UU Stats: November 2012 - Page 2

ScraftyIsTheBest · Dec 6th, 2012, 7:44:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Chimera404

do you just post on every single stats thread?
No, I post on other parts of the forums as well. This is not all I do.

You're also wrong, too. (only partially kidding)

Hitmontop outclasses Claydol as a spinner because, well, it's Claydol, possesses horrible offensive stats, and is flat-out 1HKO'd or 2HKO'd by the majority of UU, such as Darmanitan, Raikou, Roserade, Blastoise, Weavile and especially the demonic Heraboss, while Hitmontop is only weak to Psychic and Flying while having Intimidate to scare off Physical attackers.

Both are pretty terrible as spinners from my experience. Claydol is weak as hell, and has no recovery. And loses to everything, but not as badly as Ambipom, 'cause at least it can set up Stealth Rock and Dual Screens, which allows it to at least do something. And Hitmontop is well, not exactly great. It's bulk is pretty average. Foresight and Intimidate are all that save it.

Here's one reason Hitmontop has a niche over Mienshao: Priority Technician Mach Punch which is a great revenge killer. It also hits harder with Fake Out and is a hell of a lot bulkier given similar EV spreads.

Technitop is okay. It does revenge Sharpedo, which is kinda important, and other things too. But Fake Out isn't a good move. It's best not to use it. And with Sand Stream banned, Technitop has lost much usefulness in revenging Stoutland.

Gligar, as other people have stated, is a wonderful physical wall that almost cannot be OHKO'd by any sort of physical, non-ice attack. It neatly avoids the 2HKO by Scarf Victini and Darmanitan, and can roost-stall the Banded version of the former until it's in KO range... naturally, the same applies to the LO variant of the latter, though not nearly as easily.

I guess I may have gotten too far with that Gligar statement. Anyways, It's annoying to physical attackers, (My Bisharp has failed to ever get past this thing), and Heracross does give it viability to some degree (although it can't do much back, which must be kept in mind. I'd still say though that Slowbro>Gligar as a physical wall, but Gligar is good at what it does.

Ambipom is great. Not usually top-tier threat but it can be depending on what you run on it. Fake Out is obligatory priority, Return/Double Hit for STAB, then that leaves you with two things. Beat Up, quite infamously, can 2HKO Slowbro, one of the premier physical walls in UU, as well as, iirc, pretty much every Ghost in the tier. U-turn on Ambipom is for scrubs. You're not forcing switches as is anyway.

This is completely wrong. Ambipom is complete garbage. No, Fake Out is not a great move, it's a highly situational move that allows a free switch-in to something truly dangerous like Escavalier or Rhyperior (the former rather rare for unknown reasons). Low Sweep does not OHKO them, and they can hurt back for much damage. Sableye also loves trolling the monkey. Beat Up is done better by Weavile, and scouting done better by Mienshao and Cinccino. Outclassed in every aspect.

Arguments/Commentary/Replies in bold, yadayadayada, etc.

Bent1ey · Dec 7th, 2012, 12:51:13 AM

I think we've had the Ambipom discussion very often as it is. It has some perks like superior speed, decent coverage and Fake Out can be used to discourage fast attackers. Fake Out only allows free switch in if you lack of prediction, in truth you should use it mostly in the same game when potential wreckers are out of the way. Otherwise, lead with Beat Up or Low Sweep. It gets more usage than it should, and it's poorly used most of the time, it's fragile as hell. Obviously it's not great, but it does some stuff if used correctly.

/B/utterfree · Dec 7th, 2012, 1:27:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Bent1ey

I think we've had the Ambipom discussion very often as it is. It has some perks like superior speed, decent coverage and Fake Out can be used to discourage fast attackers. Fake Out only allows free switch in if you lack of prediction, in truth you should use it mostly in the same game when potential wreckers are out of the way. Otherwise, lead with Beat Up or Low Sweep. It gets more usage than it should, and it's poorly used most of the time, it's fragile as hell. Obviously it's not great, but it does some stuff if used correctly.

nyeh

I've kinda given up on trying to dissuage people from using Ambipom. It's not my cup of tea, but for some people it's theirs. Honestly, I'll just continue gaining skill via prediction every time I come across on in UU, or *shudder* in OU.

Warb · Dec 7th, 2012, 3:41:31 AM

Who doesn't love the classic "doesn't matter if my opponent will probably lead with Crobat I'm gonna lead with Ambipom anyway"-opponent who then proceeds to fake out.

Chimera404 · Dec 10th, 2012, 9:57:55 PM

Is that a legit reply format?
I apologize, I didn't mean to insinuate that you only posted in the Stats thread, but you do seem to do it for every tier.

I'm just going to argue Ambipom because we tend not to disagree too violently with the rest.

Fake Out is a very useful move, damn it. It's essentially free damage if the opponent stays in, which they never do... which is why it's such a great mon for a lure: send it in for the predicted, definite revenge kill, then swap to whatever Ghost/Rock/Steel counter you're packing on your team. Honestly it requires playing around a lot: Do you swap in a counter to be potentially whacked with a coverage move or Return, or do you lose flat-out to a +3 Priority STAB Technician-boosted move? Puts pressure and makes mindgames; for example, many people prefer to keep Darmanitan into Ambipom on the first turn, which costs them something like 51% of their HP to LO Fake Out... Slowbro, if predicted correctly, is easily 2HKO'd by Beat Up, something Weavile doesn't get to do because nobody keeps Slowbro into Weavile in the first place. It's amazing in late-game to stop sweeps and just pull off a last-second win.

Dec 7th, 2012, 12:51:13 AM	#27
Bent1ey Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 208	I think we've had the Ambipom discussion very often as it is. It has some perks like superior speed, decent coverage and Fake Out can be used to discourage fast attackers. Fake Out only allows free switch in if you lack of prediction, in truth you should use it mostly in the same game when potential wreckers are out of the way. Otherwise, lead with Beat Up or Low Sweep. It gets more usage than it should, and it's poorly used most of the time, it's fragile as hell. Obviously it's not great, but it does some stuff if used correctly.

Dec 7th, 2012, 3:41:31 AM	#29
Warb Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 62	Who doesn't love the classic "doesn't matter if my opponent will probably lead with Crobat I'm gonna lead with Ambipom anyway"-opponent who then proceeds to fake out.

Dec 10th, 2012, 9:57:55 PM	#30
Chimera404 Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 70	Is that a legit reply format? I apologize, I didn't mean to insinuate that you only posted in the Stats thread, but you do seem to do it for every tier. I'm just going to argue Ambipom because we tend not to disagree too violently with the rest. Fake Out is a very useful move, damn it. It's essentially free damage if the opponent stays in, which they never do... which is why it's such a great mon for a lure: send it in for the predicted, definite revenge kill, then swap to whatever Ghost/Rock/Steel counter you're packing on your team. Honestly it requires playing around a lot: Do you swap in a counter to be potentially whacked with a coverage move or Return, or do you lose flat-out to a +3 Priority STAB Technician-boosted move? Puts pressure and makes mindgames; for example, many people prefer to keep Darmanitan into Ambipom on the first turn, which costs them something like 51% of their HP to LO Fake Out... Slowbro, if predicted correctly, is easily 2HKO'd by Beat Up, something Weavile doesn't get to do because nobody keeps Slowbro into Weavile in the first place. It's amazing in late-game to stop sweeps and just pull off a last-second win.