Gliscor (BW2 Revamp) (QC 3/3)

[Electrolyte]

Like I promised, this would be up by Friday. I took Birkal's original skeleton, added C&C and OO, added the SubPass set, and made some tweaks here or there regarding the recent ban of Sand Veil.

Status: Quality Control

QC Approvals (3/3): Ginganinja, Princess Bri, Accidental Greed
GP Approvals (0/2):



Still very annoying

[Overview]

• One of the best physical walls in OU thanks to its resistances and high defense.
• Poison Heal ability gives it immunity to status, as well as a magnificent 12.5% HP gain every turn, making taking Gliscor down hard to do
• Has pretty good offensive capabilities despite being known as a defensive wall.
• Huge usage of Rain teams and special attackers give Gliscor trouble. However, the ability to wall top-tier threats such as Terrakion will forever earn it a spot as one of the most useful Pokemon in OU.
• BW2 brought a fair share of counters and new uses- the popularity of Landorus-T and the reallowance of Garchomp give even more uses for Gliscor on teams. However, new counters arose as well- Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T, Keldeo, and Genesect all can deal a lot of damage with their strong special moves.
• Can run Stealth Rock and Roost along with Poison Heal thanks to the new move tutors.
• Recent ban of Sand Veil in OU has made the Acrobat set a lot easier to stop- however, that doesn't make it less effective
• Faces some competition with Lando-T, which is bulkier at the start, and which also hits a lot harder. However, Gliscor's high overall bulk and ability still make it a fine physical wall

[SET]
name: Sub Toxic
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Protect / Taunt / Roost
move 4: Earthquake
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Impish
evs: 244 HP / 28 Def / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• The Good ol' Toxic Stall set is back to put smiles on peoples faces.
• Able to stall out a myriad of Pokemon by using Sub+Protect/Roost without losing a smidgen of health, along with Toxic.
• Toxic and Substitute are what make this set shine, so it is a must; Gliscor can Toxic stall many OU pokemon because of its high defense and steady, sped-up HP recovery in Poison Heal.
• Protect is usually preferred over Roost to aid with scouting and to guarantee your Toxic Orb activates. Roost also removes Gliscors vital Flying typing for a turn. However, Roost may be used for a never-ending cycle of healing. Taunt can also be used to prevent opposing set up, as well as prevent opposing Recovery
• Earthquake, the final slot, is the main STAB option to prevent it from being Taunt bait and to provide some type of offense.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Speed EVs allow you to out speed all Heatran except Choice Scarf sets, Neutral-nature Lucario, Jolly Mamoswine and Adamant Breloom.
• The rest of the EVs are put into HP and Defense to maximize Gliscors Physical Bulk. The HP evs make sure that Gliscor completely heals all lost Substitute HP in two turns.
• Speed can be adjusted to out speed Pokemon such as all Rotom except scarf variants. A spread of 244 HP / 72 Def / 192 Spe with a Jolly nature is the best alternate spread for that. If out speeding Jolly Mamoswine isn't necessary, a slightly different spread of 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spe with an Impish nature can be used. A Jolly nature can also be used in tandem with 220 Spe EVs to outspeed Deo-D and Lucario.
• Aerial Ace can be used in the last slot to destroy Breloom, one of the few physical threats than can beat Gliscor. It is also useful for providing good damage on Amoonguss.
• Toxic Spikes support is Gliscors best friend. Forretress, Tentacruel, and Roserade are excellent teammates that can perform this role.
• Tyranitar and Hippowdon, Pokemon with the Sand Stream ability are great partners along with Gliscor. They help put a damper on opposing weather teams and provide extra residual damage, aiding in Gliscors stalling rampage. Tyranitar is an excellent partner because of it's massive special defense. Gliscor takes the physical blows and most importantly, the deadly Fighting attacks aimed at Tyranitar.
• Steel types immune to Earthquake completely shut down this set. Air Balloon Heatran is unaffected by anything this set does and can hit back with Hidden Power Ice or STAB Fire Blast. Although not commonly seen in OU, Bronzong will beat this set and can hit hard with Hidden Power Ice. Skarmory walls this set and can set up hazards in it's face, but can not really do much back, especially if Gliscor packs Taunt.
• Taunt users completely shut down this set. Opposing Gliscor also stop this set cold, but can do nothing back unless they carry Ice Fang.
• Pokemon that out speed Gliscor and hit on the special side will almost always come out on top.
• Other good team mates that should be considered will need to focus on removing Pokemon that stop this set, and others that can take the special attacks aimed at Gliscor. Rotom-W is one of the best ways to deal with mentioned threats such as Skarmory and Air Balloon Heatran. Blissey can take all special attacks coming towards Gliscor, and Gliscor can take almost any physical attacks aimed at Blissey.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Taunt / Toxic
move 3: Toxic / Ice Fang / Stealth Rock
move 4: Roost / Protect
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
As one of the best physical walls in OU, this set walls some of the biggest threats around.
Similar to the old defensive set, but the availability of Stealth Rock and Roost has given Gliscor more options and versatility.
Typing provides handy immunities to Electric and Ground type attacks, as well as resistances to Fighting and Bug.
Useful if you need a defensive pivot or if you want to shut down stall teams.
Earthquake is the usual STAB option available.
Taunt is for shutting down stall and set-up sweepers that would use Gliscor as set-up fodder. It also stops Pokemon like Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn from setting up hazards.
The 3rd slot can be decided depending on what you need. Gliscor is a very reliable user of Stealth Rock if you need a Pokemon to set them up. Toxic helps provide residual damage and helps break down opposing walls and sweepers. Without Ice Fang, Gliscor is unable to touch Dragons and other Flying types.
Roost is the first option to provide constant healing alongside with Poison Heal. Protect is also a viable option for scouting choiced attackers and guaranteeing Toxic Orb activation.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
Speed EVs allow Gliscor to out speed max speed Adamant Tyranitar and Adamant Breloom. Alternately, you can bump Gliscors speed EVs up to 148 to outspeed Jolly Breloom and other base 70 Pokemon.
Other remaining EVs are placed into HP and Defense to provide maximum physical bulk. 248 HP EVs to lessen Stealth Rock damage and for maximum Poison Heal Recovery.
As always, speed EVs can be adjusted to outspeed different threats. A spread of 248 HP / 40 Def / 220 Spe with an Impish nature can be used to outspeed Adamant Lucario and all Heatran except scarf sets.
Bulky Steel types like Skarmory can wall this set if Gliscor lacks Taunt. Bronzong walls this set and can retaliate with Hidden Power Ice.
Bulky waters wall this set, but must be wary of a possible Toxic coming their way.
Air Balloon Heatran, Latios, Keldeo and other special attackers will wreck Gliscor.
Special walls such as Jirachi, Heatran, and Chansey are excellent team mates.
Magnezone can trap troublesome steels such as Skarmory and also help deal with rain teams with it's STAB Thunderbolt. Both of which give Gliscor problems.
Rotom-W helps against rain teams and most steel types that stop Gliscor cold.

[SET]
name: AcroBat
move 1: Acrobatics
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Swords Dance
move 4: Substitute / Agility
item: Flying Gem
ability: Hyper Cutter
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

• Gliscor can't use Sand Veil anymore, but this set is still very effective. This set uses Gliscor's natural bulk to set up on common unboosted physical attackers, and then sweep behind Substitutes with powerful STAB EQ's and Acrobatics's.
• Good base 95 speed and attack are enough to give Gliscor a dangerous offensive presence. It is enough to outspeed almost all common Taunters to allow Gliscor to pull of a Swords Dance in front of pokemon like Deoxys.
• Great STABs; Flying Gem helps pack a punch on the first hit with Acrobatics, and allows Gliscor to spam Hurricane powered attacks for the rest of the match
• Earthquake is Gliscors strongest STAB option for this set, providing excellent coverage and power.
• Swords Dance is preferred move for busting through its counters, but Agility is a viable option against offensive teams. Despite having decent offensive options, it still lacks power.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Probably should list those calcs on the existing analysis; they're good.
• vs. 112/0 Rotom-W 83.64% - 98.14%
• vs. 4/0 Rotom-W 92.98% - 109.09%
• vs. 252/252+ Slowbro 81.73% - 96.19%
• vs. 252/184+ Gliscor 86.72% - 102.54%
• Can push through Rotom-W, which is pretty unique for a Gliscor set.
• Poison Heal is used over Hyper Cutter to allow Gliscor to come in on a predicted Toxic and gain needed Recovery as well as the ability to become a status absorber
• Beats most bulky waters with a 2HKO, including Vaporeon, Slowbro, and defensive Gliscor.
• Easily revenge killed if Agility isn't used.
• Magnezone is still a good team mate because it can trap Skarmory and Bronzong, as well as having a powerful STAB Thunderbolt to hit bulky waters. It can also bait fighting types for Gliscor to set up on.
• Should be paired with pokemon that can take Water / Ice type attacks easily, as many water type pokemon such as Keldeo-R are quite dangerous to it. Some good partners include Rotom-W, Keldeo-R, Vaporeon, or Jellicent.

[SET]
name: Sub Pass
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Taunt / Agility / Swords Dance
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Poison Heal
nature: Impish
evs: 244 HP / 28 Def / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• This set aims to use Gliscor's great defenses and good speed with Baton Pass and Substitute to pass to teammates
• great partner on all sorts of teams- not just baton pass- because it keeps its ability to wall almost any physical attacker
• Substitute and Baton Pass are the crux of the set- buying teammates time to set up or muscle past walls. Gliscor's decent base 75 HP and ability to heal Sub HP in just 2 turns makes it do this excellently
• Earthquake is here to hit Taunters. It has great coverage and power
• The last slot depends on what the team needs Gliscor to do other than SubPass- Taunt can be used to prevent opposing set up and Taunt
• Agility or Swords Dance can also be used to allow Gliscor to pass stat boosts. After a Swords Dance, GLiscor holds a fair amount of power by itself too, letting it hit opponents fairly hard
• Facade is another offensive move that can be used to hit flying types. It has decent power as well.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• Speed ev's are the same as the Substitute set- outspeeding Heatran, Mamoswine, and Breloom
• 244 evs are put into HP to make the Substitutes as bulky as possible; as well as keeping Gliscor's HP at an odd number to maximize Poison Heal.
• The rest is put into defense for added bulk.
• Skarmory and Bronzong are huge threats to this set- Skarmory resists both coverage moves, is immune to Toxic, and can Whirlwind away the passed Substitutes. However, with Taunt Gliscor can beat these foes and set up successfully without fear of being phazed.
• Bronzong on the other hand can HP Ice the Subs until they break. If Gliscor can pass before the Sub is broken, Bronzong is great set up bait to common recievers such as Volcorona, Lati@s, and Breloom.
• Nearly anything that can outspeed, take a hit, and break the Sub can counter this set's function. Lati@s, Gengar, and Thundurus-T are all prime examples. However, all but Gengar won't like a Toxic.
• Phazers work well as well if Gliscor doesn't carry taunt.
• Great partners are not only recievers with synergy but also pokemon that can set up on or threaten Gliscor's counters.
• Jirachi is also a great example. Body Slam and Iron head will chip away at your opponent's health fast and even if they do manage to attack they'll only be touching a dummy. Its bulk and typing fit well with Gliscor too

[OTHER OPTIONS]

• Bulky Swords Dance. It can play a role of a tank as well as a support pokemon that can sweep. It is also an effective wallbreaker.
• Fling+Acrobatics
• Passing SD/Agilities
• U-Turn can be used for a fast scouting set

[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

• Most moderately fast and bulky special attackers can beat Gliscor
• Gengar is a good offensive counter- immune to EQ and Toxic, as well as able to outspeed and break Gliscor's Subs
• Bronzong and Skarmory top the list by resisting all common moves and being able to beat it with either HP ice or Whirlwind. Air Balloon Heatran is also a good check, as it is immune to Toxic and EQ as well. However, it has to watch out for offensive Gliscor as once its balloon is popped it can not function as a check.
• Fast taunters such as Sableye, Tornadus-I, and Aerodactyl can pretty much stop Gliscor's defensive sets
• Xatu gets a mention here as it cannot be Toxic'd and is immune to EQ
• Bulky water types do a nice job- but many do not appreciate toxic. Hydration Vaporeon is a great answer as it doesn't mind any status.
• Most Ice types can beat Gliscor- Cloyster can Icicle Spear past Substitutes, Mamoswine can Ice Shard/Crash/Spear, Kyurem-B can Ice Beam, and Abomasnow can Blizzard / Ice Shard.
• If the Gliscor is without Taunt, most slower walls can handle Gliscor easily, tanking its relatively weak hits and setting hazards or attacking

[Chimpakt]

how does 248 hp maximize poison heal? 353 (stat) is not divisible by 8 and is not efficient at all. with 353 and 352 you heal 44 hp per turn and take 44 from rocks. What does the odd hp really do? I'm pretty sure 244 is the most efficient spread for Gliscor running poison heal.

[Seth Vilo]

This was gone over in the last thread. Apparently it's a cardinal sin to lower a defensive Pokemon's health at all - even by a point - for these magical numbers (Life Orb, Leftovers and Poison Heal), no matter how efficient it may be...

Mind you, I always do anyway. If we're not going to change the actual analysis, maybe a mention in OO of what the number actually is so new people get acquainted with PokeMath.

Mind you, I believe the sets that utilize Substitute are better off with 248 HP, since from what I understand Substitute works better with an odd HP number so you can theoretically Sub 5 times with 1 HP left (not counting Poison Heal).

[Jukain]

Why would run the completely useless Hyper Cutter on AcroBat when you could run Poison Heal so that you can use Gliscor for status fodder and get recovery.

btw, the magic Poison Heal numbers are divisible by 8 + 1, so Chimpakt is right about 244 HP EVs for the defensive set and SD at least. You're best off with 248 for Substitute sets. I'll do some math to make sure there isn't a more optimal spread for Defense.

[Electrolyte]

Originally Posted by Fat pokemon0078

Why would run the completely useless Hyper Cutter on AcroBat when you could run Poison Heal so that you can use Gliscor for status fodder and get recovery.

btw, the magic Poison Heal numbers are divisible by 8 + 1, so Chimpakt is right about 244 HP EVs for the defensive set and SD at least. You're best off with 248 for Substitute sets. I'll do some math to make sure there isn't a more optimal spread for Defense.

Regarding Hyper Cutter, it's more debateable. Both abilities can be used effectively; as Hyper Cutter lets you beat Gyarados and Salamence- both of whom you'd need +2 and flying Gem to OHKO with Acrobatics. Hyper Cutter prevents your attack stat from falling, so Intimidaters aren't as annoying. Poison Heal can be used, I guess, but the chances of you getting poisoned are relatively small. I don't see the need to put it in as neither will be used very much.

Ok so 248 HP allows you to make 4 subs and still live; with 244 you can only make three. They both heal the same amount from Poison Heal, but an added 4 evs lets you make 1 more substitute

[ginganinja]

Regarding Hyper Cutter, it's more debateable. Both abilities can be used effectively; as Hyper Cutter lets you beat Gyarados and Salamence- both of whom you'd need +2 and flying Gem to OHKO with Acrobatics. Hyper Cutter prevents your attack stat from falling, so Intimidaters aren't as annoying. Poison Heal can be used, I guess, but the chances of you getting poisoned are relatively small. I don't see the need to put it in as neither will be used very much.

Couple of problems with this, firstly, Salamence used Intimidate 23% of the time while Moxie hit around 76% (Yes im aware they don't add up to 100% but fuck tiny decimal places). In addition, in my experience Salamence doesn't switch into Gliscor anyway very often, potentially because Gliscor often packs ice fang, and it struggles to beat Gliscor anyway.

Gyarados is perhaps a better example, since Intimidate and Moxie are used roughly equally. Hyper Cutter is also good against Landorus-T I guess, although I am prety sure it needs HP Ice to win. All of these examples are pointless however, if you manage to get up a Substitute before they switch in so bear that in mind.

In contrast, Poison Heal is actually pretty nice on AcroBat Gliscor, but you absolutely need to switch in on the Toxic, and thats pretty tricky to do when most comonly, its water types hitting the Toxic. Outside of that your switching in on Blissey / Heatran / Ninetales and hoping they spam Toxic, which is still a risky switch in the case of the lsat two, as fire attacks will do a fair bit. Its 50/50 either way I think personally, but I think that real problem is that I am unsure how good AcroBat actually is without Sand Veil. With Sand Veil, you had an excellent chance to smoke Rotom-W because it only had something like a 60% chance at hitting you with Hydro Pump, without Sand Veil, its much trickier. Sure, Rotom-W gets smacked with a +2 Acrobatics but I think this set needs QC input before it goes further.

[alexwolf]

Let's see some calcs:

- CB Terrakion's Stone Edge vs 248 HP / 188 Def+ Gliscor: 44.47 - 52.69%, 35.55% chance to 2HKO after SR

- Same attack vs 248 HP / 252 Def+ Gliscor: 42.77 - 50.42%, 6.64% chance to 2HKO after SR

- +2 Terrakion's Rock Gem Stone Edge vs 248 HP / 188 Def+ Gliscor: 88.66 - 104.81%, 31.25% chance to OHKO

- Same attack vs 248 HP / 252 Def+ Gliscor: 84.98 - 100.28%, 6.25% chance to OHKO

I don't know if there is anything else important that Gliscor can take with max Defense, but these calcs are more than enough reason. Gliscor with max Defense will almost always counter Terrakion, where speedy Gliscor has realistical chances to lose. I don't get why a defensive Pokemon should spend 18 valuable Defense points (19 if you count for the + nature) to outspeed a threat that doesn't exist, Jolly Ttar. Not to mention Breloom. You outspeed Breloom, ok so? Gliscor is a shitty answer to Technician Breloom anyway, actually fares better against SubPunch if it is slower, so that it can Roost without getting murdered by Seed Bomb / Focus Punch, and finally beats SubSeed sets no matter what if running Taunt. So tell me, what is the reason for the Speed evs? To outspeed Magnezone? A poke that can murder you on the switch with HP Ice, and is walled by a ton of pokes anyway? A poke that will never switch into you, or try to revenge kill you without a Scarf?

So yeah 248 HP / 252+ Def is the way to go guys. Oh and U-turn should really get a slash. Almost all defensive pokes that get U-turn/Volt Switch and don't suffer from huge 4mss have them in their sets, so why not Gliscor? Or at least an AC mention... Always talking about the Defensive set.

[shrang]

Poison Heal is equally viable on AcroBat. You don't actually have to go and actively abuse the ability (switching into Toxic) to take advantage of it. Isn't the perk of being immune to Toxic not attractive enough? It can just be a fail-safe right there. I guess Hyper Cutter is pretty good because Intimidate is common enough, and blocking that is pretty important.

In addition, in my experience Salamence doesn't switch into Gliscor anyway very often, potentially because Gliscor often packs ice fang, and it struggles to beat Gliscor anyway.

Just to quickly address this point, every time I use MixMence with Intimidate I'd generally switch into Gliscor. Ice Fang from defensive Gliscor does absolutely jack shit after an Intimidate (~45%, which is just pitiful for a 4x effective attack), while you can just Draco Meteor the Gliscor to high heaven.

[Ernesto]

Just wanted to mention that AcroBat has Substitute as a primary slash, and provided your Sub is up Intimidators won't be able to stop its sweep. Sure, you can always say that Substitute also helps you against Toxic if you don't have Poison Heal, but that would make both abilities equally viable. Still, imo, I prefer being immune to Burns (if I could predict a switch to Toxic) that being immune to Intimidate all the way, but I guess that's up to each player to decide...

[Electrolyte]

Leaving a note here; I'm out of power so I'm just putting this on a standstill until I can come back with enough time to complete this

[Pocket]

Thoughts on scrapping Swords Dance? I haven't seen that in ages, and it just seems too redundant with the other defensive sets.

[Electrolyte]

Ok, let's get this analysis back up and running.

I did some more testing, and found out that Poison Heal IS quite a lot more useful than Hyper Cutter; the chances of being Toxic'd are far greater than that of being Intimidated, even with opponents playing cautiously with Toxic once they see Gliscor. The extra Recovery really really helps it Sub stall in Sand as well as set up with more ease.

Here are some topics that still need to be discussed and decided and my views on them:

alexwolf's U-Turn proposal:
I do think that U-Turn is quite standard on Gliscor, but I'd like to put it in AC, because Taunt/Toxic or Roost/Protect are nearly always more useful. U-turn could be useful against pokemon like Rotom-W or Keldeo, however being defensive it's quite weak and usually regular switching should suffice. When in place in a VoltTurning team, having coverage or support options are preferred.
Pocket's SD proposal:
I would really like to see what other QC members think about this idea, because my opinion on this would be to keep the SD set, though I'm not exactly against ditching the set itself as long as someone has support. My personal opinion is that it acts as a tank that takes hits and seizes switches to pull of Dances, which makes it different from Defensive. The only thing I don't like about it is how pitifully weak it is even after a Swords Dance- Rotom-W survives a Facade with ~30%, while even 4 HP Loom can survive a +2 Ice Fang.
alexwolf's ev proposal:
I do think this requires more testing. Outspeeding Loom is occasionally useful when you want to finish off that last bit of HP, though if that's enough proof I'm not sure. I'll look into it.

[PDC]

Here is th deal with SD, it honestly can't break stall very well anymore and completely struggles against offensive teams. Gliscor really doesn't have the offensive presense with that Swords Dance set anymore in this faster paced metagame. It is not strong enough, not fast enough, and not reliable enough to really be given it's own set. It could be included I suppose as it does fill a niche of being able to potentially sweep, but today for a set like that it is very hard with the complete takeover of Rain and whatnot. It should stick to defensive sets and SD should be given an slash or AC mention on the Acrobat set possibly, or OO even.

[A dude]

Oh no, Pocket. Swords Dance is still a very effective set. It might require a bit of paralysis to help with the sweep, but it is downright effective. There have always been random spreads for it, but it still is a formidable set. Gliscor's immunities to Spikes and Thunder Wave also makes it even more annoying.

[Cherub Agent]

I also agree that Swords Dance is still a very effective set. In the AC it says that Skarmory utterly walls Gliscor; frankly this is untrue. Gliscor can simply Taunt Skarmory and set up on it (Facade will 2HKO at +6, and funnily enough is more powerful than Ice Fang against it) and Skarmory can only damage itself with Brave Bird, as Toxic Orb simply keeps Gliscor in good health. It's an absolutely incredible stallbreaker with EQ, Facade, Taunt and SD, as it's immune Spikes, Sandstorm and Toxic, and as I said before, can cheerfully break SkarmBliss. The set is awesome mainly because it's such an amazing tank early-midgame, and late-game is when it can pull off the sweep. Please don't scrap the set. Oh yeah and Taunt should really get the slash before Roost, as Taunt allows Gliscor to setup multiple Swords Dances and annihilate stall. Roost doesn't give Gliscor this luxury and is overrated on the Swords Dance set.

[Pocket]

Well okay, at the very least bump the SD set below defensive, since it's not a prominent set anymore. Shrang and I were actually thinking of merging the SD set with the defensive set - thoughts?

Also remove Roost from all of the moveset. Gliscor is one of those mons that actually pull off Protect-healing much more productively than other Pokemon, thanks to the major healing powers of Poison Heal.

Oh yea, replace Facade with Agility on the Baton Pass set. Passing Sub alone is rather shitty, especially since its sub often times break during the turn of Baton Pass. With Agility, Gliscor can actually facilitate a sweep of its recipient. Gliscor can usually pull this off, too, since nobody expects Sub Gliscor to set up an Agility! ginganinja has used this set with Agility with deadly effect ;(

[Cherub Agent]

Defensive and Swords Dance probably could be moved into one set: Tank. However, so many moves are theoretically perfectly viable for such a set (EQ, Taunt, Roost, Toxic, U-Turn, Facade, Stealth Rock, Protect, Ice Fang, Swords Dance, etc) that it's simply have to many slashes. I mean theoretically it could work, but I'd rather keep SD seperate, if only for aesthetic reasons.

[Pocket]

I was thinking:

move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Ice Fang / Facade
move 3: Stealth Rock / Swords Dance
move 4: Protect / Taunt

With everything else in AC

[alexwolf]

I really disagree with Taunt SD and defensive being merged into one set. As i have explained already and nobody presented any real objection, the defensive set needs max HP and max Def in order to counter Terrakion reliably, as well as Roost. With Roost Gliscor is able to beat Choice Band Terrakion reliably, as it can easily pp stall its SE with Roost. Protect is shit, because the opponent can always predict it and bring in something that forces you out, meaning you will be unable to switch inot Terrakion's Stone Edge again.

The two sets must be either two seperate sets, or the stallbreaker set should be put into OO (there are not so many stall teams these days anyway, and Gliscor has better things to be doing, not to mention that Gliscor is a mediocre stallbreaker imo. If the meta wasn't so offensive i could see more merit to it, but right now...)

[Pocket]

Yea, SD Stallbreaker set should go to OO; almost all Gliscor are either Substitute or the Defensive sets anyways. Electrolyte, you can explain the set in OO, instead. Save your Stallbreaker skelly just in case, though.

I would also move the Defensive set above Acrobatics set, since the latter is a lot less used ever since the Sand Veil ban.

Remove Poison Heal from the AcroBat; Hyper Cutter is just as useful as Poison Heal, so there should be no preferential ability listing here.

[Electrolyte]

Alright, I made the changes, all except for Stallbreaker, which I'd like to voice my few last thoughts on.

For one thing, I agree that it's job as a stallbreaker is not only not as useful now since stall isn't as crazy as it was a long time ago but also the other sets do express anti-stall notions as well- having Taunt and AcroGem on AcroGemScor or Taunt/Toxic on Substitute are more than enough to wittle through most stall nowadays.

I also had a few problems with the fact that it's supposed to be a kindasorta offensive tank too. I think this role is slightly outclassed by Lando-T now, who is infinitely stronger and bulkier. Plain SDScor's offensive prowess is definitely not comparable to the force AcroGem has, nor is it's defensive ability enough to rival with Sub/Defensive. As alexwolf said, a great thing about Scor was it's ability to wall Terrak, and with split evs like those, it's not going to be able to.

I'm going to spend some time now to move SD into OO. If anyone has any objections, now would be the time to speak up

[Pocket]

In the Overview mention Poison Heal grants Gliscor not only immunity to status, but also an incredible 12.5% / turn recovery, the main reason why it's so hard to take down Gliscor without powerful blunt attacks.

The ban of Sand Veil affected its SubSD set, so you should specify which Substitute set you're referring to on your Overview.

Although Landorus-T and Garchomp offered new threats that Gliscor can check, the former provides competition for the defensive Ground slot, as it can check Terrakion and Garchomp just as effectively as Gliscor, thanks to Intimidate, while also packing major punch. You should note this in your Overview.

The first Substitute sets need re-ordering:

move 1: Substitute
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Protect / Taunt / Roost
move 4: Earthquake

As you can see I made Toxic a staple instead of an alternative, and slashed Taunt with Protect / Roost. Ice Fang is only worth an AC mention.

[RaikouLover]

Originally Posted by Fat Pocket

Yea, SD Stallbreaker set should go to OO; almost all Gliscor are either Substitute or the Defensive sets anyways. Electrolyte, you can explain the set in OO, instead. Save your Stallbreaker skelly just in case, though.

This is piss-poor logic. My semi-stall teams are actually rather weak to Taunt SD Gliscor. Most stall is. It also doubles as a Tank and Lucario check. Some people would like that other than having Gliscor be a non-threatening punching bag. Give it Poison heal and you have a check to Breloom, Lucario, and Conkeldurr with the ability to sweep. If it is a win-win why scrap it?!?!?! Usage isn't supposed to determine what gets analysis and what does not. People refer to analysis to USE the pokemon -___-

[Frog]

EV time:
244 maximizes poison heal recovery
244/56 allows you to live a mixmence draco meteor.
220 speed beats lucario
176 beats toxicroak
136 speed outspeeds mamoswine and dragonite, but the fromer has ice shard
244/76 allows you to live LO lucario unboosted ice punch
12 Atk allows earthquake to always OHKO lucario
176 speed jolly beats hydreigon
EVed sets:
Substitute:
244 HP/12 Atk/76 Def/176 Spd
Yes my random numbers add up to 508
Defensive:
Same as above
Acrobat:
252 Atk/80 Def/176 Speed

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat RaikouLover

This is piss-poor logic. My semi-stall teams are actually rather weak to Taunt SD Gliscor. Most stall is. It also doubles as a Tank and Lucario check. Some people would like that other than having Gliscor be a non-threatening punching bag. Give it Poison heal and you have a check to Breloom, Lucario, and Conkeldurr with the ability to sweep. If it is a win-win why scrap it?!?!?! Usage isn't supposed to determine what gets analysis and what does not. People refer to analysis to USE the pokemon -___-

The thing is that stall teams are not so common, and even then, there are better stallbreakers than Gliscor. Defensive Gliscor is straight up better against offensive and balanced teams than stallbreaker as it can actually wall Terrakion and has one more moveslot, which he needs. If stall was more common then it could get a set, but the metagame is still quite offensive for it to warrant a set imo. I am not saying that stall is non existent, just that it is not common either, so having a set that it's only selling point over other Gliscor sets is the ability to beat stall (which it doesn't even do easily as many stall teams have answers against it) doesn't seem right. OO or AC in any other set is fine.