(VGC) My first ever VGC Team - Feedback needed!

Osharlock · Dec 27th, 2012, 3:37:21 PM

Hey there everyone, I was wondering if you could analyse my team for VGC this year? This is my first competition and I'm nervous as heck. I've been practicing this team over and over using online simulators, and it seems to work really well, but I have a feeling something's missing...Help please?

My team is as follows:

Porygon2

...

Metagross

...

Thundurus

...

Politoed

...

Cresselia

...

Hitmontop

...

CURRENTLY IN LIMBO

Blaziken

...

Staraptor

...

Gengar

...

Espeon

...

I have been greatly considering using Ninetails with Drought instead of a poke on my team, but I'm really not sure. Any general feedback would be greatly appreciated.

morningsun · Dec 27th, 2012, 4:13:33 PM

Why not use Shadow Ball on your Espeon?

Osharlock · Dec 27th, 2012, 4:21:29 PM

That's a good point - If I'm stuck into Hidden Power Ghost I might as well use Shadow Ball. Any other suggestions mate? Thanks for the feedback also!

**voodoo pimp** · Dec 27th, 2012, 8:11:11 PM

The first thing I notice is that your team is mostly fast and frail, which makes it really vulnerable to Trick Room, especially since you have no way of countering it other than Thundurus's Taunt or trying to OHKO the user. While it's not a great solution, the easiest way to deal with it without significantly changing your team would be to teach Trick Room to Porygon2. That way, if the opponent does manage to get it up, you can just reverse it on the following turn.

Espeon seems really redundant with Gengar and Metagross (especially with a less than ideal nature) - it shares two weaknesses with Gengar, while having overlapping coverage with both. I would consider replacing it with either Cresselia, the standard dual screener (though it keeps the weaknesses) or Rotom-W, which has much better typing and bulk and also helps you deal with rain and Trick Room better.

Thundurus should have Thunderbolt instead of Thunder on any non-rain team; the extra power is not at all worth the drop in accuracy, especially in a tournament format where every battle matters so you can't afford to miss.

I used Scarf Staraptor on my team in the last Wi-Fi tournament, and I have to recommend trying out Reckless instead of Intimidate. It has enough power to OHKO just about any Pokémon without significant defensive investment, and a KO'd Pokémon is obviously much less threatening than one at -1 Atk, especially considering how many of the top threats in the format are special attackers. But that's largely a matter of preference, both abilities are perfectly viable. If you do end up using Reckless, be sure to give it Double-Edge instead of Return.

Osharlock · Dec 28th, 2012, 6:25:38 AM

I'm not overly keen on teaching trick room to Porygon2, as I do believe this set works out perfectly. However, you are right about the trick room problem - Whilst trying this team out in simulators I've stumbled upon one or two trick room teams, but managed to cope (slightly). I agree with you on that statement.

You're right about Espeon in that sense, but I'm reluctant to let it go due to it's magic bounce ability, but as you said, Cresselia might be a better choice if I'm using it for dual screens. I'm not overly keen on Rotom-W, but in that sense I've noticed a lack of water moves on my team, so it may be a good choice (Especially with that handy volt switch if need be.)

Once again, Thundurus I'm not overly keen on, but I understand it's immense power. Do you think it's worth using him? What about a drought ninetales?

I'll make sure to do that then - I have noticed Staraptor fainting quite quickly due to the damage from Brave Bird, so perhaps a recklass one would be better. The frustrating thing about that however is that I no longer have intimidate, preventing me from switching it in to protect over pokemon, or forcing the opponent to switch out.

Thank you for the feedback also, is there any more adjustments you believe is needed?

Level 51 · Dec 29th, 2012, 10:13:27 AM

Looking over your team, I think the most obvious things that might deserve changing are:

Leftovers on Gengar. Gengar isn't going to be surviving long anyway (as you mentioned yourself); why bother with Leftovers? A Life Orb or a Ghost Gem are options you may want to consider.
Hi Jump Kick on Blaziken just doesn't belong. With all the protecting going on in VGC, chances are you'll kill yourself of crash damage before you can deal any good damage to your opponents.
Focus Sash on Blaziken. With Flare Blitz, you'll either (a) survive a hit and then kill yourself with recoil, or (b) shoot off a Flare Blitz and then die to an opponent's attack. Not an ideal scenario.
In fact, you may want to consider getting rid of Blaziken entirely. VGC is an incredibly fast-paced metagame; Speed Boost and Swords Dance won't have enough time to be useful. I would like to suggest using Infernape as a useful replacement; besides also keeping Flare Blitz (or Overheat as a good alternative!), it can use the much more reliable Close Combat and the really useful Fake Out.

In summary:
Gengar's Leftovers --> Ghost Gem/Life Orb
Blaziken --> Mixed Attacker (Fake Out/Overheat/Close Combat/Protect or something) Infernape

**voodoo pimp** · Dec 29th, 2012, 1:53:32 PM

When I used Blaziken, I found a mixed set with Heat Wave/HJK/HP Ice to be pretty effective. You have to predict Protects so you don't kill yourself, but they're usually pretty obvious so that just takes a bit of experience. Low Kick is a safer option, but when I tested it I found the power to be lacking sometimes.

At this point, my main concern is that you still don't really have any way of dealing with Trick Room - in fact, getting rid of Thundurus made it even worse since you lost your Taunter.

Osharlock · Dec 29th, 2012, 2:07:02 PM

@Level 51,

You're right about the Gengar scenario, I should have noticed that myself really. I'll try having a life orb instead of leftovers, and then experiment with the ghost gem also. I wonder if a fighting gem for the surprise focus blast would be useful...

And as for Blaziken, once again, you may be right. I've used Blaziken in singles and it has always done me well, but in VGC it might not fit, as you said. But Infernape isn't much of an option either in my opinion due to how frail it is - What about Lucario? (Both are frail, but Lucario might be a better choice due better attack? Also, I could get the +4 Beat Up boost due to Justified, but that would require me removing ANOTHER pokemon. Then again Infernape is faster)

@Voodoo Pimp,

A mixed set Blaziken actually sounds quite interesting - I'll try that out before I get rid of Blaziken entirely. If I get rid of Blaziken, I could go back to Thundurus. Perhaps I could teach Trick Room to Porygon2 like you suggested, but then what do I get rid of, Ice Beam or Thunderbolt? Either one makes me unable to counter one more pokemon, but to be fair Porygon2 is more support then anything else.

Another thought, What if I replaced Staraptor with a leftovers drizzle Politoed? I've tried it a few times and it seems to work, but what's your thoughts? It's mainly to counter sand teams.

Golden Piloswine · Dec 31st, 2012, 11:47:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Osharlock

Another thought, What if I replaced Staraptor with a leftovers drizzle Politoed? I've tried it a few times and it seems to work, but what's your thoughts? It's mainly to counter sand teams.

Well if it strikes your fancy go ahead. Be sure not to chose Blaziken with Politoed though. You could also replace Thunderbolt, with Thunder on Porygon2 to dish out more damage.

chuavechito · Jan 1st, 2013, 1:34:15 AM

Why Trace over Download?

Download has 50% chance of providing an usefull +.5 SpA for both of his moves while the bast majority of the abilities Trace could copy are kind of useless on P2 (or at last, worst than Download).

Also, if you bring Politoed over Staraptor you should also switch Blaziken for Thundurus.

Golden Piloswine · Jan 1st, 2013, 2:13:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat chuavechito

Why Trace over Download?

Download has 50% chance of providing an usefull +.5 SpA for both of his moves while the bast majority of the abilities Trace could copy are kind of useless on P2 (or at last, worst than Download).

Also, if you bring Politoed over Staraptor you should also switch Blaziken for Thundurus.

Blaziken provides useful Fire/Fighting coverage, and even better with STAB. Have you heard of switches in VGC? It removes + or - to any stat, as well as other ailments like confusion. Trace is more useful, and with common Pokemon who boast great ability's like levitate, Sand Veil, and Inner Focus, it's more worth wile than a 50% of a special attack increase. Someone please chime in if I'm missing something, or am incorrect in regards to Trace v. Download. Starraptor is kind of frail, so a bulky Politoed would be useful since a switch in combination with a partner move can destroy Starraptor. - Or a Scizor Bullet punch...

Flygon45 · Jan 1st, 2013, 2:37:36 AM

Your Porygon 2 needs Tri-Attack as STAB and use this move instead of Thunderbolt because Thunderbolt is really a waste since you already have an Electric type on your team and get its Ability to be Download for most of the time it's SpA will r.aise

chuavechito · Jan 1st, 2013, 3:00:19 AM

The usage goes 50% for Trace, 30% for Download and 20% for Analitic with a 10%+/- difference from month to month. This is afaik from PO, we dont have VGC usage stats from smogon yet.

However, if you really want to go with what are peoples thoughts on T v D you should known that the standar set is Ice Beam, Trick Room, Recover and a 4th move that can be either Thunder (Rain teams) or Thunderbolt, with Tri Attack and Protect seen some play here and there.

And, my opinion about T v D: This are the most 20 used pokemons in VGC, next their most used abilities, next how useful would they be on Porygon2:
* Cressleia - Levitate - Useless
* Metagross - Clear Body - Useless
* Tyranitar - Sand Stream - Useless
* Hitmontop - Intimidate - Usefull
* Garchomp - Sand Veil - kind of Usefull (needs Sandstorm, obviously, and even so is unreliable)
* Zapdos - Pressure - Useless
* Scizor - Technician - Useless
* Chandelure - Flash Fire - Usefull
* Thundurus - Prankster - kind of suboptimal compared to Download, specially on the standar set (I wouldnt run TWave regardless). I cant imagine how priority Recover could be better than +1 SpA.
* Politoed - Drizzle - Useless
* Latios - Levitate - Useless
* Hydreigon - Levitate - Useless
* Water Absorb - Water Aborb - Usefull
* Rotom-W - Levitate - Useless
* Abomasnow - Snow Warning - Useless
* Terrakion - Justified - Useless
* Ludicolo - Swift Swim - kind of useless, since it cant outspeed Ludicolo, even after SSwim.
* Gastrodon - Storm Drain - Usefull
* Dragonite - Inner Focus - Useless
* Whimsicott - Prankster - again, kind of suboptimal compared to Download, specially on the standar set (I wouldnt run TWave regardless). I cant imagine how priority Recover could be better than +1 SpA.

Btw, "Useless" means almost no use whatsoever on Porygon2 against that specific pokemon. It doesnt talk about the ability itself. Levitate is useless on him because he has no weakness to Ground and Ground is not a common type on the said Levitate pokemons. In fact in order to be usefull you would need them to have a EQ poke, a Levitate poke, you should be lucky enough to get the Levitate and then the only thing you accomplish is disabling them 1 move (against Porygon2 only). Is not even a reliable switch in to aborb the EQ since you may not get hte Levitate.

Soooo: 4 Usefull and 4 arguably usefull on 20 pokemons (I could go on but the constant of usefull/useless remains the same). Considering Trace gives you the ability at random odds are you are getting a useless ability. This is why me (and another 50% of the comunity) dont like Trace.

Golden Piloswine · Jan 1st, 2013, 2:49:58 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peLn48i-Wag

Please tell me why Download is better. Get this through your head, it's not like Porygon2 is part flying, Levitate is useful. Not taking damage from an EQ can save you a turn of recover.

Prankster is good for T-Wave, and people do run it.

Inner Focus prevents against flinching, i.e. Fake Out.

No one cares if it outspeeds Ludicolo, it's a great method of speed increase if your not running TR. - Swift Swim

Justified is kind of useless, but if a sucker punch happens from top or Bisharp it can have some use, but not very much.

Clear Body is useful in the same way as Justified, not much, but maybe some.

I have never seen a Download Porygon2 in VGC, please tell me why protection against ground types is useless, because it's not.

Since you like to list things please tell me the other 50% of the community, and if they play VGC or not.

Download does have some use but I think Trace is better.

Osharlock · Jan 2nd, 2013, 3:32:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Golden Piloswine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peLn48i-Wag

Please tell me why Download is better. Get this through your head, it's not like Porygon2 is part flying, Levitate is useful. Not taking damage from an EQ can save you a turn of recover.

Prankster is good for T-Wave, and people do run it.

Inner Focus prevents against flinching, i.e. Fake Out.

No one cares if it outspeeds Ludicolo, it's a great method of speed increase if your not running TR. - Swift Swim

Justified is kind of useless, but if a sucker punch happens from top or Bisharp it can have some use, but not very much.

Clear Body is useful in the same way as Justified, not much, but maybe some.

I have never seen a Download Porygon2 in VGC, please tell me why protection against ground types is useless, because it's not.

Since you like to list things please tell me the other 50% of the community, and if they play VGC or not.

Download does have some use but I think Trace is better.

Agreed. The main reason why I chose Trace in the first place is because Porygon2 is mainly a tank for me. It's special attack is good and without tracing an ability such a levitate, it's just giving the opponent a bigger chance for damaging porygon2. Also in some cases, it can even force opponents to switch out, creating a chance for you to set up.

Also, I've added three poke's to replace others.

Opinions please? -

Espeon is now...

Cresselia

...

Staraptor is now...
Gyarados

...

And finally,

Blaziken is now...
Politoed

...

Thoughts please? :)

Enraikou · Jan 2nd, 2013, 3:45:37 PM

I think that your team seems vulnerable against rock/ground moves. Even with staraptor or gyarados cutting your opponents attack you should use a fight type. This choice will grant synergy to your gengar and espeon. I recomend Hitmontop
Hitmontop @fighting gem/eject button
Adamant nature
-Close combat
-Detect
-Fake out
-Mach punch/Sucker punch/Rock slide
252 Atk/252HP/4SpDef

It seems that tyranitar can do some damage on your team (i say that because already battled against someone on random match with a team like your and my tyranitar killed espeon and gengar , btw he used starmie).
You could change staraptor with hitmontop, and blaziken with politoed drizzle avoiding the sandstorm/sun/hail.

Osharlock · Jan 2nd, 2013, 3:48:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Enraikou

I think that your team seems vulnerable against rock/ground moves. Even with staraptor or gyarados cutting your opponents attack you should use a fight type. This choice will grant synergy to your gengar and espeon. I recomend Hitmontop
Hitmontop @fighting gem/eject button
Adamant nature
-Close combat
-Detect
-Fake out
-Mach punch/Sucker punch
252 Atk/252HP/4SpDef

It seems that tyranitar can do some damage on your team (i say that because already battled against someone on random match with a team like your and my tyranitar killed espeon and gengar , btw he used starmie).
You could change staraptor with hitmontop, and blaziken with politoed drizzle avoiding the sandstorm/sun/hail.

Well my team at the moment stands as Porygon2, Metagross, Cresselia, Thundurus, Politoed and Gyarados. Who would you suggest switching out for Hitmontop?

Enraikou · Jan 2nd, 2013, 4:05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Osharlock

Well my team at the moment stands as Porygon2, Metagross, Cresselia, Thundurus, Politoed and Gyarados. Who would you suggest switching out for Hitmontop?

I was thinking of gyarados, without losing intimidate.
I forgot to say hitmontop with intimidate.

Osharlock · Jan 2nd, 2013, 4:55:23 PM

I'll try it out, and see how successful it is. Mind you, I've seen footage of Hitmontop in VGC2012 and it was brilliant. Also, could you feedback on Politoed's EV's? I'm not too sure on them. Thanks for the feedback!

Organization Member XIV · Jan 2nd, 2013, 6:44:43 PM

I think on Blaziken you should run Sky Uppercut in place of HJK. Protect is EVERYWHERE in VGC, and losing 50% of your health just because a Pokemon used Protect is pretty horrible. While Sky Uppercut is a lot weaker, not losing 50% of your HP to Protect is a lot better IMO.

Osharlock · Jan 2nd, 2013, 7:15:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Organization Member XIV

I think on Blaziken you should run Sky Uppercut in place of HJK. Protect is EVERYWHERE in VGC, and losing 50% of your health just because a Pokemon used Protect is pretty horrible. While Sky Uppercut is a lot weaker, not losing 50% of your HP to Protect is a lot better IMO.

Agreed, but I'm trying to not use Blaziken at the moment. If I end up using him, I'll use Sky Uppercut.

Golden Piloswine · Jan 2nd, 2013, 9:39:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Organization Member XIV

I think on Blaziken you should run Sky Uppercut in place of HJK. Protect is EVERYWHERE in VGC, and losing 50% of your health just because a Pokemon used Protect is pretty horrible. While Sky Uppercut is a lot weaker, not losing 50% of your HP to Protect is a lot better IMO.

You have to predict correctly. HJK is used due to it's power, it's a risk some may just have to take.

tlyee61 · Jan 3rd, 2013, 3:13:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Golden Piloswine

You have to predict correctly. HJK is used due to it's power, it's a risk some may just have to take.

to me, HJK is not worth it at all because 98% or the Pokemon in VGC run protect and in a fast-paced meta, 50% recoil is not a good thing if you mispredict or they get lucky with a double protect. sky uppercut is the superior choice to me.

Now to actually rate this team:

p2: what exactly do the EVs survive? if they're not specific; calc them with a damage calc such as http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html

espeon: i would replace it with cress since it has superior speed and can support a team better. even though it doesn't have much firepower, it can set up screens much easier. also, you could go lumswagger with metagross.

gengar: scarf chandelure looks better in place of gengar. it gives a terrifyingly high special presence and is relatively fast with scarf.

metagross: what do the speed EVs help creep? try looking at www.smogon.com/bw/articles/vgc12speed_tiers to get an idea of what to creep. also, lum < cb and swagger on thundurus and cress so you get power and the ability to switch moves.

staraptor: i think thundurus would go better in this place. it gives speed control with twave and can also use swagger for metagross.

blaziken: it doesn't really look like blaziken really fits in with the rest of your team imo. I would go with another fighting-type like conkeldurr to have another swagger abuser, bot to mention it has great synergy with cress, thundurus, and chandy

Enraikou · Jan 3rd, 2013, 8:34:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat tlyee61

to me, HJK is not worth it at all because 98% or the Pokemon in VGC run protect and in a fast-paced meta, 50% recoil is not a good thing if you mispredict or they get lucky with a double protect. sky uppercut is the superior choice to me.

Now to actually rate this team:

p2: what exactly do the EVs survive? if they're not specific; calc them with a damage calc such as http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html

espeon: i would replace it with cress since it has superior speed and can support a team better. even though it doesn't have much firepower, it can set up screens much easier. also, you could go lumswagger with metagross.

gengar: scarf chandelure looks better in place of gengar. it gives a terrifyingly high special presence and is relatively fast with scarf.

metagross: what do the speed EVs help creep? try looking at www.smogon.com/bw/articles/vgc12speed_tiers to get an idea of what to creep. also, lum < cb and swagger on thundurus and cress so you get power and the ability to switch moves.

staraptor: i think thundurus would go better in this place. it gives speed control with twave and can also use swagger for metagross.

blaziken: it doesn't really look like blaziken really fits in with the rest of your team imo. I would go with another fighting-type like conkeldurr to have another swagger abuser, bot to mention it has great synergy with cress, thundurus, and chandy

Yeah, i didnt see that he can put thundurus instead of staraptor. He could use Hitmontop instead of blaziken then he would get a fake out and intimidate support.

Osharlock · Jan 3rd, 2013, 9:44:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat tlyee61

to me, HJK is not worth it at all because 98% or the Pokemon in VGC run protect and in a fast-paced meta, 50% recoil is not a good thing if you mispredict or they get lucky with a double protect. sky uppercut is the superior choice to me.

Now to actually rate this team:

p2: what exactly do the EVs survive? if they're not specific; calc them with a damage calc such as http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html

espeon: i would replace it with cress since it has superior speed and can support a team better. even though it doesn't have much firepower, it can set up screens much easier. also, you could go lumswagger with metagross.

gengar: scarf chandelure looks better in place of gengar. it gives a terrifyingly high special presence and is relatively fast with scarf.

metagross: what do the speed EVs help creep? try looking at www.smogon.com/bw/articles/vgc12speed_tiers to get an idea of what to creep. also, lum < cb and swagger on thundurus and cress so you get power and the ability to switch moves.

staraptor: i think thundurus would go better in this place. it gives speed control with twave and can also use swagger for metagross.

blaziken: it doesn't really look like blaziken really fits in with the rest of your team imo. I would go with another fighting-type like conkeldurr to have another swagger abuser, bot to mention it has great synergy with cress, thundurus, and chandy

P2 Can survive...

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 276-328 (73.79 - 87.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 204-240 (54.54 - 64.17%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Hitmontop Revenge vs. 252 HP / 176+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 192-228 (51.33 - 60.96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunder vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Eviolite Porygon2: 160-188 (42.78 - 50.26%) -- 1.56% chance to 2HKO

For a few. I have already replaced Espeon with Cresselia (Will update my post shortly). I'm not sure how the Speed EV's help...If you could help me with that I'd gladly appreciate it, as I'm not sure how to calc it. Blaziken has been replaced with Hitmontop (For now), Staraptor has also been replaced by Thundurus, but Gengar has been replaced with Politoed, although I'm not sure on that.

EDIT: First post has been edited. Please take a look.

Dec 27th, 2012, 3:37:21 PM	#1
Osharlock Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 18	My first ever VGC Team - Feedback needed! Hey there everyone, I was wondering if you could analyse my team for VGC this year? This is my first competition and I'm nervous as heck. I've been practicing this team over and over using online simulators, and it seems to work really well, but I have a feeling something's missing...Help please? My team is as follows: Porygon2 ... Item: Eviolite Nature: Bold Ability: Trace EV's: 252 HP, 176 Def, 80 SpD Moveset: Ice Beam (Should I change for Blizzard?) Thunderbolt (I don't have anyone who would be immune to discharge :/ Thunder Wave (I prefer it over Toxic, much more reliable as it cuts speed) Recover Porygon2 is one of the main cores of the team - The tank. It is usually overlooked due to the many other possibilities that exist for tanking, but the main reason I have chose it is because it is stupidly bulky with eviolite, and is capable of taking many, many hits. Combine that with thunder wave and recover stalling, and you've got yourself a brilliant tank. Ice beam can deal with those pesky flying types whilst crippling dragons, and is great for getting that lucky freeze - Thunderbolt is for the bulky water types. Recover and Thunder Wave and pretty much mandatory on the little duck, as it helps him stall or keep the others in control. Metagross ... Item: Choice Band Nature: Adamant Ability: Clear Body EV's: 162HP, 252ATT, 94 SpE Moveset: Bullet Punch Meteor Mash Earthquake Zen Headbutt Ah Metagross, the first pokemon I ever properly EV trained. This set has worked a lot for me in practice runs and seems perfect, but I was wondering, Should I replace Earthquake or Bullet Punch for Pursuit? I'm not too sure if i want to let go of Bullet Punch, as I prefer priority moves. Metagross also has access to the wonderful Meteor Mash for stab, but I can't help feeling something is missing. Thundurus ... Nature: Timid Item: Life Orb Ability: Prankster EV's: 252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4 Def Moveset: Thunder Thunder Wave Hidden Power Ice Taunt Thundurus will serve as my taunter but also my special attacker. I generally will lead off with it (alongside Porygon2 or Politoed), and taunt those whom I believe will be trying to set up hazards or T-Waves and such. After that is accomplished either - A. Stay in and Hidden Power Ice or Thunder Wave if needed, B - Thunder due to having switched in alongside Politoed, or C - Switch out to someone else. Thundurus is a great lead and something that should not be underestimated. Politoed ... Nature:Calm Item: Leftovers Ability: Drizzle EV's: 126 HP, 252 SpD, 130 SpE Moveset: Encore Hydro Pump Focus Blast Protect Politoed will serve as my weather changer and my pokemon for Encore. I can lock a pokemon into a non-effective or completely not needed move (Hence why the slightly speedy EV's) and then proceed to either attack or scout (Which is why protect is there). Rain will also help to serve Thundurus, who will be granted 100% accuracy thunder. But due to Cresselia being my special wall, should I invest all SpD EV's into speed to increase the chance of a successful encore? Cresselia ... Nature:Calm Item: Light Clay Ability: Levitate EV'S: 252 HP, 252 SpD, 4 SpA Moveset: Psychic Reflect Light Screen Moonlight Cresselia will serve as my dual screener. Because of it's incredible bulk and access to Moonlight, it will have no problem walling those special attackers whilst setting up screens that are vital to my teams survival. Not much explanation is needed as we all know how much of a core Cresselia can be when used right. Hitmontop ... Nature: Adamant Item: Fighting Gem (Considering Eject Button) Ability: Intimidate EV's: 252 HP, 252 ATK, 4 SpD Moveset: Fake Out Detect Close Combat Sucker Punch Hitmontop will serve as my intimidating pokemon and scouter. Generally I can lead off with him also due to the Fake Out, which is an added bonus. I put fighting gem on instead of Eject Button so Close Combat can deal that extra bit of damage, but the eject button has proven useful for escaping situations, so feedback on that would be great. Detect can be used to scout (or double protect alongside Politoed if they are in together.) Also, Sucker Punch can catch those whom are weak to it off guard. Overall Hitmontop is a decent pokemon, but one I need more practice using. CURRENTLY IN LIMBO Blaziken ... Nature:Jolly Item: Focus Sash Ability: Speed Boost EV's: 252 ATT, 252 SPE, 4Def Moveset: Protect Hi Jump Kick Swords Dance Flare Blitz Blaziken is an absolute beast, and now that I have recently got my hands on a speed boost Torchic this will be perfect for the VGC competition. I believe running a Focus Sash instead of life orb is absolutely perfect due to how frail Blaziken is, but since it runs flare blitz, it could be considered a suicide pokemon (Bar Hi Jump Kick). Thoughts? Staraptor ... Nature: Jolly Item: Choice Scarf Ability: Intimidate EV's: 252 ATT, 252 SpE, 4SpD Moveset: Brave Bird U-Turn Close Combat Return Staraptors intimidate is crucial for preventing some major flaws in my team, but is there a better user of it? Also, Staraptors power is incredible for the type of pokemon it is, catching opponents off guard. Since the big bird has access to close combat it is absolutely perfect for dealing with steel and normal types, hell even rock types too. But that doesn't change the fact that it is frail. Not too sure about the 4 SpD, should I put it on defense instead? Gengar ... Item: Leftovers Nature: Timid Ability: Levitate EV's: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4HP Moveset: Shadow ball Thunderbolt Focus Blast Protect Gengar will serve as my speedy attacker. It has a great speed with ev's and a scary special attack, but unfortunately dies to a pebble. I'm considering running a focus sash destiny bond Gengar instead, but is that really successful? I've ran a Sub+Disable set in singles before, and it's worked perfectly, but I feel that wouldn't be suitable for doubles. Shadow ball is the primary STAB move, dealing huge chunks of damage to anything that doesn't resist it, or is immune. Thunderbolt can cope with bulky flying and water types, whilst focus blast deals with the annoying normal types that switch in to prevent shadow ball damage. Protect can be used for scouting and for perhaps stalling if needed. Any improvements for this pokemon would be highly appreciated. Espeon ... Item: Light Clay Nature: Timid Ability: Magic Bounce EV's: 252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 HP Moveset: Light Screen Reflect Shadow Ball Psychic Espeon will serve as my dual screen pokemon. Unfortunately the only hidden ability Eevee I have has a Rash nature but after trading I managed to obtain a Timid one, so it's all good now! Att is boosted, but for a dual screen pokemon the Sp. Def fall could be crucial. What do you think? Is there a better option for this? I generally thought Espeon would be a good choice as it has the Magic Bounce ability, bouncing back all hazards. The good thing about Espeon is that is also boasts quite a decent special attack stat, so even without EV modifcation a STAB psychic can do a lot of damage from the little cat. I have been greatly considering using Ninetails with Drought instead of a poke on my team, but I'm really not sure. Any general feedback would be greatly appreciated. Last edited by Osharlock; Jan 3rd, 2013 at 9:59:19 AM.

Dec 27th, 2012, 8:11:11 PM	#4
voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead Moderator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,965	The first thing I notice is that your team is mostly fast and frail, which makes it really vulnerable to Trick Room, especially since you have no way of countering it other than Thundurus's Taunt or trying to OHKO the user. While it's not a great solution, the easiest way to deal with it without significantly changing your team would be to teach Trick Room to Porygon2. That way, if the opponent does manage to get it up, you can just reverse it on the following turn. Espeon seems really redundant with Gengar and Metagross (especially with a less than ideal nature) - it shares two weaknesses with Gengar, while having overlapping coverage with both. I would consider replacing it with either Cresselia, the standard dual screener (though it keeps the weaknesses) or Rotom-W, which has much better typing and bulk and also helps you deal with rain and Trick Room better. Thundurus should have Thunderbolt instead of Thunder on any non-rain team; the extra power is not at all worth the drop in accuracy, especially in a tournament format where every battle matters so you can't afford to miss. I used Scarf Staraptor on my team in the last Wi-Fi tournament, and I have to recommend trying out Reckless instead of Intimidate. It has enough power to OHKO just about any Pokémon without significant defensive investment, and a KO'd Pokémon is obviously much less threatening than one at -1 Atk, especially considering how many of the top threats in the format are special attackers. But that's largely a matter of preference, both abilities are perfectly viable. If you do end up using Reckless, be sure to give it Double-Edge instead of Return. __________________ Check out Smogon's new Doubles metagame! White FC: 4126-4421-4056 Black 2 FC: 3311-0920-4475 My Pokécheck Pokémon RNG is kind of like firing a gun. Why shoot blindly in every direction until you're lucky enough to hit the target when you can just take the time to aim properly and hit it with one shot?

Dec 29th, 2012, 10:13:27 AM	#6
Level 51 barely clinging on Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 758 Location: Singapore ^.^	Looking over your team, I think the most obvious things that might deserve changing are: Leftovers on Gengar. Gengar isn't going to be surviving long anyway (as you mentioned yourself); why bother with Leftovers? A Life Orb or a Ghost Gem are options you may want to consider. Hi Jump Kick on Blaziken just doesn't belong. With all the protecting going on in VGC, chances are you'll kill yourself of crash damage before you can deal any good damage to your opponents. Focus Sash on Blaziken. With Flare Blitz, you'll either (a) survive a hit and then kill yourself with recoil, or (b) shoot off a Flare Blitz and then die to an opponent's attack. Not an ideal scenario. In fact, you may want to consider getting rid of Blaziken entirely. VGC is an incredibly fast-paced metagame; Speed Boost and Swords Dance won't have enough time to be useful. I would like to suggest using Infernape as a useful replacement; besides also keeping Flare Blitz (or Overheat as a good alternative!), it can use the much more reliable Close Combat and the really useful Fake Out. In summary: Gengar's Leftovers --> Ghost Gem/Life Orb Blaziken --> Mixed Attacker (Fake Out/Overheat/Close Combat/Protect or something) Infernape __________________ Back to school, gg contribution rate [15:59] <&@chaos\|away> i hence forth make it official: im better than arcticblast [15:59] <&@chaos\|away> spread the word

Dec 29th, 2012, 1:53:32 PM	#7
voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead Moderator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,965	When I used Blaziken, I found a mixed set with Heat Wave/HJK/HP Ice to be pretty effective. You have to predict Protects so you don't kill yourself, but they're usually pretty obvious so that just takes a bit of experience. Low Kick is a safer option, but when I tested it I found the power to be lacking sometimes. At this point, my main concern is that you still don't really have any way of dealing with Trick Room - in fact, getting rid of Thundurus made it even worse since you lost your Taunter. __________________ Check out Smogon's new Doubles metagame! White FC: 4126-4421-4056 Black 2 FC: 3311-0920-4475 My Pokécheck Pokémon RNG is kind of like firing a gun. Why shoot blindly in every direction until you're lucky enough to hit the target when you can just take the time to aim properly and hit it with one shot?

Dec 29th, 2012, 2:07:02 PM	#8
Osharlock Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 18	@Level 51, You're right about the Gengar scenario, I should have noticed that myself really. I'll try having a life orb instead of leftovers, and then experiment with the ghost gem also. I wonder if a fighting gem for the surprise focus blast would be useful... And as for Blaziken, once again, you may be right. I've used Blaziken in singles and it has always done me well, but in VGC it might not fit, as you said. But Infernape isn't much of an option either in my opinion due to how frail it is - What about Lucario? (Both are frail, but Lucario might be a better choice due better attack? Also, I could get the +4 Beat Up boost due to Justified, but that would require me removing ANOTHER pokemon. Then again Infernape is faster) @Voodoo Pimp, A mixed set Blaziken actually sounds quite interesting - I'll try that out before I get rid of Blaziken entirely. If I get rid of Blaziken, I could go back to Thundurus. Perhaps I could teach Trick Room to Porygon2 like you suggested, but then what do I get rid of, Ice Beam or Thunderbolt? Either one makes me unable to counter one more pokemon, but to be fair Porygon2 is more support then anything else. Another thought, What if I replaced Staraptor with a leftovers drizzle Politoed? I've tried it a few times and it seems to work, but what's your thoughts? It's mainly to counter sand teams. Last edited by Osharlock; Dec 29th, 2012 at 2:51:50 PM.

Dec 27th, 2012, 4:13:33 PM	#2
morningsun Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 100 I love life :D	Why not use Shadow Ball on your Espeon?

Dec 27th, 2012, 4:21:29 PM	#3
Osharlock Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 18	That's a good point - If I'm stuck into Hidden Power Ghost I might as well use Shadow Ball. Any other suggestions mate? Thanks for the feedback also!

Dec 28th, 2012, 6:25:38 AM	#5
Osharlock Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 18	I'm not overly keen on teaching trick room to Porygon2, as I do believe this set works out perfectly. However, you are right about the trick room problem - Whilst trying this team out in simulators I've stumbled upon one or two trick room teams, but managed to cope (slightly). I agree with you on that statement. You're right about Espeon in that sense, but I'm reluctant to let it go due to it's magic bounce ability, but as you said, Cresselia might be a better choice if I'm using it for dual screens. I'm not overly keen on Rotom-W, but in that sense I've noticed a lack of water moves on my team, so it may be a good choice (Especially with that handy volt switch if need be.) Once again, Thundurus I'm not overly keen on, but I understand it's immense power. Do you think it's worth using him? What about a drought ninetales? I'll make sure to do that then - I have noticed Staraptor fainting quite quickly due to the damage from Brave Bird, so perhaps a recklass one would be better. The frustrating thing about that however is that I no longer have intimidate, preventing me from switching it in to protect over pokemon, or forcing the opponent to switch out. Thank you for the feedback also, is there any more adjustments you believe is needed?

Jan 1st, 2013, 1:34:15 AM	#10
chuavechito Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 55	Why Trace over Download? Download has 50% chance of providing an usefull +.5 SpA for both of his moves while the bast majority of the abilities Trace could copy are kind of useless on P2 (or at last, worst than Download). Also, if you bring Politoed over Staraptor you should also switch Blaziken for Thundurus.

Jan 1st, 2013, 2:37:36 AM	#12
Flygon45 Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 1	Your Porygon 2 needs Tri-Attack as STAB and use this move instead of Thunderbolt because Thunderbolt is really a waste since you already have an Electric type on your team and get its Ability to be Download for most of the time it's SpA will r.aise Last edited by Flygon45; Jan 1st, 2013 at 2:41:40 AM. Reason: Change stament

Jan 1st, 2013, 3:00:19 AM	#13
chuavechito Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 55	The usage goes 50% for Trace, 30% for Download and 20% for Analitic with a 10%+/- difference from month to month. This is afaik from PO, we dont have VGC usage stats from smogon yet. However, if you really want to go with what are peoples thoughts on T v D you should known that the standar set is Ice Beam, Trick Room, Recover and a 4th move that can be either Thunder (Rain teams) or Thunderbolt, with Tri Attack and Protect seen some play here and there. And, my opinion about T v D: This are the most 20 used pokemons in VGC, next their most used abilities, next how useful would they be on Porygon2: * Cressleia - Levitate - Useless * Metagross - Clear Body - Useless * Tyranitar - Sand Stream - Useless * Hitmontop - Intimidate - Usefull * Garchomp - Sand Veil - kind of Usefull (needs Sandstorm, obviously, and even so is unreliable) * Zapdos - Pressure - Useless * Scizor - Technician - Useless * Chandelure - Flash Fire - Usefull * Thundurus - Prankster - kind of suboptimal compared to Download, specially on the standar set (I wouldnt run TWave regardless). I cant imagine how priority Recover could be better than +1 SpA. * Politoed - Drizzle - Useless * Latios - Levitate - Useless * Hydreigon - Levitate - Useless * Water Absorb - Water Aborb - Usefull * Rotom-W - Levitate - Useless * Abomasnow - Snow Warning - Useless * Terrakion - Justified - Useless * Ludicolo - Swift Swim - kind of useless, since it cant outspeed Ludicolo, even after SSwim. * Gastrodon - Storm Drain - Usefull * Dragonite - Inner Focus - Useless * Whimsicott - Prankster - again, kind of suboptimal compared to Download, specially on the standar set (I wouldnt run TWave regardless). I cant imagine how priority Recover could be better than +1 SpA. Btw, "Useless" means almost no use whatsoever on Porygon2 against that specific pokemon. It doesnt talk about the ability itself. Levitate is useless on him because he has no weakness to Ground and Ground is not a common type on the said Levitate pokemons. In fact in order to be usefull you would need them to have a EQ poke, a Levitate poke, you should be lucky enough to get the Levitate and then the only thing you accomplish is disabling them 1 move (against Porygon2 only). Is not even a reliable switch in to aborb the EQ since you may not get hte Levitate. Soooo: 4 Usefull and 4 arguably usefull on 20 pokemons (I could go on but the constant of usefull/useless remains the same). Considering Trace gives you the ability at random odds are you are getting a useless ability. This is why me (and another 50% of the comunity) dont like Trace.

Jan 1st, 2013, 2:49:58 PM	#14
Golden Piloswine Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 426 Pittsburgh	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peLn48i-Wag Please tell me why Download is better. Get this through your head, it's not like Porygon2 is part flying, Levitate is useful. Not taking damage from an EQ can save you a turn of recover. Prankster is good for T-Wave, and people do run it. Inner Focus prevents against flinching, i.e. Fake Out. No one cares if it outspeeds Ludicolo, it's a great method of speed increase if your not running TR. - Swift Swim Justified is kind of useless, but if a sucker punch happens from top or Bisharp it can have some use, but not very much. Clear Body is useful in the same way as Justified, not much, but maybe some. I have never seen a Download Porygon2 in VGC, please tell me why protection against ground types is useless, because it's not. Since you like to list things please tell me the other 50% of the community, and if they play VGC or not. Download does have some use but I think Trace is better. __________________ How do-you feel -about chocolate? Originally Posted by Fat jumpluff Also, I love chocolate... My "The Smog" Article \| ✞ I am proud to be close with Jesus Christ ✞

Jan 2nd, 2013, 3:45:37 PM	#16
Enraikou Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 85 Brazil	I think that your team seems vulnerable against rock/ground moves. Even with staraptor or gyarados cutting your opponents attack you should use a fight type. This choice will grant synergy to your gengar and espeon. I recomend Hitmontop Hitmontop @fighting gem/eject button Adamant nature -Close combat -Detect -Fake out -Mach punch/Sucker punch/Rock slide 252 Atk/252HP/4SpDef It seems that tyranitar can do some damage on your team (i say that because already battled against someone on random match with a team like your and my tyranitar killed espeon and gengar , btw he used starmie). You could change staraptor with hitmontop, and blaziken with politoed drizzle avoiding the sandstorm/sun/hail. Last edited by Enraikou; Jan 2nd, 2013 at 4:07:06 PM. Reason: Forgot Evs!!:P

Jan 2nd, 2013, 4:55:23 PM	#19
Osharlock Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 18	I'll try it out, and see how successful it is. Mind you, I've seen footage of Hitmontop in VGC2012 and it was brilliant. Also, could you feedback on Politoed's EV's? I'm not too sure on them. Thanks for the feedback! Last edited by Osharlock; Jan 2nd, 2013 at 5:05:59 PM.

Jan 2nd, 2013, 6:44:43 PM	#20
Organization Member XIV Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 611 With Xerneas, in the Garden of Eden	I think on Blaziken you should run Sky Uppercut in place of HJK. Protect is EVERYWHERE in VGC, and losing 50% of your health just because a Pokemon used Protect is pretty horrible. While Sky Uppercut is a lot weaker, not losing 50% of your HP to Protect is a lot better IMO. __________________ Bearkiller on PS and IRC. May also go by the name of Grima on IRC. I play League of Legends, so there's that. Also free Genesect plz. My LP.