Pokémon X and Y Discussion

[Mario With Lasers]

Even Game Freak has its limits. A Dragon/Fighting pokémon may as well be unstoppable in-game. Either it would have ~500 BST, or Brick Break as its best Fighting STAB. Or worse.

[Dark Fallen Angel]

Originally Posted by Fat SmashBrosBrawl

Theres a reason no fighting type use earthquake and thats cause of redundant coverage. I dont think STAB in ground is enough to change that.

There are few reasons. You could use them thogeter because Jirachi is smacked by Earthquake, but not by Close Combat. The inverse happens with Ferrothorn. Fighting-type attacks are extremely useful for Ground-types to hit Air Balloon users. Earthquake also covers Poison-types that Close Combat fail to cover.

Outside of those situations, yeah. Unfortunately Fighting and Ground would be redundant offensively, like Dark and Ghost. Defensively, it has resistance or immunity to four useful utility moves: Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, U-Turn, and Pursuit. It is also extremely useful to be resistant to those types (1/4 rock, 0 Electric, 1/2 Dark and Bug), outside of those moves. However, this come with a weakness to Water, Ice, Grass, and Psychic-type moves. I hope that if they really do a Fighting/Ground-type Pokémon, they know what they are doing.

[CynicalGiant]

Ice/Fighting still scares the crap out of me.

Does anything besides Ghost/Steel actually stop both STAB moves from an Ice/Fighting type?

Would it be the ultimate counter to Dragon types of every type combination?

I feel like this would be the ultimate troll move by Game Freak, to make an Ice/Fighting type with Guts/Technician and give it both types of STAB priority (mach punch and ice shard)

[Dark Fallen Angel]

Originally Posted by Fat CynicalGiant

Ice/Fighting still scares the crap out of me.

Does anything besides Ghost/Steel actually stop both STAB moves from an Ice/Fighting type?

Would it be the ultimate counter to Dragon types of every type combination?

I feel like this would be the ultimate troll move by Game Freak, to make an Ice/Fighting type with Guts/Technician and give it both types of STAB priority (mach punch and ice shard)

Ice/Fighting is also stopped by Psychic/Fire (Victini), Bug/Fire (Volcarona), Water/Poison (Tentacruel), Water/Psychic (Slowbro), Water/Bug (Surskit). However, it's easy to pack a Rock-type attack to deal with the former two.

[typon77]

Originally Posted by Fat inanimate blob

Guy guys guys stop the presses.

Pokemon.com confirmed that the starters are all mono-type. So now we need to just speculate on the final forms.

That is all. :3

This is only partially correct. Pokemon.com confirmed that all of the starter's BASIC FORMS are monotype, so they could still evolve into something with a secondary type like Mudkip, Torchic, Turtwig, Piplup etc.

[Mario With Lasers]

Ice/Fighting is resisted by: Water/Poison, Water/Psychic, Water/Bug, Water/Ghost, Fire/Poison, Fire/Psychic, Fire/Bug, Fire/Ghost, Steel/Ghost, Ice/Ghost.

[frogoholic101]

Originally Posted by Fat Dark Fallen Angel

Ice/Fighting is also stopped by Psychic/Fire (Victini), Bug/Fire (Volcarona), Water/Poison (Tentacruel), Water/Psychic (Slowbro), Water/Bug (Surskit). However, it's easy to pack a Rock-type attack to deal with the former two.

You're missing Jellicent, easily one of the better pokemon with those resists.

[Jimera0]

Originally Posted by Fat CynicalGiant

I would imagine Dragon/Fighting would be a 600 BST 3 stage pokemon, like Garchomp.

Same goes for the potential Ice/Fighting.

I feel like if Game Freak introduces a new type, it would be the counter to Fighting and Ground types. These two in particular feel far too strong right now. A Saint/Spirit/Light type would be the most logical for resisting or being immune to Fighting besides Ghost. Might also be a good candidate for being super effective to Fighting. They could also just make an ability that makes you immune to fighting types.

Speaking of which, Fighting/Ground type would be incredibly terrifying. STAB EQ and CC. Oh lord.

Fighting is my favorite type, but I feel like it really does need to be toned down, countered and re-balanced for this new generation since I do sense a Gen split happening again (like the one in 3rd gen).

Originally Posted by Fat shockwave527

To me it just seems like levitate but with the abilities of ghosts. I think we should have more like this actually, maybe something that would allow for no effect from ghost-type moves as well.

A dragon immunity could be nice, but unlikely.

*Cough Cough*

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

Speaking of an ability that grants immunity to Fighting type moves... how about...

Insubstantial: Pokemon is immune to Fighting and Normal type moves.

This would allow for the creation of Pokemon that don't have a physical form without them all having to be ghost types. For example, imagine a Water/Fire Pokemon made of steam, or Pokemon made of pure electricity, fire, water, mist, air or dust. I think it's a really cool idea in that not only is it a useful competitive ability, it also opens up whole world of designs that before would not have really made sense flavor-wise, without having to make them all Ghost type. It'd also present a new breed of spinblockers that don't share typical ghost weaknesses, something Stall would greatly appreciate.

Seriously people that was on the page immediately before your posts there XD

[Quickster]

Originally Posted by Fat typon77

This is only partially correct. Pokemon.com confirmed that all of the starter's BASIC FORMS are monotype, so they could still evolve into something with a secondary type like Mudkip, Torchic, Turtwig, Piplup etc.

He implied that in the second part of his post:

So now we need to just speculate on the final forms.

[Basileus]

Originally Posted by Fat CynicalGiant

Ice/Fighting still scares the crap out of me.

Does anything besides Ghost/Steel actually stop both STAB moves from an Ice/Fighting type?

Would it be the ultimate counter to Dragon types of every type combination?

I feel like this would be the ultimate troll move by Game Freak, to make an Ice/Fighting type with Guts/Technician and give it both types of STAB priority (mach punch and ice shard)

It would be funny to see how many priority moves you could jam onto one pokemon, Just give a normal/fighting mach punch, quick attack, and then ice shard and bullet punch as egg moves and then slap on technician. XD

[ThePROlificHipster]

Ice/Fighting with Horn Leech to cure its worries.

[Basileus]

Originally Posted by Fat Quickster

He implied that in the second part of his post:

QUIZ!

What is the only region where all the starters have dual-type final stages?

answer------------------------------> Sinnoh!

[Infernis]

Rock/Poison would be an interesting type.

Offensively, 1/2 effective or 0x against steel, 1/2 against ground. Super effective against grass, bug, fire, flying, and rock.

Fully evolved Pokemon that resist the STAB combo, including Arceus forms: 43

...

---

Sandslash
Nidoqueen
Nidoking
Dugtrio
Golem
Marowak
Quagsire
Steelix
Donphan
Swampert
Mawile
Aggron
Flygon
Whiscash
Claydol
Metagross
Registeel
Groudon
Jirachi
Empoleon
Bastiodon
Gastrodon
Bronzong
Garchomp
Lucario
Hippowdown
Toxicroak
Magnezone
Rhyperior
Probopass
Dialga
Excadrill
Seismitoad
Krookodile
Ferrothorn
Klinklang
Sunfisk
Golurk
Bisharp
Cobalion
Terrakion
Steel Arceus
Ground Arceus

In contrast, it has an incredible number of super effective or neutral effective matchups. It is notable that many OU steel types have secondary typings that make this STAB combo more effective. Bug/Steel is hit by rock, Psychic/Steel is hit by bug.

Defensively, it sports resistances to Normal(1/2), Fire(1/2), Poison(1/4), Flying(1/2), and Bug(1/2). It is weak to Water(x2), Ground(x4), Psychic(x2), and Steel(x2). Not fantastic, but it has its niche. The fire and flying resistances are handy, though poison barely has any powerful direct attacks. Rock types tend to have more defense, so water and psychic would probably fuck with this guy. <s>Earthquake</s> Ground immunity could be obtained via levitate (unlikely) or an air balloon. Steel doesn't have many powerful physical attacks barring Meteor Miss, but that's what the defense is for.

[Blazen]

The Ice/Steel type probably wouldn't be too good against Dragons. However he could be a decent wall in lower tiers, or serve as a check to Sand teams.

Make the Dragon/Fighting the Pseudo of this gen. Give him Inner Focus, and Limber. Let him go wild. He should also be the 101 Speed Pokemon.

I was thinking that for a new ability an opposite Mold Breaker would be nice. This Pokemon ignores abilities when attacked. Means the Foe doesn't get Technician or Guts boosts.

[IcyMan28]

I'd rather have Dragon/Poison frilled lizard be the pseudo this gen. Fighting is prominent enough as is.

[Flaming Piranha]

Originally Posted by Fat IcyMan28

I'd rather have Dragon/Poison frilled lizard be the pseudo this gen. Fighting is prominent enough as is.

Agreed. Although frilled lizards are not poisonous, Poison type is criminally undeveloped, and needs a good physical attacker to abuse Poison's base 120 power stab in Gunk Shot. I can also imagine it having a strong Grass move (Power whip???) as Frilled lizards mostly live in trees.

[Stagnant]

Ghost + Steel Levitate/ Heatproof is always a possibility. So in that regard Dragon/Fighting is not that scary.

[Dark Fallen Angel]

Originally Posted by Fat Flaming Piranha

Agreed. Although frilled lizards are not poisonous, Poison type is criminally undeveloped, and needs a good physical attacker to abuse Poison's base 120 power stab in Gunk Shot. I can also imagine it having a strong Grass move (Power whip???) as Frilled lizards mostly live in trees.

Why abuse such underwhelming innacurate move? It doesn't even have the same coverage of Focus Blast, to compensate that it is innacurate. A Poison-type physical sweeper could exist. Toxicroak is the closest thing, but it only works on rain teams, but even him doesn't use Poison-type attacks.

[Jimera0]

Ok, just for shits and giggles, they should make a Rock/Ice type and make it defensive. Thematically it makes sense. Competitively though it's weak to 5 types, doubly weak to two of them and resists 4. What really makes it though is WHAT those weaknesses and resistances are to.

Weak to: Fighting (4x), Rock, Steel (4x lol), Water, Grass (AKA some of the most common STAB type attacks in OU)
Resists: Ice, Normal Flying and Poison (AKA the least common STAB types in OU)

Tell me Trollfreak wouldn't do it.

[Flaming Piranha]

Originally Posted by Fat Dark Fallen Angel

Why abuse such underwhelming innacurate move? It doesn't even have the same coverage of Focus Blast, to compensate that it is innacurate. A Poison-type physical sweeper could exist. Toxicroak is the closest thing, but it only works on rain teams, but even him doesn't use Poison-type attacks.

Looking back, I did phrase it stupidly, as no Pokémon could abuse such an inaccurate move, but I'm not creating an official moveset for it; just theorizing on what moves it could learn.

[CynicalGiant]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

Ok, just for shits and giggles, they should make a Rock/Ice type and make it defensive. Thematically it makes sense. Competitively though it's weak to 5 types, doubly weak to two of them and resists 4. What really makes it though is WHAT those weaknesses and resistances are to.

Weak to: Fighting (4x), Rock, Steel (4x lol), Water, Grass (AKA some of the most common STAB type attacks in OU)
Resists: Ice, Normal Flying and Poison (AKA the least common STAB types in OU)

Tell me Trollfreak wouldn't do it.

If they use my idea of making Hail give a Def boost to Ice pokemon, just like Sandstorm gives a SpDef boost to Rock types it could be a pretty useful weather wall. You could also give it that ability Rhyperior has, the one that reduces damage taken from supereffective moves.

[Matezoide]

Originally Posted by Fat Jimera0

Ok, just for shits and giggles, they should make a Rock/Ice type and make it defensive. Thematically it makes sense. Competitively though it's weak to 5 types, doubly weak to two of them and resists 4. What really makes it though is WHAT those weaknesses and resistances are to.

Weak to: Fighting (4x), Rock, Steel (4x lol), Water, Grass (AKA some of the most common STAB type attacks in OU)
Resists: Ice, Normal Flying and Poison (AKA the least common STAB types in OU)

Tell me Trollfreak wouldn't do it.

It would be like Magcargo all over again!

You forgot Ground on the Weakness list though.

[Organization Member XIV]

Originally Posted by Fat Blazen

The Ice/Steel type probably wouldn't be too good against Dragons. However he could be a decent wall in lower tiers, or serve as a check to Sand teams.

Make the Dragon/Fighting the Pseudo of this gen. Give him Inner Focus, and Limber. Let him go wild. He should also be the 101 Speed Pokemon.

I was thinking that for a new ability an opposite Mold Breaker would be nice. This Pokemon ignores abilities when attacked. Means the Foe doesn't get Technician or Guts boosts.

The last part is actually a really cool idea.

[M. Rock]

So did anyone catch that the starters are going to be pure Grass, Fire, and Water? It's confirmed on the home page of Serebii, so now all the controversy can be put to rest.

EDIT: Okay I didn't realize that they might have a type change upon evolving. Disregard the latter half of the above statement.

[Skore]

Originally Posted by Fat CynicalGiant

If they use my idea of making Hail give a Def boost to Ice pokemon, just like Sandstorm gives a SpDef boost to Rock types it could be a pretty useful weather wall. You could also give it that ability Rhyperior has, the one that reduces damage taken from supereffective moves.

It could also be a pseudo-Blissey in a Sandstorm but with better STAB.