The Defense of the Titans Project - Mark II

alexwolf · Dec 4th, 2012, 6:59:14 AM

approved by Haunter, Matthew, Harsha & Pocket

The Defense of the Titans Project
(The structure and template is mostly taken from the DH project, so credit to Birkal)

Hello everyone, and once again welcome to the Defense of the Titans Project. Me and Pocket are in charge of it, and it will be referred to as the DT Project from now on for everyone's convenience. The DT Project has two main goals:

1. Exploring the potential of stall teams in today’s metagame

With the advent of BW2, many powerful and centralizing Pokemon were introduced in OU, such as Thundurus-T, Genesect, Keldeo, and Tornadus-T. Most of those Pokemon have incredible offensive stats, as well as the moves, speed, bulk, and abilities to abuse them. This led to a decrease of both the popularity and the viability of stall in OU. Stall is more difficult to build than ever, as well as use, preventing most players from fully exploring the potential of such teams, and seeking success with more user friendly and easy to build type of teams, such as Rain Offense or Weatherless Heavy Offense. The fact that stall, as a playstyle, is labeled as ''boring'' and ''unattractive'' by many players doesn't help stall's popularity at all. So here comes the first goal of this project, to encourage the usage of stall, allowing us to reach to a better and more well thought decision about the viability of stall, and furthermore a better view of the metagame as a whole.

2. Increasing diversity

I don't know if this goal is a byproduct of the first one, but regardless I feel the need to address it. To the eyes of many players, the OU metagame is stale, boring and very centralized around a few threats, even more than usually. One of the main reasons of this belief is the lack of popular and effective playstyles in the OU ladder. Except from half a dozen of team archetypes, at most, namely Rain Offense, Weatherless Heavy Offense, Bulky Offense, Sun Offense, and DragMag offense, every other playstyle is left in obscurity, especially more defensive based steam such as semi-stall and stall teams. And because only a few types of teams are being used, certain Pokemon that flourish in more defensive teams see very little usage, many of them which have a lot of underused potential. So the second goal of this project is to increase the diversity of OU, by encouraging the use of more defensive Pokemon. If those Pokemon are better and more viable than we think will be decided to a degree by you, the participants of this project.

Rules:

This project, simply put, aims at recognizing users who put forth the effort to create a competitively successful stall team. Anyone with a Smogon account has a chance of reaching the Hall of Fame within this project. Here are the rules by which this project is run:

Each team must have at least five Pokemon that will invest a minimum of 460 EVs in any of their HP / Def / SpD / Spe stats, as well as a nature that doesn’t increase any offensive stat (Atk and SpA). This means that you are only allowed to use one offensive Pokemon maximum in your team.
Moves that boost offensive stats are banned (Dragon Dance, Calm Mind, etc). The only exception is the offensive Pokemon you are allowed to use. You can still run a defensive Pokemon with Calm Mind, Dragon Dance or other such moves, but it will be counted as your offensive Pokemon.
***NEW RULE*** If someone wants to use a team that doesn't fit the rules but is very close in doing so, then he can PM this team to me, so i can send it to a team of people that will review it and decide if it should be accepted or not. The team of those people will be announced to you in the following days.
You MUST use a new Pokemon Showdown! Username in order to restart your ladder ranking. Furthermore, the DT team that you are working with can be changed at will, as long as it meets the requirements.
Do not start laddering for this project until you have registered within this topic.
Please follow the rules. The DT Project isn't about being dishonest; it's about developing great stall teams! As a result, cheaters will most likely end up being banned from the Hall of Fame.
It is recommended that you post consistent ladder updates within your registration form. This will allow other users to see your progress and offer meaningful advice!

Registration:

You are eligible to register for the DT Project at any time of the month! The third post in this topic contains an index for easy access to all participants, so don't worry about your Registration Form getting lost in the sea of discussion. Get started by filling out the below form:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Registration Form
Pokemon Showdown! Username:
Hall of Fame Standing:
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!:

Remember, your "Pokemon Showdown! Username" should be new so that your DT team will be starting from scratch. Your "Hall of Fame Standing" should be empty for right now. But once you're admitted into the Hall of Fame, feel free to update this part with links to your accomplishment!

Once you've registered, you're all set to go! You can start teambuilding and laddering whenever you like. Feel free to update your registration posts whenever you like, whether it be with ladder ranking updates, your teammate selections, battle logs, sprites, or whatever you wish to do!

Discussion:

This topic also serves a second purpose to initiate discussion on battlers' teambuilding and laddering progress; in this thread, you share your struggles and success, and reflect upon your DT teams role and effectiveness in the current OU metagame. This thread is not only a place to show off successful challenges, but also a place to help each other achieve their goals via posting your problems and receiving quality input from others. Challengers should not hesitate to post their teams and/or team ideas to receive help from the community. You are allowed to post your thoughts and opinions. However, here is a "Do and Do Not" list that posters in this topic must adhere to:

Do post and share sets for your DT team.
Do provide explantion about the synergy between the Pokemon in your DT team.
Do pinpoint which threats in the metagame need to be covered.
Do ask questions about the current OU metagame and teambuilding.
Do give meaningful answers to asked questions. This can include suggested sets, teammates, and strategies.

Do not post insignificant updates. Each post should be well thought and unique.
Do not ask someone to make the team for you. Team building is YOUR job (and a fun one at that).

Hall of Fame:

Now comes the competitive aspect of this project. Once you've reached a ranking within the Top 100 on Smogon's competitive OU ladder (with a minimum Glicko2 rating of 1950) with your DT team, you are eligible to enter the Hall of Fame! The Hall of Fame is located within the post below the OP and recognizes each user that has entered its halls. Once you've reached the Top 100, please fill out the following Hall of Fame Registration Form:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Hall of Fame Registration Form
Pokemon Showdown! Username:
DT team:
Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking:
DT team Complete Sets:

As with the regular Registration Form, you are encouraged to upload battle logs, teammates, and other relevant information. Since you're entering the Hall of Fame with a successful team, many users would love to hear some wisdom on how you accomplished that goal. So feel free to post a summary of your team (similar to a RMT), battle logs, and general thoughts. Once you've filled out this form, you'll be accepted into the Hall of Fame, which will link to your Hall of Fame Registration Form and other relevant links.

Finally there will be different levels on the Hall of Fame, depending on how successful you were with the team. The biggest your ranking, the higher you will rise to the list. So now that you know the rules, get registered and start team building! If you have any questions, send me a VM/PM. Best of luck!

alexwolf · Dec 4th, 2012, 6:59:44 AM

Discussion and Learning

This post will be dedicated to discussion about stall, which is one of the most important aspects of this project. In this section there will be saved any helpful independent posts that explain integral elements of stall's function and success in the modern metagame. Also everyone that qualifies for the Hall of Fame will be called to answer the questions below, and everyone is free to discuss them, add its own input, and raise new questions. These answers will be saved in the HoF section for anyone to see. Any post that will help the people understand how stall is built and how it works, is a welcome addition to this project, and good posts will be saved in this section, as already mentioned. So except from keeping a record of the best stall teams of the participants, we will also be keeping a record of the best posts in this thread, allowing new players to quickly get a taste of what stall is by reading these well written posts. Without further ado, here are the questions that every HoFer is expected to answer:

Quote:

- What are the roles of Pokemon that were essential to your stall team's success? Rapid Spinner, Physical Wall, Hazard Setter, etc.

- What was the most useful Pokemon in your team and why? You can also talk about defensive cores here.

- What were the biggest threats to your stall team, and how you dealt with them?

- Did you find it easy or difficult to build a successful stall team? Explain why.

- How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a stall team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with stall teams?

Feel free to answer any of these questions. It can be anything from a few sentences to an essay. Sharing your learning and thoughts is an incredibly important part of this project. So get writing and keep on laddering. Keep it up!

Helpful Posts Archive:

December's Archive

November's Archive

**Pocket** · Dec 4th, 2012, 7:00:27 AM

Quote:

To spice things up, here are the conditions to earn Grandmaster:

1) Top #3, 2300 min glicko2 rating
2) only 1 Grandmaster per DT
3) The original Grandmaster can be knocked out by someone with a higher glicko2 rating.

I encourage people who are in Platinum or even Gold to vye for the sacred spot!

Current Hall of Fame (3):

Be one of the few to conquer the Ladder with your Stall Team, and you will be forever recorded in our Hall of Fame! Remember, admission now requires you to obtain the Top 100 on Showdown's ladder with minimum glicko2 rating of 1950. Who will become this month's Grand Master?!

Gold Class: 2199-2100 & top 25 (1)
- DarkBlazeR -

Rain Stall
"(...) Skarmory is definitely the team's MVP. Being able to take almost all unboosted Physical hits like a champ, set up Spikes reliably and shuffle the enemy team around are three factors I couldn't really cope without. Taunt is the highlight of the set though: stopping anything slower from setting up, giving Skarmory relative impunity."
Peaked at: 2131 (#9) on 12/4/2012

Full Team

Silver Class: 2099-2050 & top 50 (1)
- kalamadude -

Rain Stall
"(SubCM Latias) is the most dangerous special sweeper in the game and is unparalleled as a last Poke standing sweeper. Many teams, offensive and stall simply have no contingency plan for Latias."
Peaked at: 2078 (#49) on 12/19/2012

Full Team

Bronze Class: 2049 -1950 & top 100 (1)
- jaredz99 -

Hail Stall
"The primary goal of this team was to whittle down opposing pokemon with residual damage from hail and spreading toxic. The primary means of achieving this was with a Stallrein "sweep", although that was certainly not necessary."
Peaked at: 1965 (#83) on 12/8/2012

Full Team

Hall of Fame Archive (10): (click on the poke icon for more info!)

HoF Archive (fully updated XD)

alexwolf · Dec 4th, 2012, 7:01:22 AM

Registered Participants
(credit to alkinesthetase for the format)

PLEASE KEEP YOUR REGISTRATION UP TO DATE. When you achieve HoF status with a Stall Team, always update the original post! That way, when we need to update our lists, we can just skip through the registration list. You can make a new post as well to let us know, but always make sure the updates for ladder ranking, alt name, etc are in the original post. We cannot guarantee that we will notice ANY data outside of them. Alkinesthetase spent over two hours updating DH's list last month; doing this saves us a lot of time.

Be tenacious and ladder to the top!

If you've already reached the Hall of Fame this month, you can continue to participate in the project by improving your Hall of Fame record even further.

~~~

Last Update: Jan 3th 3:48:32 AM[Eastern European Time GMT +2 forum time]

Current Participants: 21 (Newest: Meru)

Princess Bri - stallish homegirl
DarkBlazeR - Dironx - 2131 (#9) on 12/5/2012
Ryuuki - Ryuuki
Manitary - Threepwood
jaredz99 - KansasCityChief - HailFighting - 1965 (#83) on 12/8/2012
KRageToo - WallRage
WashedLaundry - WashedLaundry
lokt - sandstall
superstar - Childish G
SoulMuse - SwordsDancer
S0L1D G0LD - S0L1D G0LDdt
Brave Bird spam - TheTrollMaster
Milos - 1999
Melee Mewtwo - Smash4 Mewtwo
YoYoNerd - YoYoNerdess
czechm8 - ChipAway
Bedlington - Bedlington - Pallas
Scarfwynaut - Soviet Bubblegum
kalamadude - Kalamadude_1 - 2078 (#49) on 12/19/2012
Leftiez - Leftoverz/Leftovers
Meru - Eighty

Princess Bri · Dec 4th, 2012, 7:05:19 AM

User name: Princess Bri
Alt: stallish homegirl
Ranking: n/a

I'll use sand this time!

DarkBlazeR · Dec 4th, 2012, 7:33:57 AM

Username: DarkBlazeR
PS! Alt: Dironx
Ranking: N/A

StairFall · Dec 4th, 2012, 8:26:19 AM

I'll register soon, looking forward to actually competing this time but I have a question first. Would max hp/ max speed cosmic+stored power sigilyph count as an offensive pokemon? Technically cosmic power boosts the strength of stored power but it doesn't boost my offensive stats directly. So does that make it an attacking pokemon?

Ryuuki · Dec 4th, 2012, 9:41:27 AM

Username: Ryuuki
Ranking: 1297

since this project is running agein, is it okej to run CM or Qurse as long as there's no move that can benifit from the sp.atk/atk boost and count it as a deffencive pokemon? ex Quagisre with Qurse, scald, slack off and toxic.

alexwolf · Dec 4th, 2012, 10:08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat StairFall

I'll register soon, looking forward to actually competing this time but I have a question first. Would max hp/ max speed cosmic+stored power sigilyph count as an offensive pokemon? Technically cosmic power boosts the strength of stored power but it doesn't boost my offensive stats directly. So does that make it an attacking pokemon?

Cosmic Power, Amnesia, Stockpile, and any move that doesn't boost Attack or Special Attack is allowed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Ryuuki

Username: Ryuuki
Ranking: 1297

since this project is running agein, is it okej to run CM or Qurse as long as there's no move that can benifit from the sp.atk/atk boost and count it as a deffencive pokemon? ex Quagisre with Qurse, scald, slack off and toxic.

If you want to use it as your offensive Pokemon then ok. If you already have an offensive Pokemon and want to use Curse Quagsire then you must PM me your team and i will tell you if your team can particiapate, as the 3rd rule says.

----------------------

Important Announcement

Anyone that wants to use a team that breaks the current rules but is very close to falling under them should PM its team to me, as the 3rd rule in the OP states. Don't ask here if you can use anything that breaks the rules.

Manitary · Dec 4th, 2012, 11:07:24 AM

Username: Manitary
PS! Alt: Threepwood
Ranking: ACRE 1926 -- Glicko2 2082+-111 (provisional) -- W13 L3

DarkBlazeR · Dec 4th, 2012, 11:45:35 AM

Made it after four hours of solid laddering, 25-3. I was doing two to three battles at a time to speed things up, given how slow climbing the ladder can be when running a stall team. I used a variant of a previous stall team I had great success with in BW1.

PS! Alt: Dironx
DT Full Team: http://pastebin.com/Pr1qdKZM
Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking:

...

What are the roles of Pokemon that were essential to your stall team's success?

Bar none, being able to get hazards up was the most important part of my stall strategy. Given the aggressive, fast paced nature of BW2, sometimes I had to make sure I got some hazards up ASAP, so to neuter the impact of the metagame's top threats. I didn't want my team members to be easy set up fodder, so I made sure each one could hold their own somewhat offensively. Having all three types of entry hazard was vital, depending on the individual game situation. People may bash Toxic Spikes for example, but there were games when they gave me a massive advantage, especially vs. rival stall teams. SubRoost Zapdos, whom this team was built around, greatly benefits from the passive damage they dole out each turn, allowing it to fulfil its role much more effectively. Having a good spinner is also essential: stalling becomes ever so more difficult with hazards on your side since you're constantly switching around. Tentacruel is the ideal defensive spinner as it isn't worn down so easily thanks to additional Rain Dish recovery + Protect. I ran rain stall as opposed to sand or hail stall as I've found that sand/hail can tend to work against you more than it benefits your team's cause, as getting the 6.25% Leftovers healing each turn can be game changing over time - losing that is far from ideal. Though a spin-blocker is the norm for a good stall team, in my case I simply didn't see the worth: the only good spin-blocker in my opinion is Jellicent, which didn't fit on the team due to it exacerbating my team's Electric weakness. Having a cleric in Celebi was more important - keeping the team healthy from unwanted status conditions (though 8 PP really sucks in extended matches).

What was the most useful Pokemon in your team and why?

Though Zapdos is the team's centre-point and undoubtly the coolest member, I'd have to say that Skarmory is definitely the team's MVP. Being able to take almost all unboosted Physical hits like a champ, set up Spikes reliably and shuffle the enemy team around are three factors I couldn't really cope without. Taunt is the highlight of the set though: stopping anything slower from setting up, giving Skarmory relative impunity. I didn't miss Brave Bird too much as with hazards up, Whirlwind was often dealing more consistent damage than Brave Bird anyway (and besides, I find recoil moves to be a bit of an oxymoron on a defensive 'mon).

What were the biggest threats to your stall team, and how you dealt with them?

My team's defensive core was incredibly solid, so there were very few true threats to my team. Perhaps the biggest single issue was Terrakion, since I lacked a very physically bulky Fighting resist to take it on reliably. It could most certainly be played around though: it is worn down very easily with Spikes + Toxic Spikes, neither can it really set up on anything, and the choice sets can be outpredicted. Though an untimely crit would be devastating, the vast majority of the time I was able to outplay my opponent enough to emerge victorious no matter what they brought to the table. Baton Pass teams as a whole were the biggest nuisance overall - a well played one would almost certainly beat my team. The best shot I had was to get Toxic Spikes up ASAP and try and kill Mr. Mime so I could Perish Song the chain with Politoed, though this isn't always guaranteed to work.

Did you find it easy or difficult to build a successful stall team?

Definitely not easy. It's all about covering what's relevant with only six slots, whilst also having a good strategy rather than just sitting around and taking hits. You have to make compromises, so be prepared. No matter how good of a team builder you are, your team will always have at least one significant weakness. However, being able to come up with a solid team that has at least has a chance against any playstyle common in the metagame is more important than trying to cover everything. Don't be afraid to experiment - strive for excellence, not perfection.

How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a stall team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with stall teams?

Despite my relatively swift ladder run, this was far from an easy challenge. As I mentioned before, critical hits really suck, and were almost soley responsible for two of my three losses. I'd say using stall teams can definitely be beneficial when you aren't cursed by the hax gods, but do require much more patience and nerve than offensive teams. Never give up though! As frustrating as stalling can sometimes be, often your worst enemy is yourself. Keep at it, and make changes to your team if necessary. If you're willing to stay focused for longer matches (and perhaps even play multiple games at once as I did), you should find yourself climbing up the leaderboard.

Overall.. definitely fun but occasionally rage-inducing. I'm probably going to try the challenge again with something a bit different... ;)

jaredz99 · Dec 4th, 2012, 1:04:39 PM

Alright, I'm signing up with a team of MixBelt Abomasnow/Stallrein/Forretress/Gliscor/Sp.Def Jirachi/Blissey. I think that Gliscor technically doesn't meet the 460 EVs requirement but it's the standard defensive set, I'll PM you.

Username: jaredz99
PS Alt: KansasCityChief
Ranking: Not yet.

**Pocket** · Dec 4th, 2012, 4:44:42 PM

Whoa, DarkBlazeR - that was incredible speed in which you completed this challenge (and with Gold to boot!) Man, you're awesome!

Cool team, too - Taunt Skarmory and SubRoost Zapdos is definitely a cool perk of your team. I must say, though, your team looks terribly weak to NP Thundurus. I'd replace Jirachi's Thunder for Body Slam to help with this. DragMag teams are also a bitch - Ice Beam on Politoed helps, as well as giving Jirachi U-turn > Stealth Rock. You can add Stealth Rock on Celebi instead, maybe over Leech Seed.

But most of all, congrats!!

DarkBlazeR · Dec 4th, 2012, 5:04:45 PM

Yeah you pretty much hit the nail on the head, NP Thundurus-T is a big problem for this team, fortunately I never ran into it whilst playing in this ladder run (only Scarf sets) which is why I forgot to mention it lol. Thanks for the feedback, I will definitely take it into consideration as I am still planning on using this team and perfecting it. I'm a bit attached to Leech Seed on Celebi I must admit, but yeah I don't mind making sacrifices, as I've mentioned in my post. Body Slam on Jirachi does sound good though, however I do like being able to nail Tentacruel/Jellicent for a strong hit, and the ability to beat SubDisable Gengar, whom is also a significant threat otherwise.

One change I have considered myself is HP [Ice] > Roar on Zapdos. Having a secondary phazer is always nice, and I imagine it would make Zapdos even more of a troublemaker in the late game when hazards are down. Coverage against Venusaur/Garchomp/Thundurus-T would be sorely missed though.

KRageToo · Dec 4th, 2012, 10:58:05 PM

I guess I'll give it a try this month.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: WallRage
Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A

WashedLaundry · Dec 5th, 2012, 12:01:45 AM

Just starting on Christmas break soon so I'll sign up.

Pokemon Showdown! Username: WashedLaundry
Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A

lokt · Dec 5th, 2012, 12:52:48 AM

Pokemon Showdown! Username: sandstall
Hall of Fame Standing: N/A
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A

superstar · Dec 5th, 2012, 1:10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Ryuuki

since this project is running agein, is it okej to run CM or Qurse as long as there's no move that can benifit from the sp.atk/atk boost and count it as a deffencive pokemon? ex Quagisre with Qurse, scald, slack off and toxic.

On that set, Stockpile is much better than Curse because it boosts both defenses.

Pokemon Showdown username: Childish G
Current Hall of Fame Standing: None
Current Ladder Standing: None

Ryuuki · Dec 5th, 2012, 4:24:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat superstar

On that set, Stockpile is much better than Curse because it boosts both defenses.

Yea I realised that after I've looked up all of it moves, but I just used it as an example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alexwolf

If you want to use it as your offensive Pokemon then ok. If you already have an offensive Pokemon and want to use Curse Quagsire then you must PM me your team and i will tell you if your team can particiapate, as the 3rd rule says.

I'll do that as I might run into that problem but we will see =)
Also may I do some changes to my team or must I register it as a new account? I don't want to break any rules =)

jaredz99 · Dec 5th, 2012, 10:35:29 PM

Starting with a new alt b/c substantial team changes and several losing streaks. I stalled out at about 1840 on the last one, just under the top 100 reqs :P

EDITED because the alt I had chosen was already taken :\

REAL new alt: HailFighting

tw1g007 · Dec 6th, 2012, 1:36:20 PM

Darkblazer your team while pretty cool and covering many basis is still prone to mixed set Hydreigons especially since most of them now carry earthquake. Kyurem-B while not really popular could severely damage your team also. If Jirachi switches in it and takes the physical thunder attack, it won't be able to heal in time since it lacks protect [basically cube hits you hard 3 or so times to your death or pray to the hax gods the paralysis thunder sets in and gives you a chance]. Once Jirachi is dealt with, no one else in your team stands much of a chance against its ridiculous Outrage (on a weakened team) or its other super effective attacks. Also you are slightly weak to a Rotom-W + Pursuit Tyranitar pairing. If you switch in and check the volt switch with Celebi then you put yourself in a 50/50 position if the TTar carries say [Fire Blast or most likely Crunch] and Pursuit.

Now I guess shed shell would also be an option but is better suited in a tournament since Magnezone essentially beats Skarmory for free with Thunderbolt and slowly chips away at Jirachi. Basically, if such scenerios happen with a typical dragmag team then its gg for your opponent. Gothielle also wrecks major players in your team like Skarmory and Tentacruel especially. Dugtrio is manageable with a little bit of prediction and strong emphasis on breaking its sash asap.

I am still not even sure about Zapdos' placement on the team to be honest. I guess its a reliable check for thunder attacks but seeing how popular Rotom-W is, chances for Hydro Pump on a switch in is pretty likely. Zapdos is the only possible replacement I can see to cover major flaws while trying to perfect your team but since you stated it plays a central role then I don't know who else you could switch around at this point.

I guess thats the annoying thing about stall. You really can't cover everything.

SoulMuse · Dec 6th, 2012, 5:09:02 PM

Username: SoulMuse
PS! Alt: SwordsDancer
Ranking: None yet....

Might as well use this as an excuse to actually try stal...and make an account here.

S0L1D G0LD · Dec 6th, 2012, 8:05:27 PM

i'll sign up.

Username: S0L1D G0LD
PS! Alt: S0L1D G0LDdt
Ranking: N/A

Brave Bird spam · Dec 6th, 2012, 8:12:28 PM

Created a smogon account to participate in this project :]
PS! Alt: TheTrollMaster
Hall of Fame Standing: None as of now
PS! Ladder Ranking: 1000(I think that's where the alt starts at)

Milos · Dec 6th, 2012, 8:36:58 PM

Pokemon Showdown! Username: 1999
Hall of Fame Standing: n/a
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none as of yet

Dec 4th, 2012, 7:05:19 AM	#5
Princess Bri COME FORTH Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,070	User name: Princess Bri Alt: stallish homegirl Ranking: n/a I'll use sand this time! __________________

Dec 4th, 2012, 8:26:19 AM	#7
StairFall Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 147	I'll register soon, looking forward to actually competing this time but I have a question first. Would max hp/ max speed cosmic+stored power sigilyph count as an offensive pokemon? Technically cosmic power boosts the strength of stored power but it doesn't boost my offensive stats directly. So does that make it an attacking pokemon? __________________ I warned you about stairs bro! I told you dawg!

Dec 4th, 2012, 11:07:24 AM	#10
Manitary Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 153 Italy	Username: Manitary PS! Alt: Threepwood Ranking: ACRE 1926 -- Glicko2 2082+-111 (provisional) -- W13 L3 Last edited by Manitary; Dec 4th, 2012 at 7:06:17 PM.

Dec 4th, 2012, 11:45:35 AM	#11
DarkBlazeR Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 353	Made it after four hours of solid laddering, 25-3. I was doing two to three battles at a time to speed things up, given how slow climbing the ladder can be when running a stall team. I used a variant of a previous stall team I had great success with in BW1. PS! Alt: Dironx DT Full Team: http://pastebin.com/Pr1qdKZM Screenshot of Top 100 Ladder Ranking: ... What are the roles of Pokemon that were essential to your stall team's success? Bar none, being able to get hazards up was the most important part of my stall strategy. Given the aggressive, fast paced nature of BW2, sometimes I had to make sure I got some hazards up ASAP, so to neuter the impact of the metagame's top threats. I didn't want my team members to be easy set up fodder, so I made sure each one could hold their own somewhat offensively. Having all three types of entry hazard was vital, depending on the individual game situation. People may bash Toxic Spikes for example, but there were games when they gave me a massive advantage, especially vs. rival stall teams. SubRoost Zapdos, whom this team was built around, greatly benefits from the passive damage they dole out each turn, allowing it to fulfil its role much more effectively. Having a good spinner is also essential: stalling becomes ever so more difficult with hazards on your side since you're constantly switching around. Tentacruel is the ideal defensive spinner as it isn't worn down so easily thanks to additional Rain Dish recovery + Protect. I ran rain stall as opposed to sand or hail stall as I've found that sand/hail can tend to work against you more than it benefits your team's cause, as getting the 6.25% Leftovers healing each turn can be game changing over time - losing that is far from ideal. Though a spin-blocker is the norm for a good stall team, in my case I simply didn't see the worth: the only good spin-blocker in my opinion is Jellicent, which didn't fit on the team due to it exacerbating my team's Electric weakness. Having a cleric in Celebi was more important - keeping the team healthy from unwanted status conditions (though 8 PP really sucks in extended matches). What was the most useful Pokemon in your team and why? Though Zapdos is the team's centre-point and undoubtly the coolest member, I'd have to say that Skarmory is definitely the team's MVP. Being able to take almost all unboosted Physical hits like a champ, set up Spikes reliably and shuffle the enemy team around are three factors I couldn't really cope without. Taunt is the highlight of the set though: stopping anything slower from setting up, giving Skarmory relative impunity. I didn't miss Brave Bird too much as with hazards up, Whirlwind was often dealing more consistent damage than Brave Bird anyway (and besides, I find recoil moves to be a bit of an oxymoron on a defensive 'mon). What were the biggest threats to your stall team, and how you dealt with them? My team's defensive core was incredibly solid, so there were very few true threats to my team. Perhaps the biggest single issue was Terrakion, since I lacked a very physically bulky Fighting resist to take it on reliably. It could most certainly be played around though: it is worn down very easily with Spikes + Toxic Spikes, neither can it really set up on anything, and the choice sets can be outpredicted. Though an untimely crit would be devastating, the vast majority of the time I was able to outplay my opponent enough to emerge victorious no matter what they brought to the table. Baton Pass teams as a whole were the biggest nuisance overall - a well played one would almost certainly beat my team. The best shot I had was to get Toxic Spikes up ASAP and try and kill Mr. Mime so I could Perish Song the chain with Politoed, though this isn't always guaranteed to work. Did you find it easy or difficult to build a successful stall team? Definitely not easy. It's all about covering what's relevant with only six slots, whilst also having a good strategy rather than just sitting around and taking hits. You have to make compromises, so be prepared. No matter how good of a team builder you are, your team will always have at least one significant weakness. However, being able to come up with a solid team that has at least has a chance against any playstyle common in the metagame is more important than trying to cover everything. Don't be afraid to experiment - strive for excellence, not perfection. How did you reach the Hall of Fame? Was it easy or difficult? Did having a stall team benefit you? What advice would you give to those laddering with stall teams? Despite my relatively swift ladder run, this was far from an easy challenge. As I mentioned before, critical hits really suck, and were almost soley responsible for two of my three losses. I'd say using stall teams can definitely be beneficial when you aren't cursed by the hax gods, but do require much more patience and nerve than offensive teams. Never give up though! As frustrating as stalling can sometimes be, often your worst enemy is yourself. Keep at it, and make changes to your team if necessary. If you're willing to stay focused for longer matches (and perhaps even play multiple games at once as I did), you should find yourself climbing up the leaderboard. Overall.. definitely fun but occasionally rage-inducing. I'm probably going to try the challenge again with something a bit different... ;) Last edited by DarkBlazeR; Dec 4th, 2012 at 2:27:20 PM. Reason: fixed image link

Dec 4th, 2012, 4:44:42 PM	#13
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,177 Bergenfield	Whoa, DarkBlazeR - that was incredible speed in which you completed this challenge (and with Gold to boot!) Man, you're awesome! Cool team, too - Taunt Skarmory and SubRoost Zapdos is definitely a cool perk of your team. I must say, though, your team looks terribly weak to NP Thundurus. I'd replace Jirachi's Thunder for Body Slam to help with this. DragMag teams are also a bitch - Ice Beam on Politoed helps, as well as giving Jirachi U-turn > Stealth Rock. You can add Stealth Rock on Celebi instead, maybe over Leech Seed. But most of all, congrats!! __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Dec 4th, 2012, 7:01:22 AM	#4
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,627 Greece	Registered Participants (credit to alkinesthetase for the format) PLEASE KEEP YOUR REGISTRATION UP TO DATE. When you achieve HoF status with a Stall Team, always update the original post! That way, when we need to update our lists, we can just skip through the registration list. You can make a new post as well to let us know, but always make sure the updates for ladder ranking, alt name, etc are in the original post. We cannot guarantee that we will notice ANY data outside of them. Alkinesthetase spent over two hours updating DH's list last month; doing this saves us a lot of time. Be tenacious and ladder to the top! If you've already reached the Hall of Fame this month, you can continue to participate in the project by improving your Hall of Fame record even further. ~~~ Last Update: Jan 3th 3:48:32 AM[Eastern European Time GMT +2 forum time] Current Participants: 21 (Newest: Meru) Princess Bri - stallish homegirl DarkBlazeR - Dironx - 2131 (#9) on 12/5/2012 Ryuuki - Ryuuki Manitary - Threepwood jaredz99 - KansasCityChief - HailFighting - 1965 (#83) on 12/8/2012 KRageToo - WallRage WashedLaundry - WashedLaundry lokt - sandstall superstar - Childish G SoulMuse - SwordsDancer S0L1D G0LD - S0L1D G0LDdt Brave Bird spam - TheTrollMaster Milos - 1999 Melee Mewtwo - Smash4 Mewtwo YoYoNerd - YoYoNerdess czechm8 - ChipAway Bedlington - Bedlington - Pallas Scarfwynaut - Soviet Bubblegum kalamadude - Kalamadude_1 - 2078 (#49) on 12/19/2012 Leftiez - Leftoverz/Leftovers Meru - Eighty __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check! Last edited by alexwolf; Jan 2nd, 2013 at 8:52:10 PM.

Dec 4th, 2012, 7:33:57 AM	#6
DarkBlazeR Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 353	Username: DarkBlazeR PS! Alt: Dironx Ranking: N/A

Dec 4th, 2012, 9:41:27 AM	#8
Ryuuki Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 25	Username: Ryuuki Ranking: 1297 since this project is running agein, is it okej to run CM or Qurse as long as there's no move that can benifit from the sp.atk/atk boost and count it as a deffencive pokemon? ex Quagisre with Qurse, scald, slack off and toxic.

Dec 4th, 2012, 1:04:39 PM	#12
jaredz99 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 59	Alright, I'm signing up with a team of MixBelt Abomasnow/Stallrein/Forretress/Gliscor/Sp.Def Jirachi/Blissey. I think that Gliscor technically doesn't meet the 460 EVs requirement but it's the standard defensive set, I'll PM you. Username: jaredz99 PS Alt: KansasCityChief Ranking: Not yet.

Dec 4th, 2012, 5:04:45 PM	#14
DarkBlazeR Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 353	Yeah you pretty much hit the nail on the head, NP Thundurus-T is a big problem for this team, fortunately I never ran into it whilst playing in this ladder run (only Scarf sets) which is why I forgot to mention it lol. Thanks for the feedback, I will definitely take it into consideration as I am still planning on using this team and perfecting it. I'm a bit attached to Leech Seed on Celebi I must admit, but yeah I don't mind making sacrifices, as I've mentioned in my post. Body Slam on Jirachi does sound good though, however I do like being able to nail Tentacruel/Jellicent for a strong hit, and the ability to beat SubDisable Gengar, whom is also a significant threat otherwise. One change I have considered myself is HP [Ice] > Roar on Zapdos. Having a secondary phazer is always nice, and I imagine it would make Zapdos even more of a troublemaker in the late game when hazards are down. Coverage against Venusaur/Garchomp/Thundurus-T would be sorely missed though.

Dec 4th, 2012, 10:58:05 PM	#15
KRageToo Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 12	I guess I'll give it a try this month. Pokemon Showdown! Username: WallRage Hall of Fame Standing: N/A Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A

Dec 5th, 2012, 12:01:45 AM	#16
WashedLaundry Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 11 The Land of Bros and Snows	Just starting on Christmas break soon so I'll sign up. Pokemon Showdown! Username: WashedLaundry Hall of Fame Standing: N/A Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A

Dec 5th, 2012, 12:52:48 AM	#17
lokt Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 106	Pokemon Showdown! Username: sandstall Hall of Fame Standing: N/A Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: N/A

Dec 5th, 2012, 10:35:29 PM	#20
jaredz99 Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 59	Starting with a new alt b/c substantial team changes and several losing streaks. I stalled out at about 1840 on the last one, just under the top 100 reqs :P EDITED because the alt I had chosen was already taken :\ REAL new alt: HailFighting Last edited by jaredz99; Dec 6th, 2012 at 1:07:08 PM.

Dec 6th, 2012, 1:36:20 PM	#21
tw1g007 Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 7	Darkblazer your team while pretty cool and covering many basis is still prone to mixed set Hydreigons especially since most of them now carry earthquake. Kyurem-B while not really popular could severely damage your team also. If Jirachi switches in it and takes the physical thunder attack, it won't be able to heal in time since it lacks protect [basically cube hits you hard 3 or so times to your death or pray to the hax gods the paralysis thunder sets in and gives you a chance]. Once Jirachi is dealt with, no one else in your team stands much of a chance against its ridiculous Outrage (on a weakened team) or its other super effective attacks. Also you are slightly weak to a Rotom-W + Pursuit Tyranitar pairing. If you switch in and check the volt switch with Celebi then you put yourself in a 50/50 position if the TTar carries say [Fire Blast or most likely Crunch] and Pursuit. Now I guess shed shell would also be an option but is better suited in a tournament since Magnezone essentially beats Skarmory for free with Thunderbolt and slowly chips away at Jirachi. Basically, if such scenerios happen with a typical dragmag team then its gg for your opponent. Gothielle also wrecks major players in your team like Skarmory and Tentacruel especially. Dugtrio is manageable with a little bit of prediction and strong emphasis on breaking its sash asap. I am still not even sure about Zapdos' placement on the team to be honest. I guess its a reliable check for thunder attacks but seeing how popular Rotom-W is, chances for Hydro Pump on a switch in is pretty likely. Zapdos is the only possible replacement I can see to cover major flaws while trying to perfect your team but since you stated it plays a central role then I don't know who else you could switch around at this point. I guess thats the annoying thing about stall. You really can't cover everything. Last edited by tw1g007; Dec 6th, 2012 at 1:53:57 PM.

Dec 6th, 2012, 5:09:02 PM	#22
SoulMuse Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 3	Username: SoulMuse PS! Alt: SwordsDancer Ranking: None yet.... Might as well use this as an excuse to actually try stal...and make an account here.

Dec 6th, 2012, 8:05:27 PM	#23
S0L1D G0LD Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 21	i'll sign up. Username: S0L1D G0LD PS! Alt: S0L1D G0LDdt Ranking: N/A __________________ http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...FE182C74C4.jpg Bring on the A-Team!

Dec 6th, 2012, 8:12:28 PM	#24
Brave Bird spam Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 47	Created a smogon account to participate in this project :] PS! Alt: TheTrollMaster Hall of Fame Standing: None as of now PS! Ladder Ranking: 1000(I think that's where the alt starts at) Last edited by Brave Bird spam; Dec 7th, 2012 at 7:12:57 PM.

Dec 6th, 2012, 8:36:58 PM	#25
Milos Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 352 Argentina	Pokemon Showdown! Username: 1999 Hall of Fame Standing: n/a Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: none as of yet