Ubers Survivor

[blitzlefan]

Mewtwo

Immunity = can't be chosen for elimination.

edit: good point. im... pretty goddamn stupid XD. immunity can A) be scrapped, or B) have an immunity round + elimination round (2x the scenarios) and be immune during the elimination scenario, or C) just immunity for round after the current

[Daggerfall]

Originally Posted by Fat blitzlefan

Mewtwo

Immunity = can't be chosen for elimination.

Well, I know that. It's just that wouldn't it be pointless to have immunity on a challenge that you've shown yourself to be the best at? What I meant was how it would be used, since it's pointless at the moment.

[IcyMan28]

According to the OP, Immunity should be given to the pokemon you think is most likely to win the particular challenge, in which case I vote Dialga. The steel-typing gives it an edge over Palkia, who has literally no common sets that will be able to bypass the time lord. ScarfDialga wins against every Palkia set 90% of the time thanks to Draco Meteor, including opposing ScarfPalkia thanks to its natural bulk.

None of the other candidates have nearly as good a success rate.

EDIT: Shouldn't the pokemon granted immunity be protected from elimination during the NEXT challenge? If it gets voted for immunity, it obviously doesn't need protection from elimination from that same challenge.

[ChuckHades]

Dialga

The scarf set cannot lose to Palkia in any scenario, so my vote goes to him.

Regarding immunity, I actually think starting next round we should scrap it. It doesn't do anything to help the immune mon (as it wouldn't be eliminated anyway), and I can't think of any obvious benefits we could give them. Overall, there's no need for it, and just lengthens the voting process out. However I'm fully for it if someone can come up with a reason to keep it.

[rileydelete]

Thanks for the update, Daggerfall-won't happen again. Immunity should make one immune from being voted off. In addition, you should give the Pokemon with immunity some additional perk in the next round. It's very survivor/reality competition-like to give a bonus to the winner of a first round win.

[tehy]

After reading all this, it seems like immunity should just go. If not, next-round immunity's fine, and is the most viable way. As for the actual advantage, the trouble would be implementation. After all, with so many factors, how do you decide how much that advantage factors in? What do you even describe it as? "Medium boost? Upwards Tick? Etc..."Do you just make it really vague and leave it up to the voters? The simplest way would be to take the discussed sets, and factor in win %, then multiply it by usage stat %. If it's 0%, we could either work something out, or just exclude those sets by virtue of 0% usage. But that's a lot of math, and also doesn't allow for individual interpretation, so yeah. There's a bunch of weird stuff i thought of, the best being SR on the opponent's side, preferred weather, one of any field effect, or immunity to misses/crits/move side effects.

[mantzik32]

Dialga, easily. There's really no doubt about it since even Palkia's gimmick sets are beaten by the standard Scarf Dialga.

Mewtwo gets an honourable mention for overcoming type disadvantage.

[ssbbm]

Dialga

scarf wrecks

[Mr.lol]

According to the OP, Immunity should be given to the pokemon you think is most likely to win the particular challenge, in which case I vote Dialga. The steel-typing gives it an edge over Palkia, who has literally no common sets that will be able to bypass the time lord. ScarfDialga wins against every Palkia set 90% of the time thanks to Draco Meteor, including opposing ScarfPalkia thanks to its natural bulk.

None of the other candidates have nearly as good a success rate.

I second a vote for Dialga as Scarf seems nearly impossible to beat, but I think Giratina might be the best runner up.

It sounds stupid until you realize Giratina-a can use Haban Berry. Yeah Draco Meteor doesn't OHKO the bulkiest of variants but Shadow Sneak can pick up the KO, if its doing something weird like running maximum Special Defense and HP then you can literally fully invest in your attacking stats and pummel it with Outrage.

What's funny though is this set was viable last gen when "leads" existed X_X.

As for the immunity issue, I thought you guys just extended it so that it couldn't be taken down the round after.

Also I'm not sure if someone else posted this but Zekrom does get a fire-type move, HP Fire.

[Daggerfall]

Votes total:
Dialga: 6
Mewtwo: 1 (and an honourable mention)
Giratina-O: .5

Therefore, Dialga is granted immunity for the round! As for the immunity last round, Zekrom cannot be considered for elimination due to winning the previous round. Now, for a recap of the contestants an their matchups:
Dialga --> Palkia
Groudon --> Kyogre
Zekrom --> Reshiam
Giratina-O --> Giratina
Manaphy --> Ho-oh
Mewtwo --> Darkrai

Remember that there is absolutely no support or previous damage on either combatant.

Voting for elimination will take place on Monday, January 14th, at 6 P.M. EST. However, everyone is free to discuss on which contestant they feel should be eliminated.
As for immunity, I decided that it would be best to make it next-round immunity. This is due to immunity being a part of Survivor. Any complaints? If so, please feel free to voice them.

[ssbbm]

palkia should lose because it can't beat dialga...?

[Daggerfall]

Originally Posted by Fat ssbbm

palkia should lose because it can't beat dialga...?

I meant which contestant (Groudon,Giratina-O,Manaphy, Mewtwo) should be eliminated this round.

[tehy]

It's probably got to be groudon, right? Kyogre can crush him with its specs set almost no matter what, either ice beaming slower ones or surfing faster ones. Considering specs is a really standard set, it's not really a stretch either. I believe calcs earlier in the thread confirm this.

CB ho-oh might defeat manaphy, but then again, bulky sets aren't entirely uncommon on manaphy, especially physical defense on CM sets, and there's probably a viable spread that tanks a hit and counter-Ko's. And it can also outspeed ho-oh if it's ev'd to do so. Maybe manaphy/ho-oh is one to watch, though.

Giratina and giratina-O is just a ***ing mess, because they're both so brutally similar. I'd have to ask, though-is there a spread commonly used that can take any hit from a giratina, draco meteor it, and then shadow sneak it for the KO?

And sashrai beats mewtwo pretty well, except for Lumtwo.

Man, forget what i said-this is an open race. So this should be fun, although i think groudon's the worst off right now. (Really fast yache berry set??)

Oh yeah, and let's not even touch zekrom/reshiram-zekrom has the slight advantage because it can't miss, but that just makes it 45/55, still almost a coin toss.

[ChuckHades]

The difference between Manaphy and Ho-oh is really dependent on the RNG. I don't have time to run the calcs again, but I concluded that in basically every scenario, the victor depended on lucky damage rolls. Even CB Ho-oh couldn't consistently break through bulky Manaphy, and the damage done by LO recoil and BB recoil, coupled with damage from surf meant both contestants had a chance to win.

I agree with Tehy, the Giratinas are so hard to separate. I would probably give a slight edge to Giratina A though, because it always beats the physical variants of Giratina O with Will-O-Wisp, and careful Giratina A can stall out special Giratina O (It can rest off of Draco Meteor, and Dragon Pulse is only doing 42.14 - 50.09% to it). The sub CM Giratina O is a little more problematic for Giratina A, as I assume it cannot simply phaze it out, which is Giratina A's usual answer for set up pokes. However, Dragon Tail will always break Max HP Giratina O's sub, doing 26.19 - 30.95%, meaning Giratina O cannot set up reliably. Defensive variants will be creamed by Giratina A. Overall, Giratina A wins.

Mewtwo has a decent method of beating Darkrai, although Sashrai is a huge problem. Still, the fact that Mewtwo can OHKO Darkrai and outspeed gives it a decent chance of survival.

The same cannot be said for poor Groudon. Specs Ogre completely destroys even Max HP with Ice Beam, and can take any hit that isn't Adamant CB EQ (which still only has a 75% chance to kill). As it's unlikely that Groudon will outspeed though, I have to say he's the most likely to go.

[mantzik32]

Groudon is the only one who simply cannot beat Kyogre in any realistic scenario. He'll have to go...

Bulky tail glow Manaphy handles Ho-oh quite well. It can invest in speed and bulk since tail glow will give it enough power to KO Ho-oh the next turn. Even if Ho-oh managed to get a high damage roll to KO, it would fall to BB recoil. Manaphy naturally outspeeds Ho-oh, so it will get enough damage on Ho-oh (specs surf can't even OHKO) to the point where BB recoil will take him out.

Zekrom vs. Reshiram? There really isn't anything else to say.

I'd say rest + sleep talk + calm mind Gira-O can beat Gira-A reliably. Mixed attacker has problems though. Very close but in most cases Gira-A will have the advantage since the above Gira-O set isn't as common.

[Daggerfall]

Voting for the elimination round begins now! Votes must be in bold or they will not count. Voting will continue until Thursday, January 17th, at 6 P.M. Reasoning is encouraged, but not required. Only consider realistic situations when considering your votes, please. This means no silly things like Yache Groudon. Of the remaining contestants, only the following may be voted for:
Groudon
Giratina-O
Manaphy
Mewtwo

Zekrom has immunity and Dialga was proven to be best at this challenge.

I have to admit, I'm impressed that Manaphy has held on this long. It's been neither exceptional nor poor at any challenges thus far.

[mantzik32]

Groudon is one of my favourites... Oh well.

I'm going to build a team based around Manaphy. It'll probably be really mediocre in practice but I feel like giving it a chance.

[blitzlefan]

Groudon
Sayonara. Not all that much to explain... Kyogre's has weather and boosted water STABS like Water Spout/Hydro Pump/Surf if it is slower (eg Specs) and still nails Groudon with Ice Beam if it is faster (eg Scarf). Don't really see how Groudon can reliably beat Kyogre 1 on 1.

[tehy]

Groudon

I hate to jump on this bandwagon, but kyogre sort of demolishes him, even with the CB set advantage, the other stuff is all like different items and speed ties and similar pokemon. Kyogre just has that SE stab and coverage move.

[Kebabe]

Groudon

The other contestants has a ok chance to win their matchups( at lest 50/50), Groudon has a very slim chance as even gimmicky sets has a hard time against almost every kyogre set.

Its sad that Groudon has to leave this early as it has a far bigger impact on the metagame then for example Zekrom or Manaphy.

[ChuckHades]

Groudon

How in the name of Mew has Manaphy outlasted Groudon?

[Daggerfall]

Originally Posted by Fat ChuckHades

Groudon

How in the name of Mew has Manaphy outlasted Groudon?

I'm personally surprised that Manaphy has even outlasted Ho-oh. I was personally hoping that Manaphy would leave this round, since it jams a challenge that I managed to come up with. Still, it's not like I'm going to specifically make a challenge just to eliminate it, so hopefully the next challenge leads to its defeat.

[ssbbm]

Groudon

[lisalo]

I have an idea for the next challenge, where can I say it?

Also, Groudon.

[Daggerfall]

You can send it to me in a private message. If it's good enough (as in, not the second challenge) then I'll add it to the list. Also, your vote needs to be in bold to count. Not that it really matters at this rate, though.