Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[Magistrum]

Originally Posted by Fat SmashBrosBrawl

The series was created with the multiplayer aspect in mind (this is a known fact said by the creator) and BW are the first games to take story serious so i dont know what are you talking about. You dont need criticals and they do not make anything interesting. They make you pull your hair off out of frustration ingame or not. So out with criticals this gen pls.

What the hell is this. Every good RPG out there has criticals as a necessary evil. Sure in your point of view you think criticals don't make it interesting, but I'm sure that without criticals, it does make the game a lot boring.

[Lord Jesseus]

Originally Posted by Fat Infernis

can't 2HKO that Vileplume? Wait for it to run out of Synthesis, Protect, Morning Sun, and Moonlight.

I lold

though it doesn't actually get morning sun

Not that it really matters surely no-one would ever run all three

i hope

[Lucario_Guy]

Originally Posted by Fat DarkEspeon

Please elaborate.

Some individuals have a difficult time getting over it when things don't go their way.

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Originally Posted by Fat Magistrum

What the hell is this. Every good RPG out there has criticals as a necessary evil. Sure in your point of view you think criticals don't make it interesting, but I'm sure that without criticals, it does make the game a lot boring.

If you can only have fun with criticals youre doing it wrong js.

[Dilasc]

It'd be nice if abilities like Hyper Cutter, Big Pecks and Keen Eye were not entirely overshadowed by White Smoke/Clear Body... talk about redundant abilities!

[Narutendo3]

The less random chance the better imo. Skill is just more fun to master than luck, since ya know, you can influence skill. Anyone who thinks crits and such are necessary to make pokemon what it is needs to pay more attention. You get screwed over by it far more often than it actually enhances the experience. Even when it helps you, you don't feel like you earned it. Would chess be more fun if there was a 10% chance to lose a random piece at the end of each turn?

Perhaps random chance would still be fine as a means to spice things up if it just didn't have too much influence on the outcome of a match. Like maybe a crit could be x1.3 instead of the absurd x2. Or maybe secondary effects could take an extra turn to actually happen (like yawn).

[Lucario_Guy]

Originally Posted by Fat SmashBrosBrawl

If you can only have fun without criticals youre doing it wrong js.

Fix'd.

Regardless, there are no signs that critical hits are going anywhere anytime soon. As EtherDrive pointed out, they're far too integrated into the game's other mechanics to be abolished. Not to mention they're traditional to the core of the RPG genre itself.

Originally Posted by Fat Narutendo3

The less random chance the better imo. Skill is just more fun to master than luck, since ya know, you can influence skill. Anyone who thinks crits and such are necessary to make pokemon what it is needs to pay more attention. You get screwed over by it far more often than it actually helps. And when it does help you, you don't feel like you earned it.

Surf VS Hydro Pump
Flamethrower VS Fire Blast
Rock Slide VS Stone Edge

It's called luck management. Granted, these examples pertain to accuracy, not critical hits - in which case, why not take a gander at the plethora of critical-influencing moves, items, and abilities?

Originally Posted by Fat Narutento3

Would chess be more fun if there was a 10% chance to lose a random piece at the end of each turn?

A. Criticals usually only occur 6.25% of the time in Pokémon, and that's assuming your attacks are actually hitting every turn. You're making an unfair exaggeration.

B. Chess does not and would not work with such a proposed additional rule, considering the game would be instantly over if a King were randomly lost. In Pokémon, the game isn't over 'til all six of the opponent's Pokémon are knocked out.

C. Pokémon isn't a game of chess. If you want to play chess, play chess, not Pokémon.

[Magistrum]

Originally Posted by Fat SmashBrosBrawl

If you can only have fun with criticals youre doing it wrong js.

Fun with criticals? I am actually indifferent about criticals, stating it was a necessary part of the game. Misunderstand much?

If you do nothing but whine about an occasional thing such as criticals, then you're the one who's doing it wrong. Either way we can agree to disagree over this but in the end of the day you won't get what you want. Criticals will stay. Deal with it.

[Narutendo3]

Originally Posted by Fat Lucario_Guy

Surf VS Hydro Pump
Flamethrower VS Fire Blast
Rock Slide VS Stone Edge

It's called luck management. Granted, these examples pertain to accuracy, not critical hits - in which case, why not take a gander at the plethora of critical-influencing moves, items, and abilities?


A. Criticals usually only occur 6.25% of the time in Pokémon, and that's assuming your attacks are actually hitting every turn. You're making an unfair exaggeration.

B. Chess does not and would not work with such a proposed additional rule, considering the game would be instantly over if a King were randomly lost. In Pokémon, the game isn't over 'til all six of the opponent's Pokémon are knocked out.

C. Pokémon isn't a game of chess. If you want to play chess, play chess, not Pokémon.

You can choose to use only accurate moves and have it still be worth it. You can't run all shell armor pokemon and have it be worth it.

Losing one of six pokemon (each naturally of varying value) is actually worse than losing one of 15 chess pieces of varying value. Obviously the king would be excluded in that comparison. Chess and Pokemon are two different games, but I'd like to believe players don't want to lose because of luck no matter what they're playing.

Originally Posted by Fat Magistrum

Fun with criticals? I am actually indifferent about criticals, stating it was a necessary part of the game. Misunderstand much?

If you do nothing but whine about an occasional thing such as criticals, then you're the one who's doing it wrong. Either way we can agree to disagree over this but in the end of the day you won't get what you want. Criticals will stay. Deal with it.

I know this isn't a response to me, but:
Stating crits are necessary is not indifferent. Nobody's whining, only suggesting what could make the game better. Crits will probably stay, but this is a speculation/idea thread. Cool your tits.

[Ryanide]

Here's an ability I'd like to see on Umbreon.

Confident - non-attacking moves have no effect when HP is full

Essentially it gets a magic guard when it's HP is full. Just strong enough to prevent it from being destroyed by taunt on the first turn, but with a clear weakness to sandstorm and hazards. Ensures you'll get off that mean look or yawn at least once.

I also dislike criticals. I think the system should be revised a little to something less luck-based, but that's not going to happen. We don't want a repeat of RBY's speed-based critting after all. Eyech.

[HabibsHotDogs]

My only opinion on criticals is that I want "high critical hit" moves to have an actual "high" critical hit rate.

I was thinking somewhere in the 15-35% range. AFAIK they are currently sitting at 12.5% crit

Focus energy would further improve the chance of these moves scoring crits! For balance purposes it'd probably be ideal if items that boost the chance of critting do not stack with high crit moves.. similar to how kings rock doesn't stack with iron head/serene grace.

[Ryanide]

I want more 'guaranteed' critical moves like Frost Breath and such (is that the name?).

Make Razor Wind, Hyper Beam, and other non-solarbeam two-turn moves guarantee a critical. Maybe people might actually start using them. Porygon Z becomes a disposable tactical nuke.

[Lord Jesseus]

Originally Posted by Fat Ryanide

Confident - non-attacking moves have no effect when HP is full

Essentially it gets a magic guard when it's HP is full. Just strong enough to prevent it from being destroyed by taunt on the first turn, but with a clear weakness to sandstorm and hazards. Ensures you'll get off that mean look or yawn at least once.

That isn't like maguc guard at all. 0_0

The closest existing equivelant is like... a temporary taunt on the oppoinent or a doubly effective wonder skin.

It would be a cool, and unique, ability to add though.

[Lucario_Guy]

Originally Posted by Fat Narutendo3

Chess and Pokemon are two different games, but I'd like to believe players don't want to lose because of luck no matter what they're playing.

First thing you've said in a while I actually agree with, I'll admit. As human beings, we like to be in control; and when we're not in control, we feel vulnerable. The way we react to this feeling of vulnerability is, in my opinion, what separates the fools from the wise. I mean, who would you respect more? The guy who complains and spews profanity upon experiencing loss, or the one who understands that it's just a game, sucks it up, and gives you a sincere "good game" anyway?

That's why I like critical hits; they draw out who we truly are. :)

/seriousprofundityisserious

[Magistrum]

Originally Posted by Fat Narutendo3

I know this isn't a response to me, but:
Stating crits are necessary is not indifferent. Nobody's whining, only suggesting what could make the game better. Crits will probably stay, but this is a speculation/idea thread. Cool your tits.

Nah, I get pissed off when i get critted, but I welcome it when I crit. Well, enough has been said.

On another note, part of me wishes that the sleep mechanics be changed. It was pretty overwhelming compared to freeze status which can be thawed by being attacked with fire or waiting it out for averagely 1-2 turns...Sleep, on the other hand...

[Magcargo 2]

I bet that magcargo will be availible because the region is based off of france. Obviously golurk and pikachu will be availible because of the advertisement.

[Narutendo3]

Originally Posted by Fat Lucario_Guy

First thing you've said in a while I actually agree with, I'll admit. As human beings, we like to be in control; and when we're not in control, we feel vulnerable. The way we react to this feeling of vulnerability is, in my opinion, what separates the fools from the wise. I mean, who would you respect more? The guy who complains and spews profanity upon experiencing loss, or the one who understands that it's just a game, sucks it up, and gives you a sincere "good game" anyway?

That's why I like critical hits; they draw out who we truly are. :)

/seriousprofundityisserious

Just because I say "good game" at the end of a luck-determined match, doesn't mean I enjoyed losing to a crit. Just saying. A deserved loss is still enjoyable, and a game should be as enjoyable as possible.

And it's not that you feel vulnerable, it's that you feel cheated out of your deserved victory.

[Dilasc]

Originally Posted by Fat Magcargo 2

I bet that magcargo will be availible because the region is based off of france. Obviously golurk and pikachu will be availible because of the advertisement.

Now I wonder... would it be based off of all of France, I wonder. After all, the fuirst 4 gen regions are based on Japanese regions, and well, Japan itself is smaller than France. Either Poke Earth has been lying to me or this is one huge region.

[TheKAM1993]

Originally Posted by Fat Magcargo 2

I bet that magcargo will be availible because the region is based off of france. Obviously golurk and pikachu will be availible because of the advertisement.

Don't jump to conclusions. Pikachu was everywhere around Unova and was uncatchable and Dragonite was shown in the B2W2 commercials and wasn't in the Unova Dex. Same for Scizor and Butterfree who advertised the Gender differences for DP.

[clapyourhands]

I personally think that a cool flavor (and possibly competitive) ability is one that effectively gives STAB to a type a Pokemon doesn't have.

ie: Crawler: Power of Bug-type moves x1.5 (Flygon, Drapion)
Winged: Power of Flying-type moves x1.5 (Beedrill, Mothim, etc.)
Drenched: Power of Water-type moves x1.5 (Stunfisk, Eelektross)
Dracoscale: Power of Dragon-type moves x1.5 (Charizard, Gyarados)
Amp: Power of sound-based moves x1.5
And, if you are in support of a certain addition to the metagame, Illuminate could be given an actual ingame effect by powering up a rather obvious type... (just saying)

Most of these Pokemon have better ability options, but in terms of flavor, it's a nice way of helping out Pokemon with two-type syndrome. (Because that's a thing now)

[Infernis]

Honestly, if my entire team strategy can be destroyed by a single crit, my team strategy had some more serious problems.

The Chess comparison is inaccurate. We're not losing random pieces. Sometimes our pawns get to attack in front of them instead of only diagonally. The bishops can sometimes move in straight lines. The queen can do whatever the fuck it wants for a turn. (Specs Kyogre Water Spout crit, perhaps.) That would completely fuck up the game that is Chess, since each piece only does one thing normally. It is a fairly discrete system.

Pokemon do many things. It's more analog, and each piece can do certain things pre-determined by the player. Sure, that physical wall Quagsire is going to mainly be walling common physical opponents. Perhaps it gets an Earthquake crit and takes out your Tentacruel when it normally wouldn't have. Or maybe the opponent's Heracross gets a crit on Megahorn and obliterates it. Your team can be built to adapt to such things. Quagsire should not be your only Pokemon that can take a hit.

[Narutendo3]

Originally Posted by Fat Infernis

Honestly, if my entire team strategy can be destroyed by a single crit, my team strategy had some more serious problems.

The Chess comparison is inaccurate. We're not losing random pieces. Sometimes our pawns get to attack in front of them instead of only diagonally. The bishops can sometimes move in straight lines. The queen can do whatever the fuck it wants for a turn. (Specs Kyogre Water Spout crit, perhaps.) That would completely fuck up the game that is Chess, since each piece only does one thing normally. It is a fairly discrete system.

Pokemon do many things. It's more analog, and each piece can do certain things pre-determined by the player. Sure, that physical wall Quagsire is going to mainly be walling common physical opponents. Perhaps it gets an Earthquake crit and takes out your Tentacruel when it normally wouldn't have. Or maybe the opponent's Heracross gets a crit on Megahorn and obliterates it. Your team can be built to adapt to such things. Quagsire should not be your only Pokemon that can take a hit.

A good strategy vs a good strategy can often result in a crit making the final decision. If you haven't seen that in action, you haven't played much pokemon. The chess comparison was just to say that luck would ruin it. It's not like I was saying they're similar games. o_O

[keleyeemoh]

The only good thing about no crits would be the elimination of fucking n00bs saying, "You only won because of hax!!!" Fuck that.

[Lord Jesseus]

Originally Posted by Fat keleyeemoh

The only good thing about no crits would be the elimination of fucking n00bs saying, "You only won because of hax!!!" Fuck that.

To be fair, only winning because of hax is a thing that happens.

I win like that fairly often lol

[Lucario_Guy]

Originally Posted by Fat Narutendo3

Just because I say "good game" at the end of a luck-determined match, doesn't mean I enjoyed losing to a crit. Just saying. A deserved loss is still enjoyable, and a game should be as enjoyable as possible.

You don't have to enjoy the fact that you lost to a crit. I don't enjoy such a thing, either. What matters is that you're mature enough to suck it up, even though it was a chance loss, sincerely thank the opponent for the match, and enjoy the fact that you had the opportunity to play Pokémon with someone, regardless of how the match turned out. That's what I'm getting at. :)

Originally Posted by Fat Narutendo3

And it's not that you feel vulnerable, it's that you feel cheated out of your deserved victory.

That's where humility comes into play. ;)



Anyway, this is getting off-topic. Any more-so and we'll be debating the core of the human condition before long. xD

Let's see, what's next on the agenda...

►Starter debate/evo speculation
►Xerneas/Yveltal lore
►Sylveon's typing drivel
►New evo/prevo wishlists
►Critical hits/butt hurt banter
►Something productive!

Well, we all know that's never gonna happen.

Got anything fresh to bring to the discussion, boys?