Pokemon of the Week #16: Latias

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat Princess Bri

Is it just me, or do you find SpDef Celebi and a Jirachi redundant? Both cover similar threats.. I don't know. I just don't think Celebi is as great of a partner as you say.

Actually SpD Celebi and physically defensive Jirachi make a very good defensive combo, especially in rain teams where their Fire weakness is mitigated and Celebi can wall any Water type even with the Drizzle boost. Celebi handles any Electric, Ground, and Water type Pokemon that can get past Jirachi, such as Landorus, Jolteon, Rotom-W, Starmie, and Keldeo, while Jirachi handles Dragon-types that can set-up on Celebi. What's more is that any of the two can learn SR, giving you some freedom to their moveslots, and Jirachi has the ability to take the sweeping route too with CM, while finally Celebi provides the defensive core with the awesome Perish Song, meaning that between Perish Song, and Jirachi's paraflinch shenanigans it will be hard for the opponent to find a set-up chance. Not the perfect partnership but it surely has its merits.

[PK Gaming]

We've gotten to a point in BW OU where there's really no reason NOT to run Jirachi. It just checks so many of the threats (the Dragons and most notably Tornadus-T, who is extremely difficult to stop) and its CM sets can dismantle standard teams. No really, CM will 6-0 your stock HO team when given the chance to set up (its got plenty of chances).

Jirachi is the ultimate glue Pokemon, if you ever like your team is missing something, that something is probably Jirachi.

[Shurtugal]

Jirachi is amazing. I persoanally love hitting 290 speed for Mamoswine and Adamant max speed Gliscor. I mean, Jirachi gets SR, steel typing, and it makes a GREAT piviot. It dents much of the metagame, and like PK said, there really isn't a reason NOT to run it. It just covers so many threats (rachi promises a decent check to every Dragon, paralysis on faster threats, SR, it promises to dent 4/6 of just about every sand team, rotom-w is a joke you BS for like 38% and Iron Head does like 16% and it's really hard for Rotom-W to do anything back outside of rain (unless it carries the imiss-o-wisp), and steel typing). You could literally BS the Rotom-W switch in (para) and Iron Head twice and knock it into BS KO range, and two paraflinches isn't asking a lot when it comes to Jirachi lol. I don't know most teams rely on Rotom-W to counter piviot rachi when it can't really...

SubCM Rachi is also awesome. While you don't get rocks you do get the ability to counter every special sweeper in the game (well, maybe not... oh wait nvm rachi sets up on every special sweeper). I assume rain btw.

I wouldn't say anything is a good partner for Jirachi, its that Jirachi is a good partner for you. I have one word that sums up Jirachi's amazing existence: glue. Lack SR? Jirachi. Dragon weak? Jirachi. Fear Magnezone? LOL Fire punch bitch, and 290 speed outpaces most of them anyway. A bit sand weak? lol Jirachi dents most sand js. Hurricane weak from Torn-T? Jirachi easily tanks and threatens with TWave lol.

Jirachi is awesome.



This is the piviot set I refer to:

Jirachi @ Leftovers (or Occa is a decent slash on PO for Gene)
Trait: Serene Grace
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 38 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 SDef (put in HP if PS, since only for Gene) / 216 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head
- Body Slam
- Fire Punch or Filler Move (Healing Wish / Wish / Ice Punch / U-turn / Thunder Wave / Zen Headbutt / etc.)

[TyranitarAbuser]

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Trick

I absolutely love this set. I use it on my HO DragMag team, and it deals with opposing Dragons and Mamoswine very well, as well as gaining me tons of momentum. Once, I flinch haxed not only Kyurem-B and an Abomasnow, my opponent's last two mons.

I have found out that Magnezone serves as a great check to Jirachi (without rain). I run the Lefties Magnezone but you guys can have Choice Specs if you prefer the power. Any Jirachi trying to flinch hax you with Iron Head does about 2% a turn after counting lefties (8%-9% without lefties). Repeatedly mash the HP Fire button and it should be able to 2HKO a Jirachi.

P.S. It is best to have your Magnezone at full health if you want to take repeated Iron Heads. You might need it later.

[Princess Bri]

Bumping, a new Pokemon of the week will be chosen soon! Get your final thoughts posted.

[BlankZero]

Jirachi is evil, as evidenced by its Shiny form.

That's all I have to say on it.

[Organization Member XIV]

Originally Posted by Fat BlankZero

RainRachi.

I'm gonna go throw up now. I hate that thing so damn much.

I know. The general set idea is this iirc:

Jirachi@Leftovers
Calm Nature
Serene Grace
252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 SpAtk,
Thunder
Water Pulse
Iron Head
Wish/Stealth Rock

The annoyance of this thing. Do I really need to explain?

[BluhBluh]

Be faster than the damn pixie, or suffer the wrath of Iron Head.

That is all I have to say.

It doesn't help that it can pack Thunder Wave or Body Slam, which will set you up for the flinchfest.

In short, kill this thing before it paralyzes you.

[kalamadude]

Originally Posted by Fat Organization Member XIV

I know. The general set idea is this iirc:

Jirachi@Leftovers
Calm Nature
Serene Grace
252 HP, 252 SpDef, 4 SpAtk,
Thunder
Water Pulse
Iron Head
Wish/Stealth Rock

The annoyance of this thing. Do I really need to explain?

I've been running a rain stall team as of late and I can attest that facing this thing is a goddamn nightmare. Body Slam over Thunder is a real disaster as well. But with Wish and parahax, good luck ever doing anything to the bastard.

[Princess Bri]

One cool Jirachi counter is Golurk! It counters all SpDef varients bar major hax, and it only loses to the rare Water Pulse in Rain. If you really fear Jirachi so much, try it out.

[Neliel]

well, everything that takes neutral damage from iron head cant be a jirachi counter. It will flinch you to death no matter what

[Dr Ciel]

Originally Posted by Fat Princess Bri

One cool Jirachi counter is Golurk! It counters all SpDef varients bar major hax, and it only loses to the rare Water Pulse in Rain. If you really fear Jirachi so much, try it out.

Yes, this is true. I can make a claim that Golurk counters Jirachi because I use a him of my own in a hail team, and I do believe that the Defensive set 2HKOs with EQ after rocks.

[Organization Member XIV]

Originally Posted by Fat Dr Ciel

Yes, this is true. I can make a claim that Golurk counters Jirachi because I use a him of my own in a hail team, and I do believe that the Defensive set 2HKOs with EQ after rocks.

80 Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 278-330 (68.81 - 81.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

That is from Honko's calculator, and it confirms that defensive Golurk scores the 2HKO, even without rocks. However, without rocks, Golurk only has an 82.81% chance to 2HKO 252/224+ Jirachi. The calc:

80 Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jirachi: 204-242 (50.49 - 59.9%) -- 82.81% chance to 2HKO

A lesser used spread, but still important information.

[Kidogo]

I use jirachi on my most successful rain team and it is just so so dependable and useful. It's also one of the most reliable SR users in the meta as well as one of the best wish-passers. The set I use is:


Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 236 HP / 176 SDef / 96 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- Thunder
- Iron Head

This set also happens to outspeed jolly mamo and pokes aiming to beat it by 1 or 2 points--with iron head, rachi can provide a surprise way to get rid of mamo, which is all the more effective because 90% of players will leave mamo in since they don't expect you to outspeed. It also lives an eq from adamant lead mamo 67% of the time (252+ Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 360-426 (90 - 106.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO) and is guranteed to live an eq from jolly mamo (252 Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 236 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 326-386 (81.5 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).
Thunder is incredibly useful--it not only does a ton to torny-t (~65%) but it also does way more to the most common spinners than body slam does--starmie and tenta are both hit super-effective, and forry takes ~37% compared to like 5% from body slam even with the jolly nature.
An alternative moveset with protect > SR if you already have it on the team or even > iron head is possible--this way, it functions more as purely a SpD wall, which is very very useful in this meta.

[Princess Bri]

Originally Posted by Fat Organization Member XIV

80 Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 278-330 (68.81 - 81.68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

That is from Honko's calculator, and it confirms that defensive Golurk scores the 2HKO, even without rocks. However, without rocks, Golurk only has an 82.81% chance to 2HKO 252/224+ Jirachi. The calc:

80 Atk Golurk Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Jirachi: 204-242 (50.49 - 59.9%) -- 82.81% chance to 2HKO

A lesser used spread, but still important information.

Max defense Jirachi is only seen on WishCM varients commonly having Thunder and Psyshock which Golurk beats even easier.

[Gimmick]

Don't make fun of me!


Jirachi @ Choice Band
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Iron Head


After the banning of Genesect, I used this to replace the previous CB Genesect on one of my teams. It's been working brilliantly so far. Nobody expects it at all, while Zen Headbutt literally 2HKOs 252 HP Rotom-W. Since it's a rain team, I needed something that could lead reliably against Rotom-W (which almost always leads when they see a Politoed). It also does really nicely against the threats it already checks, such as Tornadus-T or Latios since they don't expect to take so much damage. The damage output from this thing isn't something to scoff at either. Less Iron Heads are needed to flinch something to death (looking at Chansey and Jellicent), meaning there's less room to recover. There are times when flinching isn't even needed to take something out, which can take a lot of stress out of that moment when one is thinking, "Please flinch. Just this once. PLEASE." So far, it's been really useful to my team.

[Princess Bri]

Scizor
Type: Bug / Steel
Base Stats: 70 HP / 130 Atk / 100 Def / 55 SpA / 80 SpD / 65 Spe
Abilities: Swarm | Technician

Notable Moves:
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Pursuit
- Quick Attack
- Iron Head

With the banning of its fellow (good) iron bug, Genesect, Scizor can finally retake the stage as one of the premiere offensive Steels in OU. While Scizor's base stats, 500 overall, may seem underwhelming, its true boon is found in its ability and STAB's. A Steel-type STAB may seem underwhelming, but boosted by Technician and a massive 130 base attack, it actually is one of the most easily spammed moves in OU. U-turn is really makes Scizor what it is, however. It's a STAB that has a good base power and gives you momentum with good coverage, sign me up! Additionally, both these STAB's are walled by steels which it has Superpower for. Swords Dance makes it an effective set-up sweeper while a Choice Band makes it a great scout. Scizor is easily strongthf.

Discuss this new Pokemon of the Week!

[RaijueR]

Scizor (F) @ Metal Coat
Trait: Technician
EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit
Scizor runs normally a multitude of sets namely offensive Swords Dance, Choice Band, and defensive Swords Dance, but this set is meant bluff choice items and trap Psychic and Ghost types when they try to switch out of a Bullet Punch they think is Choiced But will get hit with a Pursuit soon after. 76 speed Evs are there to outspeed 156 HP Choice Banded Tyranitar, 252 attack for max attack Adamant, and 180 HP is to allow Scizor to has as much bulk as it can get from the remaining Evs. Metal Coat is the Item of Choice over Expert belt as while Expert Belt could work well in theory, but actually is a bad choice in practice considering on how Scizor OHKOs the things it is supposed to KO, so as such Metal Coat is the better choice since it buffs up the power of bullet punch by 20% which is only 10% off of Life Orb(which is 30%)which allows Scizor to dent pokemon that are neutral to its Steel STAB Bullet Punch.

Some Calcs
252 Atk Metal Coat Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Latias: 47.18% - 55.81%
2-3 hits to KO

252 Atk Metal Coat Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Latios: 51.66% - 60.93%
2 hits to KO

252 Atk Metal Coat Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Landorus: 44.51% - 52.66%
2-3 hits to KO

252 Atk Metal Coat Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Tornadus-T: 52.17% - 61.54%
2 hits to KO

Same Calcs as Above, but with Stealth rock
252 Atk Metal Coat Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Tornadus-T: 52.17% - 61.54%
Entry hazards damage: 74
After entry hazards: 230 - 258 (76.92% - 86.29%)
2 hits to KO

252 Atk Metal Coat Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Latios: 51.66% - 60.93%
Entry hazards damage: 37
After entry hazards: 193 - 221 (63.91% - 73.18%)
2 hits to KO

252 Atk Metal Coat Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Latias: 47.18% - 55.81%
Entry hazards damage: 37
After entry hazards: 179 - 205 (59.47% - 68.11%)
2 hits to KO

252 Atk Metal Coat Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Landorus: 44.38% - 52.5%
Entry hazards damage: 40
After entry hazards: 182 - 208 (56.88% - 65%)
2 hits to KO

[BlankZero]

Interesting take on Metal Coat>LO, but LO is still going to be superior on Scizor. SD doubles attack, meaning LO does more damage overall. Also, since Bullet Punch is priority, STAB, and Tech Boosted, plus unresisted by most of the metagame, it gets more out of LO than Coat, and being priority, makes it that much harder to Revenge Kill.

Choice Band works on this principle as well.

[Dark Fallen Angel]

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band Trait: Technician
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Quick Attack


This is my favorite set, Scizor is a good revenge killer in general, with 2 priority moves to use: Bullet Punch and Quick Attack. I don't use Pursuit because on my team, Tyranitar already does this job. U-Turn and Superpower are there for obvious reasons. The former scouts, and the latter OHKOes Heatran and Magnezone thinking that they can come in for free.


The reason why I use 48 Speed EVs is to outspeed minimum speed Politoed, and a bit of other uninvested base 70s, so I can use U-Turn on them and switch to the appropriate resist. For example, Choice Specs Politoed that think that can use Hydro Pump to obliterate Scizor just take a lot of damage from U-Turn until I switch to Water Absorb Politoed, which proceeds to cripple the next switch-in with Will-O-Wisp.


I've used an offensive Swords Dance set on the past, but with HP EVs, an Adamant nature and Leftovers as the item, because my Scizor was just dying too quickly.

[Hugin]

Originally Posted by Fat BlankZero

Interesting take on Metal Coat>LO, but LO is still going to be superior on Scizor. SD doubles attack, meaning LO does more damage overall. Also, since Bullet Punch is priority, STAB, and Tech Boosted, plus unresisted by most of the metagame, it gets more out of LO than Coat, and being priority, makes it that much harder to Revenge Kill.

Choice Band works on this principle as well.

The point was to bluff a Choice item, which means no Life Orb. I'd prefer Lum, since Para and Burn are such a good way to cripple Scizor, but that's really user's choice.

[BlankZero]

Originally Posted by Fat Hugin

The point was to bluff a Choice item, which means no Life Orb. I'd prefer Lum, since Para and Burn are such a good way to cripple Scizor, but that's really user's choice.

I see that now. Not a bad idea. I may try that on my own Scizor, but with Lum or Occa berry.

[RaijueR]

Originally Posted by Fat BlankZero

I see that now. Not a bad idea. I may try that on my own Scizor, but with Lum or Occa berry.

whatever floats your boat, but I perfer metal coat due to the damage increase it gives for Scizors Bullet Punch for bluffing a Choice Band.

[Jimbon]

Scizor is quite an interesting Pokemon, especially with the advent of Genesect in the first couple months of B/W2, which made Scizor seem like the second best user of U-Turn in OU. Scizor did have a lot of notable advantages over Genesect, and Scizor is still a solid and well established Pokemon in OU that most teams should have an answer for. Scizor in general is pretty hard to counter similarly to Genesect, in the sense that you can pair it with something that beats it's counters. This is especially easy when Scizor's most common set, the Choice Band set, draws in Scizor's counters, and most of the time you're gonna be U-Turning out anyway and you can bring in something else to deal with the Gliscor or whatever at hand. If you play the Choice Band set well, Scizor can essentially disregard its counters if you pair it with another offensive teammate, which is especially hard to deal with when hazards are up.

I've been seeing a hell of a lot more of the offensive Swords Dance set recently, whereas before it was really all Choice Band. It's incredibly potent as a sweeper, as well as being able to make better use of Scizor's other coverage moves and given that offensive Swords Dance tends to run a lot of speed, it can now outspeed some of it's most common checks such as Heatran and Rotom-W. The Metal Coat set is very interesting, but when running Metal Coat Scizor I like to use Swords Dance / U-Turn / Bullet Punch / Roost, as you can freely spam Bullet Punch or U-Turn faking a choice set, while you can sweep late game when Scizor's counters are down and you only really need a free switch to do so. I think Metal Coat 4 attacks is just a poor man's Choice Band set. While you may be able to switch up moves, the majority of things that switch directly into Scizor can outspeed it and beat it, while you still hit notably weaker than Choice Band, you lack recovery and your chances of sweeping are that much lower.

[Lee]

a few problems with bluffing CB on Scizor

1) anybody half-competent will realise the huge damage discrepancy between MC Bullet Punch and CB Bullet Punch.

MC BP vs 4/0 Latios = 51.66% - 60.93%
CB BP vs 4/0 Latios = 64.57% - 75.83%

minimum damage CB BP outdamages max damage MC BP in just about every situation, the only way you'll keep up the facade is if you OHKO the opponent.

2) it's U-turn that you'll be using more often, but Bug Plate suffers from the same problem in damage discrepancy.

3) most importantly for me - there's no real reward. something like Expert Belt Landorus can bluff being locked into Earthquake and then OHKO Gliscor with HP Ice. What is Scizor gaining by bluffing being locked into Bullet Punch as the opponent switches to Skarmory? Bluffing being locked into U-turn as you...um...switch out? And after using Superpower you're sitting at 262 Atk so it's probably best if you just switch out anyway. Sure, there are a few situations where you might surprise something but it's not consistent enough to use a subpar item on Scizor. Choice Band Scizor is the ultimate set for me, it can't be bettered.