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Dec 2nd, 2012, 5:39:00 PM
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#1 |
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 16
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1437
- 1437 -
      Hii, Smogon.~
Last edited by q p; Jan 8th, 2013 at 2:05:07 PM. Reason: Tentacruel |
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- Terrakion
- Breloom & Toxicroak
- Momentum|
Dec 3rd, 2012, 4:33:25 AM
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#2 |
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Nobody is safe from the power of science!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 688
Italy
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Hey, great team you have there, and I loved the presentation too. Unfortunately, most of the things you noted in the "known threats" sections are correct, and while you can play around most of them somehow, Celebi is really a bitch, especially Specially Defensive with Perish Song, which you can't realistically hax with Jirachi, and touch with anything else. However your team is hard to modify since everything already has a nice and well defined role. To me, the most replaceable member seems Jirachi (don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore that set, but removing everything else open much bigger holes in your team). Scizor (a bulky SD one) can take on Celebi, retain the sweeping prowess of Jirachi (although it's a quite different poke) and benefit from Rain since its Fire weakness is lowered. It will also help against Toxicroak and Breloom, since its priority will hurt even if unboosted, and 252+ LO Mach Punch is not even a 2HKO without hazards. It also helps against Terrakion for obvious reasons. It can't do much to solve your VoltTurn problem, but I think that should be manageable anyway and by far not the biggest between the weaknesses you listed.
Scizor
I'd probably also test a Tentacruel in place on Chansey, putting SR onto Ferrothorn. The only apparent weakness it opens up is Tornadus-T, but a Specially Defensive Tentacruel doesn't give a fuck about it as it's not even 2HKO'd without factoring Rain Dish. However you should playtest it a bit, since I'm not 100% sure it'll work as intended. The set I'm thinking of is a standard Cruel set but with defensive EVs moved into SpD; obviously it won't tank any physical attack, but that wasn't Blissey's function in the first place, and resistance to Superpower / U-Turn ensure that it doesn't take too much damage from those. Hope I helped. Good luck.
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Counter that Pokemon project: Mk III (over) & Warstory | Mk IV (running) RMTs: The HOutsiders (also the other ones if anyone likes lurking my old posts) Not accepting rating requests anymore. Sorry!
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Dec 3rd, 2012, 8:06:03 AM
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#3 |
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 369
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Hey, nice team.
On such a defensive team as yours is entry hazards are usually the biggest problem as you stated yourself. A possible solution could be running Forretress > Ferrothorn. Forretress allows you to still get spikes up, while also being able to spin hazards away. Forretress does well as a physicall wall too. Chansey can still tank Volt Switches and Jirachi can tank Draco Meteors. As for Kingdra, it's really uncommon. While, if you face it Keldeo/Jirachi can both take a hit and either bait it into Outrage or paralyze it with Thunder. Forretress also is a decent Terrakion check, OHKOing it with Gyro Ball after a Close Combat, while if Terrakion is a Life Orb/Choice Band set you can just switch to Latias to out speed and KO it with Psyshock. For the VoltTurn problem, as long as you manage to get up Stealth Rocks the combination of Forretress + Chansey should be able to deal with it. Once Rotom-w is weakened enough, you can just switch in Keldeo vs Scizor's U-turn and KO Rotom-w with Secret Sword. I don't really see how Breloom + Toxicroak are a problem. You should just play safe with Latias and Jirachi and sleep fodder something. Both Jirachi and Latias out speed both Breloom and Toxicroak. Jirachi just has to watch out for Mach Punch, but as long as you safe Latias that shouldn't be a problem. You're right about your weakness to Ferrothorn and Celebi, with Ferrothorn as the biggest threat. Latias can be seen as a check to Celebi, but if Celebi lives a Draco it can just Recover and wall Latias. A simple change can solve the Celebi problem: Toxic > Thunder Wave on Chansey. This way you can just switch into it with Chansey and wall it till it is eventually worn down by Toxic. Ferrothorn is a bigger problem. The only real way you have of dealing with it is Keldeo's Secret Sword. Nothing but a major change can really cure you of your Ferrothorn weakness, but a big change wouldn't be worth it. I suggest that when you see a Ferrothorn you just switch in Forretress and try to find an opportunity to switch in Keldeo from there, on for example a Leech Seed. One last change I'd recommend is, now that you don't have Ferrothorn anymore, you might be better off changing Wish > Substitute on Jirachi. Jirachi will now take the majority of Draco Meteors, while you had Ferrothorn before that to sponge them and recover back Hp with Leech Seed. Now that you have Wish, Jirachi can do the same. Wish is also nice for Keldeo, since it has to switch into Leech Seeds. Hope I helped. I'd like to complement you on your presentation too. It makes it easier to rate and on top of that makes it looks nice ;). Good luck ! ~Sets:
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Dec 3rd, 2012, 10:29:16 AM
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#4 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 16
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Quote:
Thanks for the rate. How I didn't think of Scizor myself is beyond me, it looks like it will fit really well. I'll definitely give it a try. As far as Tentacruel is concerned, I've pretty much been switching back and forth between it and Chansey. Tentacruel obviously helps with hazards and isn't complete setup fodder like Chansey. On the other hand it leaves me wide open to a handful of special sweepers. Think along the lines of Volcarona, Thundurus-T, some Latios sets or even Starmie. Of course I can usually play around them somehow, but Chansey is just a nice, safe surefire counter that I'm a little relucant to replace her. I'll definitely keep Tentacruel in mind though. Quote:
Forretress looks cool, I'll definitely test it. Volt Switch in particular look appealing since having switch advantage for once would be a godsend. As for my problem with Celebi and Ferrothorn, I usually play around Ferrothorn by either forcing it to repeatedly switch into hazards, fishing for a burn with Scald or preferably using it as setup fodder for Jirachi. The problem with Celebi is that it can simply shrug of status moves, has access to instant recovery and just...doesn't die. Anyway, since using Jirachi against Ferrothorn usually works rather well I'd like to keep Substitute. Chansey and Forretress should hopefully be enough to sponge some Draco Meteors. Toxic on Chansey looks like it might alleviate the problem a little and will definitely be tested. Thank you for your rate, much appreciated. I'll also update my threat list, kind of rushed it yesterday and probably made a bigger deal out of Volt Switch, Breloom and Toxicroak than they actually are. |
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Dec 3rd, 2012, 3:40:06 PM
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#5 | |
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Nobody is safe from the power of science!
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 688
Italy
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Quote:
__________________
Counter that Pokemon project: Mk III (over) & Warstory | Mk IV (running) RMTs: The HOutsiders (also the other ones if anyone likes lurking my old posts) Not accepting rating requests anymore. Sorry!
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Dec 3rd, 2012, 9:14:12 PM
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#6 |
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If our love is tragedy, why are you my remedy?
 
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Hey there,
This is a pretty solid defensive team, but I do see way it can be improved. So in my opinion, every defensive team needs a spinner in this metagame (and in general). It helps immensely vs fast paced hazard stacking teams, and helps to keep your walls healthy. So like Gan4lf suggested, I would try a Tentacruel > Chansey. Tentacruel gives you spin, and the loss of Chansey isnt too huge. Tentacruel checks Volcarona (so does Scarf Keldeo), can setup Toxic Spikes (to help wear down Pokemon like Celebi), and the other threats you mentioned that Chansey covers can be handled by the rest of your team. With the loss of Chansey, Ferrothorn should use Stealth Rock > Protect, so you maintain hazard laying ability. I would also recommend Wish > Substitute on Jirachi. Wish CM Rachi is a fantastic sweeper in its own right, but also provides incredible support for your team. A lot of your team lacks reliable recovery, so Wish passing can really help keep you healthy. Wish also makes Jirachi a great Tornadus-T counter, who could otherwise wear down Jirachi slowly. Anyways, cool team and gl. tldr: Chansey -----> Tentacruel Protect -----> Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn Substitute -----> Wish on Jirachi
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Dec 4th, 2012, 11:59:48 AM
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#7 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 16
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Quote:
Thanks for your rate. I finally had some time to play some matches today. Since the suggestion to use Tentacruel in place of Chansey was quite common (on- and off-site) it was the first thing I tested. While Tentacruel may be a little...harder to use than Chansey it has been working great so far. Thanks again to everyone who suggested it. :3 Your advice to run Stealth Rock on Ferrothorn seems logical and has been implemented already. I am however still on the fence about giving up Substitute on Jirachi. Wish is cool and all and has helped a lot so far, but Substitute outright wins games sometimes. I'll play around with both a bit more when I have the time. |
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