Doubles (New Topic - EV benchmarks!)

[Mr.lol]

Trick Room, in my experience, is actually a pretty effective strategy. One of the MOST ANNOYING THINGS about Trick Room is that unlike the other weathers or Tailwind, its nearly impossible to stop (aside Protect / Detect spam but that stops everything) once it gets setup. Trick Room isn't like other weathers where by switching in a Drought user you get rid of an enemy's rain, it distorts the battlefield for 5 turns and there's nothing you can do about it (except maybe go last one turn and leave one mon vulnerable to two mons and use TR to restore the dimensions, but that just sounds bad unless your desperate).

However, what's most annoying about Trick Room is getting it up in the first place X_X. Anyone that's used a Trick Room team pretty much uses a preset plan to prepare to lead it off when going against another team (if I go against sand team I has my Bronzong + Condellekur lead to stop threats), I can't recall who said it earlier, but this is their bane. Its extremely easy to predict what mons are to be used to stop TR prematurely, either by killing the user of TR, Imprison + TR (this quite literally is impossible to stop since it bypasses Mental Herb), Fake Out in the case where Dusclops and Dusknoir and Jellicent are not present, or Taunt (Whimsicott in particular thanks to being able to Encore Trick Room after its been used). Generally speaking, by stopping the two leads, its generally easy to stop the rest of the team, this is the case most of the time in the matches I've had against TR at least (except 1 against exeggutor which managed to do quite well without TR for a while and then he reset it later and things got messy (with and without hax)).

My point is Trick Room teams tends to have their plans planned out beginning from team preview, if they can get away with it they can send the battle into chaos for 4 turns, but this can backfire. Thus, semi-Trick Room teams are the best (at least in my opinion).

Speaking of Semi-Trick Room teams, there's a type of team called an anti-trick room team if I remember correctly, which relies on setting up Trick Room against faster teams and using Imprison to stop enemy trick room teams, I haven't used any so I can't attest very well to their effectiveness but I have seen them used before. If anyone here has used it well I'd think it'd be something to hear :P.

As for prominent users of Trick Room, I've used Musharna and Porygon 2 quite effectively. Musharna really in my opinion shines on Rain teams, since it can sit there and set up Trick Room while boosting the power of Surfs by avoiding damage thanks to telepathy. It can also setup screens or wither the opposition away with Psychics. Its ability to use Imprison to stop Protect and Trick Room is fun too :P. Porygon 2 is one of the most bulkiest Trick Room users around. Its extremely hard to OHKO it, and unlike Cresselia, it gets Recover. To show how bulky it is, this is how much Fighting Gem Terrakion's Close Combat does to it: (85.56 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO. The only problem is relying on Eviolite which makes it fall to Taunt users, and unlike Dusclops, it has no Fake Out immunity. Tracing abilities like Prankster to get priority Recover is hilarious though.

[Braverius]

Trick Room is actually more viable here than in VGC, which is saying quite a bit. However, the only good TR team I've seen on the ladder is Firestorm's, while I have seen quite a few of TR teams overall. Most of them are extremely obvious, run all 6 Pokemon under TR...and are usually toast turn 1 if they're playing against me.

Most people aren't using some sort of method to slow down potential threats, and most honestly don't even give a single care what the opponent is going to do, they just press the TR button blindly. You REALLY need a helper for your TR setter. More experienced players know that bog standard TR teams carry mental herb, and with item clause in Smogon Doubles, mental herb can be on more than one Pokemon.

But, the REAL reason why TR is good in Smogon Doubles compared to VGC: YOU ALL HATE NAPTIME. No, really, Amoonguss is half the reason Trick Room is so hard to set up in VGC, as you have to have a way to check it both during the setup turn and after it's set up. It's a pain in the butt for TR to work around, and while I think it'd be sort of bad to allow it to sleep all six Pokemon, only allowing one is sort of silly as well. Maybe a cap of two or three would be good here, meet in the middle. Then again, no one has proven how broken TR can be yet...so hey, challenge of the week!

[Braverius]

Originally Posted by Fat Mr.lol

My point is Trick Room teams tends to have their plans planned out beginning from team preview, if they can get away with it they can send the battle into chaos for 4 turns, but this can backfire. Thus, semi-Trick Room teams are the best (at least in my opinion).

Also, totally agreed with here.



(sorry for posting twice, hit the send hotkey rather than copy on accident :x)

[Antar*]

In case anyone's interested, this is my projection for the "Smogon Doubles OU" list:

Two-month statistics / Projected March Usages
Three month usage = (20*LastMonth+4*OneMonthAgo)/24

Three-month usage
 + ---- + ------------------ + ------- + 
 | Rank | Pokemon            | Percent | 
 + ---- + ------------------ + ------- + 
 | 1    | Politoed           | 15.722% |
 | 2    | Gastrodon          | 14.345% |
 | 3    | Hitmontop          | 12.650% |
 | 4    | Ninetales          | 12.381% |
 | 5    | Cresselia          | 11.578% |
 | 6    | Tyranitar          | 10.863% |
 | 7    | Metagross          | 10.313% |
 | 8    | Volcarona          |  9.954% |
 | 9    | Garchomp           |  9.363% |
 | 10   | Scizor             |  9.187% |
 | 11   | Ferrothorn         |  9.165% |
 | 12   | Whimsicott         |  9.143% |
 | 13   | Heatran            |  8.819% |
 | 14   | Landorus-Therian   |  8.521% |
 | 15   | Terrakion          |  8.393% |
 | 16   | Dragonite          |  7.879% |
 | 17   | Kingdra            |  7.757% |
 | 18   | Conkeldurr         |  7.463% |
 | 19   | Kyurem-Black       |  7.184% |
 | 20   | Latios             |  7.020% |
 | 21   | Reuniclus          |  6.751% |
 | 22   | Ludicolo           |  6.491% |
 | 23   | Victini            |  6.444% |
 | 24   | Gengar             |  6.282% |
 | 25   | Amoonguss          |  6.268% |
 | 26   | Abomasnow          |  6.253% |
 | 27   | Thundurus          |  6.244% |
 | 28   | Chandelure         |  6.072% |
 | 29   | Togekiss           |  5.906% |
 | 30   | Jellicent          |  5.899% |
 | 31   | Jolteon            |  5.888% |
 | 32   | Excadrill          |  5.827% |
 | 33   | Thundurus-Therian  |  5.707% |
 | 34   | Infernape          |  5.704% |
 | 35   | Breloom            |  5.675% |
 | 36   | Gyarados           |  5.224% |
 | 37   | Scrafty            |  5.166% |
 | 38   | Shaymin-Sky        |  4.934% |
 | 39   | Hydreigon          |  4.873% |
 | 40   | Rotom-Wash         |  4.706% |
 | 41   | Blaziken           |  4.682% |
 | 42   | Salamence          |  4.667% |
 | 43   | Bronzong           |  4.658% |
 | 44   | Alakazam           |  4.581% |
 | 45   | Lucario            |  4.482% |
 | 46   | Tornadus           |  4.355% |
 | 47   | Toxicroak          |  4.283% |
 | 48   | Latias             |  4.264% |
 | 49   | Espeon             |  4.154% |
 | 50   | Dusclops           |  4.019% |
 | 51   | Sableye            |  3.895% |
 | 52   | Venusaur           |  3.888% |
 | 53   | Gliscor            |  3.775% |
 | 54   | Cloyster           |  3.629% |
 | 55   | Zapdos             |  3.501% |
 | 56   | Weavile            |  3.359% |
 | 57   | Starmie            |  3.305% |
 | 58   | Rhyperior          |  3.257% |
 | 59   | Mamoswine          |  3.254% |
 | 60   | Mew                |  3.204% |
 | 61   | Keldeo             |  3.165% |
 | 62   | Vaporeon           |  3.144% |
 | 63   | Jirachi            |  3.139% |
 | 64   | Musharna           |  3.128% |
 | 65   | Arcanine           |  3.101% |
 | 66   | Charizard          |  3.042% |
 | 67   | Genesect           |  2.930% |
 | 68   | Blissey            |  2.603% |
 | 69   | Shuckle            |  2.580% |
 | 70   | Landorus           |  2.576% |
 | 71   | Cofagrigus         |  2.523% |
 | 72   | Cradily            |  2.500% |
 | 73   | Mienshao           |  2.409% |
 | 74   | Heracross          |  2.393% |
 | 75   | Aerodactyl         |  2.237% |
 | 76   | Slowbro            |  2.233% |
 | 77   | Hippowdon          |  2.173% |
 | 78   | Darkrai            |  2.167% |
 | 79   | Dugtrio            |  2.123% |
 | 80   | Lilligant          |  2.115% |
 | 81   | Porygon2           |  2.067% |
 | 82   | Swampert           |  2.058% |
 | 83   | Exeggutor          |  2.019% |
 | 84   | Slowking           |  2.017% |
 | 85   | Slaking            |  2.008% |
 | 86   | Umbreon            |  2.002% |
 | 87   | Manectric          |  1.966% |
 | 88   | Deoxys-Attack      |  1.913% |
 | 89   | Snorlax            |  1.910% |
 | 90   | Typhlosion         |  1.899% |
 | 91   | Forretress         |  1.888% |
 | 92   | Electivire         |  1.865% |
 | 93   | Hariyama           |  1.814% |
 | 94   | Haxorus            |  1.789% |
 | 95   | Gallade            |  1.762% |
 | 96   | Clefable           |  1.755% |
 | 97   | Ambipom            |  1.743% |
 | 98   | Kabutops           |  1.708% |
 | 99   | Celebi             |  1.698% |
 | 100  | Murkrow            |  1.685% |
 | 101  | Machamp            |  1.674% |
 | 102  | Dusknoir           |  1.661% |
 | 103  | Kyurem             |  1.621% |
 | 104  | Cinccino           |  1.552% |
 | 105  | Nidoking           |  1.498% |
 | 106  | Suicune            |  1.485% |
 | 107  | Milotic            |  1.484% |
 | 108  | Magnezone          |  1.482% |
 | 109  | Archeops           |  1.466% |
 | 110  | Lanturn            |  1.437% |
 | 111  | Tentacruel         |  1.430% |
 | 112  | Meloetta           |  1.393% |
 | 113  | Chansey            |  1.389% |
 | 114  | Deoxys-Defense     |  1.367% |
 | 115  | Sceptile           |  1.303% |
 | 116  | Staraptor          |  1.295% |
 | 117  | Lickilicky         |  1.284% |
 | 118  | Yanmega            |  1.263% |
 | 119  | Azumarill          |  1.236% |
 | 120  | Marowak            |  1.217% |
 | 121  | Eelektross         |  1.216% |
 | 122  | Rampardos          |  1.194% |
 | 123  | Gigalith           |  1.193% |
 | 124  | Roserade           |  1.191% |
 | 125  | Mantine            |  1.164% |
 | 126  | Absol              |  1.159% |
 | 127  | Porygon-Z          |  1.133% |
 | 128  | Tornadus-Therian   |  1.126% |
 | 129  | Tangrowth          |  1.116% |
 | 130  | Crobat             |  1.100% |
 | 131  | Spinda             |  1.076% |
 | 132  | Escavalier         |  1.069% |
 | 133  | Houndoom           |  1.027% |
 | 134  | Leafeon            |  1.023% |
 | 135  | Flygon             |  1.009% |
 | 136  | Froslass           |  0.986% |
 | 137  | Sawsbuck           |  0.984% |
 | 138  | Sharpedo           |  0.984% |
 | 139  | Lapras             |  0.975% |
 | 140  | Mismagius          |  0.968% |
 | 141  | Rotom-Frost        |  0.968% |
 | 142  | Bisharp            |  0.937% |
 | 143  | Gothitelle         |  0.932% |
 | 144  | Skarmory           |  0.919% |
 | 145  | Shiftry            |  0.902% |
 | 146  | Blastoise          |  0.895% |
 | 147  | Regigigas          |  0.882% |
 | 148  | Poliwrath          |  0.880% |
 | 149  | Victreebel         |  0.861% |
 | 150  | Glaceon            |  0.854% |
 | 151  | Darmanitan         |  0.843% |
 | 152  | Smeargle           |  0.835% |
 | 153  | Donphan            |  0.834% |
 | 154  | Zoroark            |  0.833% |
 | 155  | Omastar            |  0.812% |
 | 156  | Krookodile         |  0.804% |
 | 157  | Golurk             |  0.776% |
 | 158  | Ursaring           |  0.740% |
 | 159  | Empoleon           |  0.723% |
 | 160  | Serperior          |  0.720% |
 | 161  | Azelf              |  0.719% |
 | 162  | Sigilyph           |  0.715% |
 | 163  | Octillery          |  0.706% |
 | 164  | Aggron             |  0.706% |
 | 165  | Gardevoir          |  0.701% |
 | 166  | Torterra           |  0.699% |
 | 167  | Rotom-Heat         |  0.698% |
 | 168  | Cherrim            |  0.682% |
 | 169  | Parasect           |  0.667% |
 | 170  | Honchkrow          |  0.657% |
 | 171  | Virizion           |  0.652% |
 | 172  | Illumise           |  0.638% |
 | 173  | Venomoth           |  0.627% |
 | 174  | Manaphy            |  0.625% |
 | 175  | Ninjask            |  0.625% |
 | 176  | Raikou             |  0.622% |
 | 177  | Leavanny           |  0.616% |
 | 178  | Steelix            |  0.591% |
 | 179  | Flareon            |  0.586% |
 | 180  | Raichu             |  0.585% |
 | 181  | Liepard            |  0.579% |
 | 182  | Galvantula         |  0.577% |
 | 183  | Jynx               |  0.557% |
 | 184  | Togetic            |  0.553% |
 | 185  | Ditto              |  0.552% |
 | 186  | Ampharos           |  0.549% |
 | 187  | Cleffa             |  0.542% |
 | 188  | Masquerain         |  0.542% |
 | 189  | Articuno           |  0.538% |
 | 190  | Armaldo            |  0.529% |
 | 191  | Uxie               |  0.507% |
 | 192  | Aron               |  0.496% |
 | 193  | Cacturne           |  0.488% |
 | 194  | Drifblim           |  0.486% |
 | 195  | Deoxys-Speed       |  0.473% |
 | 196  | Shedinja           |  0.472% |
 | 197  | Moltres            |  0.453% |
 | 198  | Wobbuffet          |  0.434% |
 | 199  | Sneasel            |  0.434% |
 | 200  | Walrein            |  0.433% |
 | 201  | Rhydon             |  0.428% |
 | 202  | Stoutland          |  0.426% |
 | 203  | Beheeyem           |  0.419% |
 | 204  | Jumpluff           |  0.417% |
 | 205  | Gorebyss           |  0.412% |
 | 206  | Tauros             |  0.411% |
 | 207  | Lopunny            |  0.411% |
 | 208  | Emboar             |  0.409% |
 | 209  | Spiritomb          |  0.403% |
 | 210  | Camerupt           |  0.399% |
 | 211  | Claydol            |  0.393% |
 | 212  | Magmortar          |  0.390% |
 | 213  | Zebstrika          |  0.359% |
 | 214  | Lumineon           |  0.355% |
 | 215  | Pikachu            |  0.345% |
 | 216  | Linoone            |  0.337% |
 | 217  | Rotom-Mow          |  0.332% |
 | 218  | Altaria            |  0.327% |
 | 219  | Durant             |  0.327% |
 | 220  | Relicanth          |  0.321% |
 | 221  | Grotle             |  0.310% |
 | 222  | Xatu               |  0.309% |
 | 223  | Drapion            |  0.304% |
 | 224  | Primeape           |  0.297% |
 | 225  | Alomomola          |  0.297% |
 | 226  | Medicham           |  0.290% |
 | 227  | Mr. Mime           |  0.285% |
 | 228  | Seaking            |  0.280% |
 | 229  | Muk                |  0.277% |
 | 230  | Rapidash           |  0.270% |
 | 231  | Luxray             |  0.269% |
 | 232  | Regice             |  0.266% |
 | 233  | Hitmonlee          |  0.262% |
 | 234  | Weezing            |  0.261% |
 | 235  | Cobalion           |  0.260% |
 | 236  | Samurott           |  0.258% |
 | 237  | Shaymin            |  0.250% |
 | 238  | Audino             |  0.245% |
 | 239  | Feraligatr         |  0.244% |
 | 240  | Braviary           |  0.237% |
 | 241  | Arbok              |  0.228% |
 | 242  | Beartic            |  0.224% |
 | 243  | Nidoqueen          |  0.221% |
 | 244  | Seismitoad         |  0.221% |
 | 245  | Floatzel           |  0.210% |
 | 246  | Volbeat            |  0.209% |
 | 247  | Druddigon          |  0.208% |
 | 248  | Bouffalant         |  0.206% |
 | 249  | Maractus           |  0.205% |
 | 250  | Accelgor           |  0.202% |
 | 251  | Quagsire           |  0.201% |
 | 252  | Scyther            |  0.196% |
 | 253  | Emolga             |  0.195% |
 | 254  | Electrode          |  0.195% |
 | 255  | Cryogonal          |  0.192% |
 | 256  | Plusle             |  0.191% |
 | 257  | Persian            |  0.185% |
 | 258  | Meganium           |  0.184% |
 | 259  | Golduck            |  0.181% |
 | 260  | Swoobat            |  0.179% |
 | 261  | Klinklang          |  0.178% |
 | 262  | Seviper            |  0.174% |
 | 263  | Mandibuzz          |  0.164% |
 | 264  | Scolipede          |  0.164% |
 | 265  | Crustle            |  0.159% |
 | 266  | Hitmonchan         |  0.155% |
 | 267  | Registeel          |  0.147% |
 | 268  | Deoxys             |  0.146% |
 | 269  | Minun              |  0.145% |
 | 270  | Gothorita          |  0.142% |
 | 271  | Hypno              |  0.139% |
 | 272  | Crawdaunt          |  0.139% |
 | 273  | Basculin           |  0.137% |
 | 274  | Golem              |  0.137% |
 | 275  | Carracosta         |  0.131% |
 | 276  | Wailord            |  0.129% |
 | 277  | Kangaskhan         |  0.124% |
 | 278  | Mesprit            |  0.123% |
 | 279  | Probopass          |  0.118% |
 | 280  | Tropius            |  0.118% |
 | 281  | Butterfree         |  0.116% |
 | 282  | Pidgeot            |  0.115% |
 | 283  | Furret             |  0.111% |
 | 284  | Dragonair          |  0.107% |
 | 285  | Bastiodon          |  0.105% |
 | 286  | Entei              |  0.104% |
 | 287  | Dodrio             |  0.097% |
 | 288  | Vulpix             |  0.094% |
 | 289  | Swellow            |  0.093% |
 | 290  | Bibarel            |  0.091% |
 | 291  | Sawk               |  0.091% |
 | 292  | Zangoose           |  0.089% |
 | 293  | Magneton           |  0.088% |
 | 294  | Sunflora           |  0.087% |
 | 295  | Regirock           |  0.087% |
 | 296  | Swanna             |  0.087% |
 | 297  | Purrloin           |  0.086% |
 | 298  | Vanilluxe          |  0.085% |
 | 299  | Huntail            |  0.085% |
 | 300  | Phione             |  0.082% |
 | 301  | Golbat             |  0.081% |
 | 302  | Dewgong            |  0.081% |
 | 303  | Miltank            |  0.080% |
 | 304  | Girafarig          |  0.080% |
 | 305  | Zweilous           |  0.075% |
 | 306  | Banette            |  0.074% |
 | 307  | Sandslash          |  0.071% |
 | 308  | Torkoal            |  0.069% |
 | 309  | Skuntank           |  0.068% |
 | 310  | Castform           |  0.068% |
 | 311  | Rotom              |  0.067% |
 | 312  | Lunatone           |  0.066% |
 | 313  | Wigglytuff         |  0.064% |
 | 314  | Dunsparce          |  0.062% |
 | 315  | Pinsir             |  0.062% |
 | 316  | Purugly            |  0.059% |
 | 317  | Kingler            |  0.058% |
 | 318  | Qwilfish           |  0.058% |
 | 319  | Granbull           |  0.056% |
 | 320  | Glalie             |  0.056% |
 | 321  | Vileplume          |  0.055% |
 | 322  | Clamperl           |  0.054% |
 | 323  | Pichu              |  0.053% |
 | 324  | Whiscash           |  0.052% |
 | 325  | Rotom-Fan          |  0.052% |
 | 326  | Beautifly          |  0.048% |
 | 327  | Riolu              |  0.045% |
 | 328  | Kecleon            |  0.045% |
 | 329  | Wartortle          |  0.044% |
 | 330  | Vespiquen          |  0.044% |
 | 331  | Vanillish          |  0.044% |
 | 332  | Clefairy           |  0.044% |
 | 333  | Bayleef            |  0.043% |
 | 334  | Noctowl            |  0.043% |
 | 335  | Carnivine          |  0.043% |
 | 336  | Throh              |  0.042% |
 | 337  | Heatmor            |  0.041% |
 | 338  | Solrock            |  0.041% |
 | 339  | Onix               |  0.040% |
 | 340  | Swalot             |  0.039% |
 | 341  | Misdreavus         |  0.039% |
 | 342  | Exploud            |  0.038% |
 | 343  | Numel              |  0.038% |
 | 344  | Mothim             |  0.038% |
 | 345  | Gligar             |  0.038% |
 | 346  | Grumpig            |  0.037% |
 | 347  | Pelipper           |  0.037% |
 | 348  | Raticate           |  0.037% |
 | 349  | Delibird           |  0.037% |
 | 350  | Igglybuff          |  0.037% |
 | 351  | Corsola            |  0.036% |
 | 352  | Munchlax           |  0.036% |
 | 353  | Bellossom          |  0.036% |
 | 354  | Pachirisu          |  0.036% |
 | 355  | Mightyena          |  0.035% |
 | 356  | Lampent            |  0.034% |
 | 357  | Servine            |  0.032% |
 | 358  | Ledian             |  0.032% |
 | 359  | Stantler           |  0.032% |
 | 360  | Magcargo           |  0.031% |
 | 361  | Chikorita          |  0.031% |
 | 362  | Haunter            |  0.030% |
 | 363  | Stunfisk           |  0.030% |
 | 364  | Electabuzz         |  0.029% |
 | 365  | Rattata            |  0.029% |
 | 366  | Garbodor           |  0.029% |
 | 367  | Piloswine          |  0.028% |
 | 368  | Unfezant           |  0.028% |
 | 369  | Combusken          |  0.026% |
 | 370  | Magikarp           |  0.026% |
 | 371  | Simisage           |  0.025% |
 | 372  | Ferroseed          |  0.025% |
 | 373  | Quilava            |  0.022% |
 | 374  | Diglett            |  0.021% |
 | 375  | Chatot             |  0.021% |
 | 376  | Tangela            |  0.021% |
 | 377  | Sudowoodo          |  0.020% |
 | 378  | Simisear           |  0.020% |
 | 379  | Wynaut             |  0.019% |
 | 380  | Kadabra            |  0.019% |
 | 381  | Shelgon            |  0.018% |
 | 382  | Cacnea             |  0.018% |
 | 383  | Luvdisc            |  0.018% |
 | 384  | Darumaka           |  0.017% |
 | 385  | Eevee              |  0.017% |
 | 386  | Mawile             |  0.016% |
 | 387  | Graveler           |  0.016% |
 | 388  | Watchog            |  0.016% |
 | 389  | Jigglypuff         |  0.016% |
 | 390  | Eelektrik          |  0.016% |
 | 391  | Cottonee           |  0.016% |
 | 392  | Simipour           |  0.015% |
 | 393  | Gible              |  0.015% |
 | 394  | Chimecho           |  0.015% |
 | 395  | Mantyke            |  0.015% |
 | 396  | Beedrill           |  0.014% |
 | 397  | Ledyba             |  0.014% |
 | 398  | Magnemite          |  0.014% |
 | 399  | Charmeleon         |  0.013% |
 | 400  | Grovyle            |  0.013% |
 | 401  | Magmar             |  0.013% |
 | 402  | Abra               |  0.013% |
 | 403  | Paras              |  0.013% |
 | 404  | Fearow             |  0.013% |
 | 405  | Tepig              |  0.012% |
 | 406  | Prinplup           |  0.012% |
 | 407  | Lileep             |  0.012% |
 | 408  | Happiny            |  0.012% |
 | 409  | Klang              |  0.012% |
 | 410  | Ivysaur            |  0.011% |
 | 411  | Chinchou           |  0.011% |
 | 412  | Shellder           |  0.011% |
 | 413  | Gurdurr            |  0.011% |
 | 414  | Flaaffy            |  0.011% |
 | 415  | Metang             |  0.011% |
 | 416  | Lickitung          |  0.011% |
 | 417  | Dustox             |  0.011% |
 | 418  | Piplup             |  0.011% |
 | 419  | Slowpoke           |  0.011% |
 | 420  | Azurill            |  0.010% |
 | 421  | Pignite            |  0.009% |
 | 422  | Squirtle           |  0.009% |
 | 423  | Aipom              |  0.009% |
 | 424  | Mime Jr.           |  0.009% |
 | 425  | Delcatty           |  0.009% |
 | 426  | Omanyte            |  0.008% |
 | 427  | Mareep             |  0.008% |
 | 428  | Ariados            |  0.008% |
 | 429  | Wormadam-Trash     |  0.008% |
 | 430  | Bulbasaur          |  0.008% |
 | 431  | Buneary            |  0.008% |
 | 432  | Zorua              |  0.008% |
 | 433  | Shroomish          |  0.007% |
 | 434  | Mienfoo            |  0.007% |
 | 435  | Feebas             |  0.007% |
 | 436  | Frillish           |  0.007% |
 | 437  | Nosepass           |  0.007% |
 | 438  | Wormadam           |  0.007% |
 | 439  | Togepi             |  0.007% |
 | 440  | Ponyta             |  0.007% |
 | 441  | Snover             |  0.007% |
 | 442  | Sunkern            |  0.007% |
 | 443  | Starly             |  0.006% |
 | 444  | Houndour           |  0.006% |
 | 445  | Cubchoo            |  0.006% |
 | 446  | Elekid             |  0.006% |
 | 447  | Gastly             |  0.006% |
 | 448  | Lairon             |  0.006% |
 | 449  | Porygon            |  0.006% |
 | 450  | Minccino           |  0.006% |
 | 451  | Snivy              |  0.006% |
 | 452  | Metapod            |  0.006% |
 | 453  | Tynamo             |  0.005% |
 | 454  | Torchic            |  0.005% |
 | 455  | Voltorb            |  0.005% |
 | 456  | Duosion            |  0.005% |
 | 457  | Joltik             |  0.005% |
 | 458  | Trubbish           |  0.005% |
 | 459  | Teddiursa          |  0.005% |
 | 460  | Wormadam-Sandy     |  0.005% |
 | 461  | Whirlipede         |  0.005% |
 | 462  | Cyndaquil          |  0.005% |
 | 463  | Totodile           |  0.005% |
 | 464  | Charmander         |  0.005% |
 | 465  | Hippopotas         |  0.005% |
 | 466  | Dewott             |  0.005% |
 | 467  | Scraggy            |  0.004% |
 | 468  | Sewaddle           |  0.004% |
 | 469  | Geodude            |  0.004% |
 | 470  | Kricketot          |  0.004% |
 | 471  | Fraxure            |  0.004% |
 | 472  | Pineco             |  0.004% |
 | 473  | Drilbur            |  0.004% |
 | 474  | Vigoroth           |  0.004% |
 | 475  | Herdier            |  0.004% |
 | 476  | Monferno           |  0.004% |
 | 477  | Swadloon           |  0.004% |
 | 478  | Shinx              |  0.004% |
 | 479  | Zubat              |  0.003% |
 | 480  | Hoppip             |  0.003% |
 | 481  | Axew               |  0.003% |
 | 482  | Croagunk           |  0.003% |
 | 483  | Rufflet            |  0.003% |
 | 484  | Poliwhirl          |  0.003% |
 | 485  | Weedle             |  0.003% |
 | 486  | Larvitar           |  0.003% |
 | 487  | Combee             |  0.003% |
 | 488  | Budew              |  0.003% |
 | 489  | Tranquill          |  0.003% |
 | 490  | Psyduck            |  0.003% |
 | 491  | Vibrava            |  0.003% |
 | 492  | Litwick            |  0.003% |
 | 493  | Machoke            |  0.003% |
 | 494  | Growlithe          |  0.003% |
 | 495  | Buizel             |  0.003% |
 | 496  | Meditite           |  0.003% |
 | 497  | Yamask             |  0.002% |
 | 498  | Treecko            |  0.002% |
 | 499  | Farfetch'd         |  0.002% |
 | 500  | Poochyena          |  0.002% |
 | 501  | Oshawott           |  0.002% |
 | 502  | Stunky             |  0.002% |
 | 503  | Seedot             |  0.002% |
 | 504  | Surskit            |  0.002% |
 | 505  | Gabite             |  0.002% |
 | 506  | Deino              |  0.002% |
 | 507  | Boldore            |  0.002% |
 | 508  | Cranidos           |  0.002% |
 | 509  | Palpitoad          |  0.002% |
 | 510  | Mudkip             |  0.002% |
 | 511  | Staryu             |  0.002% |
 | 512  | Oddish             |  0.002% |
 | 513  | Pidgeotto          |  0.002% |
 | 514  | Kabuto             |  0.002% |
 | 515  | Snorunt            |  0.002% |
 | 516  | Larvesta           |  0.002% |
 | 517  | Sentret            |  0.002% |
 | 518  | Munna              |  0.002% |
 | 519  | Chimchar           |  0.002% |
 | 520  | Magby              |  0.002% |
 | 521  | Pupitar            |  0.002% |
 | 522  | Loudred            |  0.002% |
 | 523  | Wailmer            |  0.002% |
 | 524  | Nuzleaf            |  0.002% |
 | 525  | Skitty             |  0.002% |
 | 526  | Corphish           |  0.002% |
 | 527  | Kricketune         |  0.002% |
 | 528  | Drifloon           |  0.002% |
 | 529  | Anorith            |  0.002% |
 | 530  | Pidgey             |  0.002% |
 | 531  | Kirlia             |  0.001% |
 | 532  | Pidove             |  0.001% |
 | 533  | Bidoof             |  0.001% |
 | 534  | Swinub             |  0.001% |
 | 535  | Cherubi            |  0.001% |
 | 536  | Bellsprout         |  0.001% |
 | 537  | Tyrogue            |  0.001% |
 | 538  | Karrablast         |  0.001% |
 | 539  | Blitzle            |  0.001% |
 | 540  | Doduo              |  0.001% |
 | 541  | Shuppet            |  0.001% |
 | 542  | Unown              |  0.001% |
 | 543  | Archen             |  0.001% |
 | 544  | Natu               |  0.001% |
 | 545  | Taillow            |  0.001% |
 | 546  | Lombre             |  0.001% |
 | 547  | Slakoth            |  0.001% |
 | 548  | Nincada            |  0.001% |
 | 549  | Glameow            |  0.001% |
 | 550  | Wooper             |  0.001% |
 | 551  | Baltoy             |  0.001% |
 | 552  | Spheal             |  0.001% |
 | 553  | Kakuna             |  0.001% |
 | 554  | Koffing            |  0.001% |
 | 555  | Venonat            |  0.001% |
 | 556  | Beldum             |  0.001% |
 | 557  | Mankey             |  0.001% |
 | 558  | Seadra             |  0.001% |
 | 559  | Phanpy             |  0.001% |
 | 560  | Timburr            |  0.001% |
 | 561  | Woobat             |  0.001% |
 | 562  | Pansear            |  0.001% |
 | 563  | Panpour            |  0.001% |
 | 564  | Bagon              |  0.001% |
 | 565  | Foongus            |  0.001% |
 | 566  | Spoink             |  0.001% |
 | 567  | Cascoon            |  0.001% |
 | 568  | Silcoon            |  0.001% |
 | 569  | Exeggcute          |  0.001% |
 | 570  | Makuhita           |  0.001% |
 | 571  | Spinarak           |  0.001% |
 | 572  | Caterpie           |  0.001% |
 | 573  | Deerling           |  0.001% |
 | 574  | NidoranM           |  0.001% |
 | 575  | Luxio              |  0.000% |
 | 576  | Pansage            |  0.000% |
 | 577  | Slugma             |  0.000% |
 | 578  | Poliwag            |  0.000% |
 | 579  | Bronzor            |  0.000% |
 | 580  | Ducklett           |  0.000% |
 | 581  | Golett             |  0.000% |
 | 582  | Cubone             |  0.000% |
 | 583  | Rhyhorn            |  0.000% |
 | 584  | Goldeen            |  0.000% |
 | 585  | Staravia           |  0.000% |
 | 586  | Marshtomp          |  0.000% |
 | 587  | Sandshrew          |  0.000% |
 | 588  | Machop             |  0.000% |
 | 589  | Croconaw           |  0.000% |
 | 590  | Elgyem             |  0.000% |
 | 591  | Solosis            |  0.000% |
 | 592  | Hoothoot           |  0.000% |
 | 593  | Dwebble            |  0.000% |
 | 594  | Vanillite          |  0.000% |
 | 595  | Turtwig            |  0.000% |
 | 596  | Roggenrola         |  0.000% |
 | 597  | Yanma              |  0.000% |
 | 598  | Krokorok           |  0.000% |
 | 599  | Marill             |  0.000% |
 + ---- + --------------- + ------- +

UU Banlist:
Abomasnow, Alakazam, Amoonguss, Blaziken, Breloom, Bronzong, Chandelure, Cloyster, Conkeldurr, Cresselia, Dragonite, Dusclops, Espeon, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Garchomp, Gastrodon, Gengar, Gliscor, Gyarados, Heatran, Hitmontop, Hydreigon, Infernape, Jellicent, Jolteon, Kingdra, Kyurem-Black, Landorus-Therian, Latias, Latios, Lucario, Ludicolo, Metagross, Ninetales, Politoed, Reuniclus, Rotom-Wash, Sableye, Salamence, Scizor, Scrafty, Shaymin-Sky, Terrakion, Thundurus, Thundurus-Therian, Togekiss, Tornadus, Toxicroak, Tyranitar, Venusaur, Victini, Volcarona, Whimsicott, Zapdos


The full February statistics, including detailed moveset information and "1850" stats (the new "1337") are available in this month's usage statistics thread.

[StarmanXL]

Am I the only one who actually feels like having a sleeping pokemon in this tier is a huge liability to be avoided at all cost? I mean you probably will have to switch out the poke anyway because 2v1 is never good and you can easily exploit that, probably as good if not better than fake out flinching since the pokemon is more or less out permanently.

Then again I'm still low on the ladder so...

[HabibsHotDogs]

Thanks Antar

Its very interesting that Gastrodon seems to be so popular, its in the league of the weather starters and two of the most reliable support pokemon!

Metagross and Volcarona in top 10 was expected, but I am surprised Garchomp is still there, it'll probably be out by next month... Latios dropped a HUGE amount of places, I wonder why it happened so suddenly?? Conkeldurr has gone up quite a lot which is another surprise. Thundurus at #27 is weird, is everybody overpreparing for it or something? I thought I saw it on more teams than I saw pokemon such as Reuniclus/Kingdra/Dragonite. Also lolled when I saw Espeon at #49. Lol at Charizard being so popular, its nice that stealth rock isn't a dominant strategy in this format, I might try using it next.

[Dia]

Originally Posted by Fat Mr.lol

Trick Room, in my experience, is actually a pretty effective strategy. One of the MOST ANNOYING THINGS about Trick Room is that unlike the other weathers or Tailwind, its nearly impossible to stop (aside Protect / Detect spam but that stops everything) once it gets setup. Trick Room isn't like other weathers where by switching in a Drought user you get rid of an enemy's rain, it distorts the battlefield for 5 turns and there's nothing you can do about it (except maybe go last one turn and leave one mon vulnerable to two mons and use TR to restore the dimensions, but that just sounds bad unless your desperate).

However, what's most annoying about Trick Room is getting it up in the first place X_X. Anyone that's used a Trick Room team pretty much uses a preset plan to prepare to lead it off when going against another team (if I go against sand team I has my Bronzong + Condellekur lead to stop threats), I can't recall who said it earlier, but this is their bane. Its extremely easy to predict what mons are to be used to stop TR prematurely, either by killing the user of TR, Imprison + TR (this quite literally is impossible to stop since it bypasses Mental Herb), Fake Out in the case where Dusclops and Dusknoir and Jellicent are not present, or Taunt (Whimsicott in particular thanks to being able to Encore Trick Room after its been used). Generally speaking, by stopping the two leads, its generally easy to stop the rest of the team, this is the case most of the time in the matches I've had against TR at least (except 1 against exeggutor which managed to do quite well without TR for a while and then he reset it later and things got messy (with and without hax)).

My point is Trick Room teams tends to have their plans planned out beginning from team preview, if they can get away with it they can send the battle into chaos for 4 turns, but this can backfire. Thus, semi-Trick Room teams are the best (at least in my opinion).

Speaking of Semi-Trick Room teams, there's a type of team called an anti-trick room team if I remember correctly, which relies on setting up Trick Room against faster teams and using Imprison to stop enemy trick room teams, I haven't used any so I can't attest very well to their effectiveness but I have seen them used before. If anyone here has used it well I'd think it'd be something to hear :P.

As for prominent users of Trick Room, I've used Musharna and Porygon 2 quite effectively. Musharna really in my opinion shines on Rain teams, since it can sit there and set up Trick Room while boosting the power of Surfs by avoiding damage thanks to telepathy. It can also setup screens or wither the opposition away with Psychics. Its ability to use Imprison to stop Protect and Trick Room is fun too :P. Porygon 2 is one of the most bulkiest Trick Room users around. Its extremely hard to OHKO it, and unlike Cresselia, it gets Recover. To show how bulky it is, this is how much Fighting Gem Terrakion's Close Combat does to it: (85.56 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO. The only problem is relying on Eviolite which makes it fall to Taunt users, and unlike Dusclops, it has no Fake Out immunity. Tracing abilities like Prankster to get priority Recover is hilarious though.

I beg to digress. In VGC, Follow me support was almost a requirement for me to set up a trick room. Here, it was useless to the point where people originally targeted my FM user instead of reuniclus.
For anyone interested, this is my team:
=== Untitled 1 ===

Protoplasm (Reuniclus) @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

Chimahiko (Infernape) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Blaze
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Grass Knot
- Vacuum Wave
- Focus Blast

Vito (Honchkrow) (M) @ Flying Gem
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch
- Superpower
- Roost

Bill (Porygon2) @ Eviolite
Trait: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Recover
- Tri Attack
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Fluffy (Shaymin-Sky) @ Life Orb
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Air Slash
- Earth Power
- Protect

Alpha (Nidoking) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Ice Beam
- Protect
Nidoking, Infernape, and Porygon 2 are very recent additions to my team, and they should do well theoretically. However, theoretically, communism works, so I don't really know how well they'll do. Originally, this team was designed for VGC, but I lost all respect for that metagame when I learned evasion was allowed there.

[Firestorm]

All you're saying is, "You need Follow Me in VGC because, in general, the players are better." That doesn't stop support to get up Trick Room from being important in this format in cases where the player you're playing is half decent.

Sleep is always incredibly powerful but limiting the number is an artificial way of taking care of it. Your team should be taking care of it IMO. There's no way to put more than one Pokemon to sleep at a time with Dark Void banned and you have two Pokemon on the field along with an assortment of items and moves that can help (Lum Berry, Safeguard, Taunt, etc). With Sleep Clause around I find sleep to not be too big a deal as I can just sacrifice my least important member and then not worry about it again.

Trick Room is a great way to deal with Trick Room. Not only can you reverse it as soon as you've taken care of whoever set it down, you can also use it to control speed when you have Pokemon slower than your opponent.

[youngjake93]

Scizor is #10, Sableye is #51, huh?
Also lol Charizard was like .2% away from OU

[Firestorm]

whatthefont will fix this injustice.

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

The hilarious part about Charizard's usage is that it's at #59 in the normal stats and #41 in the 1337 stats. It's certainly far better than in Singles, thanks to the relative scarcity of Stealth Rock and ability to melt two mons at once with Helping Hand Solar Power Heat Waves, but I'm still very surprised to see it higher than the likes of Genesect and Keldeo.

[Braverius]

Originally Posted by Fat DoesntKnowHowToPlay

The hilarious part about Charizard's usage is that it's at #59 in the normal stats and #41 in the 1337 stats.

This is all Firestorm's fault.

[Dia]

Originally Posted by Fat Firestorm

All you're saying is, "You need Follow Me in VGC because, in general, the players are better." That doesn't stop support to get up Trick Room from being important in this format in cases where the player you're playing is half decent.

Sleep is always incredibly powerful but limiting the number is an artificial way of taking care of it. Your team should be taking care of it IMO. There's no way to put more than one Pokemon to sleep at a time with Dark Void banned and you have two Pokemon on the field along with an assortment of items and moves that can help (Lum Berry, Safeguard, Taunt, etc). With Sleep Clause around I find sleep to not be too big a deal as I can just sacrifice my least important member and then not worry about it again.

Trick Room is a great way to deal with Trick Room. Not only can you reverse it as soon as you've taken care of whoever set it down, you can also use it to control speed when you have Pokemon slower than your opponent.

Why should I use a poke that is useless in 9/10 of my battles? If that means assuming the other players are not good, so be it.

[youngjake93]

Originally Posted by Fat Dia

Why should I use a poke that is useless in 9/10 of my battles? If that means assuming the other players are not good, so be it.

If it has slow speed, but not SUPER slow speed. Then you can use it in every battle. Set up TR against normal teams or get rid of TR against full-blown TR teams.
This would work well with Heatran on the team because Heatran is outslowed by opposing TR teams, so you get rid of TR in that scenario, but it is outsped by regular teams so you set TR up in that situation.
I don't think the idea is to just run a TR user to only counter TR. You counter TR plus give your Tyranitar, Amoonguss, etc a boost.

[Mr.lol]

I beg to digress. In VGC, Follow me support was almost a requirement for me to set up a trick room. Here, it was useless to the point where people originally targeted my FM user instead of reuniclus.

Well I would say this was the case before this year, where Fake Out gains the priority of Follow Me. Imprison + TR is still > Follow Me, and if you can OHKO the Follow Me user in one move and then Taunt / OHKO the TR user in another then it really doesn't matter... (ex: Tornadus-I + some Taunt user vs. Amoongus + Cresselia, Amoongus can't use Rage Powder as it will get OHKOed by Flying Gem Acrobatics and Cresselia will be stopped by the incoming Taunt unless Mental Herb (unless flying gem resist berry but)).

Mental Herb I will admit was a boon to TR and support mons in general though.

Can someone delete the random spam.

I forgot to say this earlier but Iron Ball toed, Iron Ball TTar, and Iron Ball Ninetales are EXTREMELY ANNOYING TO TRICKROOM X_X. They manage to underspeed everything and go first ;_;, which causes shenanigans in whether or not setting TR is worth it.

[Chaoswalker]

"Doubles is playable?" I thought to myself. "I better go do that RIGHT NOW."
"Stealth Rock is uncommon?" I thought to myself. "I know one loved mon who hates rocks"

So I decided that it was indeed time for Charizard to enter the fray, and find out if floating pebbles really were the only thing that was keeping him away. I am new to this meta, so my conception of what should work is still a little shakey, but here's what I use:

Charizard: Solar Power, Sitrus Berry
4Hp, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
-Heatwave
-Solar Beam
-Dragon Pulse
-Protect

Latios: Levitate, Heat Rock
252 Hp, 252 Spe
-Sunny Day
-Tailwind
-Heal Pulse
-Protect

Charizard protects the first turn while latios uses Tailwind. Next turn Latios uses Sunny day and Charizard starts spamming. Since you are faster than the opponent, and no priority move has the edge on charizard, there are ample chances to use heal pulse on it. The protect on Latios is because... well that's my filler move right now. The main reason I question this strategy is because heal pulse is uncommon... so perhaps I'm wasting my time with that and could be using a better move? If heal pulse is silly, I could give it an attack, or swap latios for something like Togekiss/Volcarona who can perform the same setup and draw moves with follow me/rage powder. Maybe I could use something bulkier, like Dragonite, Skarmory, Mandibuzz or Gliscor, or use Murkrow who has access to taunt.

[Level 51]

Terribly sorry for my inactivity, I've been (and continue to be) really busy with IRL and Smog work. While I'm here though I'm just gonna advertise this mini-tournament I'm hosting for Doubles. I'd love if there were at least 32 or so people (which I think is an achievable goal seeing the activity this thread experiences), but the more the merrier! ^_^

[Pwnemon]

Originally Posted by Fat Chaoswalker

"Doubles is playable?" I thought to myself. "I better go do that RIGHT NOW."
"Stealth Rock is uncommon?" I thought to myself. "I know one loved mon who hates rocks"

So I decided that it was indeed time for Charizard to enter the fray, and find out if floating pebbles really were the only thing that was keeping him away. I am new to this meta, so my conception of what should work is still a little shakey, but here's what I use:

Charizard: Solar Power, Sitrus Berry
4Hp, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
-Heatwave
-Solar Beam
-Dragon Pulse
-Protect

Latios: Levitate, Heat Rock
252 Hp, 252 Spe
-Sunny Day
-Tailwind
-Heal Pulse
-Protect

Charizard protects the first turn while latios uses Tailwind. Next turn Latios uses Sunny day and Charizard starts spamming. Since you are faster than the opponent, and no priority move has the edge on charizard, there are ample chances to use heal pulse on it. The protect on Latios is because... well that's my filler move right now. The main reason I question this strategy is because heal pulse is uncommon... so perhaps I'm wasting my time with that and could be using a better move? If heal pulse is silly, I could give it an attack, or swap latios for something like Togekiss/Volcarona who can perform the same setup and draw moves with follow me/rage powder. Maybe I could use something bulkier, like Dragonite, Skarmory, Mandibuzz or Gliscor, or use Murkrow who has access to taunt.

I'm sorry, but the main evidence this is a strategy doomed to fail is that it requires latios and charizard to consistently be on the field at the same time, and the setup is absurdly long. What if a hitmontop fakes out your Latios t1? What if someone sets Trick Room? what if the opponent has a Heatran (which you can't even hit, hardly). To steal from my smog article (sorry, shameless self-promotion)

Your opponent's team has a win strategy out of the gate too, and I guarantee it's in direct conflict with yours, so the most important thing to remember when teambuilding is that you can't always bank on hail, screens, or Trick Room being up when you want them.

Basically, any strategy that requires two pokemon doing specific things on the field at the same time will fail—if they can interact in neat ways, good; if they MUST interact in neat ways, bad. *COUGH* terracott *COUGH*

[Joim]

Originally Posted by Fat StarmanXL

Interesting that you mention Conkeldurr. I'm not gonna say he's not a great TR poke because he is, but what about Hariyama? It's not as strong or as slow, but it's still pretty fierce with Guts boosted STAB Close Combats coming from a base 120 attack.

I share Mr.E's opinion on this, Conkeldurr is just too good to ditch it for a Fake Out or slightly stronger attack that nerfs you.

Also, Pocket, I used to use Guts to both avoid burn attack drop and other status, paralysed, even making you TR-faster can hax you to death and sleep is basically an OHKO move. However, I'm now using Iron Fist Life Orb Conkeldurr and I must say I'm happy and impressed with it. Btw, is there any chance to see one day Doubles analyses? Because I'd love to write one or two, lol.

I made a new TR team and it's doing well, by now I've won about 12 matches in a row, no loses yet. As you can see, I'm using Eggy's Kyube:

TR team

---

Cresselia (F) @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Psychic
- Helping Hand
- Safeguard

Heatran @ Chople Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 2 Spd
- Eruption
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

Slowbro @ Mental Herb
Trait: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 244 HP / 156 SAtk / 108 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Protect

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Trait: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 172 HP / 28 Def / 252 SAtk / 56 SDef
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spd
- Trick Room
- Psyshock
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Conkelderp (Conkeldurr) @ Life Orb
Trait: Iron Fist
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Drain Punch
- Rock Slide
- Mach Punch
- Detect

Kyurem-Black @ Chople Berry
Trait: Teravolt
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Dragon Claw
- Earth Power
- Fusion Bolt
- Protect

I chose the best spread for Heatran to have HP Ice 70 (30 Spe), and the 0 IVs on attack on non attackers is to have the least confusion damage possible.

Regarding usage, it's not surprising that Politoed reigns thanks to Swift Swim and even Trick Room water teams, which wreck, but I thought Cresselia would be the top 1.

[Jean mi]

For the lulz, here's a power trick room shuckle sweep here :

http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/repla...oubles11023009

I admit this strategy rarely works but when it does, it's awesome :p. Even if shuckle doesn't do anything, I can still win thanks to TR being an effective strategy :p.

[youngjake93]

The 1850 compared to standard stats are interesting.
Gastrodon is #1 for good users apparently. Kyurem-Black is high up, DrizzleSwim is high up, Ttar+Exca, Ferrothorn, Cresselia+Musharna.
Three that interest me are Slowking, Chandelure and Heracross have a high differential.
So high ranked players use these more? Slowking is obviously for Trick Room+Regenerator and special bulk. I guess that makes sense over Slowbro since you can pair it with Intimidate. Chandelure and Heracross hit pretty hard, does Heracross get any support options like Chandelure?

[Chaoswalker]

Your opponent's team has a win strategy out of the gate too, and I guarantee it's in direct conflict with yours, so the most important thing to remember when teambuilding is that you can't always bank on hail, screens, or Trick Room being up when you want them.

I see. Well that's annoying. I suppose I'll have to apply more tcg style strategies here then. (not bad annoying. Just new annoying.)

Also, how viable are trapping moves here? Moves like Whirlpool are garbage in singles due to low base power, and by the time the move is fired off you are already facing the wrong Mon. Here though, a trapper can stay in while the partner switches out. I suppose the trapping and the switch would have to occur on the same turn or it is too slow. Basically a way of deciding who the switch in will be fighting. It could make keeping Tyranitar in at all a potential mistake.

[Audiosurfer]

Further on the topic of the week, there was a Smogon Doubles teambat on #pokemon with a theme of no weather, and since both teams predicted the other to use TR, there were many different strategies employed to try and check/counter TR.

Team 1 used things like Scizor to heavily damage the Psychic types that primarily set up TR as well as a Roar Latios set to phaze out TR setters before they could use TR. Team 2 used Imprison Chandelure to prevent opposing TR setters from using the move TR as well as a Scizor of their own. Both teams also emplyed Fake Out support from Hitmontop, which would let them prevent opposing mons from setting up TR first turn.

Team 2's team was also a semi-TR team, employing 1 TR setter and various mons that can work well in TR, but don't need it to function (such as Kyurem-B). The battle shows the viability of such a teamstyle in that it was able to adjust itself to various scenarios when the time called for it, and was able to function in many different conditions.

While TR can be difficult to full on counter, there are many ways to be creative and check it and have effective responses to it that don't necessarily weigh down the team. One can simply tweak movesets to help against TR teams without having to have a dedicated TR counter, and the teambat was a nice example of that.

Exeggutor vs. Pwnemon (Teambat Replay)

Teams 1 & 2:

...

---

Volcarona (F) @ Charti Berry
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Heat Wave
- Quiver Dance
- Protect

Hitmontop (M) @ Fighting Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Wide Guard
- Close Combat
- Helping Hand

Cresselia (F) @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpAtk / 252 SDef
Nature
- Psyshock
- Rest
- Helping Hand
- Icy wind

Latios (M) @ Dragon Gem
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
-Roar
-Dragon Pulse
-Hidden power [Fire]

Scizor (M) @ Metal Coat
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bug Bite
- Bullet Punch
- Protect

Rotom-W @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Protect

_________________________________

Chandelure @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Imprison
- Trick Room
- Heat Wave
- Shadow Ball

Hitmontop @ fighting Gem
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Fake Out
- Wide Guard
- Helping Hand

Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw
- Outrage
- Rock Slide

Rotom-Wash @ Sitrus Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hydro Pump
- Pain Split
- Thunderbolt

Scizor @ Life orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Feint
- U-turn
- Superpower

Thundurus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

[Dia]

Originally Posted by Fat youngjake93

If it has slow speed, but not SUPER slow speed. Then you can use it in every battle. Set up TR against normal teams or get rid of TR against full-blown TR teams.
This would work well with Heatran on the team because Heatran is outslowed by opposing TR teams, so you get rid of TR in that scenario, but it is outsped by regular teams so you set TR up in that situation.
I don't think the idea is to just run a TR user to only counter TR. You counter TR plus give your Tyranitar, Amoonguss, etc a boost.

I don't counter TR lol. Im talking about togetic, who cannot set up TR. Did you read the post with my team?
Joim, why do you carry three mons with TR? I mean, battles are pretty quick, and if your TR runs out, I'd just use a cleaner. I don't mean to criticize you, I just thought it would be different to see different TR styles.

[Joim]

I have three TR setters just in case I have to switch one or one is early killed and my TR is Protect stalled. I've found it useful, despite Kyu-b being able to work outside TR, and Conkeldurr to some extent with Mach Punch.