The Missing Gene - Page 2

EtherDrive · Dec 2nd, 2012, 1:13:08 PM

Normal stabs are quite useless in this metagame and how does he do special sweeping better with a far less base SpA and less coverage?

Earth Power
Hidden Power (which doesn't benefit from sheer force)
U-turn.

Explain.

Stathakis · Dec 2nd, 2012, 1:31:08 PM

landorus only needs earth power, hidden power, and focus blast. weaken rotom and you can basically sweep from there

doesn't take LO recoil, much bulkier than p-z, and has useful resistances. also he gets to use a stab attack

mostly just resistances and bulk though. makes setting up the rock polish much easier. genesect had good resistances, landorus has good resistances. p-z has jack shit

Qwertyuiop · Dec 2nd, 2012, 1:40:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat EtherDrive

Normal stabs are quite useless in this metagame and how does he do special sweeping better with a far less base SpA and less coverage?

Earth Power
Hidden Power (which doesn't benefit from sheer force)
U-turn.

Explain.

You forget about Focus Blast and Psychic, specially the former, which while unreliable, is incredibly powerful thanks to the SF+LO boost. Download while great is not as reliable as Sheer Force. Moreover, P-Z can't really come in on any common attack, unlike Land-I which also can't be paralyzed and is unaffected by Spikes (and Toxic Spikes). Its bulk is also less than that of Lando-I (85/70 vs 89/90) meaning neutral priority like CB Scizor Bullet Punch can kill it after ~2 LO recoil rounds + SR.

Calcs to highlight difference:

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Porygon-Z: 217-256 (65.95 - 77.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 177-208 (55.48 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

EDIT: @flea; It's okay as the EV total adds up to 510 (the permitted limit), though the extra 2 EVs do nothing.

flea · Dec 2nd, 2012, 2:26:25 PM

Just as an FYI, the scarf Nidoking and scarf Jirachi posted in the OP both have illegal extra EVs, it should be 4 SpD on the Jirachi and 4 HP on the Nidoking instead of 6

malomyotismon · Dec 2nd, 2012, 2:43:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat flea

Just as an FYI, the scarf Nidoking and scarf Jirachi posted in the OP both have illegal extra EVs, it should be 4 SpD on the Jirachi and 4 HP on the Nidoking instead of 6

Why illegal a Pokemon can have 510 eves

TheStriker · Dec 2nd, 2012, 6:55:45 PM

Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Trait: Download
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Agility
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Tri Attack

malomyotismon · Dec 2nd, 2012, 6:58:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat TheStriker

Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Trait: Download
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Nature: Modest
- Agility
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Tri Attack

Another porygon-Z? Okay I can't put it up while there is such a strong case for landerous for outclassing it, with it's better stab and better typing, better bulk and argubly better ability in sheer force.

~~Oiawesome~~ · Dec 2nd, 2012, 7:25:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat malomyotismon

Another porygon-Z? Okay I can't put it up while there is such a strong case for landerous for outclassing it, with it's better stab and better typing, better bulk and argubly better ability in sheer force.

Ok Lando is not as good as proygon Z in some cases,But here is PZs main advantage:Download,The +1 boost it gets is rediculous with 135 Special Attack and speed dosent matter as 88+ base speed neutral natures at +2 outspeed evreything viable in this meta(Fuk Scarf Ninjask).And also PZ can run double dance wich makes it able to destroy both main playstyles(Offense and Stall)Although thats not the set bieng talked about.Landorus and PZ both have their disadvantages and advantages they are both exelant pokemon.Also you havent made evidence or any real case why landorus is better,you just say it is. Here are some clacs to show that P-Z actualy is walled by less things than Landorus,with download and sheer force both counted:

PZ Clacs

Landorus Clacs

6 pokemon can wall download PZ completely and 9 pokemon can wall Sheer Force Landorus completely

malomyotismon · Dec 2nd, 2012, 7:33:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Oiawesome

Ok Lando is not as good as proygon Z in some cases,But here is PZs main advantage:Download,The +1 boost it gets is rediculous with 135 Special Attack and speed dosent matter as 88+ base speed neutral natures at +2 outspeed evreything viable in this meta(Fuk Scarf Ninjask).And also PZ can run double dance wich makes it able to destroy both main playstyles(Offense and Stall)Although thats not the set bieng talked about.Landorus and PZ both have their disadvantages and advantages they are both exelant pokemon.Also you havent made evidence or any real case why landorus is better,you just say it is. Here are some clacs to show that P-Z actualy is walled by less things than Landorus,with download and sheer force both counted:

PZ Clacs

Landorus Clacs

6 pokemon can wall download PZ completely and 9 pokemon can wall Sheer Force Landorus completely

I am not getting into this argument, but I will say azelf, cress, and meloetta are very rare in ou as is specially defensive celebi, dragonite is 2koed unless it roosts which it won't and leave it for someone else to take a part, I got abacteriology exam to study for! I'll read the arguments and post accordingly and thats it and I am not convienced about porygon-z.

Kidogo · Dec 2nd, 2012, 8:43:50 PM

First of all, all you're showing is the literal amount of damage they're capable of. This doesn't say much about how good the pokemon actually are.

Second, I have never seen a full SpD celebi, meloetta, dnite, or togekisss. Azelf is rarely used in OU and would never run full health. So the only pokes there that like are real counters to landy are cress, gyara, and the blobs (also, why did you calc fblast vs. gyara and cress instead of hp ice--does less).
On the other hand, every single one of the pokes that counter pory-z is viable in OU and commonly runs a SpD set (maybe excepting zone, but bulky with a lot of hp is common). So really, the number of actual pokemon you will ever run into that counter each sweeper is 6 for pory-z and 4 for zone.

Additionally, not every team tries to beat an RP sweeper by fully countering it. Instead, they'll throw out a poke that can take a hit and KO back. And there are a lot more pokemon that can take one hit from pory than from landy--just about any steel in OU for example.

Lastly, pory is just so much more easily defeated in other ways--priority, residual damage, not having good defenses with which to set up, etc.
In terms of the number for SpA, yeah, pory can get higher with DL boost. But it's way easier to beat than landy.

malomyotismon · Dec 3rd, 2012, 2:48:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Kidogo

First of all, all you're showing is the literal amount of damage they're capable of. This doesn't say much about how good the pokemon actually are.

Second, I have never seen a full SpD celebi, meloetta, dnite, or togekisss. Azelf is rarely used in OU and would never run full health. So the only pokes there that like are real counters to landy are cress, gyara, and the blobs (also, why did you calc fblast vs. gyara and cress instead of hp ice--does less).
On the other hand, every single one of the pokes that counter pory-z is viable in OU and commonly runs a SpD set (maybe excepting zone, but bulky with a lot of hp is common). So really, the number of actual pokemon you will ever run into that counter each sweeper is 6 for pory-z and 4 for zone.

Additionally, not every team tries to beat an RP sweeper by fully countering it. Instead, they'll throw out a poke that can take a hit and KO back. And there are a lot more pokemon that can take one hit from pory than from landy--just about any steel in OU for example.

Lastly, pory is just so much more easily defeated in other ways--priority, residual damage, not having good defenses with which to set up, etc.
In terms of the number for SpA, yeah, pory can get higher with DL boost. But it's way easier to beat than landy.

Thank you, I am just too busy to sit down and make a huge speech about z and the flaws in his argument. Okay no more suggesting porygon z in future.

Dec 2nd, 2012, 1:13:08 PM	#26
EtherDrive Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 198 In The House Bathing My Cyndaquils	Normal stabs are quite useless in this metagame and how does he do special sweeping better with a far less base SpA and less coverage? Earth Power Hidden Power (which doesn't benefit from sheer force) U-turn. Explain. __________________ PO: Tienty Tier: UU

Dec 2nd, 2012, 1:31:08 PM	#27
Stathakis I hax people in real life Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,822	landorus only needs earth power, hidden power, and focus blast. weaken rotom and you can basically sweep from there doesn't take LO recoil, much bulkier than p-z, and has useful resistances. also he gets to use a stab attack mostly just resistances and bulk though. makes setting up the rock polish much easier. genesect had good resistances, landorus has good resistances. p-z has jack shit Last edited by Stathakis; Dec 2nd, 2012 at 2:30:02 PM.

Dec 2nd, 2012, 2:26:25 PM	#29
flea Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 43 Suuuuuper Geeeenius	Just as an FYI, the scarf Nidoking and scarf Jirachi posted in the OP both have illegal extra EVs, it should be 4 SpD on the Jirachi and 4 HP on the Nidoking instead of 6 __________________ I've got my ACME rewards card.

Dec 2nd, 2012, 6:55:45 PM	#31
TheStriker Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 117	Porygon-Z @ Life Orb Trait: Download EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe Nature: Modest - Agility - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Tri Attack __________________ PM or VM me for an OU or RU Rate!

Dec 2nd, 2012, 8:43:50 PM	#35
Kidogo Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 425	First of all, all you're showing is the literal amount of damage they're capable of. This doesn't say much about how good the pokemon actually are. Second, I have never seen a full SpD celebi, meloetta, dnite, or togekisss. Azelf is rarely used in OU and would never run full health. So the only pokes there that like are real counters to landy are cress, gyara, and the blobs (also, why did you calc fblast vs. gyara and cress instead of hp ice--does less). On the other hand, every single one of the pokes that counter pory-z is viable in OU and commonly runs a SpD set (maybe excepting zone, but bulky with a lot of hp is common). So really, the number of actual pokemon you will ever run into that counter each sweeper is 6 for pory-z and 4 for zone. Additionally, not every team tries to beat an RP sweeper by fully countering it. Instead, they'll throw out a poke that can take a hit and KO back. And there are a lot more pokemon that can take one hit from pory than from landy--just about any steel in OU for example. Lastly, pory is just so much more easily defeated in other ways--priority, residual damage, not having good defenses with which to set up, etc. In terms of the number for SpA, yeah, pory can get higher with DL boost. But it's way easier to beat than landy. __________________ Check out my RMT (Baton) Passport to Victory (Peaked #2)! Want to read a warstory? Try this one: Dragons Dinos, and Donkeys (I mean ponies): an OU Warstory