Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat jonmccaskill

Concerning this new Gen, I feel that we are getting a lot of new Defensive Pokemon a'la Gen 2. Remember how everyone was freaking out about chansey getting an Evolution? The metagame sorely needs strong defensive Pokemon. I feel we really don't need many new Pokemon with 120+ Attacking stats. I feel the metagame needs Pokes to supplement the blatant power creep we got last gen.

I'm pretty sure after 5 generations of Pokemon and two, no, three generations? of competitive battling by Ninten-fucking-do you should be aware that they do not really care about the balance of single metagames.

Yes, defensive Pokemon will be nice, but no, I don't think we will get a lot of defensive guys, with this current trend. I won't be surprised if some random derp caught on Route 2 of the game eventually gets like Rayquaza-like offenses in its final evolution or something.

[Flaming Piranha]

I don't want many hyper-offensive Pokés, but at the same time, I don't want too many stalling Pokémon. Stall matches are just boring in my opinion. But like TM13IceBeam said, I doubt Gamefreak will make tons of defensive Pokémon, as they couldn't care less about the metagame.

[Sterero]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

.
Other possibility: Plusle and Minun evolutions, needing trading with the opposite while having full happiness (maybe even somehow make them fire/electric and ice/electric, two never-before-used types I've been waiting for), or a third/thirdfourth for the set, either a light green "Zeiro" zero-based one, a purple "Divizor" for division, or an orange "Multix" for multiplication.
But now I'm getting too mathy. I just think they could do a bit more with those two.

I would just like to point out that all evolutions of old Pokemon in new generations involve some way that is not available in the older generation, like happiness evolutions and held items for Gen II and location specific evolutions for Gen IV. It's a pretty clever way of avoiding continuity issues :P. If they're going to give evolutions to old Pokemon, it will either be a new held item, a new location, or an entirely new mechanic.

[pharaohcalvin]

Originally Posted by Fat Sterero

I would just like to point out that all evolutions of old Pokemon in new generations involve some way that is not available in the older generation, like happiness evolutions and held items for Gen II and location specific evolutions for Gen IV. It's a pretty clever way of avoiding continuity issues :P. If they're going to give evolutions to old Pokemon, it will either be a new held item, a new location, or an entirely new mechanic.

Not true, Philoswine and Licktung could both get the moves used to evolve them in past gens. So yeah...but for the most part it is true.

[Deglas]

Originally Posted by Fat Flaming Piranha

I don't want many hyper-offensive Pokés, but at the same time, I don't want too many stalling Pokémon. Stall matches are just boring in my opinion. But like TM13IceBeam said, I doubt Gamefreak will make tons of defensive Pokémon, as they couldn't care less about the metagame.

It isn't so much that Gamefreak doesn't care about the metagame, but rather that most players are not competitive, and want more awesome Charizard-like Pokemon instead of boring Blissey-like Pokemon.

[czechm8]

Originally Posted by Fat Deglas

It isn't so much that Gamefreak doesn't care about the metagame, but rather that most players are not competitive, and want more awesome Charizard-like Pokemon instead of boring Blissey-like Pokemon.

This. Game freak needs to appeal to the young children that make up a large percentage of buyers. There are a few cool looking defensive mons Skarmory, and tentacruel come to mind, but specially defensive pokes tend to be squishey and smooth; while physically defensive ones are normally jagged or obviously hard I.e. ferrothorn and forretress.

[inanimate blob]

Originally Posted by Fat czechm8

This. Game freak needs to appeal to the young children that make up a large percentage of buyers. There are a few cool looking defensive mons Skarmory, and tentacruel come to mind, but specially defensive pokes tend to be squishey and smooth; while physically defensive ones are normally jagged or obviously hard I.e. ferrothorn and forretress.

And they do playtest with new Pokèmon, as well, although that's common knowledge. Despite what some think, they don't just slap a Pokèmon together, so I bet we'll be fairly content with whatever they give us.

I'm more excited for seeing the flops in the metagame after hype, though. Three examples that come to mind are Electivire, Porygon-Z, and Galvantula. People were originally like "Gyaravire is god!" and "Porygon-Z can do damage to Blissey specially. Woah", while with Galvantula people were excited about its typing until they realized...it wasn't as good as we hoped, even with good stats and Compoundeyes Thunder.

It'll be exciting to see what happens. :)

[HabibsHotDogs]

Nothing beats the overhype for Hydreigon and Thundurus-T.

Hydreigon was a "monster" and "this thing will wreck OU".. it ended up doing some time in UU and BL and is probably now barely OU with a little help from its 600 BST.

With the initial release of the therians, it seemed everybody thought Thundurus-T was too strong and "omg its worse than I"... Tornadus-T was shunned because it lost offensive stats but I remember stating "Atk drop doesn't matter, superpower > hammer arm makes up for it" and every time I said that the speed increase was more important than the sp attack drop... I'd just get "Thundurus-T is going to ubers". Oh lawd.. the irony.

[Seth Vilo]

Originally Posted by Fat inanimate blob

And they do playtest with new Pokèmon, as well, although that's common knowledge. Despite what some think, they don't just slap a Pokèmon together, so I bet we'll be fairly content with whatever they give us.

I'm more excited for seeing the flops in the metagame after hype, though. Three examples that come to mind are Electivire, Porygon-Z, and Galvantula. People were originally like "Gyaravire is god!" and "Porygon-Z can do damage to Blissey specially. Woah", while with Galvantula people were excited about its typing until they realized...it wasn't as good as we hoped, even with good stats and Compoundeyes Thunder.

It'll be exciting to see what happens. :)

There was also the period that Reuniclus was about to be banned in early BW banning-periods. Now we never hear a thing about it cause people learned how to deal with it. There was also Whimsicott being a huge OU utility that is now only revered by Poke-hipsters (yes I admit to it...).

I'm excited about this aspect too though. Really excited. I love watcihng hype live and die.

Man I wish Galvantula was better... Flavor-wise it's so freakin' cool...

[Hemp Man]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

You don't understand; 65 base HP and 65 Speed pretty much ensure that Flareon WILL die the turn it uses Flare Blitz against something it actually hurts. It is going to get hit first against most opponents, and even if that doesn't kill it, the recoil WILL. Darmanitan has recoil issues with much better speed and 105 base HP; what chance does Flareon have?.

V-Create and Contrary ability, taht is what can save Flareon.

[Flareon]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

@Yveltal

You should link to the original source for that (it's one of those rumors that are almost certainly false that've been circulating), so people don't assume YOU are making those claims :P. While I understand what you're saying in the first line, some people might miss it.


@MeteorMiss

You don't understand; 65 base HP and 65 Speed pretty much ensure that Flareon WILL die the turn it uses Flare Blitz against something it actually hurts. It is going to get hit first against most opponents, and even if that doesn't kill it, the recoil WILL. Darmanitan has recoil issues with much better speed and 105 base HP; what chance does Flareon have?

Anyway, I don't have much else to add... what hasn't been said already? One or more Eeveeolutions would be awesome of course, screw those who say that the schtick with Eevee has been carried out too far. Eeveeolutions have traditionally been so awesome that you really shouldn't give a damn imo. But that's not new discussion.

I just wish that we didn't have to wait so long for more information. I want something concrete to discuss.

I JUST WANT USEFUL STAB, IS THAT A CRIME?!

[Farrac]

Flareon with V-Create. Now that's a good stab. Doubt GF will do it though.

Anyway, anyone knows when is going to be the next Nintendo Direct? Maybe they'll show something interesting there.

[Blazen]

It should also be mentioned that Flareon is completely outclassed by Arcanine, and Darmanitan. They are already Pure Fire types with a focus on Attack, and decent abilities. There are a few things that could give it a niche though. V-Create (not gonna happen unless the other Eeveelutions also get previoulsy Legend exclusive moves), Technician, or the Egg move idea I suggested earlier. Despite all that I just don't find it likely for Flareon to ever end up higher than RU. That's okay though. RU is home to some of my personal favorites.

[inanimate blob]

Originally Posted by Fat Blazen

It should also be mentioned that Flareon is completely outclassed by Arcanine, and Darmanitan. They are already Pure Fire types with a focus on Attack, and decent abilities. There are a few things that could give it a niche though. V-Create (not gonna happen unless the other Eeveelutions also get previoulsy Legend exclusive moves), Technician, or the Egg move idea I suggested earlier. Despite all that I just don't find it likely for Flareon to ever end up higher than RU. That's okay though. RU is home to some of my personal favorites.

Actually, with Flare Blitz, Flareon would get a niche - it'd be similar to a Fire-type Swellow, die young and die hard. It gets Guts, which is an amazing ability for physical attackers, so adding a supercharged Flare Blitz into the mix would add a lot of power. It'd be like Victini, just dropping a nuke essentially.

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Preved Medved

Two?Melloeta and Deoxys aren't Pixies.

Event Legendaries at the end of the Dex. Pixie enough.

Originally Posted by Fat HabibsHotDogs

Nothing beats the overhype for Hydreigon and Thundurus-T.

Hydreigon was a "monster" and "this thing will wreck OU".. it ended up doing some time in UU and BL and is probably now barely OU with a little help from its 600 BST.

With the initial release of the therians, it seemed everybody thought Thundurus-T was too strong and "omg its worse than I"... Tornadus-T was shunned because it lost offensive stats but I remember stating "Atk drop doesn't matter, superpower > hammer arm makes up for it" and every time I said that the speed increase was more important than the sp attack drop... I'd just get "Thundurus-T is going to ubers". Oh lawd.. the irony.

Lol nope. Hydreigon was fine, what really killed it was the Latis being unbanned (I'm sure people thought they would get the boot if they ever were OU again). It's a potent pokémon as expected, only its usage was wrongly hyped.

You want to know what really was hyped?

Rhyperior.

Really, fuck Electivire. That's some dipshit young kids like to talk about only to look cool. Rhyperior was the true hype trainwreck. There was going to be a fucking tournament to evaluate Rhyperior's possible Uber status, once US DP got released. Then April 22nd came and... well... there were literally zero posts about Rhyperior for a week or two. Like. Literally. Nothing. Zero. Nada. Not a single word on the forums. People didn't even have the balls to come up and say "lol it sucks" because it sucked so fucking hard jesus christ I'm dying. It was a bit of shame mixed with astonishment at how sucky Rhyperior was, compared to its hype. It took people a while to start bullying Rhyperior, and even then it was a bit shy because shit dude even Electivire is better than you

[Flareon]

Originally Posted by Fat Blazen

It should also be mentioned that Flareon is completely outclassed by Arcanine, and Darmanitan. They are already Pure Fire types with a focus on Attack, and decent abilities. There are a few things that could give it a niche though. V-Create (not gonna happen unless the other Eeveelutions also get previoulsy Legend exclusive moves), Technician, or the Egg move idea I suggested earlier. Despite all that I just don't find it likely for Flareon to ever end up higher than RU. That's okay though. RU is home to some of my personal favorites.

Flareon does have that weird 110 Sp.Def going for it though. Granted, that's a stretch, but Flare Blitz would just give Flareon a useful STAB move, which he desperately needs. I can't think of any other pokemon that got so royally screwed over in the movepool department. G4 Luxray was in a similar boat, but it received Wild Charge in G5. I'd personally give Flareon Crunch too, so it'd get the same coverage the other Eeveelutions get from Shadow Ball. Between Flare Blitz, Superpower, Crunch, Facade, and Flame Charge, you could cobble together a good set.

Originally Posted by Fat inanimate blob

Actually, with Flare Blitz, Flareon would get a niche - it'd be similar to a Fire-type Swellow, die young and die hard. It gets Guts, which is an amazing ability for physical attackers, so adding a supercharged Flare Blitz into the mix would add a lot of power. It'd be like Victini, just dropping a nuke essentially.

This too.

Excuse the silly question, but it's one that's always bugged me. Which matters more, a high BP or Higher attack stat?

Essentially what I'm asking is, how powerful would a STAB Neutral Flareon Flare Blitz (Both with and without Guts) be in relation to a STAB neutral Victini V-Create?

[Flareon]

Originally Posted by Fat Mario With Lasers

Event Legendaries at the end of the Dex. Pixie enough.

Pixies have a 600 BST though. I'd say Meloetta's a pixie, but not Deoxys.

Then again, I don't use the term "Pixies", but rather "Event pokemon".

EDIT: Double post, my bad. I've been on another forum that auto-merges double posts, so I've gotten into that habit.

[shockwave527]

IDEA:
I was just watching something, and they said this:

It doesn't seem fair how, when we stand in tall grass, we fight pokemon and take damage, but other trainer's pokemon are all perfectly healed. What if you went into battle and someone had their pokemon already damaged or a move already used up?

Now, I know potions are one explanation, but this could be cool. It could be a good way to introduce more powerful pokemon earlier through strong trainers that have been training but maybe they have half of the PP on some moves or lowered health, making them easier to take out? Maybe they could have preexisting status conditions? There's not MUCH of a reason against it, and it could make the game a bit more realistic that you're not the ONLY one out there to actually battle anyone but yourself.

Another idea I've had:
Opponents pokemon level up in battle. You give them experience, and maybe some pokemon are set randomly to "if I get 100 exp, I will level up". Then after 2 of your pokemon die, you'd end up facing a level 28 instead of 27. Again, more realistic, and encouraging not to just let pokemon die for no reason.

I'd also like to be able to evolve in battle. This could also work with the previous idea, as opponent's pokemon leveling up could evolve in battle, maybe even gain new moves. This could be interesting in a rival battle where if your opponent's, say, chespin kills one of your pokemon, that chespin becomes a chespike (or whatever) as a way to introduce the new form.

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat Flareon

Flareon does have that weird 110 Sp.Def going for it though. Granted, that's a stretch, but Flare Blitz would just give Flareon a useful STAB move, which he desperately needs. I can't think of any other pokemon that got so royally screwed over in the movepool department. G4 Luxray was in a similar boat, but it received Wild Charge in G5. I'd personally give Flareon Crunch too, so it'd get the same coverage the other Eeveelutions get from Shadow Ball. Between Flare Blitz, Superpower, Crunch, Facade, and Flame Charge, you could cobble together a good set.


This too.

Excuse the silly question, but it's one that's always bugged me. Which matters more, a high BP or Higher attack stat?

Essentially what I'm asking is, how powerful would a STAB Neutral Flareon Flare Blitz (Both with and without Guts) be in relation to a STAB neutral Victini V-Create?

You multiply Base Power and Attack so you have a rough estimate of the damage.

394 x 120 = 47280
591 x 120 = 70920
328 x 180 = 59040

Now, good luck actually activating Guts... or not dying to Flare Blitz...

I still think the best thing for Flareon would be have gotten Huge Power from the Dream World. Essentially, it would be a 130 Base Atk pokémon with 100BP STAB that boosts its Speed by +1, 120BP Dark Move that may flinch, 204BP Normal move that has massive neutral coverage, 80BP Fighting move which may lower the opponent's Defense by -1, huhhhh OH YES 240BP Fighting move that would work like a nuke. Oh yeah, and maybe Blaze Kick, a 170BP STAB to incinerate everything.

Spoilers: Huge Power Flareon using Blaze Kick is still weaker than Medicham's Hi Jump Kick. And slower. Oh, and there's that SR weakness. And Water weakness. Oh, and Ground weakness too. Man, even Breloom may outspeed you. Yeah. You may kind of suck even then. Jesus.

Originally Posted by Fat Flareon

Pixies have a 600 BST though. I'd say Meloetta's a pixie, but not Deoxys.

Then again, I don't use the term "Pixies", but rather "Event pokemon".

EDIT: Double post, my bad. I've been on another forum that auto-merges double posts, so I've gotten into that habit.

Deoxys also has 600 BST. In fact, all Event legendaries short of Keldeo (which has 580) have 600 BST.

[HabibsHotDogs]

by pixe: we are referring to the lightweight pokemon that tend to be 'cute, and prone to mischief' in the anime with 100 stats across the board.

mew > celebi > jirachi > shaymin (arguably manaphy) > victini

Oh, they're also one time catch pokemon.. and tend to be troublesome finding/etc but are 'worth it'.

[Jirachi6]

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

Another idea I've had:
Opponents pokemon level up in battle. You give them experience, and maybe some pokemon are set randomly to "if I get 100 exp, I will level up". Then after 2 of your pokemon die, you'd end up facing a level 28 instead of 27. Again, more realistic, and encouraging not to just let pokemon die for no reason.

I'm not sure that this idea will work. Sure, it would add realism, but I see two problems.
The first is that the game could become too hard. Younger players struggling against a particularly difficult trainer would find battling that trainer even harder. Some people like to keep trying to battle a tough opponent until they win. If this mechanic was present in Platinum when I battled Jupiter's Skuntank, I would have been discouraged early on.
The second problem is that this may be a problem for game memory that could be spent on other details. How would these data be stored? Remember that the region could have many, many trainers, and this information could take up more space than it seems.

[Nyara]

V-Create + Contrary = Maybe Flareon may have a (useful) niche.

That's pretty much all about Flareon, Flare Blitz? A - really poor's man - version of Swellow who can't do anything at all without dying because everything and Shell Smash Shuckle can outspeed it, anyway. Blaze Kick? Fire Blast is still doing more damage with Flareon than Blaze Kick, and you're just trading 5% oc accuracy. Even with V-Create + Contrary, Flareon will have huge problems in order to "setup", gosh, I don't thing he'll rise to the current RU with even that.

Basically, Flareon does have one of worsts stat spreads of the entire game, it's unique niche is "I'm a sorta of special tank that can hit hard from both sides", not bad, but Stealth Rock really destroy him as a offensive tank as you can't switch-in too offen, and taking in account Flareon is weak to Mixed Swepeers and to water... he's not the best at the job, at least on the current metagame. He was UU on the past until DPPt, but from DPPt, defensive Fire Types are so bad that it makes Flareon near to non-viable on even NU.

Flareon just doesn't have nothing to work out, if on the future Stealth Rock gets a debuff, Water stop to being so-hell-dominant, and the metagame request the need of a special tank anti-fire/grass/ice/bug and wall breaker of grass/ice/bugs/steels, then Flareon may see a use, but that's not happening for now, so, if you're fire-type, you need to being a fast hard hitter, or you're nothing (Heatran is an exception, but more for it's secondary type).

tl;dr: You can't sweep with null physical defense and low speed, and you can't even being "a sacrficial pivot" with null speed. So, Flareon is a special tank who hits hard from both sides, or who can make some use of curse, but on the current metagame, a special tank with weakness to Stealth Rock and water is near to useless.

[Mario With Lasers]

The 3DS carts can hold data up to gigabytes. Data space wouldn't be a problem. Usually, what really takes a LOT of space is textures and songs, not mere trainer rosters.

Besides, in your example... had Platinum been done that way, probably Jupiter would have a Stunky just short of evolving; if you defeat if quickly, great job. If you let it kill 1-2 of yours... lol Skuntank. Easy.

[Majestic Electric]

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but what kinds of new Pokeballs do you think will be introduced this time around (no, Dragon Balls don't count)?

[Dcae]

I think an idea for Poke Balls would be to introduce something for during the day, a sort of counterpart to a Dusk Ball. Apart from that, I can only think of maybe one specifically for legendaries, but that would be destroy the purpose of the Master Ball for younger kids playing the game.