Theorymon: Don't troll me (give me the move that fits me)

[kiddu]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

Most of your post was taken up with name-calling and stuff

I'm pretty sure my post was a lot longer than 2 lines.

and the points you made I didn't see a point answering them because they are truly terrible..

Just because you can't counter them doesn't make them terrible.

The only points you made were:
"Said design point being the 3D models spinning. Duh." Not the whole 3D model, just most of it's body, like Porygon or magnemite. You must be so far in denile you keep missing the times when we make this point time and time again!

Like how I've explained twice now how it's not the same thing? Yeah, sooo keep missing it. >_>

"You can breathe on purpose. But when you're focusing on something else that doesn't mean you stop. Same with the spins."

As I said, I do occasionally stop breathing for a little bit!

Which you have to focus to do, which makes it irrelevant to the point I was making (unless you're saying this happens without you trying, in which case you have much worse things to worry about than posting here).

You can wave your hand on purpose, if you want to when you focus on something else you might not stop. Is that the same too?

Considering that your original argument was "Steelix's spinning is natural, and if it's on purpose, then how does it focus on other things at the same time," then I'd say yes, it still counters you.

Originally Posted by Fat celever

well, it's not like the only factor of a pokemon getting a move is because of it's design. That is just the point you two are focusing on.

Because you focused on it in the first place with Lunatone & Solrock while simultaneously saying it didn't work for Steelix.

Originally Posted by Fat celever

I do know that your post is rubbish, since that is the reason he is saying Porygon and Magnemite can't learn it which was also what we said as a counter-argument so either way we win.

Excuse me, I haven't been arguing against Porygon or Magnemite learning the move (I'm actually in favor of Magnezone getting it, since it's basically a freakin' flying saucer). Alice was the one who brought them up. All I did was point out how Alice's comparison doesn't work.

it's 11 where I am

ESL, then. Now I understand why you're not getting it.

[The Agonist]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

Tentacruel can spin his whole body.

According to...?

Hitmontrio, well, it's not like the only factor of a pokemon getting a move is because of it's design.

That's exactly what you're arguing ffs.

Delibird, above, and Game Freak might have not wanted it to get out-classed by articuno completely.
And Tyrogue look at the hitmontrio.

Yes, because GF has ever given a shit about whether one Pokémon completely outclasses another. Also, implying that because Delibird can learn Rapid Spin that automatically gives it a niche over Articuno.

Design isn't everything in pokemon learning moves, the hitmontrio benefit greatly from it (whereas Steelix won't) and Delibird is an odd-ball.

Clearly you didn't bother reading the original post about why Steelix would benifit from Rapid Spin.

I don't know, I'm not game freak, but I do know that your post is rubbish

Exactly how is my post rubbish, other than the fact that you can't come up with a valid argument for it, and therefore are trying to dismiss it?

since that is the reason he is saying Porygon and Magnemite can't learn it which was also what we said as a counter-argument so either way we win. Well, I suppose it's I now, Alice left...

Magnemite only spins its magnets, and Porygon... well, Rapid Spin Porygon would actually be pretty cool. However there isn't really any reason for it to learn the move, unlike Steelix, who has been depicted spinning in almost all of its animations, and additionally, on the anime.

[celever]

Originally Posted by Fat kiddu

I'm pretty sure my post was a lot longer than 2 lines.

I only put 2 lines of your post...

Just because you can't counter them doesn't make them terrible.

I did counter them further down. So actually they were just terrible points.

Like how I've explained twice now how it's not the same thing? Yeah, sooo keep missing it. >_>

But you deign to say how it's not the same thing. Magnemite has 1 circle and 2 magnets as an out-line, the magnets spin and Magnemite can spin it's whole body including it's head. Rapid spin on Magnemite suit him a hell of a lot better than Steelix...

Which you have to focus to do, which makes it irrelevant to the point I was making (unless you're saying this happens without you trying, in which case you have much worse things to worry about than posting here).

Lol. XD Of course I do have to focus partly to do it, I have to focus partly to breathe because a part of my brain will always be focusing on doing it, just like Steelix's brain will focus minorly on spinning. So, everything you or your pokemon (theoretically) do require some amount of focus, however minimal.

Considering that your original argument was "Steelix's spinning is natural, and if it's on purpose, then how does it focus on other things at the same time," then I'd say yes, it still counters you.

Nope. You missed the point entirely...

Because you focused on it in the first place with Lunatone & Solrock while simultaneously saying it didn't work for Steelix.

I put it in my original post about Lunatone and Solrock! I put it in a small section of one post! Of course, this was the only part of the post that you quoted and countered with Steelix, the rest didn't matter!

I truly am going to bed now though. I will see you in the morning where we will hopefully finish it! (Please not another debate like whether Shy guy is Mario or Yoshi series, that lasted 4 days...)

[Present]

Guys, this thread is about moves YOU think a certain pokemon should have been given by gamefreak. Nothing more or less. So as you are most likely not going to agree, leave it at that. Please don't get upset about each other. Sure, you are allowed to say what you think, but keep it nice and friendly.

Anyway, on the topic of rapid spin, I think that ferroseed should have gotten it. Mostly based on its animation, where it spins around.

The first one spins around so fast that its sprite starts tripping.

[kiddu]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

I only put 2 lines of your post...

Exactly, which doesn't qualify as "most" of my post.

I did counter them further down. So actually they were just terrible points.

1. You only replied to about half my post, and 2. you didn't counter them.

But you deign to say how it's not the same thing. Magnemite has 1 circle and 2 magnets as an out-line, the magnets spin and Magnemite can spin it's whole body including it's head. Rapid spin on Magnemite suit him a hell of a lot better than Steelix...

Well, I already said that I support Magnezone getting it, but admittedly that was more towards Magneton (admittedly I somehow missed the "mite" part) since only its bits spin in its model.

Lol. XD Of course I do have to focus partly to do it, I have to focus partly to breathe because a part of my brain will always be focusing on doing it, just like Steelix's brain will focus minorly on spinning. So, everything you or your pokemon (theoretically) do require some amount of focus, however minimal.

I'm only talking about conscious focus here. Subconscious focus doesn't count since it qualifies as natural. For something to be on purpose it by definition requires conscious focus.

Nope. You missed the point entirely...

Nope, still you.

I put it in my original post about Lunatone and Solrock! I put it in a small section of one post! Of course, this was the only part of the post that you quoted and countered with Steelix, the rest didn't matter!

No, it didn't, since the rest was more about how they'd use it as opposed to why. So...way to repeat what I said?



...Oh, derp me, I could have settled this with one sentence if I'd just bothered to do some research:

If Steelix can't spin or produce a whirlwind then explain how it uses Gyro Ball (yes I realize Magnemite gets this too), Rollout, and best of all, Twister.

[Jimera0]

Wait a moment people. Back up. We're seriously getting into a flame war over whether or not Steelix deserves Rapid Spin or not.

This is incredibly silly.

Still there are a couple points I would like to point out quickly before moving on, mainly because they were direct replies to me that were completely wrong and I just can't let that shit stand. It's like a compulsion; someone tells me I'm wrong when I know for a FACT I'm not is just something I HAVE to address.

One, Rapid Spin is a contact move, hence why I said "rotate and smack into opponents". because I'm pretty sure that's what rapid spin is, seeing as a whirlwind doesn't make contact. It could produce a whirlwind too, sure. But contact is clearly part of it.

Two, there's a difference between a Pokemon being shown to use a move in the anime it cannot normally learn, and between showing how a move would look in real life. We have other sources (and more concrete sources) for a Pokemon learning moves. We DON'T have a lot of other sources to show what a move looks like, especially with specific Pokemon. We got the in game animation, which usually doesn't give us much. And we have the Anime, manga, etc. How else are we supposed to know about Pokemon movement? All we have besides that is our imaginations.

And btw, I made that comment about Ferroseed and Ferrothorn not getting it but everyone was so absorbed in the talk of Steelix no one noticed. That's an indication right there of how derailed this topic is getting, so let's try to keep it on track eh?

I'll restate my other point too just to try and get things on track.

Garchomp isn't the only Pokemon that doesn't get fly that really should. What about Scyther and other flying bugs? I think this comic really sends the point home:



LIKE SERIOUSLY WTF GAMEFREAK?!??!?!

[kiddu]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

Wait a moment people. Back up. We're seriously getting into a flame war over whether or not Steelix deserves Rapid Spin or not.

This is incredibly silly.

...This is a flame war? I'm just discussing it.

they were direct replies to me that were completely wrong and I just can't let that shit stand. It's like a compulsion; someone tells me I'm wrong when I know for a FACT I'm not is just something I HAVE to address.

......Also this.

[atsync]

Along with the flying bugs, I've always thought that Gligar and Gliscor should be able to learn Fly. I know that technically they move around by gliding but it would make more sense that trying to balance on the back of a flying Hoothoot.

[The Cicada]

Originally Posted by Fat atsync

Along with the flying bugs, I've always thought that Gligar and Gliscor should be able to learn Fly. I know that technically they move around by gliding but it would make more sense that trying to balance on the back of a flying Hoothoot.

Hoothoot picks you up with its claws, doesnt it?

[atsync]

Originally Posted by Fat The Cicada

Hoothoot picks you up with its claws, doesnt it?

Well even that scenario makes less sense than gliding around the place on Gliscor's back!

[The Cicada]

Originally Posted by Fat atsync

Well even that scenario makes less sense than gliding around the place on Gliscor's back!

Hoothoot would be flying tho, and gliscor would be gliding. There is no move in the game called Glide, is there?

[Alice in Strings]

Originally Posted by Fat The Agonist

Basically your argument consists of "it can't spin its head, and therefore, can't use Rapid Spin." If that's your stance, then explain how the hell Delibird, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Tyrogue, Tentacruel, and various others use the move.

I always pictured Delibird just twirling his bag really friggen fast when it uses Rapid Spin. It just amuses me for some reason.

This is also one of those times where I didn't do my research before posting. I really like Steelix (I had one in my Diamond run named...Diamondkin that ran the Four Fangs (Fire,Ice,Thunder Fang and Crunch), and I didn't know that Rapid Spin was a contact move (again, research that I really should do all the time instead of lolduringargument). I guess I can picture Steelix performing an awkward Rapid Spin, I guess.

Also, no Bug type can learn Fly because you'll obviously squish them if you try to ride them. I mean, isn't it obvious?~

[kiddu]

Originally Posted by Fat Alice in Strings

Also, no Bug type can learn Fly because you'll obviously squish them if you try to ride them. I mean, isn't it obvious?~

*imagines doing this with Arceus-Bug, even though it's obviously an exception*

XDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXD

Someone should draw up a comic of it. XD

[atsync]

Originally Posted by Fat The Cicada

Hoothoot would be flying tho, and gliscor would be gliding. There is no move in the game called Glide, is there?

At risk of overthinking this, gliding is still a form of flight. It's flying without thrust to minimize energy use, but it's still flying. In fact when you think about it, many of the bird pokemon that can learn Fly are based on birds that glide through the air at least some of the time.

[The Cicada]

Originally Posted by Fat atsync

At risk of overthinking this, gliding is still a form of flight. It's flying without thrust to minimize energy use, but it's still flying. In fact when you think about it, many of the bird pokemon that can learn Fly are based on birds that glide through the air at least some of the time.

Gliding is not flying. If gliding was flying, it would be called flying and not gliding. Same goes for floating/levitating.

[Chou Toshio]

Guys, there was a reason why I outlined so many factors in the OP.

Try to keep your move suggestions to Pokemon that really make sense over as many factors as possible. Ability is a really good one to pay attention to. If Ability works well with the move (Technician + Priority for instance), that's a really good indicator said move belongs in the thread.

Whether a certain sprite wobbles or spins... much less so...




Now back on topic:

+Acrobat + Fling

Type / Stats: Acrobat is a great Flying attack Swellow could use.
Ability: Flame Orb has synergy with Guts, and Flame Orb has synergy with Fling, which has synergy with Acrobat
Design: Acrobat is for fast and agile Flying types. Need I say more? Fling works here less, but it's not impossible considering Swellow could fly and fling the orb with its legs-- dive bomber style.
Need: Fling would make Rock/Steel types like Golem and Aggron think twice before switching into Swellow-- they'd still perfectly counter it, but Swellow would be able to seriously disable them. Furthermore, Acrobat would then let Swellow go nuts with its Flying STAB without taking the added recoil of Brave Bird.


Swellow
@Flame Orb
-Protect
-Fling
-Facade
-Acrobat

[Hemp Man]

Imagine Aqua Jet Gyarados.

Drizzile would get a Techitan-esque boost.
Choice Band to raise Gyarados attack through the roof
Moxie would make sure AJ gets stronger with every kill.

It'd be like a Water version of Scizor...

[Organization Member XIV]

Originally Posted by Fat kiddu

I'm pretty sure my post was a lot longer than 2 lines.



Just because you can't counter them doesn't make them terrible.



Like how I've explained twice now how it's not the same thing? Yeah, sooo keep missing it. >_>



Which you have to focus to do, which makes it irrelevant to the point I was making (unless you're saying this happens without you trying, in which case you have much worse things to worry about than posting here).



Considering that your original argument was "Steelix's spinning is natural, and if it's on purpose, then how does it focus on other things at the same time," then I'd say yes, it still counters you.



Because you focused on it in the first place with Lunatone & Solrock while simultaneously saying it didn't work for Steelix.



Excuse me, I haven't been arguing against Porygon or Magnemite learning the move (I'm actually in favor of Magnezone getting it, since it's basically a freakin' flying saucer). Alice was the one who brought them up. All I did was point out how Alice's comparison doesn't work.



ESL, then. Now I understand why you're not getting it.

Originally Posted by Fat celever

I put it in my original post about Lunatone and Solrock! I put it in a small section of one post! Of course, this was the only part of the post that you quoted and countered with Steelix, the rest didn't matter!

I truly am going to bed now though. I will see you in the morning where we will hopefully finish it! (Please not another debate like whether Shy guy is Mario or Yoshi series, that lasted 4 days...)

Originally Posted by Fat kiddu

Exactly, which doesn't qualify as "most" of my post.



1. You only replied to about half my post, and 2. you didn't counter them.



Well, I already said that I support Magnezone getting it, but admittedly that was more towards Magneton (admittedly I somehow missed the "mite" part) since only its bits spin in its model.



I'm only talking about conscious focus here. Subconscious focus doesn't count since it qualifies as natural. For something to be on purpose it by definition requires conscious focus.



Nope, still you.



No, it didn't, since the rest was more about how they'd use it as opposed to why. So...way to repeat what I said?



...Oh, derp me, I could have settled this with one sentence if I'd just bothered to do some research:

If Steelix can't spin or produce a whirlwind then explain how it uses Gyro Ball (yes I realize Magnemite gets this too), Rollout, and best of all, Twister.

Can we stop the Rapid Spin or no Spin war for Steelix please. It is really annoying, and your energy could be used to argue some more obvious or viable cases. For example

Snorlax@Slack Off

OMG Trollfreak are you really that trollish?! GF has given half the universe Slack Off, yet they don't give it to the fucking obese lazy whatever Snorlax is supposed to be. Slowbro, Hippowdon, and INFERNAPE have Slack Off but Snorlax doesn't?! TF, >.>

[Chou Toshio]

Yeah, Snorlax definitely should have Slack Off, totally forgot about that!

Snorlax
@Leftovers
Thick Fat
-Body Slam / Earthquake
-Crunch
-Slack Off
-Curse

Slack Off would give snorlax the ability to curse and heal while finally managing to keep 2 coverage moves without sleeping helplessly for ages.

[kiddu]

Well, I mentioned it...might as well go all in...

+ Rapid Spin

Type / Stats: Anybody who's used this in-game knows how bulky it is. 70/115/90 defenses, an impressive 13 resistances, and only 3 weaknesses make it a great team supporter. The downside is that those 3 weaknesses are to common attacks (though the worst of them can be fixed with Magnet Rise or patched with Air Balloon) and a lack of self-healing.
Ability: It can use Sturdy to ensure at least one attack, but more commonly it uses Magnet Pull to trap opposing Steels and normally get at least one KO. This would give it the ability to launch unblockable Rapid Spins, since the opponent would be unable to switch out and there aren't any Ghost/Steel types around yet. It would also mean that a trapped Ferrothorn or especially Forretress wouldn't be able to spam entry hazards at Zone as it kills them, as they would simply be spun away.
Design: As I mentioned earlier, it's a freaking flying saucer. And it can use Gyro Ball.
Need: All Magnezone really needs to get its job done is its Electric STAB, Hidden Power, and sometimes Substitute if not choiced. Rapid Spin adds on to its potential as a support (yes, I'm looking at you, DragMag) by removing entry hazards for its teammates, while at the same time potentially trapping, setting up on, and removing the hazard setters themselves.

Something like...

Magnezone @Leftovers
Magnet Pull
-Substitute
-Charge Beam/Thunderbolt
-Hidden Power Fire/Ice
-Rapid Spin

Originally Posted by Fat Organization Member XIV

Can we stop the Rapid Spin or no Spin war for Steelix please.

Can we stop calling it a war? >_>

[Chou Toshio]

damn, rapid spin Magnezone is a nice one. Wish I'd thought of it!

[UllarWarlord]

+ Snarl

Type: It's a Dark type, that fits the bill.
Ability: lol
Design: It's a freaking dragon of darkness with three heads. That learns Roar and Hyper Voice. By level-up.
Need: Little to none...but it makes sense.

Seriously, when I heard Snarl was released in B2W2, Hydreigon was the second Pokemon I thought of that should learn it (after Zoroark). Maybe it's a mistake, like Bulk up Heracross. BUT STILL. UNACCEPTABLE.

[Alice in Strings]

Originally Posted by Fat UllarWarlord

+ Snarl

Type: It's a Dark type, that fits the bill.
Ability: lol
Design: It's a freaking dragon of darkness with three heads. That learns Roar and Hyper Voice. By level-up.
Need: Little to none...but it makes sense.

Seriously, when I heard Snarl was released in B2W2, Hydreigon was the second Pokemon I thought of that should learn it (after Zoroark). Maybe it's a mistake, like Bulk up Heracross. BUT STILL. UNACCEPTABLE.

Snarl is reserved for the dog-like Pokemon, iirc. Arcanine gets it, for example.

[UllarWarlord]

Originally Posted by Fat Alice in Strings

Snarl is reserved for the dog-like Pokemon, iirc. Arcanine gets it, for example.

Tell that to Crawdaunt.

EDIT: And Shiftry. and Tyrannitar. and Bisharp. and...I really feel I shouldn't go on.

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat UllarWarlord

Tell that to Crawdaunt.

EDIT: And Shiftry. and Tyrannitar. and Bisharp. and...I really feel I shouldn't go on.

Likely dogs and intimidating pokemon. Yeah, Hydreigon makes a good case (not that it really cares eventually). Stuff like Lillipup and Shinx gets Snarl >.>

also, Thunderbolt Reuniclus? I mean, it learns Thunder, so really why can't it learn the weaker version?