Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[Yveltal]

Originally Posted by Fat Preved Medved

Kyurem-B has 700 BST and is OU.The typing could ruin it even though his stats are very high.

Kyurem in general is a great example, since each of his forms are in different tiers. Imagine, if you all will, that they make a ghost/steel with a BST of 400~450, but with a necessary range of useful sweeping techniques. Rarely used? Never used?

[Flareon]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario With Lasers

I don't want pokémon to say their names, I never really liked that in the anime. However, we need them to "revamp" the cries. Seriously, Lugia's cry has Magikarp's by the end, that's ridiculous. Even Pokémon Stadium revamped the cries, Game Freak can do that for XY.

This tenfold.

Flareon's cry is cool, but then the compression noise kicks in and you get a cacophanous "Grgrk" noise (Dodrio, Articuno, Dugtrio, and Drowzee are also good examples). It'd be good if they could just remove that disgusting noise at the end.

But I guess it falls under "Legacy".

I did really like Stadium's cries for pokemon though. Perhaps an item to switch between them, like HG/SS's Gameboy music thingy?

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat Sidfrid

A few thought on a subject:

Dual typed Dragon/Fighting pokemon!!, let's theorymon a little:
Supereffective hits on: Rock, Ice, Steel, Normal, Dark and Dragon
This will surely make for a "no safe switch-in" pokemon. You predicted a furious Outrage and send over Ferrothorn? You will get obliterated by STAB Close Combat.

Of course that typing will call for a physical pokemon, because if result in a special biased pokemon, his fighting type would be wasted (Aura Sphere anyone?).

Resistance: Fire, Grass, Water, Electric, Bug, Dark, Rock (if you find this to much resistance for a non-steel type pokemon Rotom-H have 7 resistance too)

Here we have a combination of usually special types and usually physical types. Resisting the FWG core really come in handy, and you resist Megahorn and Stone Edge two of the most deadly physical attacks, no one care about resisting Dark type.

Weakness: Ice, Dragon, Psychic, Flying
Four weakness, just four weakness and you got SIX supereffective hits, this is surelly OP!! But all those weakness can be worked around, I mean there are a lost of pokemons with that weakness in OU and they are still OU (and some are Ubers)

All is great right?... right? The only thing that may keep this mighty beast at bay could be Ghost typed pokemon, and if we get the fabbled Ghost/Steel pokemon (Kitsunoh!!), that will surely be OU along with it. Ghost types tend to learn Will-O-Wisp, that will just cripple the physical one, and if this theoretical pokemon result in a Special Dragon/Fighting will be low OU for sure.

But all that talk is just about Typing, but a pokemon is more like that, Hydreigon have a nice offensive typing but it stats just keep it low OU, and not to mention learnset (now I don't remember any example of a good pokemon with terrible learnset, but maybe someone do), I hope they desing something THIS good someday!!!

One thing we need to remember when discussing things like this:
Typing does not make the 'mon
There are many pokemon with great typing but low stats, and vice versa.
Similarly, as someone stated, we have no way of knowing whether or not the pokemon will have access to what moves if it exists, so saying

Originally Posted by Fat Sidfrid

You will get obliterated by STAB Close Combat

is assuming that this "potential pokemon" will get close combat. Not to mention a worthwhile ability or good stats at all.


One thing I'm wondering is what will change in the new battling tiers? Some things are bound to shift with introduction of new pokemon and items. Just look what eviolite did to otherwise much less worthwhile pokemon. And some pokemon we think are good now may not stand up to certain things in the new game and thus move down.

Yet what I'm most interested in has to do with the way "friendship" effects battles. If this is a new battle mechanic, something could change entirely in the strategy of the metagame, and this could potentially drastically change a pokemon's usefulness.

I can't wait to see what new things this generation will hold. With all the speculation going around about types, battle mechanics, evolutions and everything else, I just have to say:

Bring it, gen 6. I'm ready for whatever you have to throw at me.


EDIT: Wow, I'm up to 111 posts. And I only joined recently. To be able to talk on this thread. Wow. That's a lot of things to say, I guess.

[Squishyfrog]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

This might be slightly off topic, but I've been seeing some really cool fakemon some of which I'd love to see in the next game or something similar. So if you want to see them, they look pretty damn awesome:

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This first one could either be just pokemon or I think was originally a future gen starter final evos, but obviously not this gen:



And this next one is just plain awesome:

I've seen that panda before and it's just freaking amazing. One of my favorite fakemon ever, along with Cactegade:

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if this dude were real he'd be my favorite pokemon ever

BUT I don't want this topic to be derailed further so I'll drop the Fakemon there.

Anyhow, the new typings I'm personally wishing for are Ghost/Steel(along with everyone else and their brother lol), Dark/Psychic, and Flying/Fighting. The last one would be cool as a superhero-esque Poke, IMO.

[Jolteon Bandit]

Originally Posted by Fat Yveltal

Kyurem in general is a great example, since each of his forms are in different tiers. Imagine, if you all will, that they make a ghost/steel with a BST of 400~450, but with a necessary range of useful sweeping techniques. Rarely used? Never used?

Kyurem is a pretty cool example in that regard, though I'm not completely sure as to why it's formes are spread across the upper tiers.

A sweeping Ghost/Steel would be hard to pull off I think. If it's physical, it would only really have Shadow Claw, Shadow Punch and Shadow Sneak as it's Ghost STAB options and if it were special it's Steel type STAB attack could only be Flash Cannon.

If it had something like:
HP-60 ATK-90 DEF-85 SATK-75 SDEF-85 SPD-50 this would make it's BST 445. It would be a fairly bulky physical attacker. If it wanted to sweep, it would need a move like Sword Dance or Autotomize. It's STAB would have decent coverage, so a movepool of something like Autotomize/Shadow Claw/Iron Head/Coverage move (Electric would give it near perfect coverage) would make it a pretty good attacker. With only two weaknesses, it would actually probably be a pretty reliable sweeper in RU with maybe even some use in UU (if it got a good ability like Sturdy or Levitate).

[Nyara]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario With Lasers

I don't want pokémon to say their names, I never really liked that in the anime. However, we need them to "revamp" the cries. Seriously, Lugia's cry has Magikarp's by the end, that's ridiculous. Even Pokémon Stadium revamped the cries, Game Freak can do that for XY.

Well, I could be OK if the Pokémon says it's name, but better could be a revamp; Pokémon Stadium did a marvelous job with that (along other wonderful things like Dodrio Gameboy), we need more things like that.

Oh, yes, but the wat, Kyurem and Kyurem-B are BL/OU for it's movepool, the type doesn't help to their cause as they can't wall that well with Stealth Rock over there, but even then Kyurem-B's Sub's set is amazing, he had the overamazing stats for pull it on work. Freeze Shock and Fusion Bolt are not that good moves, Freeze Shock is almost a 70 BP attack that's completely walled by Protect/Sustitute, you're better just using Mamoswine for the Ice STAB, then, it does had at least Icicle Crash and Ice Shard. Freeze Shock is even worst as it doesn't ever had STAB, you're just better using Thunderpunch on random stuff. Kyurem's-B unique niche is it's defensive prowess backed up with the strongest Outrage/Dragon Claw of OU without even had to invest on it, but that's not enough to make it broken, at least by some, but it's Sub. set can truly being overpowered for OU, but people prefer to put it a Choice Band and spam Freeze Shock (protip: use Mamoswine), whatever.

Kyurem can use STAB Ice Beam, but... yeah, that's not that cool when you can't outspeed anything weak to it at all, and when you can't boost it in any way apart from pinch berries, it can still be good on hail teams as a offensive back up, but hail have so many problems to being dominant on OU that you can't help it, and by alone, it's defensive sets are quite nice, but Kyurem-B outclass it for the moment.

Kyurem-B with Icicle Crash or Ice Shard (or alternative, just Dragon Dance is enough) could have been the best physical offensive jugernaut of the entire game (even surpassing Deoxys-A, and figthing against Kyurem-W and Kyogre under the rain), dragon killing like a king with Ice Shard, and destroying everything else with Icicle Crash and Dragon Claw/Outrage, but he doesn't learn them, can't be helped.

Typping does make a lot on the Pokémon, and it's stats, too, at least on the current metagame (same goes for almost any generation, actually), but if that Pokémon doesn't have any minimal decent move to take use of it's type, it just sucks. Is just like a Dragon without Dragon moves (like Dragonite on RBY), or a Electric Pokémon without Thunderbolt/Discharge (Wild Charge is fail), or a Water Pokémon without Scald/Aqua Tail/Surf/Hydro Pump/Waterfall/Crabhammer/Ice Beam. Currently, Kyurem-B's have the stats, the type, and everything for being a top threat on OU, but doesn't any, but any move to use at all, and even with 170 of base Attack you're not doing too much with 70- base power attacks who're walled by anything with substitute/protect, and he's OU just for having Dragon Claw/Outrage.

[Alice]

we need a dragon type Extremespeed and a revamped DD, boosting defense as well =)
The icing on the cake would be a dragon/fighting with 140+ base atk and those moves =)

[Basileus]

Originally Posted by Fat Alice

we need a dragon type Extremespeed and a revamped DD, boosting defense as well =)
The icing on the cake would be a dragon/fighting with 140+ base atk and those moves =)

basically you are asking to give dragons a massive upgrade that the species doesn't need...

Also, you are requesting a dragonite with 140 base attack

mfw seeing it in OU:

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[Shining Kestral]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario With Lasers

I don't want pokémon to say their names, I never really liked that in the anime. However, we need them to "revamp" the cries.

I was always disappointed that Charizard and Rhyhorn have the exact same cry, as do Ditto and Poliwag.

Though according to the Cry page Haunter's cry has actually undergone some modifications.

[Zowayix]

Here's something I'd like to bring up that doesn't seem to have been mentioned:

If there are new types in Gen VI, then there must be no backward-compatibility. Why? Hidden Power.

On a different note, I'd like to see at least one more Gym Leader that fights in a Double battle or even Triple/Rotation battle.

[shockwave527]

Something I'm wondering:

New games means new anime. Are we keeping Cilan or what? What will happen with that?

[Farrac]

I think they should revamp all the cries and keep the original as an option like what they did with the music in HGSS

[The Cicada]

I think you guys should stop saying they need to change tiny things that nobody gives a shit about

[shockwave527]

Originally Posted by Fat The Cicada

I think you guys should stop saying they need to change tiny things that nobody gives a shit about

Agreed. We're getting a new game. They're making all new 3D pokemon, a possible new battling mechanic, a brand new engine for the new system, and we're complaining about the cries? I doubt that's something they're really looking at much right now. Let's just enjoy what we're going to get and hope for the best (in the GENERAL game) rather than preparing ourselves for a letdown, asking for many, many little changes that probably won't happen.

[Count Serperior]

Originally Posted by Fat Flareon

This tenfold.

Flareon's cry is cool, but then the compression noise kicks in and you get a cacophanous "Grgrk" noise (Dodrio, Articuno, Dugtrio, and Drowzee are also good examples). It'd be good if they could just remove that disgusting noise at the end.

But I guess it falls under "Legacy".

I did really like Stadium's cries for pokemon though. Perhaps an item to switch between them, like HG/SS's Gameboy music thingy?

That "disgusting" noise is the best thing about them! You can't tell me you don't crack up every time you KO an Articuno or a Zubat!
I'm on board the Stadium-like update, although I'll miss some (hilarious) favorites like the previously mentioned two, along with Jynx/Sunflora/Regice/Electabuzz and Staraptor's "BIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRDDD!"

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Shining Kestral

I was always disappointed that Charizard and Rhyhorn have the exact same cry, as do Ditto and Poliwag.

Though according to the Cry page Haunter's cry has actually undergone some modifications.

I remember reading some talk on Serebiiforums about Magneton's and Steelix's (?) cries; apparently, they changed in FRLG, but were changed back in later games because ????.

Originally Posted by Fat Zowayix

Here's something I'd like to bring up that doesn't seem to have been mentioned:

If there are new types in Gen VI, then there must be no backward-compatibility. Why? Hidden Power.

On a different note, I'd like to see at least one more Gym Leader that fights in a Double battle or even Triple/Rotation battle.

Lolno. The transferred pokémon will have a chance of having their Hidden Power's type changed and that's it. There would be no technical issues, only continuity. Seriously, if you think they'd base their decision of adding a new type on such a measly issue...

Originally Posted by Fat The Cicada

I think you guys should stop saying they need to change tiny things that nobody gives a shit about

Says the guy who always makes useless posts on this kind of threads.

[Wishy]

Originally Posted by Fat Joeyboy

There is one thing that these games desperately need that I don't thinks been mentioned;

Proper Pokemon cries! Seriously I understood when these games were on the gameboy that they couldn't make them but this is the 3ds! Surely they can fit them in. One of the most iconic things about Pokemon is that the 'mons can only say their names, how does "bzzzttzztgggg" sound like something [insert 'mon here] would say?

Gimme good Pokemon cries plz

EDIT: BIG 1000!

That's a terrible idea. Pokemon shouting their names (...?) in the anime is cute I guess, but the more 'realistic' cries in the game work much better. Let's just keep the anime universe separate from the game universe.

They should definitely update the quality of the cries and so forth (Which they've slowly been doing, if you compare to Gen5 cries and Gen1 cries...). The cries in 3D games sound better as well, IIRC.

[Furosuto]

Speculation is great and all, but some people are seeming so hopeful/so sure that what they want will be in the game, and if it's not, then the game will suck balls.

I'm not saying everyone is doing that, but people seem to have such high fantasies on everything, right down to the movesets and competitive tiers and competitive movesets.

[Yveltal]

I think an important factor is wireless play. I really want them to introduce something similar to the Wifi Plaze from Platinum. If it were possible to have a wifi arcade function from Join Avenue for purposes outside of battling and trading while still connecting with other players using the function from around the globe, I would have skipped about a months worth of sleep. a kickass wifi arcade would be just as good of a distraction as a super contest or a movie studio, personally. That isn't to say I don't want pokemon contests back.

[labarith]

Originally Posted by Fat The Agonist

Why the hell not? The clone is a perfect copy of the original, so it makes complete sense that it can breed.

The contention is that an in-game clone would be an imperfect copy, explaining it's different colorscheme, inability to be cloned again, and inability to be bred (which should probably be nixed for gameplay reasons I discuss below)

It's a standard scifi schitck meant to suggest cloning is not an acceptable means of reproduction because "current cloning techniques fail to produce viable offspring."

More or less, in-fiction, it's also a reference to the Mew/Mew2 thing, where Mew2 is said to be an imperfect clone of Mew.

Arguably perfect clones wouldn't even need a "I'm a clone" marker, it'd just duplicate the pokemon as you do via action replay, except with a different "met" date and location. But perfect clones make pokemon feel less special (arguably any clones do).

I've proposed the following differences to clones:
a) colorscheme - gotta clone 'em all.
b) clones can't be cloned - mainly this stops the distribution from being viral (sans action replay), as your friends can't clone the clone you gave them for their friends.
c) no breeding (retracted) - While I do have in-story fiction/science concerns about the offspring of clones (who wouldn't themselves be cloned, I would hope - even if 2 clones get together, I don't think their offspring should be the cloned colorscheme or have the marker), I suppose distributing clones via GTS and friends would become really annoying as people wouldn't be able to breed their clones to help complete their pokedex or pass down egg moves.

[keleyeemoh]

Originally Posted by Fat Preved Medved

Kyurem-B has 700 BST and is OU.The typing could ruin it even though his stats are very high.

Yes, but as someone above me said, Kyurem-B is only OU because of its awful movepool. Even just give the guy Icicle Crash, maybe even Ice Punch, and he's Uber for sure.

[Pika25]

Come to think of it, speaking of the word movepool, GF had better edit the Eeveelutions' level-up learn sets to make room for another move, including Flare Blitz on Flareon, and possibly even Crunch (maybe even on Eevee itself!)

[Count Serperior]

If you remember, in the Stadium games (which were by HAL Labs, not Gamefreak..), a pokemon who has been given a nickname would have a slightly different color. I remember my Mewtwo had a slight maroon tint and looked pretty bad ass.

Concerning Wi-fi, I just want random wi-fi, like the one in PBR : /
(OK, maybe this is already in BW and I don't know about it because it sounds so simple..)

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Pika25

Come to think of it, speaking of the word movepool, GF had better edit the Eeveelutions' level-up learn sets to make room for another move, including Flare Blitz on Flareon, and possibly even Crunch (maybe even on Eevee itself!)

You meant Blaze Kick. Flare Blitz would suck for Flareon. Like, 200% suck. 300%, even.

[reaverz]

On the subject of updated cries for older Pokemon, I think it might have actually been hinted at in the trailer. Did anyone else notice that when the encounter with a wild Pikachu was shown, the camera was closing in on Pikachu and then abruptly cut away to the next shot with Pikachu up close and the text "A wild Pikachu appeared!"? What if they edited it that way so that we wouldn't hear Pikachu's cry because it was updated? I think it's a bit suspicious that they cut away like that since the first shot would have naturally flowed into the second shot...

Updated cries for old Pokemon could be something that they're withholding for now so that it could be a surprise. I would imagine that they would take the older cries and update them to sound as if they came from Gen IV or V. I know I can't be the only one who feels that the old beeps and bloops would sound jarring coming from the 3D models...