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Old Feb 11th, 2013, 11:23:11 PM   #26
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Add those please:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat AC of SpD
- Mention Roserade and RestTalk Gyarados as partners. The first can set up Spikes and T-Spikes and gets free switches against the water-types that Heatran attracts. The latter has perfect defensive synergy with Heatran, aside from Rock and Electric moves, and Gyarados can handle most Water-types, physical Dragons, and even choiced Terrakion with the help of Protect on Heatran
- Earth Power for opposing Heatran, Tentacruel, Terrakion and Infernape
- Taunt to get past the blobs, Jellicent, and stop Ferrothorn in rain from setting up on Heatran. Whenever i use Taunt on SpD Heatran i use it over Roar, as Heatran needs Toxic and Protect to get past the blobs with Taunt
- Hidden Power Ice for dragons, Gliscor, and Landorus(-T)

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Old Feb 13th, 2013, 8:27:15 PM   #27
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All changes made! Also, I wrote the analysis itself now because as I have heard of, does the third QC need it to be written now?
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Old Feb 14th, 2013, 9:12:49 AM   #28
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The offensive set would like an AC mention of Flame Charge, as its a hell of a great sweeper in sun.

AC Specs on the Scarf set. GL
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Old Feb 14th, 2013, 11:46:05 AM   #29
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^Specs already has its own set.
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Old Feb 14th, 2013, 12:38:04 PM   #30
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Very informative topic, I liked the Scarf-Tran the most and it has been very strong with it's STAB Fire Blast, great revenge killer and a good hp-ice for the predicted switches.
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Old Feb 20th, 2013, 4:49:55 AM   #31
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Too big for me to check in one sitting - gonna offer feedback in piece meals ;x

Overview:
I am surprised you introduced Heatran without mentioning at all about its unique typing. Fire / Steel combined with its ability is the main reason why Heatran is the top OU Pokemon in BW2 despite the prevalence of Rain. Heatran possesses the offensive prowess of a Fire type coupled with the defensive prowess of a Steel type, resulting in this tanky nuke. In a way, the typing is a double-edged sword in a way, making Heatran extremely weak to common moves like EQ, Close Combat, and Surf, while giving it plethora of useful resistances, most notably resistance to Bullet Punch and Draco Meteors. While its typing turns Heatran into one of the best checks to Sun Offense, it's typing makes it one of the easiest preys for Dugtrio to eliminate. Its ability Flash Fire complete's Heatran's defensive and offensive build, by being immune to Fire moves, while boosting its own powerful Fire move further!

Offensive:
Quote:
Peharps this makes Earth Power more important than even Heatran's STAB Fire Blast, as otherwise, other Heatran would be able to switch in with absolute impunity.
Nah, cut out the hyperbole - Heatran's powerful STAB Fire Blast to roast Ferrothorn, etc is more important than Earth Power's ability to eliminate opposing Heatran. Rephrase this
Quote:
Heatran is able to defeat any Dragon-type that lacks a Fighting-type or Water-type attack.
What about EQ?
Quote:
Will-O-Wisp can cripple any Fighting-type not named Conkeldurr, that would dare switching in.
Fighting-types don't usually switch into Heatran, so this is a weird sentence. Common targets of Will-O-Wisp would be common Heatran switch-ins like Tyranitar, Gyarados, Dragonite, and Terrakion. Rephrase
Quote:
It also lets Heatran beat Dugtrio (especially useful if it use Life Orb), as Heatran can hit Dugtrio on the switch, and outspeed thanks to the Speed boost, and OHKO Dugtrio with Hidden Power or Fire Blast.
Another weird phrase in red - Heatran does not need Life Orb to beat Dugtrio. Maybe rephrase that LO is a particularly useful item for sweeping with Flame Charge in a separate sentence from Dugtrio.
Quote:
never take out any EVs from this, as (especially if you don't use Life Orb) Heatran is otherwise too weak to fight back.
Again, cut out the hyperbole. Heatran will never be "too weak." Find a more precise way to describe your point.
Quote:
4 SpD seems trivial at first, but prevent the rare yet very annoying Porygon2 from gaining a Special Attack boost. Although Heatran can still not do much back (unless it has Taunt or Toxic), it can prevent its teammates from taking too much damage from Porygon2's attacks.
Too much space just to justify 4 SpD EVs. Truncate this into a simple sentence, or even leave it entirely out, since it's largely irrelevant.
Quote:
However, a bulky EV spread of 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe and a Modest nature is very viable, as apart from the aforementioned threats, there aren't much situations where Heatran will be in need of speed, and the extra bulk is very appreciated.
It's worth mentioning that with max HP, Heatran may run Chople Berry to comfortably survive hits from Terrakion, Breloom, and other fighting moves.

~ Good teammate suggestions

Specially Defensive:

~ Too much slashitis; keep it simple for the readers. That said, Taunt is a really useful move on defensive mons to prevent set up. I'll only ask to remove HP Ice and drop it into AC
Quote:
It is a much more reliable way to spread burns, and can affect Poison- and Steel-types.
Remove phrase in strike out
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Old Feb 20th, 2013, 8:56:33 AM   #32
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Made the suggested changes, Pocket. I actually didn't even noticed that I forgot of talking of Heatran's fantastic typing.
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Old Feb 22nd, 2013, 11:06:22 PM   #33
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In general:
- QC discussed this, and we decided that the set order should be:
Offensive -> SpD -> Trapper -> Scarf -> Sub -> Specs

Offensive set:

Quote:
However, a bulky EV spread of 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe and a Modest nature is very viable
What is that outspeeding? What sits on 192 Speed? If it's 8 Speed Heatran, then that's speed creeping. I reckon just drop it to 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

Choice Specs:

Quote:
Even Chansey and Blissey cannot whitstand 2 sun-boosted Fire Blast; they are 2HKOed after Stealth Rock damage.
Important to note that this is doesn't always happen, you have about a 50/50 shot of getting that 2HKO on Blissey after SR and Leftovers (less factoring in accuracy), not 100%.

Fix these and I'll approve. Good job.
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Old Feb 27th, 2013, 6:21:58 AM   #34
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Specially Defensive:

~ After revisiting this set, the slashitis really make this set look disorganized. From reading many RMTs and personal experience from the ladder, I say that Lava Plume, Protect, and Toxic are pretty much staples, with the last slot being interchangeable among Stealth Rock, Roar, and Earth Power. Thus I suggest the move order to be changed to the following:

move 1: Lava Plume
move 2: Protect
move 3: Toxic
move 4: Stealth Rock / Earth Power / Roar
(move HP Ice and Taunt to AC)

Substitute:

~ Well written, nothing much to add other than specify Vaporeon as ones with Hydration, because Water Absorb Vaporeon would certainly be annoyed by status.

~ Actually I have a couple of things to say. Although Natural Cure Pokemon can switch out to cure status, it is still suffering from the status affliction while it's active. Thus the likes of offensive Starmie would find itself worn out after a 2-3 turns of status damage, and same can be said for Chansey / Blissey without Aromatherapy, wearing down just as fast as Heatran most likely. You should thus clarify this in your set comments. The only Pokemon truly unperturbed by this set is Hydration Vaporeon.

~ Sand and hazards would be particularly synergistic with this set, as sand exacerbates the passive damage of status afflictions, and hazards would punish Natural Cure and other hardy Pokemon from switching out.

~ AC Protect and Taunt: This Heatran can be particularly nasty in conjunction with Protect or Taunt over Earth Power, serving a similar role as toxicstalling or stallbreaker Gliscor. It can simply Toxic-stall with Sub + Protect or prevent the likes of Chansey, Blissey, etc from healing themselves or their teammates with Softboiled / Wish / Aromatherapy.

Choice Scarf:

~ Actually Fire Blast is quite indispensable on Heatran, since it has great sweep potential and much less set-up bait than post special drop from Overheat. Slash Overheat before Flamethrower as an accurate and powerful alternative to Fire Blast, when Heatran can afford the special drop but cannot afford to miss. Remove Overheat slash on Fire Blast of course.
  • Make sure your Set Comments and AC reflect this change (ie more emphasis on Fire Blast and less emphasis on Overheat; explain why Overheat is NOT Tran's main move and Fire Blast is its main move.)
Quote:
Although base 77 Speed is seemingly not sufficient, it still lets Heatran outrun up to base 130s, as well as +1 Adamant Dragonite.
I'd also include +1 Gyarados, since Heatran can technically check it with Hidden Power Electric.

~ Remove HP Grass from AC; it's simply an inferior move that should never be used on ScarfTran over HP Ice / HP Ele

~ AC Stealth Rock, Sleep Talk, Will-O-Wisp, Toxic: I've seen players actually use on there Scarf Heatran, because it can afford to do so. Heatran forces many switches that allows it to set up Stealth Rock early-game. With Sleep Talk, it can absorb sleep from likes of Amoonguss and Venusaur and not be useless. Will-O-Wisp and Toxic are targeted on common bulky Water, Rock, or Dragon type switch-ins that attempt to wall or set up on Heatran.

~ AC Stone Edge for no other purpose than killing Volcarona, which scores an OHKO even with Timid Nature.

~ AC Modest Nature: Heatran loses the ability to hit before +1 Adamant Dragonite and +1 Adamant Gyarados, but it does provide Heatran more notable power for late-game sweep, especially on a Sun team, which most often includes a fast Chlorophyll sweeper anyways.

Weather Trapper:
Quote:
Air Balloon will also help against Dugtrio; it will not be able to trap Heatran, and will be KOed through Focus Sash if it switches on Magma Storm, effectively making this Heatran a difficult target for Dugtrio.
Include that it also aids in dispatching Hippowdon, as it is forced to either Ice Fang or better yet Whirlwind, as it cannot touch Air Balloon Heatran otherwise.

~ AC Taunt to prevent Tyranitar / Hippowdon / Blissey from setting up rocks. It also have the added bonus of preventing Hippowdon from phazing Heatran or Blissey from healing, thereby being at Heatran's full mercy (assuming tran is holding Air Balloon) while entrapped.

~ AC Modest & Life Orb to have the greatest potential to 2HKO Blissey / Chansey with Magma Storm after little residual damage.

~ AC Shuca Berry & Max HP to comfortably survive Dugtrio's EQ and retaliate KO with Magma Storm

Quote:
For this reason, Dugtrio is an excellent partner. Although it seems to be redundant as it can also trap, it is able to dispose of Tyranitar, no matter which set it runs.
I think redundant trapping is actually the whole point here. Heatran initiates the trapping of weather-inducers with Magma Storm, and do as much damage as possible. Even if Heatran falls short and bites the dust, Dugtrio immediately replaces its spot and finish off the weather summoners without fail (well except for Hippowdon perhaps, which Heatran should be able to dispose on its own). It's this ability to double-whammy the summoner with a dual-trapping core without being completely useless outside of this function that makes this set so potent.
Quote:
Make sure that the opponent does not have a Pokémon that can change the weather back before sacrificing this set or Ninetales. If your opponent has something like Tornadus with Rain Dance, it can undo all your hard effort.
I don't like this quote. If Heatran has contributed in the removal of the weather summoner, then it has done its job. Tornadus can change the weather, but it'll be temporary, Ninetales can change the weather. Now this is a different story, if you lose Ninetales, and Tornadus removes Sun with Rain Dance, but this is an analysis about Heatran not Ninetales... I'd simply remove this last part.
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Old Feb 27th, 2013, 7:35:34 AM   #35
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Even offensive heatran has some defensive responsibilities. Running 32 HP EVs still allow it to outspeed toxicroak, while 56 still allow it to outspeed adamant breloom.
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Old Feb 28th, 2013, 11:39:08 AM   #36
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Did the aforementioned changes. However, I think that offensive Heatran should still use max Speed to not miss out outspeeding opposing Heatran.
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Old Mar 1st, 2013, 6:42:05 AM   #37
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Good job.


QC Approved 3/3
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Old Mar 14th, 2013, 1:44:10 AM   #38
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Deletions
Addditions / Corrections
Comments


...


The prose was a little messy at first, but it improved afterwards. The main problem was with prepositions and Smogon's grammar conventions; please take a good look at both. There were also several repeated spelling mistakes (such as "investiment" and "peharps") which could have been avoided. Otherwise,



GP 1 / 2

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Old Mar 14th, 2013, 4:17:14 PM   #39
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yo the move is written SolarBeam not Solarbeam
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Old Mar 16th, 2013, 11:59:35 PM   #40
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Done changes, this needs only one more GP check
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Old Mar 23rd, 2013, 6:55:07 AM   #41
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REMOVE CHANGE/ADD COMMENTS
Amateur GP Check
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Old Mar 24th, 2013, 10:27:06 PM   #42
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Oglemi and I are double teaming this one. I'm doing the first three sets + overview, Ogles is doing last three sets + OO/C+C.

...

There are a lot of words missing spaces between them (possibly from previous corrections). I think I caught most of them, but pay attention when implementing to see if I missed any. =) I thought this flowed nicely and was pretty well-written, good job!


GP Approved 2/2~

(Stamped the first three sets and overview)
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Old Mar 25th, 2013, 12:33:17 AM   #43
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GP Approved 2/2
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Old Apr 10th, 2013, 10:52:34 PM   #44
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Unfortunately, the quality in this prose is just not up to standard. As a result, I'll be reassigning this analysis.
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