Pokemon "Speed Run"

[Taylor]

I've been an avid fan of "Pokemon Speed-Runs" ever since I can remember enjoying playing Red for the first time. It amazes me how the tools which are programmed into emulators allow for completion in a reasonable ammount of time. Once I myself learned there were records for finishing each version, I just had to see how I faired against record-holders in an effort to surpass their best times.

I even play hacks and aim to finish them as quickly as I can. It can be more challenging when the level difficulty forces you to think on your toes in any given match, and you're prone to losing more often than you'd like to think; making your speed-run more gripping and fullfilling till the last battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjA5v...ure=plpp_video

According to SDA (SpeedDemosArchive) they have a Blue record capped around the one hour fifty mark. That's impressive, even for a solo-run on a regular timeframe. Their main site has more videos of Pokemon run-throughs, each holding a record of time for whichever version you choose to watch.

But me, personally, I'd rather group up with a few friends of mine on Skype, select a Pokemon game to speed-run through and see who can finish 1st, 2nd, etc. MunchingOrange may be a familiar name to some of you readers, and every now and then I have watched his speed-runs where he and his friends challenge one another to see whoever can finish the game first.

I would like to see something here at Smogon, as I'm sure many viewers would be excited to see a series of veterens master one of the classic games in a speedy fashion. I may be sounding overdramatic and overenthused by this, but I can say it's a relief from the competitive scene and also is a way to freshen up on your knowledge of the mechanical aspects with which each generation evolved from. If there is any interest, I would be glad to here from some of you and if Smogon approves, perhaps upload the cast on YouTube.

Ideas/Questions/Concerns?

[McGrrr]

Watching this speed run; I'm really impressed by the sheer depth of in-game knowledge and strategy of these guys. Suddenly, I'm tempted to download a no$gmb emulator... Although I've never progressed beyond Mount Moon in any attempt to replay RBY during the last 5 years (lack of running shoes is intolerable).

If hacks are allowed, I imagine that starting with Abra (in any version) and TM psychic would be optimal due to teleport.

[Taylor]

I was playing "Backwards Fire Red" and essentially it's a re-shaped design of Kanto, and well you basically play the gym leaders in reverse order. Teleport is also a Psychic-type Explosion, but generally the edits made make this seem like a worthwhile hack.

I'm so tempted to hear any thoughts on gathering a bunch of voluntary and/or well-renowed users to race to see who can beat the final battle first. Like MO's crew, you can restrict what is available in-game as far as renewal purposes and team count goes to highten the difficulty, so you're efforts are rewarded more overall as oppose to being remembrance only.

But with all that is riding on the occasion would mean it would be wiser to stick to an official version, avoiding any unwanted glitches/malfunctions of game save, etc.

I really think Smogon's Orange Islands community and leaders should consider embarking on this adventure! Be some fun :)

[Carl]

These are some quick times..

Definitely makes me want to give it a whirl.

[Shining Kestral]

Watching speedruns are a particular passion of mine.

SDA only accepts speedruns played on legitimate copies of games - so that Blue run was done on a cartridge, no emulators involved. It was also a single segement run - meaning it was done in one sitting with no saving or breaks whatsoever. I recommend watching a bunch of the runs, both the straightforward ones and the ones that show off some crazy glitches like the Yellow save glitch. A run done on a live stream once exploited a glitch that netted the runner a level 100 Venusaur before even going to face Brock. (The video of that should be somewhere.) These facts make the speedruns even more impressive.

I probably won't participate myself, but I wouldn't mind helping to make it happen.

[breh]

I thought there was already a thread about this somewhere ?_?

Originally Posted by Fat Shining Kestral

A run done on a live stream once exploited a glitch that netted the runner a level 100 Venusaur before even going to face Brock. (The video of that should be somewhere.)

Yes, this is correct and, in fact, one of the things that is very easy to abuse. By doing the Mew glitch and getting pretty much any level 1 Pokemon (don't recall where you can do it; I think it was Viridian Forest + Escape Rope...), you can get an instant level 100 (specifically, one that corresponds to one of the lower index numbers due to the relatively low possible specials at that point in the first place; this is why you can get a level 100 Venusaur - Ivysaur is at index 9 (if you wanted to, I'd assume you could get a Slowbro or an Exeggutor with little difficulty in the same way)) which you can use to really easily cheese the game.

[Zowayix]

It's only possible in Yellow, where the second-to-last(?) Trainer in Viridian Forest is a "long-distance" trainer that the Mew glitch requires. This trainer is not in R/B.

[BeastMode2010]

I could totally see this becoming like the Subway Record thread. Having screenshots and what not to prove your time and possibly even strategy involved. I might try a speedrun on my platinum or SS to see how well I do. lol

[Level 51]

5:27 on one of my slower Black times, using only Serperior.
Which starter, in theory, would do best for speedruns?

[Taylor]

Well my aim was to acquire a dozen or so users and gather on #OrangeIslands to Skype up a recording. We would essentially follow the same method as MO's crew, but with trusted users who can give everyone an equal and fair challenge.

We could begin with Red/Blue. No glitches allowed and timeframes would be at the discretion of each individual (1000x maximum) and all glitches/cheats would be forbidden.

If you're competent enough to know how to complete the game in a reasonable amount of time and in a swift fashion, let us all see who can whiz through these games the fastest. Proof in one way or another would be required.

[McGrrr]

Originally Posted by Fat Level 51

5:27 on one of my slower Black times, using only Serperior.
Which starter, in theory, would do best for speedruns?

I've managed ~4.5 hours with Samurott. Swords dance allows you to beat the E4 quicker than the other starters. Also, make sure you play in Winter; thereby reducing Twist Mountain to a 5 minute distraction.

Soft reset for 21/11/10/12/10/10 Oshawott (not difficult as this only guarantees IVs of 10/10/10/14/10/10) with a neutral nature or the equivalent with -SpD. It's important not to settle for -SpA because you need water gun to 2HKO a bunch of stuff early on. Bear in mind that torrent water gun is your best option before the first gym.

Remember to pick up the X Defend next to the girl who gives you Simisear and the Eviolite before taking on the bug gym; Leavanny is the toughest battle all game.

[Unbreakable]

I used to speedrun. Then I got discouraged by the people that did it for real.

Seriously, RSE has got to be some of the hardest shit to run because Wattson and Norman are just that freaking difficult without proper grinding. Tate and Liza aren't that hard with an overleveled Swampert spamming Surf...just make sure you wipe out Solrock with extreme prejudice before it rips off a Solarbeam. (How to do this: Target Xatu first, as Claydol really can't do much on offense.)

[Antihaxxer]

Wattson ? Hard ? Oo

[Deinosaur]

This actually sounds like it would be a great deal of fun. Although, I have never actually played Red or Blue before, so I would obviously not be a good pick for a race such as this. But if you cannot get all the users you wish to get, we could have a somewhat smaller "silver bracket" for people with less experience in the game.

I always enjoy watching games played in large groups with that one or two people fighting each other not to get last. :>

[Perfect Cell]

I've been thinking about doing a Speed run of Pokemon Red after I transfer my stuff to Pokemon Stadium 2. I'm going to try to finish the game within 5 hours max.

I've heard Charizard and Nidoking are good pokemon to have for speed runs, what does everyone else think?

[Robcore™]

I've recently done my first speed-run on Pokémon Red, something to keep me occupied whilst I travelled to my holiday destination, and found that I actually really enjoyed it and almost surprised myself how much I remember about Gen I (I was 11 when I last seriously played them, am nearly 23 now). What I will say is that I don't think there is a better starter than Squirtle to do the speed run with, only possibly Charizard could be if you overlevelled it early on to beat Brock and Misty as you don't want to be spending time training something disposeable up.

I beat the game (well, my first Hall of Fame was at 3:57 which I don't think is brilliant, especially considering I could've easily knocked half an hour off of it had I been a bit more clued up) thanks to Blastoise and Dugtrio, both were underleveled really. What I found is that speed is pretty much the killer - I do not remember Slash criticalling every single time on Dugtrio back then - along with the use of the stat up items such as X-Accuracy.

I finished up with a Lv55 Blastoise and a Lv44 Dugtrio which defeated the Elite Four and Gary. Blastoise was.. incredible to use, especially had I found Mega Punch and not had to rely on Bite, definitely when I realised just.. how broken the game really is. Seriously, I swept Lorelei and Gary using an X-Accuracy, an X-Speed and Fissure; it just didn't miss. Surf with X-Accuracy and X-Special crippled Bruno and Lance, and my Digging Dugtrio defeated Agatha on his own despite being underlevelled considerably.

Definitely going to attempt another one in the near future, I'm considering giving Charmander a try to see as I spent a bit too long trying to find a Dugtrio in Vermillion (despite using Repel and my Lv28 Wartortle) which wouldn't be necessary if I had a Charmeleon to battle Surge with, although I guess Misty would be horrible to deal with.
=]

[Taylor]

I apologise for not responding these last couple of days, as I have had business to attend to.

Well I began working on a Leaf Green speed-run on my Playbook, and after discovering I left my tablet on all night, the duration of time took my clock well into overtime and so my speed run came to an end.

I actually intended for this challenge to be taken place on IRC's #OI and its members, with no more than two hours or so of their spare time, gather in a sprint to the champion battle of any version we all agree to sit and play on.

You will need the following:
~ Skype
~ VBA Emulator
~ IRC access

I will lay out the ground rules and specifics if there is enough interest amongst several\half a dozen users.

[Zystral]

I would like to take part in this, but I think it must be specified what is meant by speed run: in-game clock, or real time? Because with lots of save state abuse and soft resetting, you could get a ludicrously low in-game time at the cost of a few hours SRing.

[Charon]

I always have that feeling where I just have to check every corner, battle every trainer... even freaking search every place for items with the item finder xDDD
And at least SEE all pokemon if Im not catching and at least evolving everything that I can lol. I need that feeling of completeness when playing a game D;

So speed runs in pokemon sounds like its not for me... unlike for example Metroid games where you can clearly define whether you go for 100% items or just shortest time etc.

[Taylor]

For starters, I think we could run the emulator on which ever speed participants feel comfortable with. Remember that soft-resetting to a certain point in the game means you're not progressing so much as reverting back to a previous checkpoint in-game, which isn't jumping further ahead by any means.

Assuming we allow for whichever emulator speeds are necessary for each competitor, then that is as far as we go in terms of "cheating the system". You obviously will not be permitted to use cheats such as "walk through walls", étc. I would have declared "no solo runs" due to the extreme ease of plowing through original games with just one Pokemon, but ultimately a speed-run intends for the fastest time possible and therefore it's best we schedule when, where and how when we all know who is available at what time.

Allow me to reiterate, I intend for us to group together on Skype so we can chat whilst playing through the version of our choosing. Mostly everything in-game is up to the discretion of its users, but the aim of the competition is to see if we can break records and challenge one another to see who has the fastest fingers on Smogon. To add, memorizing the story itself is also key because we know how difficult it can be remembering how to solve some of those grueling puzzles, and particular battles which have proven to be a struggle in the past (Chikorita starters facing Falkner, for example).

Thoughts, interests?

[Joeyboy]

Very interested in this, in class atm but I think this is a great idea. Gunna do some research and watch a couple speed runs later :)

[HiipFire]

Did this ever happen? Cause I'd love to do this.

[McGrrr]

*Bump*

Has anybody tried to speed run B2/W2 yet?

I managed a first HoF time of 3:41 (sub 3:30 may be possible), but I used this guy after the first gym (and a teleport Mew for HMs): http://www.pokecheck.org/?p=detail&uid=2193766

Obviously my run is worthless because I essentially broke the game, but I'd like to know of any legitimate tries!

[Antihaxxer]

Yeah Using Legendaries / traded Pokemon is like cheating :)

I don't know if Speeds Runs exists, it's counter productive to the spirit of Pokemon isn't it ?

[Magicxgame]

Bumping this topic because speedruns are awesome and the only Pokemon challenge I do (eff Nuzlocke). It doesn't seem like the race ever happened, but I'd love to have a speedrun race against other Smogoners. :) You got any questions about speedrunning, feel free to ask.

Here's a list of my personal best times and some links to some of the cooler Pokemon runs. I'm currently working on a Pokemon Blue speedrun, I'll see how that turns out.

PBs (including a world record):

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-Pokemon Yellow: 2:03 (one minute short of the world record ;_;)
I also had a speedrun where I traded in items from Pokemon Stadium to get a L100 Nidoking and get to Saffron City early by transferring a drink, but I forget the time and this would obviously be a separate category.
-Pokemon Gold: 3:55 (have an outdated 4:15 run up on SDA under the name Brown_Bomber
-Pokemon Sapphire: ~2:30
-Pokemon Diamond: 3:58 (world record, though I could shave a few minutes with an optimal Piplup)
-Pokemon White: ~4:00-4:30 (pretty bad "single-segment" run)

Speedrun links:

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A 0:00 in-game timer run of Pokemon Yellow. Seriously.
A "Gotta Catch 'Em All" tool-assisted (emulator) speedrun of Pokemon Blue. If you had any sort of childhood in the '90s, this should delight you.
This is outdated, but I thought some people would enjoy this anyway (hint: wait until the end).
A 1:54 Pokemon Sapphire run.
A 100% run of Pokemon Colosseum by our very own Toothache in 7:17.
Westerlobe's channel, a channel of an active Pokemon speedrunner (he made the run that was linked to in the first post). He also streams on Twitch at SpeedRunsLive if you want to see speedrun attempts in real time.

Originally Posted by Fat Antihaxxer

Yeah Using Legendaries / traded Pokemon is like cheating :)

I don't know if Speeds Runs exists, it's counter productive to the spirit of Pokemon isn't it ?

1. Using legendaries is not cheating. If it's in the game, you abuse it to get a good time. Trades are considered a separate category.

2. How are speedruns counterproductive? I realize some people like to take their time and enjoy the game, but it helps others learn more and more about the game.