Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[labarith]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

I actually had thought of that! So far:
Pokeball - Normal Type
Great Ball - Fire Type
Ultra Ball - Fighting Type
Dusk ball - Dark Type
Net ball - Bug Type
Dive Ball - Water Type
Heavy Ball - Ground Type
Premier Ball - Ice Type
Luxury Ball - Steel Type
Nest Ball - Flying Type
Heal Ball - Psychic Type
Quick Ball - Grass Type
Timer Ball - Rock Type
Master Ball - Either dragon or a pseudo-legend pure electric with levitate, as I stated before.

That leaves out: Ghost and Poison

I think that could be really cool, but whoever said was right, it'd just end up an electric eevee. I honestly would like to see this, but, in reality, the best thing would be only the master ball one. Would you waste your only Master Ball if it meant getting a Mastrorb, and would you have a friend willing to trade you with it and give it back?

OK, while I'd be willing to consider an electrode evolution, and a pokeball trade evolution, the 2 together doesn't work, and eating up that many pokedex slots would be horrible.

How about:
A pokemon whose form is determined by the ball you catch it in

If you catch it in a pokeball, it is it's normal form. Otherwise it's normal/X, where X is the appropriate type, more or less what you listed above. However Masterball strikes me as either Ghost or Poison, not Dragon - sorry.

As for the pokemon itself, make it have Adaptability or something that boosts it's own STAB moves in some way. Have it be a special bulky pokemon with lots of coverage moves (IE, let it have a decent typed special attacking move for each type - changing forms would only change what gets the STAB???)

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Each time a new gen is coming, it seems that a couple of moves are buffed (though some were nerfed badly, I'm looking at you Selfdestruct and Explosion), those moves can maybe have a buff during the gen transition :
Crabhammer : 120 BP(+30) / 85 Acc(-5) / 5 PP(-5)
Not counting new moves, if any physical Water-type move would look powerful enough to be buffed up to 120 BP, it would be Crabhammer.

90 base power Stone Edge seems fine to me. Physical Hydropump is a little too good.

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Tri-Attack : 100 BP(+20) / 95 Acc(-5) / 5 PP(-5)
It always baffled me to see how this move is "only" 80 BP considering its side effects.

I could see 90 damage, but a more preferable alternative would be 80 with 10% for each type, making it a normal "Scald"...

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Iron Tail : 100 BP(=) / 80 Acc(+5) / 10 PP(-5)
I don't see how this is any less accurate than Stone Edge, Cross Chop or Hydro Pump.

Physical 100 damage is tough. But Steel is horrible, so...

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Crunch : 90 BP(+10) / 100 Acc(=) / 15 PP(=)
When the most powerful RELIABLE move of one given combination of type and category is ONLY 80 BP you know something is off.

Crunch is fine as is. Power Creep like this is bad.

When "upgrading" or "nerfing" moves, you need to be concerned with distribution, comparable moves, and the power of pokemon with the move. Crunch 1HKOs quite a bit as is, there are no stronger dark moves, and the special version is nearly identical. No need to upgrade it to ice beam levels.

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Shadow Ball : 90 BP(+10) / 100 Acc(=) / 15 PP(=)
Same comment as Crunch.

Same as my comments on Crunch. You also seem to be forgetting/ignoring the additional effects?

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Hyper Voice : 120 BP(+30) / 90 Acc(-10) / 5 PP(-5)
A far more reliable version of Uproar, used to be a more powerful version as well (×1.8 or +80% the power of Uproar) up until gen5.

While we get a lot of special water moves because there are a lot of water pokemon, I don't see much reason to give Normal such a strong move.

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Extrasensory : 90 BP(+10) / 100 Acc(=) / 15 PP(-15)
Would give Psychic competition (flinch chance vs Sp.Def. drop chance).

While I think Psychic could use some competition, I think boosting the flinch rate would be preferable. Although it's already a special Waterfall. :/

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Power Gem : 90 BP(+20) / 100 Acc(=) / 10 PP(-10)
Special Rock-type moves : AncientPower, Hidden Power (Rock), Power Gem. Talk about diversity, even though I can understand why it is difficult to come with a special rock move flavor-wise but if anything the power boost would make Power Gem usable.

Since Power Gem is just HP Rock, I can see a boost. However, I would prefer boosting it to 75 or giving it some bonus - high critical hit, flinch, chance to increase evasion...

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Focus Blast : 120 BP(=) / 80 Acc(+10) / 5 PP(=)
You know it's sad when you compare Focus Blast average BP output (84) to Aura Sphere's (90), at the very least 80% accuracy would increase Focus Blast average power up to 96.

I hate Focus Blast, but you're doing the calculations wrong. The question is whether Focus Blast OHKOs things more often than those other moves. Enjoy that math while I appreciate the fact that special attackers don't get easy access to accurate fighting moves...

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Razor Shell : 85 BP(+10) / 95 Acc(=) / 10 PP(=)
Kinda like how Leaf Blade got buffed the generation next after the one it was introduced.

Sure?

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Icicle Crash : 100 BP(+15) / 90 Acc(=) / 10 PP(=)
I think 85 BP doesn't properly translate the pain that a row of sharp, pointy big icicles ready to stab you from above would inflict.

85 physical ice is perfectly fine. Geeze!

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

I nearly forgot, Selfdestruct and Explosion like they were pre-gen5: come on Game Freak, that was a dick move.

:/

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Ideas of new moves / clone of old moves :
Ice Kick (アイスキック) : 85 BP / 90 Acc / 10 PP / Ice / Physical
Increased critical hit ratio, 10% chance of freezing the target.

So basically Slash and Nightslash and Stone Edge weren't good enough for you? My god...

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Thunder Kick (サンダーキック) : 85 BP / 90 Acc / 10 PP / Electric / Physical
Increased critical hit ratio, 10% chance of paralysing the target.

Hello again, my old friend, you're slightly less obscene thanks to ground type... but still far, far, far too good.

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Psycho Blade (サイコブレード) : 100 BP / 80 Acc / 5 PP / Psychic / Physical
Increased critical hit ratio.

No.

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Brainpower (プサイアニック) : 120 BP / 85 Acc / 5 PP / Psychic / Special
20% chance of dropping the target Sp.Def. 2 stages.

Your own sp.D maybe... and no.

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Steam Hammer (パワーハンマー) : 120 BP / 100 Acc / 15 PP / Steel / Physical
Recoil damage equal to one-third of the damage done.

Fine. Although I'd go 10pp...

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Icebreaker (さいひょうせん) : 120 BP / 100 Acc / 15 PP / Ice / Physical
Recoil damage equal to one-third of the damage done.

Ice is too strong, no. I could see one pokemon getting this, but come on...

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

ThunderDance (かみなりのまい) : --- BP / --- Acc / 20 PP / Electric / Status
Increase user's Sp.Atk and Speed 1 stage each.

There's type-shifting, and then there's just "Hey, I want a special dragon dance." Guess which this is?

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Ice Age (アイスエイジ) : 120 BP / 50 Acc / 5 PP / Ice / Special
100% chance of freezing the target (if it connects).

Freezing > Confusion. So no.

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

WaterCooling (すいれい) : 90 BP / 100 Acc / 10 PP / Water / Special
10% chance of freezing the target.

Sure. Perfectly reasonable water special move variant. Although I think a flat out ice beam port would be fine.

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Ice Skating (アイススケート) : --- BP / --- Acc / 20 PP / Ice / Status
Increase user's Speed 2 stages.

Hilarious, but no.

Originally Posted by Fat MeroMero

Sky Rocket (スカイロケット) : 120 BP / 70 Acc / 5 PP / Steel / Special
No side-effect, infinite accuracy under sun, accuracy is 50 under rain / sandstorm / hail.

Sky Storm (りゅうのあらし) : 120 BP / 70 Acc / 5 PP / Dragon / Special
No side-effect, infinite accuracy under rain, accuracy is 50 under sun.

No.

[Ghost Curses You]

Originally Posted by Fat Champion Steve

Rotom Ye Olde Forme? How would it even work?

Care to elaborate? Although I do prefer the dark/steel type handcuffs evolving into this thing, it would be interesting having medieval rotom forms, based on items you find in a torture chamber in some castle ruins, the guillotine for dark or steel, an Iron maiden for steel if guillotine gets dark, maybe a crystal orb for psychic dont know justbhas this idea of the room where you can switch rotom's form but as a torture chamber with a rack (dont sure if that's how it's called) guillotine, burning pokers, cuffs and chains everywhere


Posted from Smogon.com App for Android

[inanimate blob]

Originally Posted by Fat cocoon

Male Jynx.... *shudders*

Jynx can't be male.

[CynicalGiant]

Originally Posted by Fat Ghost Curses You

Care to elaborate? Although I do prefer the dark/steel type handcuffs evolving into this thing, it would be interesting having medieval rotom forms, based on items you find in a torture chamber in some castle ruins, the guillotine for dark or steel, an Iron maiden for steel if guillotine gets dark, maybe a crystal orb for psychic dont know justbhas this idea of the room where you can switch rotom's form but as a torture chamber with a rack (dont sure if that's how it's called) guillotine, burning pokers, cuffs and chains everywhere


Posted from Smogon.com App for Android

Rotom still doesn't have a Toy Robot or TV form yet. He goes into the TV in the 4th gen games and it is said that he was originally in a Toy Robot in pokedex entries and Platinum backstory.

I love the tags btw.

[R_N]

Originally Posted by Fat Joeyboy

Whoever added these tags is awesome, and true.

ill-conceived, inane, insipid, speculation, terrible, uninteresting, unreasonable

mod of the year

[Champion Steve]

Originally Posted by Fat Ghost Curses You

Care to elaborate? Although I do prefer the dark/steel type handcuffs evolving into this thing, it would be interesting having medieval rotom forms, based on items you find in a torture chamber in some castle ruins, the guillotine for dark or steel, an Iron maiden for steel if guillotine gets dark, maybe a crystal orb for psychic dont know justbhas this idea of the room where you can switch rotom's form but as a torture chamber with a rack (dont sure if that's how it's called) guillotine, burning pokers, cuffs and chains everywhere

Posted from Smogon.com App for Android

Well I meant that Rotom appears to only be able to take over electrical appliances. It's electric type in all its forms and its name is motor backwards. So I would just find it a little weird if it took over something non electrical. Maybe Rotom-Chair?

Originally Posted by Fat inanimate blob

Jynx can't be male.

Well...
Don't Azurills have a chance of becoming male when they evolve?
(And now my mind is trying not to think that through.)

[R_N]

Originally Posted by Fat Champion Steve

Well...
Don't Azurill's have a chance of becoming male when they evolve?
(And now my mind is trying not to think that through.)

Okay this has been bugging me for years

Has anyone actually documented an Azuril changing gender when evolving

[CynicalGiant]

Originally Posted by Fat R_N

Okay this has been bugging me for years

Has anyone actually documented an Azuril changing gender when evolving

Bulbapedia has it listed under trivia.

"Azurill is currently the only Pokémon which does not evolve based on gender whose gender ratio does not match that of its evolved forms, being female 75% of the time while Marill and Azumarill are female only 50% of the time. Due to this, one of every three female Azurill evolve into a male Marill (whether or not this will happen is determined by the hidden personality value). It is unknown if this is an error in programming or if it was intentional to reference real-world animals that change sex under specific conditions."

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Hum, rotom is electricity itself. Maybe it could posses a metal chair or something i dunno. But he will definitely get some new forms in the future since the possibilities are near endless.

[celever]

New idea: what if, in terms of STAB, a pokemon using a move the same type as it's primary type gets a 1.66 boost to the attack, whereas a pokemon using a move of the same type as it's secondary typing gets a 1.33 boost.

[inanimate blob]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

New idea: what if, in terms of STAB, a pokemon using a move the same type as it's primary type gets a 1.66 boost to the attack, whereas a pokemon using a move of the same type as it's secondary typing gets a 1.33 boost.

I think that would be pretty cool. But besides Tornadus, that would screw over Hurricane and such. It'd actually matter based on were the Pokèmon's type was positioned.

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

New idea: what if, in terms of STAB, a pokemon using a move the same type as it's primary type gets a 1.66 boost to the attack, whereas a pokemon using a move of the same type as it's secondary typing gets a 1.33 boost.

Every flying type bar Tornadus gets fucked in the rear. Outrage becomes OP. Rain teams win.

Oh dear.

[zyrefredric]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

New idea: what if, in terms of STAB, a pokemon using a move the same type as it's primary type gets a 1.5x boost to the attack, whereas a pokemon using a move of the same type as it's secondary typing gets a 1.3x boost.

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

Every flying type bar Tornadus gets fucked in the rear. Outrage becomes OP. Rain teams win.Oh dear.

As a compromise, how about we have the celever's idea when the Pokemon's gender is male, and switch the STAB boosts when the Pokemon is female. That way, the placement of type (whether it's primary or secondary), AND the ender of a Pokemon, both gain competitive aspects in ways inlike ever before.

[CBTerrakion]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

New idea: what if, in terms of STAB, a pokemon using a move the same type as it's primary type gets a 1.66 boost to the attack, whereas a pokemon using a move of the same type as it's secondary typing gets a 1.33 boost.

this would be a very bad idea imo, since so much balance would be lost, and imbalance leads to bad metagames.

[Ghost Curses You]

Ok didn't remember rotom's electrical nature, so it's most unlikely that it will ever possess non electrical stuff. Still it would be nice to find any aditional forms. I'd love my greek mythology ideas for the running legendary trio this gen coming true though, it would be amazing.


Posted from Smogon.com App for Android

[Seven Eagles]

Originally Posted by Fat CynicalGiant

I rather Dragon/Fighting be incredibly bulky but also incredibly slow.

I just had a really great idea for a Dragon/Fighting type. It would capitalize on its seven good resistances with extreme bulk, but have absolutely pitiful attacking stats to ensure that it isn't completely broken. A spread like 100/60/130/50/130/80 combined with a support-heavy movepool would make for an interesting pokemon.

The first completely defensive dragon-type, with a typing that would be completely broken if it were offensive like every other dragon, would simultaneously be a fun-to-use and unique pokemon, in addition to being a masterstroke by Trollfreak.

[CynicalGiant]

Originally Posted by Fat Seven Eagles

I just had a really great idea for a Dragon/Fighting type. It would capitalize on its seven good resistances with extreme bulk, but have absolutely pitiful attacking stats to ensure that it isn't completely broken. A spread like 100/60/130/50/130/80 combined with a support-heavy movepool would make for an interesting pokemon.

The first completely defensive dragon-type, with a typing that would be completely broken if it were offensive like every other dragon, would simultaneously be a fun-to-use and unique pokemon, in addition to being a masterstroke by Trollfreak.

Why in the world would you make a Fighting type support oriented? I don't get it. Thats not even something Trollfreak would do.

[Seven Eagles]

Originally Posted by Fat CynicalGiant

Why in the world would you make a Fighting type support oriented? I don't get it. Thats not even something Trollfreak would do.

Hariyama's pretty close, with his huge HP and phazing abilities.

A hypothetical support-oriented dragon/fighting type would probably be based off of aikido, the martial art based off of avoiding damage while not hurting your opponent. It could work!

Also, Jynx is probably never getting an evolution because people think Jynx is based off of racial stereotype as opposed to being based off of ganguro girls. It's a stupid reason and Jynx deserves an evolution but Game Freak doesn't want to start a firestorm of people screaming that they're racists.

[TM13IceBeam]

Fighting-types usually have quite a nice amount of Attack: 60 Attack gives me the feeling of "normal-type" and not "fighting-type". For reference, Machop has better Attack than this guy. Machop.

@above: Hariyama's bases are actually suited towards slow bulky offense, it just so happens to have a neat ability and a WTF movepool to fit its needs of support.

[b2j135]

Originally Posted by Fat Seven Eagles

Hariyama's pretty close, with his huge HP and phazing abilities.

A hypothetical support-oriented dragon/fighting type would probably be based off of aikido, the martial art based off of avoiding damage while not hurting your opponent. It could work!

Also, Jynx is probably never getting an evolution because people think Jynx is based off of racial stereotype as opposed to being based off of ganguro girls. It's a stupid reason and Jynx deserves an evolution but Game Freak doesn't want to start a firestorm of people screaming that they're racists.

That reminds me...did anyone else notice this: Whimsicott a brown toned cotton Pokemon is exclusive to Black and Lilligant is a white toned Southern belle Pokemon exclusive to White...no rasicm?
Also look at Whimsicott's shiny form...


and it's Pokedex entries even have to do with "slipping through small gaps" and "causing all sorts of mischief" when it "sneaks into homes".
yep...GameFreak is CLEARLY not racist AT ALL

[labarith]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

New idea: what if, in terms of STAB, a pokemon using a move the same type as it's primary type gets a 1.66 boost to the attack, whereas a pokemon using a move of the same type as it's secondary typing gets a 1.33 boost.

Well, besides radically changing how the game has played for the last x years, it would mean that you now have to know whether nidoran is poison/ground or ground/poison, which seems absolutely GD stupid.

I don't care that OU is still only about 30 pokemon, you're asking us to memorize the ORDER of something that didn't matter before for ~ 60+ pokemon (UU show up in OU for a reason) and making 2ndary types worthless.

No.

What if all bug pokemon automatically switched out when a flying type enters?

[Enraikou]

Originally Posted by Fat labarith

Well, besides radically changing how the game has played for the last x years, it would mean that you now have to know whether nidoran is poison/ground or ground/poison, which seems absolutely GD stupid.

I don't care that OU is still only about 30 pokemon, you're asking us to memorize the ORDER of something that didn't matter before for ~ 60+ pokemon (UU show up in OU for a reason) and making 2ndary types worthless.

No.

What if all bug pokemon automatically switched out when a flying type enters?

I think the idea is this: you have a normal type pokemon, snorlax for example. If the snorlax uses body slam it have 1.66X boost. But a fire/flying pokemon since it got more stabs moves, a fire move should get less than 1.66x boost, same for the flying type moves. I dont know if 1.33X boost is okay.

[Basileus]

Originally Posted by Fat labarith

Well, besides radically changing how the game has played for the last x years, it would mean that you now have to know whether nidoran is poison/ground or ground/poison, which seems absolutely GD stupid.

I don't care that OU is still only about 30 pokemon, you're asking us to memorize the ORDER of something that didn't matter before for ~ 60+ pokemon (UU show up in OU for a reason) and making 2ndary types worthless.

No.

What if all bug pokemon automatically switched out when a flying type enters?

lol, how would that even work? That is ridiculous like saying "why don't all weak pokemon run away from strong pokemon when they are sent out?" SO THE GAME STAYS FAIR.

[Infernis]

A terrible ability like Truant where the Pokemon would automatically switch out to avoid any Pokemon with a lower BST (Or under a threshold) would be hilarious.

[Seven Eagles]

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

Fighting-types usually have quite a nice amount of Attack: 60 Attack gives me the feeling of "normal-type" and not "fighting-type". For reference, Machop has better Attack than this guy. Machop.

@above: Hariyama's bases are actually suited towards slow bulky offense, it just so happens to have a neat ability and a WTF movepool to fit its needs of support.

You know how gamefreak constantly tries making defensively inclined ice-types and whenever they make a fast frail ice-type like Weavile it's really surprising? That feeling of "why does this pokemon exist" is what I'm getting at with Defensive Dragon/Fighting mon.

People want a Dragon/Fighting type specifically because it can muscle its way past steel-types who normally resist dragons. However, Dragon/Fighting resists seven types, two of those being the extremely common and powerful types of Water and Rock, is neutral to Fighting, Ground, and Ice, and is only weak to Flying, Psychic, and Dragon. Psychic is rarely seen, Defensive Dragon/Fighting presumably has the bulk to take one supereffective Dragon hit and cripple the other Dragon-type with an STAB Supereffective Dragon attack.

Basically Dragon/Fighting works really well as a defensive type and would have an interesting niche as "defensive dragon who isn't horrible", but it needs to have its attacking stats crippled to make sure that it wouldn't steamroll through every other pokemon in the game.