Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[Lord Jesseus]

Originally Posted by Fat TheMrBassdude

I want the main protagonist in a Bond tux

I was quite sad in DPPt that you could only wear the suit during contests and not in the rest of the game. :(

[Dilasc]

I'm curious if it's ALL of France. If it is, then the Pokeworld is skewed. The Japanese regions and NYC, if they're of similar size to Franceland... I shudder think of how this planet would even work.

[The Diverman]

Originally Posted by Fat Basileus

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That made me lol. Dat face.

Originally Posted by Fat GeeZee

I just hope we'll get full character creation and "houses" you can buy, with certain clothing and furniture being unlocked over time, or having you to buy it (if you want to) as you go to different cities, in different shops.

I don't really want pokemon to turn into a sim game. I wouldn't mind the character customization, but leave the rest to Animal Crossing. :p

[Wishy]

Originally Posted by Fat Infernis

I would love this. Though it brings in a story problem: why have Elite 4's at all when they can all be fought at once in one place? Does that count for becoming the Champion?

What's the difference between them battling the E4 members and all the gym leaders & champions? Think of it as 'unofficial' non-league battles.

[Scorpio]

Originally Posted by Fat Practisecactus

Sylveon is going to be, in my opinion, one of three types, and please bear with me as many of these arguments may have already been mentioned.
Bug: Its eyes look kinda buggy, and its name may be derived from the sylvae, which is Latin for forests; as we've already had a grass type, bug could quite possibly be the next in line. However, this is my least favourite theory.

Normal: It looks like a normal type. White/pink colouring, a pink bow (GSC normal-type booster) and in my opinoin it doesn't look like it fits many other types. Also, according to its name in multiple languages, it may be a fairy-styled evolution. A sylph and a nymph (from English and French names) are both mythological fairy-type creatures. Similarly, the Dutch name, Feelinara, may be derived from fee, Dutch for fairy (I think). And if past fairies are anything to go by, this points us in the normal direction.

Light: Now, before people are up in arms about the light type, and I know OP told us not to talk about it, I honestly think it is a possible type. According to what I've read as I haven't actually read the reveal article, questions such as "what type is it?" were regularly thrown around. While this isn't enough of an argument to quantify a new type as it may just be GF increasing the buzz over this new pokemon, it seems like way too much effort for a normal type. Going back to the normal argument, it's very likely this is a fairy-based pokemon, and fairies are often associated with light.

If anyone else here is a subscriber to the fighting-dark-psychic reverse-starter triangle, wouldn't it make sense if the legendaries were to do the same thing? What if, and this is all just wild speculation, Yveltal was a dark/flying type and Xerneas was a grass/light type, thus countering one another? I know this doesn't account for a third legendary, though psychic/rock does fit in there assuming psychic is strong against light.

Also, just as a side note, it is likely that there will be another eeveelution announced, and my money, if Sylveon is indeed light type, is on ghost. I think light will be super-effective on ghost and dark and weak against psychic (just to balance out that group), and the eeveelutions have always had one strong against the other when released.

I apologise for the length of this post, but I feel there are strengths in my arguments and I wanted to share it with the community.

You do have some points, but I'm going to play the Devil's Advocate if you don't mind and suggest Flying-type for Sylveon. As for my reasons, 'Sylph', in addition to the fariy-ness, also has heavy associations with wind. Also, the official chart a ways back had parallel Eeveelutions, one of which hit the other super-effectively. Sylveon is next to Jolteon, and the only thing left that Electric hits SE is Flying. Plus, the typing hype may be due to the fact that pure-Flying is still a somewhat new concept. But most of your arguments are valid, I'm just throwing out something to consider.

Also, if Light-type does in fact come into fruition, here's what I think the stats will be:

Resists: Electric, Water, Fighting, Itself
SE hit by: Dark, Poison
Resisted by: Fire, Ice, Grass, Ghost, Itself
SE Hits: Dark, Dragon (shot in the dark here, but possibly), Poison

[Wishy]

What is everybody wishing for in regards to gym types? Dark is probably the #1 for a lot of people, and I'm not sure why they've never made a Dark type gym (at least three Elite 4 members specialize in Dark).

I'd really like to see Dark, Fire, Grass, Psychic & Ground be used again (or in Dark's case, for the first time!). E4 could be Water, Electric, Normal & Flying... I dunno, something that hasn't been done before.

I wonder what kind of process the team go through to select the types for the gyms and E4...

[CrazyCarl]

My wishlist:

-Movepool is increased

Pokemon forgetting moves is dumb, and is only there because GameFreak is too lazy to rework their game and balance them.


-HM's are eliminated or don't require a normal move space to use

Kind of goes with the last one, but not entirely. Assuming the movepool stays how it is, then I could, for example, still teach and use my Gyarados to use Dive and Waterfall, but it doesn't take over his 4 battle moves.


-TM's and egg moves are eliminated

Instead you have to train your pokemon to learn the moves in some fashion


-Version Exclusives are eliminated

Stupid game mechanic that only exists in order to encourage kids to play with each other. Also would like to see starter pokemon in the wild. I think version exclusive legendaries do make sense, on the other hand (Ho-Oh, Lugia for example).


-Accuracy is fixed

I.e. some moves start off with over 100 accuracy base so that even if a pokemon raises evasion once you would still hit 100%, items that help with accuracy, moves that would counter evasion boosts, a stricter limit on evasion boost (maybe 2 or 3 times rather than 6)


-IV's and EV's are drastically changed, or eliminated with natures taking on a bigger role that deals with more stats

I don't understand much at all about these, whatever it is that you guys call RNG around here, or anything of the sort. Because they're way too annoying. All I know is, this stuff is a huge pain in the ass to deal with unless you're cheating, and it's stupid. I'm not completely against some pokemon having a higher or lower ceiling than others, but the way it is now is ridiculous. I think it's 6 or 7 values with a range of 1-31, or something like that. That's before we throw in the 25 or something natures.

No one likes catching the same pokemon 500 times in order to find a good one, and everyone just cheats to do it anyways. This desperately needs to be fixed.

The natures were done very well.. why can't it be more reasonable like this?

[The Diverman]

Well in the trailer we saw what could be a Psychic/Ghost Gym, a Bug Gym, and a possible Fire E4 member's room, so with that in mind:
Gym order:
Bug
Grass
Rock
Psychic
Dragon
Electric
Dark
Ground

E4: Water, New type(trolololo), Steel, and Fire
Champion: Poison

[breh]

Originally Posted by Fat CrazyCarl

I hope the movepool is increased, and HM's are eliminated or don't require a normal move space to use.

Tbh I'm ok with gen 5 tms. If cut is removed, the moves they teach are actually pretty good. Strength, Surf, Fly, and Waterfall are all usable ingame.

[Ryanide]

HM's need to be revised. The only two recurring HMs that are any good are Surf and Waterfall, and those are staple moves for water type offense. Why can't the others be just as useful?

Cut - 30 base power. Hits up to three times. very high critical hit rate. Powerful early game move now and potentially useful for technician pokemon for breaking subs later on.

Strength - base power remains the same. Is now a fighting-type move. Offers a nice simplistic base 80 power fighting move to a lot of pokemon who would otherwise rely on weaker alternatives like brick break. Still mostly outclassed though.

Fly - 2nd turn has a pursuit effect, and will chase pokemon who attempt to switch out. Still a relatively weak flying type attack, with plenty of moves that counter it. (thunder and such)

[Nyara]

But Fly is still a good move, one of better moves for in-game play, and Strenght is exactly a fast Return if you don't walk too much with your Pokémon, the unique ugly HMs were:

- Flash
It's not exactly bad, it's effect is good in-game for harder trainers, but its accuracy was horrible shaky on the past, if it were a HM again, it could be decent/good for in-game.

- Cut
Not exactly a bad move in-game, it's really a shame for later, the bad part is the fact that you can't put it out until later on the game, the good part is you can just remove it later as the game doesn't except you to use Cut again at all.

- Rock Smash
On the past this move was horrible, 20BP is just too low for being of use, but with the increase to 40BP, it's a good coverage move for some Pokémon in-game as it's kinda widespread, and a good bunch of Pokémon can't get a fighting attack apart from Hidden Power or Rock Smash.

- Whirpool
Not that bad for bulky-waters, but that's pretty much all, at least they increased it's power a bit, but it's still a bad HM.

- Defog
This move needs urgently a buff.

And... end list, Rock Climb is powerful, can confuse, and is cool, and you're not minding too much for it's accuracy in-game, Strenght tends to come early and it's just like almost-as-powerful Return but without the need of walking with your Pokémon 50+ hours. Dive is exactly the same stuff than Waterfall, but you can also stall damage and PP with that.

Of course, on competitive battles with humans, Fly and Dive are not so-great moves because your opponent will just switch-out, but that's the same problem as any 2-turns-move (and still they worked at some degree on the past on competitive battles, is just the metagame is too fast now), and Strength/Rock Climb are outclassed by max happiness Return (unless you're using Sheer Force), but... meh, the 95% of the moves are outclassed or are just considered obscure. Waterfall is not even a great move at all, but physical water pals doesn't have other option at all, so, Surf is the unique really powerful and not-outclassed HM for competitive battles.

Oh, yeah, but on competitive battles you will never use HM's for it's external use, as your in-game team will rarely be your competitive battle team, anyway, so, there is not need to improve the HM's more.

[Flaming Piranha]

Originally Posted by Fat Ryanide

To add fuel to the 'Fennekin Anubis' rumor. Lucario isn't based off Anubis at all. His design is based off Asian martial artists of legend who use blindfolds to block out their sense of sight, allowing them to heighten their inner power 'chi' (in Lucario's case, it's called aura) to 'feel' their opponent's actions and anticipate them flawlessly in combat.

Originally Posted by Fat Bulbapedia

Lucario appears to be based on the Egyptian god of funerals, Anubis, who has the head of a jackal. Anubis's role in Egyptian mythology was to judge the hearts of deceased souls based on their actions during life. This resembles Lucario's ability to see a life form's aura.

While part of Lucario's origin is based on the martial artists you stated, it is definitely based on anubis as well. Just look at the two together; they definitely have similarities.

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[Ryanide]

Originally Posted by Fat Flaming Piranha

While part of Lucario's origin is based on the martial artists you stated, it is definitely based on anubis as well. Just look at the two together; they definitely have similarities.

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I really don't think so, beside the simple surface thing of them both being anthropomorphic canines with headgears. Lucario doesn't have the classic Egyptian eye markings of Anubis, nor does he encorporate any themes of the underworld, death, or afterlife. Lucario resembles moreso a wolf wearing a martial arts gi/shorts. Wolves have been a significant symbol in Asian martial arts. It's resemblance to anubis is really just it's silouhette, but I don't think it has any intentional design link to Anubis.

Lucario's ability, as I'd stated before, has nothing to do with Anubis's life/death deal. Lucario can see the life spirit of other creatures because it's a master of the mystical Chi (qi, aura), which supposedly allowed especially skilled martial artists to feel the presence and intent of other living creatures even when their other senses were dulled or removed. Given Lucario's fighting basis and the fact that it uses aura powered attacks is less of a stretch than it's ability being a reference to Anubis. Bulbapedia needs to revise that, I think.

[cantab]

Originally Posted by Fat Flareon

Oh god I loved those.

But if they returned, they'd ruin my hope that Secret Power becomes a Physical Hidden Power.

I've mentioned it several times, but I think a Physical Hidden power is desperately needed.

Natural Gift says hi. Yes it's a one-time move and you can't use another item, but deal. Consdering the advantages physical attackers enjoy, like Dragon Dance and not having Blissey in their way, I think special attackers deserve their advantages kept to them.

Originally Posted by Fat Infernis

Since we're in France, it seems, I wonder if we'll have a nearby Monaco substitute for a Game Corner. It is one of the most gambling-dense places on Earth.

We won't be let in the casinos - the player characters is a ten-year-old kid after all! But the atmosphere would be really good. Maybe give us a racing mini-game set there too :-D

Originally Posted by Fat CrazyCarl

My wishlist:

-Movepool is increased

Pokemon forgetting moves is dumb, and is only there because GameFreak is too lazy to rework their game and balance them.

The four move slots is key to the game's strategy and the competitive balance, and also differentiates Pokemon from other RPGs that let you use the whole raft of techniques.

-TM's and egg moves are eliminated

Instead you have to train your pokemon to learn the moves in some fashion

So replace an instant process with one requiring some sort of training mini-game or having to use a move while it's weak in order to make it strong a la the much-maligned Final Fantasy II. No thank you.

-Version Exclusives are eliminated

Not going to happen unless versions themselves are eliminated.

-Accuracy is fixed

I.e. some moves start off with over 100 accuracy base so that even if a pokemon raises evasion once you would still hit 100%, items that help with accuracy, moves that would counter evasion boosts, a stricter limit on evasion boost (maybe 2 or 3 times rather than 6)

The items exist, Wide and Zoom lenses. The moves exist, you've got never-miss attacks like Swift, Haze to reset all stats, and evasion-lowering moves like Defog, Gravity, and Sweet Scent. The boost limits exist, accuracy and evasion follow a different formula than the other stats that reduces the effect of any number of boosts.

-IV's and EV's are drastically changed, or eliminated with natures taking on a bigger role that deals with more stats

This would mean no transferring Pokemon between BW2 and XY. That's all I'll say on the matter.

[GeeZee]

Originally Posted by Fat The Diverman

I don't really want pokemon to turn into a sim game. I wouldn't mind the character customization, but leave the rest to Animal Crossing. :p

Yeah, true. But I meant the "houses" to be like the secret bases in RSE; you'd only get one if you wanted one and knew how to get one.

[Practisecactus]

Originally Posted by Fat Scorpio

Also, if Light-type does in fact come into fruition, here's what I think the stats will be:

Resists: Electric, Water, Fighting, Itself
SE hit by: Dark, Poison
Resisted by: Fire, Ice, Grass, Ghost, Itself
SE Hits: Dark, Dragon (shot in the dark here, but possibly), Poison

The only reason I think light will be weak to psychic is because it will probably be associated with that trio of weird types (dark, ghost, psychic) and as psychic is weak to both, it would make sense to make it strong against light, to balance it out.

As for other types, I would've thought it to be super effective against ghost, dark and possibly bug, doesn't affect steel and is resisted by grass and fire as you mentioned along with itself. I can understand why you mentioned dragon, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

Also, if this was the case, would we see clefairy, togepi, chansey etc adopt a light secondary? Could increase their usage a bit if it was a good coverage type.

And for lulz, if you have a shiny pokemon, light type attacks hit the user instead due to reflectiveness :P

EDIT: If light was for some reason super-effective against electricity along with the other types I mentioned, there would no longer be pokemon that have no weaknesses. Sableye/Spiritomb would receive 4x weaknesses, eelektross would get a regular 2x. Crazy mix-up.

[The Shadow Lugia]

Originally Posted by Fat The Diverman

Well in the trailer we saw what could be a Psychic/Ghost Gym, a Bug Gym, and a possible Fire E4 member's room, so with that in mind:
Gym order:
Bug
Grass
Rock
Psychic
Dragon
Electric
Dark
Ground

E4: Water, New type(trolololo), Steel, and Fire
Champion: Poison

Ooh, Dark gym leader, and a poison champ? I approve

[Lork]

i think it's highly unlikely the new eeveeiution would be normal, so to me flying makes the most sense. if it isn't flying it'll be normal.

[Basileus]

Originally Posted by Fat Lork

i think it's highly unlikely the new eeveeiution would be normal, so to me flying makes the most sense. if it isn't flying it'll be normal.

Oh god not this again, can we please move off of sylveon for even a second???

[TM13IceBeam]

Originally Posted by Fat Basileus

Oh god not this again, can we please move off of sylveon for even a second???

Only problem is, it's either talk about sylveon, speculation about new mechanics, speculation about sylveon's type, or a whole full-blown debate about light-types. Your pick.

I think its about time we get a dark-type gym leader, it's been 4 generations since it's introduced and not a single one yet (though a few E4 members)

[Aura Flare Riolu]

There won't be any new types. If they did introduce new types, the IV system would have to be reworked for Hidden Power to be able to use those types and that would mean that when we transfer a Pokemon, it's Hidden Power type and Power would most likely change.

That or we won't be able to transfer to Gen 6 at all...Yeah not happening.

[Flaming Piranha]

Originally Posted by Fat TM13IceBeam

I think its about time we get a dark-type gym leader, it's been 4 generations since it's introduced and not a single one yet (though a few E4 members)

Some more ghost ones too. iirc, Morty's the only ghost leader through all 5 generations.

[cantab]

Originally Posted by Fat Aura Flare Riolu

There won't be any new types. If they did introduce new types, the IV system would have to be reworked for Hidden Power to be able to use those types and that would mean that when we transfer a Pokemon, it's Hidden Power type and Power would most likely change.

GF could either not care about the Hidden Power change, perhaps handwaving it away as an effective of the transfer technology of the day, or they could just leave Hidden Power as it is and it simply can't be the new type.

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Fat Aura Flare Riolu

There won't be any new types. If they did introduce new types, the IV system would have to be reworked for Hidden Power to be able to use those types and that would mean that when we transfer a Pokemon, it's Hidden Power type and Power would most likely change.

That or we won't be able to transfer to Gen 6 at all...Yeah not happening.

posts like this are ridiculous. do you actually think that gamefreak would refuse to create a new type solely because of the effects of one move, especially one that generally has no relevance during a normal playthrough?

[CrazyCarl]

Originally Posted by Fat cantab

So replace an instant process with one requiring some sort of training mini-game or having to use a move while it's weak in order to make it strong a la the much-maligned Final Fantasy II.

Yes, something of the sort. And that was not the problem with FF2, at all. Sure, players abused it by attacking themselves, but that game had so many more important flaws.

The items exist, Wide and Zoom lenses. The moves exist, you've got never-miss attacks like Swift, Haze to reset all stats, and evasion-lowering moves like Defog, Gravity, and Sweet Scent. The boost limits exist, accuracy and evasion follow a different formula than the other stats that reduces the effect of any number of boosts.

But Sweet Scent and Swift suck, and the boost limit is not effective. Haven't given this a serious try IMO.

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Thanks for the replies. I still like my list :)