you this because youre using Garchomp, so i mean from Smogon Ou current) but now i want to explain better as you told me my possible advices.
First off, Draco Spam or not, all we can see that s without doubt an Offensive team and have only one pokemon with the weakness to SR, you never and i mean will have the time to spin , and even if you sometimes have you lose momentum, lost of momentum is equal to more probability to lose, so my question is: do you want lose? I think that no. The choice into Terrakion is not casual, you can use it in first time as settet, but it s usefull agains a Shed Shell Skarmory or Forretress and is a great wall breaker, that you can use id the match request, for example against a stall is a fantastic thing or against some Hail Team that he practicly destroy without help.
About Lucario, i was thinking that a time you have replaced Forretress, you could have some trouble especially against Dragon pokemons, for example Nite,Salamence,or Latwins too, you told that isn t a Draco Spam and you don t want to play as a Drago Spam, so my question is: do you want only revengekill those pokemon? I think again that your answer is no. Lucario is a great pokemon in this team because it cover your main weakness: Ice and Edge, it doesnt limit his work only to stop these weakness, he use his resistence as setupp fodder especially when the opponent pokemon is locked by common offensive item such as Choice Scarf. He may give you help against Mamoswine, wich can 2HOKO all your team, he give you 2 priority moves, that are basic in this so fast metagame and so on.
Reuniclus in my opinion is the trouble in this nice team, CM need much more support, and this offensive team cant guarantee it to him, TRoom is the cleaner especially in balanced team, have you ever asked yourself why? It s too easy, because is not the only abuser. Into a so fast team he can t work so well, is mainly counterproductive. Last thing, i already told you the reason of Magneton, you really have nothing that can enter on Tornadus-T, my first idea was to use Bronzong that completely wall it, but i asked myself.if was better to change so much YOUR team, my answer was been another time NO.

Hope you undestood why i suggested you those advices.

pwnage77 · Jan 4th, 2013, 4:48:03 AM

@mr.green i think uomo solo got my point in using garchomp as scarfer and not mence. moxie + mixed (meaning special attacks) isn't a good combination as you'll be out anyway cause the boosts mean nothing. thanks for taking your time though.

@uomo solo: i'll try out Lucario over Reuniclus but like I said, this team needs not to be as fast as the metagame is and I'll correct you with one thing. I do have a switch in to Tornadus but what I do not have a switch in on is Thundurus-T which is why Scarfchomp. Also, my team is balanced not offensive. 2 sweepers, 2 walls, 2 other auxiliary. I'll test Lucario first. Also, I still quite need a spinner even if Salamence is the only Stealth Rock weak pokemon as I usually use his resistances to switch in and hit hard. Stealth Rock will make that switch harder as Terrakion has a chance to 2HKO with Close Combat after Stealth Rock. If Forretress is not the one for the job, then who do you think I should use?

pwnage77 · Jan 5th, 2013, 5:29:01 AM

badump !!

so i've been testing out Lucario and so far, it's good. The thing is, I'm not a LOT more weak to Rain stall and that I have no proper switch in to Fighting type moves. To make things worse, only Salamence resist the fighting moves. Help

Uomo Solo · Jan 5th, 2013, 10:33:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat pwnage77

badump !!

so i've been testing out Lucario and so far, it's good. The thing is, I'm not a LOT more weak to Rain stall and that I have no proper switch in to Fighting type moves. To make things worse, only Salamence resist the fighting moves. Help

Sorry, i did not have the connection for some preoblems, so i could not answer your question. When i suggested you to use Lucario, I also spoke about Latias, and the reason is your Fight spam weakness. Even if is a dragon type, it works perfectly and more similiar to rotom against Rain Team. It help you especially against Keldeo/Terrakion+ CScarf wich who you have neither a counter or revengekiller except when them are locked into Rock/Ice moves,perfectly covered by Lucario (them both outspeed ScarfChomp).My idea is to try a set not much more offensive, from the moment you said that is not a Dragon Spam, so i suggest this EVs spread: 72HP/184SAtk/252Spd and moveset of Dmeteor/Recover-Roost/Surf/Psyshock with Life Orb Item and Timid Nature.With this you can be only 3HOKO'd by Hpump ScarfKeldeo under rain wheather.

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 184 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Roost

pwnage77 · Jan 5th, 2013, 9:02:08 PM

i'll check the latias out. but i think i should replace magnezone, not rotom. if ever i replace rotom, i will have no switch in on tornadus

Jan 2nd, 2013, 7:33:38 AM	#1
pwnage77 Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 251 Philippines	Dragons Rule (literally) Dragons Rule (literally) Introduction: I've been wandering on the other tiers for so long that I forgot how fun it was back in OU. Recently, I've been thinking about Arcanine being the Pokemon that has the highest BST other than legendaries and pseudo-legendaries (not that the titles make much difference). 555 BST which is literally high and makes me wonder why it's UU despite the Fire-type. Then I've thought of pseudo-legends again and what they could do. Most are Dragons. Then I thought of dragons and how amazing they work in Ubers so I thought "Hey, why not use the famous double dragon strategy here in OU." And then here is where I started and came up with the team. Team Members and Roles - Salamence as the wall breaker. - Garchomp as the Choice Scarfer and lategame sweeper. - Forretress as the Stealth Rocker and Rapid Spinner. - Rotom-W as the special sponge and momentum grabber. - Magnezone as the (real) steel killer. - Reuniclus as the anti-stall Pokemon and special sweeper. The Team: Salamence @ Life Orb Trait: Moxie EVs: 64 Atk / 192 SAtk / 252 Spd Naive Nature - Draco Meteor - Outrage - Fire Blast - Earthquake So I started off with Mence as a Dragon Dance set hoping it would just sweep late game or open up a path for Garchomp to sweep. But it didn't work (really). I barely had time to set up and since Salamence is slow, I still couldn't outrun Scarf base 101s and above. So most of the time, I was just hitting things. Then I just switched the set to the wall breaker one because I hardly find time to set up and I just wanted to watch things die or get weakened on the switch. Draco Meteor, while not the most reliable special dragon move, is my strongest STAB and is easily spammable despite the special attack drop and the imperfect accuracy (which has made me lose some games). After a kill, most special dragons just switch out, while Salamence on the other hand just gets moxie boost and just start clicking another move. This set faces stiff competition from mixed Hydreigon who has an interesting base 125 special attack, doesn't have a 4x weakness, better bulk, another STAB that could be usable, and most of all not weak to Stealth Rock. So why use Salamence? Easy: higher attack, Moxie, and is sitting in an important base speed, 100. And the thing about being a Salamence is that while it doesn't have three heads, it isn't forced out after a Draco Meteor. And among the things that make a dragon, Salamence. Haz. Wingz. Garchomp @ Choice Scarf Trait: Rough Skin EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Outrage - Earthquake - Dragon Claw - Stone Edge Garchomp, one of the most infuriating Pokemon in OU thanks to its ability: Sand Veil. With that ability, Garchomp could easily win a game with hax. But hax isn't just its weapon. It has STABs that are nearly unresisted, it is bulkier than Swampert (yes you just read that), it has a scary base 130 attack, and outruns Salamence (and Landorus and Thundurus-T). It also happens to look just as bad ass in my opinion. But if you look at it, Chomp has a lower base attack than its dragon brethren: Dragonite has 134, Salamence has 135, and lastly, Haxorus has 147. But then again let me emphasize that base 102 speed which just lets it absolutely wreck all three with a Choice Scarf even if they are all at +1 speed. With the release of Rough Skin, Garchomp was retested and thus it was proven that Garchomp only has one reason to be Uber. Now that it has a nearly useless ability, you could say that it's quite outclassed. Dragonite has Multiscale, Salamence has Intimidate / Moxie, and Haxorus has Mold Breaker. LET ME EMPHASIZE THAT BASE 102 SPEED ONCE MORE. This is the reason why I chose Garchomp as my other Dragon despite being 4x weak to Ice, same as Mence. Outrage is used for that almighty physical STAB. Earthquake for another STAB and coverage. Dragon Claw is the safest move to throw when you don't know what will come out next or when you want to revenge a flier or a levitator but you don't want to be locked into Outrage just yet. Stone Edge is for killing Volcarona. EVs are standard and that's all you need to know about this bad boy. Forretress @ Leftovers Trait: Sturdy EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef Relaxed Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Stealth Rock - Rapid Spin - Pain Split - Volt Switch Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin, two of the most important moves in the game (actually second and first respectively). Forretress has the bulk to do both while having an incredibly good synergy with my dragons. Forry can switch in on any physical attack aimed at Mence and Chomp and can also provide another form of support: Volt Switch. Thanks to Forretress' low speed, it almost always guarantees me a free switch to my dragons and allow them to freely wreck havoc throughout the whole metagame. Pain Split is for longevity to allow more spins as it is very important for Mence to live longer. It also gives me a bit of health back in case I encounter mixed mons who can hit Forry on the special side. Other than these, pretty standard. Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef Calm Nature - Pain Split - Thunder Wave - Volt Switch - Hydro Pump Specially Defensive because Tornadus-T absolutely wrecks this team. I also thought that it's a good idea to have something for Keldeo as well. Since this is a weatherless team, it would be quite useful to have something to check rain threats. Rotom-W covers most if not all of the rain sweepers and can provide Thunder Wave support for Salamence to easily outspeed dem faster mons. Volt Switch is for the same reason as Forry's and Hydro Pump to just kill things and to not make me a complete Taunt bait. Pain Split for the only form of recovery outside Rest which is totally unreliable this gen, sadly. Though Rotom doesn't really do much in terms of offense, Hydro Pump still packs a punch especially under the rain so whatever you do, don't even try to take a hit from this guy. Magnezone @ Leftovers Trait: Magnet Pull EVs: 152 HP / 176 Spd / 180 SAtk Modest Nature - Substitute - Charge Beam - Flash Cannon - Hidden Power [Fire] The problem with having Dragon oriented teams is that you get walled by just about any steel type pokemanz. Magnezone is totally the dude for the job. The only steel that can beat Magnezone is Earthquake Bronzong which is totally rare. Want something even rarer? Earthquake Forretress which can't take even an unboosted Hidden Power Fire. I chose the bulky spread to ensure Ferrothorn doesn't break my sub with one Power Whip so I can set up more and I can at least get another kill after Ferro. I chose these moves for maximum coverage as like I said, I want to kill another Pokemon. With Magnezone's unique typing, fast Pokemon won't be able to break my sub with U-turn or Volt Switch allowing me to kill the switch in regardless if they are faster or not. Reuniclus @ Leftovers Trait: Magic Guard EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef Serious Nature - Calm Mind - Recover - Psyshock - Focus Blast If there's one thing that this team is weak to, it's stall. I mean sure it isn't that common considering the fact that rain just got an ultimate upgrade with all those sweepers around, just think about a team without a stall breaker. It's absolute hell. Even in Ubers, trust me. So I got Reuniclus as a bulky attacker. Usually, I just end up having a lategame sweep once I've got a few Calm Minds since not even Rain boosted Hydro Pumps from Keldeo can OHKO me. It's basically like a Calm Mind Arceus except less bulky on both sides and is terribly slower. Calm Mind + Recover lets me set up to scary levels sweeping with Psyshock and Focus Blast. Conclusion: It's not the best team out there. It's just some sort of strategy I wanted to try out and it sort of works. While I can't brag a huge streak, I've been a bit successful with this team and I feel proud posting it here in Smogon for people to look at and possibly make it better. By all means, hit me with your rates. I'll accept both kinds of criticism as both will help me become a better player. That's all. Thanks in advance for the rates. Please help me point out threats as I feel that I haven't battled enough to cover every threat I can. One Last Look: __________________ If Slaking gets another ability other than Truant(and Slow Start), it would be Uber with that monstrous stats. Last edited by pwnage77; Jan 4th, 2013 at 4:52:25 AM.

Jan 2nd, 2013, 9:05:23 AM	#2
Mr. Green Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 143 Italy	Hi, nice Dragon Spam team! Salamence that i do not like so much, the set should not be mixed like that, but like this: ... Salamence (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Intimidate EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Naive Nature (+ Spd,-SDef) - Earthquake - Roost - Draco Meteor - Fire Blast For your team I would suggest Garchomp on a version Swords Dancer and Salamence Scarfer with Moxie, which is a great revenge-killer. For Forretress if you do not use Gyro Ball thing that I would recommend you do (Gyro Ball> Pain Split) in the 0 Speed Ivs are useless, you might as well not put and use Impish nature. Rotom-W could try it in its Chesto Rest also stops very well Tornadus-T in the Rain. Magnezone SubCBeamer is nice, but to kill immediately, especially in a Dragon Spam, suggest you try running it as Choice Specser. As for Reuniclus in this metagame, I think that works better as TrickRoomer, since it creates immediate damage that are important to your two Dragon in order to prepare the ground for them sweepare the best. Good Luck, with your team! Set: ... Garchomp (F) @ Salac Berry / Leftovers Trait: Rough Skin EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Substitute - Dragon Claw - Earthquake - Swords Dance Salamence (M) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Moxie EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Outrage - Dragon Claw - Earthquake - Fire Blast Magnezone @ Choice Specs Trait: Magnet Pull EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk) - Volt Switch - Thunderbolt - Hidden Power [Fire] - Flash Cannon Reuniclus (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Magic Guard EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd) - Trick Room - Psyshock - Focus Blast - Shadow Ball And: Gyro Ball > Pain Split on Forretress

Jan 2nd, 2013, 9:31:06 AM	#3
Uomo Solo Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 145 Naples, Italy	Hey dude, really cool team, Dragon spam is a good way to win easily. Btw you have some trouble, so let s rate it :). 1. This is a quick playstyle, you cannot play Pokemon such as CMReuniclus or SpecialDefensive Rotom, is counterproductive. Forreress too is not a good idea, cause is a setup fodder, especially for Lucario/Scizor, the first destroy your entire team after SDance, the second only if Magnezone is KO, but is anyway a big problem. So I advice you to search some quick setter, Sashkion is a perfect pokemon for this role. It s great in DragoSpam cause it s fighting too, and can solve some problems like Ferrothorn/Skarmory(after SD) and can Taunt opponent eventually SR setter that can be a troubles. So I suggest you this Terrakion ( 252Atk/252Spd/4Sdef Jolly Nature @Focus Sash Close Combat/Taunt-Sword Dance/Stone Edge-Rock Slide/ Stealth Rock) over Forretress. 2. Let s go to Rotom-W problem. All we knows that Rotom-Wash is a good Water Resistor and and that his main task is to play against rain teams. So I suggest you to try LOLatios>Rotom-W.My first idea was to use Latias, but the team need more offensive as possible, so Latios is the better choice thanks to his Offensive Stat. It s a great switch-in on Politoed/Rotom/Starmie that could be a problem, and it s a great checker for Keldeo, one of your big problems, cause with choice scarf can outspeed and kill both your dragons, that have 4x weakness to Icy Wind/HP ice. 3. Now your team is becoming very offensive and quick, and this is an advantage in a metagame that leaves few rounds; now we must resolve the issue Reuniclus. It s fantastic pokemon, but is not for this team, cause increases the weakness to Lucario's coverage(Crunchx2), that should setup on Garchomp Outrage. Twist of fate i suggest you to try Lucario>Reuniclus. Magnezone Magnezone is not enough to cover the weakness of dragons opponents, and Lucario is a fantastic core with your Salamence and the latios suggested; It can setup on revengekiller such as Kelde Scarf locked on HPice/icywind/Terrakion Scarf locked on Sedge/Rock Slide and opponent Dragons (Latios/as Locked on -2 Dmeteor), and close the match. 4. Right now that seems to have said everything I have one last suggestion.Your magnezone is slower than the rest of the team, and the strategy SubBoost with Charge Beam may fail against Bulldoze Ferrothorn/Uturn Scizor. So i advice you to change it in Magneton, and give it the Choice Scarf. Why? It s easy. Magneton has more base Speed than his Evo, so with the support of choice scarf he can outspeed Tornadus-T and eventually enter on it, it would be a good thing from the moment you have not switch in on that pokemon, pokemon that has an incredible usage. That s all, hope I helped :) Tl;dr ... Terrakion @ Focus Sash Trait: Justified EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Close Combat - Swords Dance/Taunt - Stone Edge - Stealth Rock Latios (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Levitate EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Surf - Psyshock - Draco Meteor - Recover Lucario (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Inner Focus EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Swords Dance - ExtremeSpeed - Bullet Punch - Close Combat Magneton @ Choice Scarf Trait: Magnet Pull EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Thunder - Volt Switch - Flash Cannon - Hidden Power [Fire] __________________ VM or PM me for an OU Team Rate! Check Out my last team Envincibile Armada [Peaked 1#]

Jan 3rd, 2013, 8:15:22 AM	#4
pwnage77 Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 251 Philippines	Hey guy I appreciate the rate really but it's quite clear that you did not see the team in depth. I would like to inform both of you that this is NOT a dragon spam team. This is a double dragon team. The main difference between the two is that dragon spam aims to finish the game asap as dragon moves offer really great coverage and high base power which usually decimates opposing teams in a matter of a few turns. Double dragon however is totally different. The goal of a double dragon team is to wallbreak with one dragon (or simply weaken the walls) to open up a sweep for the other. It doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be done fast. You can always take your time with your other teammates to do their job first and just continue with sweeping with the sweeper dragon. In this case, salamence is the wall breaker and garchomp is the sweeper. It might make you wonder why I chose chomp as scarfer and not mence but the answer is already emphasized in garchomp's description. Going back to your rates: @mr.green: mind telling me why you recommend that set? I believe I can't simply make changes just because my raters don't like the set I'm using. Also please explain the garchomp set. As for forry, I won't ever use gyro ball and 0 speed IVs is to make sure I rapid spin after my opponent sets his hazards so it's not useless. Explain why use chestorest over pain split. And as this is not a dragon spam, I'm fine with subcharger for the reasons stated. I'll check out TR reuniclus. @uomosolo: suggestion number one could easily be scratched as again, this is not dragon spam so a quick playstyle isn't really required though terrakion could be of some use to get rid of steels. It would be appreciated if you could suggest another set as reuniclus is sometimes death fodder. Could you please explain exactly why the team needs to be offensive? I see no reason. Latios also adds to the ice weakness. Well it's kinda a debate really. Which should I use: terrakion or lucario? Lucario is more tempting though. Lastly, I am not especially weak to bulldoze ferro or u-turn scizor as both dies to hidden power fire and ferro rarely carries bulldoze anyway. Magneton is still quite tempting. Changes I'm considering: terrakion/lucario tr reuniclus possibly magneton however all those changes require a bit more explanation why I should use them. Tr reuniclus doesn't require one though as I see why I should use it. __________________ If Slaking gets another ability other than Truant(and Slow Start), it would be Uber with that monstrous stats.

Jan 3rd, 2013, 10:15:07 AM	#6
Uomo Solo Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 145 Naples, Italy	Well you re right when you tell about the change suggested by Mr.Green, because if you want a revengekiller is better Garchomp that s faster than Salamence and does not need to do speed tie against Scarfrachi, and outspeed Thundurus-T that now has more usage from the moment that Genesect is banned (i told you this because youre using Garchomp, so i mean from Smogon Ou current) but now i want to explain better as you told me my possible advices. First off, Draco Spam or not, all we can see that s without doubt an Offensive team and have only one pokemon with the weakness to SR, you never and i mean will have the time to spin , and even if you sometimes have you lose momentum, lost of momentum is equal to more probability to lose, so my question is: do you want lose? I think that no. The choice into Terrakion is not casual, you can use it in first time as settet, but it s usefull agains a Shed Shell Skarmory or Forretress and is a great wall breaker, that you can use id the match request, for example against a stall is a fantastic thing or against some Hail Team that he practicly destroy without help. About Lucario, i was thinking that a time you have replaced Forretress, you could have some trouble especially against Dragon pokemons, for example Nite,Salamence,or Latwins too, you told that isn t a Draco Spam and you don t want to play as a Drago Spam, so my question is: do you want only revengekill those pokemon? I think again that your answer is no. Lucario is a great pokemon in this team because it cover your main weakness: Ice and Edge, it doesnt limit his work only to stop these weakness, he use his resistence as setupp fodder especially when the opponent pokemon is locked by common offensive item such as Choice Scarf. He may give you help against Mamoswine, wich can 2HOKO all your team, he give you 2 priority moves, that are basic in this so fast metagame and so on. Reuniclus in my opinion is the trouble in this nice team, CM need much more support, and this offensive team cant guarantee it to him, TRoom is the cleaner especially in balanced team, have you ever asked yourself why? It s too easy, because is not the only abuser. Into a so fast team he can t work so well, is mainly counterproductive. Last thing, i already told you the reason of Magneton, you really have nothing that can enter on Tornadus-T, my first idea was to use Bronzong that completely wall it, but i asked myself.if was better to change so much YOUR team, my answer was been another time NO. Hope you undestood why i suggested you those advices. __________________ VM or PM me for an OU Team Rate! Check Out my last team Envincibile Armada [Peaked 1#]

Jan 3rd, 2013, 8:28:28 AM	#5
Mr. Green Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 143 Italy	Because Rotom-W Chesto Rest unlike what you use it you can repair from the status, for example, paralysis and burn, using Rest and then wake up thanks to the berry. For this I read that you need to Tornadus-T I believe this set more suitable. As far as I suggested Garchomp set Swords Dancer with Salac Berry, because as I suggested revenge killer with Moxie Salamence, which is great in this,The set of Salamence you did is a mixture of Moxie Mence and mixed Mence and in my mix two moveset is counterproductive . The set of Garchomp with Salac Berry aims to use Substitute the necessary amount of times to activate the berry that increases the speed, thanks to this and to Swords Dance Garchomp is capable of demolishing the opponent team. Since the only things that would give him trouble are the priority, Scizor you should have already eliminated thanks to Magnezone.

Jan 4th, 2013, 4:48:03 AM	#7
pwnage77 Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 251 Philippines	@mr.green i think uomo solo got my point in using garchomp as scarfer and not mence. moxie + mixed (meaning special attacks) isn't a good combination as you'll be out anyway cause the boosts mean nothing. thanks for taking your time though. @uomo solo: i'll try out Lucario over Reuniclus but like I said, this team needs not to be as fast as the metagame is and I'll correct you with one thing. I do have a switch in to Tornadus but what I do not have a switch in on is Thundurus-T which is why Scarfchomp. Also, my team is balanced not offensive. 2 sweepers, 2 walls, 2 other auxiliary. I'll test Lucario first. Also, I still quite need a spinner even if Salamence is the only Stealth Rock weak pokemon as I usually use his resistances to switch in and hit hard. Stealth Rock will make that switch harder as Terrakion has a chance to 2HKO with Close Combat after Stealth Rock. If Forretress is not the one for the job, then who do you think I should use? __________________ If Slaking gets another ability other than Truant(and Slow Start), it would be Uber with that monstrous stats.

Jan 5th, 2013, 5:29:01 AM	#8
pwnage77 Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 251 Philippines	badump !! so i've been testing out Lucario and so far, it's good. The thing is, I'm not a LOT more weak to Rain stall and that I have no proper switch in to Fighting type moves. To make things worse, only Salamence resist the fighting moves. Help __________________ If Slaking gets another ability other than Truant(and Slow Start), it would be Uber with that monstrous stats.

Jan 5th, 2013, 9:02:08 PM	#10
pwnage77 Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 251 Philippines	i'll check the latias out. but i think i should replace magnezone, not rotom. if ever i replace rotom, i will have no switch in on tornadus __________________ If Slaking gets another ability other than Truant(and Slow Start), it would be Uber with that monstrous stats.