The Next Best Thing - Page 2

Majestic Electric · Jan 26th, 2013, 4:17:48 PM

Go Annoyer!

TheCanadianWifier · Jan 26th, 2013, 9:07:15 PM

Shovel :]

GoForTheSub · Jan 26th, 2013, 9:23:33 PM

Shovel :]

JoshuaMunoz · Jan 26th, 2013, 9:30:16 PM

Annoyer

Phoenix512 · Jan 26th, 2013, 11:33:41 PM

Shovel but I would take Stone Edge over Earthquake with the set.

Leafshield · Jan 27th, 2013, 1:04:38 PM

I think I like Annoyer's set more. It surprised me with its versatility, and fits on a ton of teams extremely well.

Ryanor · Jan 27th, 2013, 1:16:34 PM

I prefer Annoyer's set, it can face to any team, both defensive and offensive. SubSeed Torterra has more problems due to sap sippers.

Mylo Xyloto · Jan 27th, 2013, 2:06:30 PM

that set of Shovel looks pretty cool

BROStime · Jan 27th, 2013, 6:52:25 PM

Annoyer
That Torterra set is really good as it can beat both defensive and offensive teams which is what making this set so good.

Brave Bird spam · Jan 27th, 2013, 8:58:02 PM

Annoyer's set seems really potent. I hadn't thought of SD torterra before

DTC · Jan 27th, 2013, 10:08:10 PM

And... Annoyer wins with a grand total of 12 votes! Shovel was in second place with 9 votes. Good stuff.

Next Pokemon...

Miltank!

Some things to consider:

What is thought to "counter" this pokemon?
Is there anyway to bypass this pokemon's so-called "counters?
What moves are seldom used on this pokemon, but have the most upside?
What niches can this pokemon potentially fill in the current metagame?
What opposing pokemon does this pokemon do well against?
How can this pokemon benefit it's teammates?

Punchshroom · Jan 28th, 2013, 3:21:43 AM

The biggest quirk to Miltank is its abilities. I don't want to have my ghost paralyzed by Scrappy Body Slam; I don't want to have my Charizard fail to KO Thick Fat Miltank and get T-Waved; I don't want to risk seeding or powdering the Miltank in case of Sap Sipper. When you first encounter a Miltank, these thoughts will invariably run through your head and you do not want to screw up against it. Deducing its ability via its team structure could work, but it's no guarantee, and the last thing you want is to waste a turn against what could be an efficient bulky supporter and/or a resilient tank of a pokemon (Whitney, *shudders*)

Constantinipple · Jan 28th, 2013, 4:03:54 AM

i fucking love Miltank in NU, it can go both defensive and offensive, having a good support movepool and a decent offensive one as well. plus, Miltank has two amazing abilities in Thick Fat for the defensives and Sap Sipper for those who want to go offensive. defensive Miltanks would be way more popular if Hail was still around, but eh, RU HAD to steal Snover. anyways, my personal preference is offensive Miltank, but it depends on what fits your team better. im gonna first post my set and then talk about some to consider, so you know what im talking about.

Miltank (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sap Sipper
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Milk Drink
- Return / Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Punishment / Thunder Wave / Filler

this set right here fares well on most teams with grass weaknesses, and she's able to fit on alot of team in general already. i've tested this set out for a couple of weeks and it works pretty well. while this may look like the 2nd set from here, it has some twists. the spread is there to outpace every max speed neutral nature base 85, but you can run up to 240 EV's to outpace them at a positive nature (or just run Jolly with a bit less firepower, lol), but the extra bulk paired along with her good defense can come in really handy. i slashed Return before Double-Edge because the recoil + LO can be really annoying for me, even with Milk Drink. Earthquake is a must for coverage, and hits those annoying Rock and Steel types. the 4th moveslot is a filler and is up to your personal preference really, possible fillers will follow later. i recommend that you try this one out if your team has problems with Grass Type pokemons (teams w/ Samurott/Regirock etc etc come to mind), or simply because she packs offensive power while still being able to support the team.

What is thought to ''counter'' this pokemon?

Miltank in general is crippled by Taunt and most bulky ghosts as well. the former disables Milk Drink which can be annoying, and Miltank has got little to nothing for the latter. Taunt Misdreavus is almost a full stop for defensive Miltanks, assuming that they run a set of SR / Milk Drink / Body Slam / Support Move. Scrappy can be used to fix it but missy will take minimal damage from it anyways, invested or not (seriously just run Thick Fat). for offensive ones (like mine), physical defensive behemoths like Alomomola and Regirock can be annoying for obvious reasons, Toxic'ing and T-Waving Miltank respectively, and then continue with walling the shit out of her. Miltank can take advantage of Tangela with Sap Sipper though, ill add some calcs of those three later. Musharna can also be a bitch if you don't run Punishment and decide to run a support move, so i recommend using Punishment if you dont want to waste a teamslot to Skuntank / Cacturne or w/e you guys decide to run as mushy check. Then there are special scarfers like Rotom-A/F who will outspeed and deal pretty much damage, and if Miltank has some prior damage probably revenge kill.
How does this pokemon benefit it's teammates?

while the first three moves on my set are a must, the last slot depends on your team really. does your team struggle with Musharna or other psychic/ghost boosters? Punishment could fix that problem (dont stay in on dangerous non-boosting ghosts, Punishment doesn't do jack). does your team consist of slow powerful wallbreakers like Sawk? no problem, T-Wave is your choice. need some cleric support? ~~wait, Miltank isnt able to do this.~~ Heal Bell is your man. it can also be used for Miltanks own sake, but most of the time for teammates. Miltank is a very versatile pokemon on the support side, and is therefore easy to fit on most teams. and of course, with Miltanks good natural defense and the extra HP EV's for bulk, she can grab some switch ins into other physical moves as well. while she maybe isn't the best sweeper, she can be used to support the team and punch holes in the opponents team to give her teammates room to safely sweep.

gonna do some calcs now and maybe add some more text later.

Calcs

Nyara · Jan 28th, 2013, 5:07:13 AM

Let's see, in order to don't being outclassed, Miltank should be always compared with Kangaskhan, Stoutland, Tauros, Lickilicky, Bouffalant, Audino, and Ursaring. Otherwise she could be just a Poor Woomooman of any of them, and that's not efficient.

Details about stats/abilities:

...

Details about it's unique moves against it's competition:

...

And about items/possible styles of play...

...

Choice Band/Life Orb: If you want to spam Double-Edge/Return/Body Slam and not fear possible Ghost Switch-in's... well, don't do that, Stoutland and Kangaskhan are better at the job because they put more attack on the table. That's pretty much all about it, if you insist, use it with Sap Sipper and aim for the boost (you'll end being a faster, yet, weaker Bouffalant with Sap Sipper), or with Scrappy with max. investment on speed, as the extra speed of Miltank is it's unique selling point with Scrappy + Choice Band/Life Orb. Oh, yeah, don't use it with Punishment, either, reasons were told before.

Lefovers Bulky Attacker: 252 Attack / 252 HP (or spend something on it's special defense), it's not a bad idea, a set like that should have Milk Drink, and maybe a Substitute. It's not really outclassed or even listed, Miltank may have less attack, but it's speed, abilities, and Milk Drink are good selling points against it's competition for the slot. Tauros, Kangaskhan, and Stoutland offer good competition for the place of fast bulky attacker, so, consider what you want to outspeed for the selection, and how much you need Milk Drink and it's abilities into the mix. Bouffalant and Lickilicky offers competition, too, as they have better bulk and attack, so, just use Milktank over them for it's speed and maybe the Sap Sipper against Lickilicky and Milk Drink against Bouffalant. Consider Bulldoze/Rock Tomb, ease prediction on a wonderful way.

All-Out Attacker: Use Tauros (Intimidate/Sheer Force), Kangaskhan (Scrappy niche), or Stoutland (Scrappy niche), they are better at all-out attacking with Silk Scarf/Normal Gem. And if speed doesn't matter too much, Lickilicky and Bouffalant outclass it.

Support: For paralysis, use Stoutland, he can parashuffle, Miltank can't. For Cleric, just read what I said about Heal Bell. For Stealth Rock, use the Mootility already listed on the web. For Toxic (on any set), she's ok. For Sunny Day setter is also ok with Sap Sipper, as she can defend it's team from the possible powered Grass-types from the opponent and possible secret SunnyBeamers, and with Thick Fat can help to cover your grassies from Ice and Fire; Rain Dance and Sandstorm by other hand are not ok, Miltank doesn't offer nothing for rain teams nor Sand teams, and she's just generating herself a new weakness with Rain Dance, and self-damage with Sandstorm.

Tank: Protip: Miltank may looks like a tank because the "tank" part of it's name, but she's not a great tank, still, you can use Stall sets with certain success as Miltank have Milk Drink, but Lickilicky usually does the same job better, unless you need the slot that Protect on Lickilicky needs to be used, then Miltank may have a used over him. Is something to consider on stall teams as all-going-for wall, it's not that bad at walling physical attacks, or even both with just Curse. Rebember it's weak to Taunt/Figthers, so, a partner who can handle team is a must for the moo.

Gimnnickys: Reversal + Endure is there. Bide is also there against some Choice Banders, but you may want Encore support with it. Fling is there if you think you can make a use of it. Gyro Ball is there for Curse Sets (protip: don't use Curse on Miltank). Attrack/Captivate may also work, at least for force switchs, use them with hazards.

Well, that ends with my comparative and as a review from it's possibles sets and stuff, if someone can make use of it and make a better set it could be great.

But as well, I also do have a set for the moo.

Revenge Cleanner MooK1 (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Punishment
- Double-Edge / Return
- Earthquake
- Heal Bell / Toxic / Thunder Wave

Tired of being sweeped by random stuff with boosting moves? Tired of being sweped by Gorebyss and Huntail? Tired of being sweeped all the day and night by Altaria? Fear no more! Our favorite Cow is ready to make them suffer for KOed it's friends. A single Shell Smash is a 6+ Boost, making Punishment as strong as STAB Double-Edge, but without recoil, and Miltank have the bulk to take a hit even if it doesn't OHKO right of the bat, she rarely OHKO things, that's way you have to use her as cleanner and ocassional revenge KOer, because you'll need previous damage from it's partners in order to work, for example Gorebyss needs 43% of previous damage to being OHKOed by Miltank, so, she works better on offensive teams who can trully damage things for her, but she's also able to work on stall ones, as hazards + burns + badly poisons tends to have the same effect.

Double Edge over Return for the needed extra damage, but Return can be used if you want to survive more against priority users or if you're planning a sweep with Baton Pass. Earthquake for Rocks/Steels/Electrics. And for the last slot, Miltank can also be used as a fast cleric who can support it's team on mid game, and prepare it's clean for the end, and revenge on whatever weakneeded enough thing, but if you think you don't need a cleric, you can use Toxic for cripple a coming wall, or Thunder Wave a sweeper you can't stop by yourself. A good point for Miltank is it's bulky, even without investment, Miltank can still resist a boosted attack or two, so, don't be too shy on switch-in her if necessary, and take in acccount she takes priority really well.

About the EVs and nature, Adamant is really a need, but if you're really desesperate to outspeed 2+ Torterra, 1+ Sawsbuck, Haunter, Charizard, and Raichu, you may want to put it Timid, but seriously, you're better with Adamant most of the time. She can also work as a sweeper if you Baton Pass her a Sword Dance, as almost not scarfer or priority will stop her from sweep (you should consider put some EVs on it's HP if you're planning a pass), but even with a Sword Dance, she fails at OHKO some threats like Luxray, Articuno, Musharna, or Throh, so, she needs of hazard support and some previous damage on them before planning to pass her a Sword Dance.

Starships · Jan 28th, 2013, 5:14:43 AM

This one is also offensive but a little different because it has a lot more power and is generally guarantees more OHKOs instead of relying on damage rolls.

Miltank (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Toxic
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake

Double-Edge is for the power to guarantee OHKO's as opposed to Return or Body Slam. With maximum speed it'll be speed-tied with everything else base 100 including the powerhouse Charizard and hopefully killing it (also, Choice Scarf Sawk outspeeds and kills, however Choice Band Sawk is outsped and OHKO'd by Miltank). Adamant guarantees maximum power and allows said moves to OHKO more often. EQ is for things such as Garbodor which it can 2HKO, can OHKO Bastiodon w/ Sturdy broken, 2HKO Golem and allows you to even get past Misdreavus, with an 88% chance of 2HKOing it rather than just 3HKOing on the other offensive set. Toxic is for things you predict are switching in that you don't have the power to otherwise take and likely won't necessarily enjoy getting Toxic'd, such as Alomomola, Tangela, Regirock, Musharna and so on, allowing you to switch out to a more appropriate Pokemon to take them on. Ice Punch allows you to 2HKO Torterra, OHKO Jumpluff, and so on. Opponents will generally be cautious when sending out their Pokemon and likely won't sleep you immediately due to being cautious about Sap Sipper, nor will rush to use Fire and Ice attacks on you, allowing you to take advantage of that and hurt the opponents easier. Scrappy is because Punishment wasn't really necessary as it doesn't do much that Double Edge doesn't, and due to Choice Band it isn't really safe to stay in against Mushy due to lack of recovery.

What is thought to "counter" this pokemon?
Most physical walls that have eviolite or aren't hurt that much by Double-Edge (below are some mons that come to mind that aren't really hurt by Miltank, however are not pleased when Toxic is thrown at them).

...

How can this pokemon benefit its teammates?
It's generally another strong mon to use. It doesn't need to set up to kill a lot of NU mons that aren't physical walls and OHKOs most things that outspeed it. Due to the unpredictability of what it runs you can more easily trick your opponents and hit them hard with power, while they'll likely expect another move. While it dies fast if it abuses its STAB like Rapidash (and the departed Emboar) it's still powerful and can do a lot more damage than the other sets posted thus far can do, and can definitely be a surprise to opponents which is always a benefit.

Nyara · Jan 28th, 2013, 5:22:48 AM

Timid Scrappy Kangaskhan 252 Atk / 252 Spd is still superior as pure-Choice Bander against Adamant Scrappy Miltank, who sports higher attack (289 vs 284) and speed (able to outspeed max. investment neutral natured 100 base speed all the time), and also had Double-Edge, Earthquake, and Toxic (and Crunch/Sucker Punch in exchange for Ice Punch). And had more HP to take recoil from Double-Edge, had superior special bulk, and similar physical bulk. The unique Miltank's sell point as Choice Bander is being a midpoint between Choice Bander Tauros and Kangaskhan; bulkier than Tauros, faster than Kangaskhan, but you need Timid for outspeed Timid Kangaskhan, so, my suggestion is still use Timid if for use Choice Bander Miltank, in that way at least avoid the outclassing.

Starships · Jan 28th, 2013, 5:32:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Nyara

Timid Scrappy Kangaskhan 252 Atk / 252 Spd is still superior as pure-Choice Bander against Adamant Scrappy Miltank, who sports higher attack (289 vs 284) and speed (able to outspeed max. investment neutral natured 100 base speed all the time), and also had Double-Edge, Earthquake, and Toxic (and Crunch/Sucker Punch in exchange for Ice Punch). And had more HP to take recoil from Double-Edge, had superior special bulk, and similar physical bulk. The unique Miltank's sell point as Choice Bander is being a midpoint between Choice Bander Tauros and Kangaskhan; bulkier than Tauros, faster than Kangaskhan, but you need Timid for outspeed Timid Kangaskhan.

Miltank still has the element of surprise though due to most of the time Kanga being offensive whereas Miltank has a few different ways to go and generally Pokemon that are used to check most Miltank (or in terms of ghosts are expecting just Body Slam or something) can have a terrible surprise. As a result it could get a few unexpected kills, whereas the opponent will likely play differently around Kanga expecting it it to attack outright and switches to the appropriate Pokemon depending on what team the switcher runs, while Miltank on the other hand will cause the opponent to actually think and assume based on team structure, and can catch them by surprise if it's not what the opponent is expecting Miltank to use, which can be beneficial.

Nyara · Jan 28th, 2013, 5:36:19 AM

Well, that's true, actually, if you want to sell the special bulk, less chance to lost 2HKOs, and the possibility to outspeed 100 base speed neutral natured for being able to maybe take an extra priority attack and for the surprise factor, then it's ok, actually, Miltank with a Choice Band hits really hard, but I still suggest that offensive Miltanks needs of too much support to handle physical walls, or needs of Sword Dance Baton Pass to really shine as sweepers or offensive juggernaut, but even then, Miltank can still score a K.O or two with minimal support with a Choice Band, and the surprise factor helps, as Miltank can fill too many roles.

Punchshroom · Jan 28th, 2013, 8:07:29 AM

As mentioned earlier, Miltank's main selling point is its surprise value, unpredictability and versatality, while having a good balance of stat placement to go many ways about it. However, Miltank's greatest downfall is its inability to instantly threaten or punish an opponent for predicting incorrectly, unlike Samurott or 100% health Braviary. Thick Fat variants can survive the respective hits but need status as opposed to sheer power to threaten them; Scrappy variants are better off Toxicing incoming ghosts (Scrappy merely affords mono-Normal coverage). Sap Sipper variants are likely the most threatening of the bunch, but needs the boost to actually start doing real damage or not be inferior to other Normal-type sweepers (The bulk is definitely a thing, but lack of defensive investment and off-the-bat attacking strength can be evident).

Constantinipple · Jan 28th, 2013, 11:00:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Nyara

5. Even when it's listed on the web, Punishment should not be used on offensive sets without Choice Scarf, why? Simple; even when it's the unique physical move of Miltank to hit super effective to Ghost, it's just too weak without STAB, 60 is really low, and you can just use Rock Slide, who offer better general SE coverage, and had a nice flinch rate that Miltank can put on practice with it's high speed; or better, just use Scrappy. Now, why not on offensive sets? Simple: Nobody will setup on a offensive Miltank ever in it's live, because Miltank hits hard enough to make it not a good idea, and even if they do (2+), Return is still doing more damage to anything most of the time, and Rock Slide/Fighting moves offer better coverage than Punishment, and if you want to stop 4-6+ sweeps; know what, you will not, 4-6+ sweeps most of the time are by hands of some Attack + Defense, or Attack + Speed, a 4+ foe is still being more damaged by Return, and a 6+ will not being damaged good enough, or will just outspeed you and destroy you.

i think the sole purpose of using Punishment on Miltank is Musharna, as it acts like a check to it when it's rampaging, while the player doesnt have to spend a teamslot to skuntank or the likes. it can also come in handy against CM Drifblim. on your set is could possibly be used for Gorebyss too, as it OHKO's and outspeeds with Timid Nature when gorebyss has one SS boost. other than those three, she shouldnt be staying in on bulky ghosts like Misdreavus and Golurk anyways (unless scrappy, but sap sipper is superior to it in most cases) so using Punishment would be useless (unless its offensive CM missy). what im trying to say is that Punishment is not useless on non-scarf Miltanks, because its primary target is Musharna.

BROStime · Jan 28th, 2013, 11:54:58 AM

Miltank @ Life Orb
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 40 HP | 252 Atk | 216 Spd
Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Body Slam / Return
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Milk Drink

This set is really good, hitting the whole meta neutral due to Scrappy, this set really benefit spikestacking teams, as this will help Miltank force through walls late game as it hit quite hard with Body Slam/Return. Stealth Rock + Spikes will help this set out a lot as 3HKO's becomes 2HKO's, and 2HKO's become OHKO's which make, Roselia and Garbodor excellent partners due to their ability to lay Spikes and resist fighting. Golurk is another good teammate for Miltank as Golurk can beat Regirock which Miltank has huge problems with. The moveset is easy, Body Slam is prefered as it has a nice 30% chance to paralyze, and it also let's Miltank benefit from Substitute more, Return might be chosen over Body Slam as it hs higher BP. Milk Drink is there for longivity and works excellent with Substitute + Life Orb. The EV's is to outspeed max speed Haunter so it can KO with Body Slam/Return before Haunter can Sludge Bomb/HP Fighting as this will hurt pretty bad, rest is put into HP for some bulk.
Pokemon that can wall and possibly beat Miltank is mostly Defensive walls like Regirock, SubBU Braviary, Alomomola etc. So pokemon like Ludicolo and Samurott is great teammates for Miltank.

Shuckleking87 · Jan 28th, 2013, 4:21:42 PM

Miltank @Leftovers/Life orb/Lum Berry/Salac Berry (Someone please try this one)
Ability: Scrappy/Sap sipper
40 HP/ 252 Attack/ 216 Speed Jolly (+Speed -SA)
Double Edge/ Return
Earthquake/Punishment
Psych Up
Milk Drink

This set is very similar to the MooFensive set and, honestly is a little combination of all of the previous sets. What makes this stand out is Psych up. One of the greatest troubles when I or my opponent uses miltank is its vulnerability for getting set up on. Psych Up is a great way to keep pokes in place. The only boosting moves that is semi difficult for it to handle are dragon dances, but if miltank can live an +1 or (Altaria, fraxure, and dragonair are the 3 main DD users, and can live all attack at +1 except jolly life orb fraxure, psych up and ko back. These pokes are not used that often, though, and is not much of a worry. It will beat bulk up braviary and Floatzel, though it will not break through gurdurr or throh. Or any fighting poke, really. It can do damage to Sawk, as it will do 61-72% with double edge/leftovers while outspeeding all non-scarefed sawk varients. Also an excellent check to just about all calm mind users (minus unburdened drifblim and possibly swoobat), as it can psych up to not take much damage, and return with a double edge or punishment. Punishment would primarily be needed for musharna and all ghosts. Earthquake is for steel and rock types that would take nothing from miltank otherwise, though earthquake will not be doing a whole lot either way.

This set's ev spread is to outspeed positive 95 speed pokes. Max speed won't really do that much besides speed tie with Charizard and outspeed Basculin, though it is a prefectly acceptable alternate. Rest of EV's in attack and the leftover in HP for obvious reasons.

This set tries to unite the ability to hit hard with STAB, hit ghosts, rock and steels, and not be set up fodder. With this set, status will be a problem, so Lum berry may not be such a bad idea. Double Edge can scare people with the recoil, so return can be used instead. While body slam has the nice 30% chance of paralysis, it is not strong enough for this powerful cow. Life orb can be used to buff up this cow, however, double edge and life orb recoil isnt that great, so I would suggest return with life orb. Sap Sipper is an interesting option on this set, as I was really torn as to what was more important for Miltank, and the attack boost is a big plus.

Someone please try Salac berry. Just please. Hopefully it can do wonders.

Nyara · Jan 28th, 2013, 7:45:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Constantinipple

i think the sole purpose of using Punishment on Miltank is Musharna, as it acts like a check to it when it's rampaging, while the player doesnt have to spend a teamslot to skuntank or the likes. it can also come in handy against CM Drifblim. on your set is could possibly be used for Gorebyss too, as it OHKO's and outspeeds with Timid Nature when gorebyss has one SS boost. other than those three, she shouldnt be staying in on bulky ghosts like Misdreavus and Golurk anyways (unless scrappy, but sap sipper is superior to it in most cases) so using Punishment would be useless (unless its offensive CM missy). what im trying to say is that Punishment is not useless on non-scarf Miltanks, because its primary target is Musharna.

60 x 2 = 120
120 x 1,5 = 180

Let's asume 1 Calm Mind: 60 + 40 x 2 = 200

Now, some calcs.:

...

So, Miltank can just "stop" Musharna once it's on 2+ or 3+ Calm Mind, but she can't stop him at all, as Musharna can just OHKO her back, of course, this will most probably stop it's sweep, but Double-Edge is already leaving her on a revenge KO range.

...

Quite similar.

Miltank can't switch-in into Musharna, as he can just OHKO the cow with a Calm Mind behind it's belt, and even if you get a free switch-in, Musharna needs of 3+ Calm Mind + Previous Damage in order to "counter/check her", as 1+ or 2+ Calm Mind are almost impossible to OHKO, and he can just OHKO the cow back. If you're really desesperate to use Punishment with the solely reason to check Musharna, the use a Choice Band, invest hard on it's special defense (forgoing speed and HP), and you'll be able, or on the Choice Scarf set can help to stricke back to some common speed boosters, but otherwise, Punishment is not doing too much apart from stealing you a slot.

TL;DR: Punishment Miltank is a really shacky, shacky, shacky, and shacky check (because the moo needs of high numbers of previous damage or of a critical hit in order to "check"), use Skuntank or any other hard hitter. The choice bander moo with Punishment can't even stop Musharna from switching, setting 1+ Calm Mind, and OHKO back.

Constantinipple · Jan 29th, 2013, 1:59:06 AM

You're commenting on us using punishment on non-scarf Miltank, but why are you using it? Just Gorebyss? okay, with one SS boost Punishment gets the power equivalent to Double-Edge, but would you still use it? Being choicelocked into a non stab base 60 power is something that you do not want.. besides, Gorebyss isn't even that common.. I think you shouldn't use it on choice sets.

edit: now that i think about it, most Musharnas won't KO Miltank straight away, they will just be greedy and get some more CM boost, and once Punishment is shown, its already to late.

Nyara · Jan 29th, 2013, 4:53:58 AM

Taking in account you need your opponent to get greedy to actually check it, that's what I call a shaky check, you - can - check if you're lucky enough with the rolls/opponent's stupidness/magic/previous support, I guess that works for the overall number of the players, but I could rather run a counter if Musharna is really a concern, as most of the time, Miltank will don't do too much to the cause. About the Choice Scarf set, it's also aimed for a sort of boosters, the best examples are the Shell Smahers, but you can also use her against a Dragon Dancer, or Rock Polish users and you'll do OK with the enough support, after all, you'll switch-in and out too much with a Scarf, and lost more of your precious HP with Double Edge without need hurts, and with a Choice Scarf you can outspeed some 1+ and 2+ without problem, at difference of Choice Band. Also, there's no need to extra coverage, so, an anti-sweeps move comes handy on something who can't be outspeeded at all.

Jan 26th, 2013, 4:17:48 PM	#26
Majestic Electric Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 154 Behind you...	Go Annoyer! __________________ Real men play Pokemon!

Jan 26th, 2013, 9:07:15 PM	#27
TheCanadianWifier Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 39 Near Toronto, Canada	Shovel :] __________________ NU is where I excel (SubBU Brav = GG), however I'm pretty competitive in OU/UU as well. RU is just a mystery to me, I'm horrible at it.. Hackmons is fun too :] I'm TheCanadianWifier on Youtube and Showdown, and TCWER just about everywhere else.

Jan 26th, 2013, 9:23:33 PM	#28
GoForTheSub Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 6	Shovel :] __________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/ToxicImperialism :]

Jan 26th, 2013, 11:33:41 PM	#30
Phoenix512 Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 153	Shovel but I would take Stone Edge over Earthquake with the set. __________________ My HeartGold Scramble

Jan 27th, 2013, 2:06:30 PM	#33
Mylo Xyloto Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 417 RSA	that set of Shovel looks pretty cool __________________ \| Like the ceiling can’t hold us \| ~

Jan 26th, 2013, 9:30:16 PM	#29
JoshuaMunoz Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 256	Annoyer

Jan 27th, 2013, 1:04:38 PM	#31
Leafshield Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 110 Toledo, OH	I think I like Annoyer's set more. It surprised me with its versatility, and fits on a ton of teams extremely well.

Jan 27th, 2013, 1:16:34 PM	#32
Ryanor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 164	I prefer Annoyer's set, it can face to any team, both defensive and offensive. SubSeed Torterra has more problems due to sap sippers.

Jan 27th, 2013, 6:52:25 PM	#34
BROStime Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 348 First they ignore you, then laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.	Annoyer That Torterra set is really good as it can beat both defensive and offensive teams which is what making this set so good. __________________ VM / PM me for a BW2 team rate!

Jan 27th, 2013, 8:58:02 PM	#35
Brave Bird spam Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 47	Annoyer's set seems really potent. I hadn't thought of SD torterra before

Jan 27th, 2013, 10:08:10 PM	#36
DTC Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,069 Mentor	And... Annoyer wins with a grand total of 12 votes! Shovel was in second place with 9 votes. Good stuff. Next Pokemon... Miltank! Some things to consider: What is thought to "counter" this pokemon? Is there anyway to bypass this pokemon's so-called "counters? What moves are seldom used on this pokemon, but have the most upside? What niches can this pokemon potentially fill in the current metagame? What opposing pokemon does this pokemon do well against? How can this pokemon benefit it's teammates? __________________ Pokemon Showdown! #pokemon

Jan 28th, 2013, 3:21:43 AM	#37
Punchshroom Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 440	The biggest quirk to Miltank is its abilities. I don't want to have my ghost paralyzed by Scrappy Body Slam; I don't want to have my Charizard fail to KO Thick Fat Miltank and get T-Waved; I don't want to risk seeding or powdering the Miltank in case of Sap Sipper. When you first encounter a Miltank, these thoughts will invariably run through your head and you do not want to screw up against it. Deducing its ability via its team structure could work, but it's no guarantee, and the last thing you want is to waste a turn against what could be an efficient bulky supporter and/or a resilient tank of a pokemon (Whitney, shudders) __________________ Warstories: Risk or Reward? Riolu be Shufflin' Serving them HOT!! Playtime's Over! Double Commentary for Double Battle?! Double Feature! Deluged Dimensions! Hazards Matter! Shorts: Beating Whitney at her own game! Challenge Cup Status Shenanigans Punchshroom: disagreement leads to resistance, which leads to conflict, which leads to battle, which leads to WARSTORIIEEESSSS!!!

Jan 28th, 2013, 4:03:54 AM	#38
Constantinipple Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 115 SO I HERD YOU LIKE MUDKIPZ	i fucking love Miltank in NU, it can go both defensive and offensive, having a good support movepool and a decent offensive one as well. plus, Miltank has two amazing abilities in Thick Fat for the defensives and Sap Sipper for those who want to go offensive. defensive Miltanks would be way more popular if Hail was still around, but eh, RU HAD to steal Snover. anyways, my personal preference is offensive Miltank, but it depends on what fits your team better. im gonna first post my set and then talk about some to consider, so you know what im talking about. Miltank (F) @ Life Orb Trait: Sap Sipper EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd Adamant Nature - Milk Drink - Return / Double-Edge - Earthquake - Punishment / Thunder Wave / Filler this set right here fares well on most teams with grass weaknesses, and she's able to fit on alot of team in general already. i've tested this set out for a couple of weeks and it works pretty well. while this may look like the 2nd set from here, it has some twists. the spread is there to outpace every max speed neutral nature base 85, but you can run up to 240 EV's to outpace them at a positive nature (or just run Jolly with a bit less firepower, lol), but the extra bulk paired along with her good defense can come in really handy. i slashed Return before Double-Edge because the recoil + LO can be really annoying for me, even with Milk Drink. Earthquake is a must for coverage, and hits those annoying Rock and Steel types. the 4th moveslot is a filler and is up to your personal preference really, possible fillers will follow later. i recommend that you try this one out if your team has problems with Grass Type pokemons (teams w/ Samurott/Regirock etc etc come to mind), or simply because she packs offensive power while still being able to support the team. What is thought to ''counter'' this pokemon? Miltank in general is crippled by Taunt and most bulky ghosts as well. the former disables Milk Drink which can be annoying, and Miltank has got little to nothing for the latter. Taunt Misdreavus is almost a full stop for defensive Miltanks, assuming that they run a set of SR / Milk Drink / Body Slam / Support Move. Scrappy can be used to fix it but missy will take minimal damage from it anyways, invested or not (seriously just run Thick Fat). for offensive ones (like mine), physical defensive behemoths like Alomomola and Regirock can be annoying for obvious reasons, Toxic'ing and T-Waving Miltank respectively, and then continue with walling the shit out of her. Miltank can take advantage of Tangela with Sap Sipper though, ill add some calcs of those three later. Musharna can also be a bitch if you don't run Punishment and decide to run a support move, so i recommend using Punishment if you dont want to waste a teamslot to Skuntank / Cacturne or w/e you guys decide to run as mushy check. Then there are special scarfers like Rotom-A/F who will outspeed and deal pretty much damage, and if Miltank has some prior damage probably revenge kill. How does this pokemon benefit it's teammates? while the first three moves on my set are a must, the last slot depends on your team really. does your team struggle with Musharna or other psychic/ghost boosters? Punishment could fix that problem (dont stay in on dangerous non-boosting ghosts, Punishment doesn't do jack). does your team consist of slow powerful wallbreakers like Sawk? no problem, T-Wave is your choice. need some cleric support? ~~wait, Miltank isnt able to do this.~~ Heal Bell is your man. it can also be used for Miltanks own sake, but most of the time for teammates. Miltank is a very versatile pokemon on the support side, and is therefore easy to fit on most teams. and of course, with Miltanks good natural defense and the extra HP EV's for bulk, she can grab some switch ins into other physical moves as well. while she maybe isn't the best sweeper, she can be used to support the team and punch holes in the opponents team to give her teammates room to safely sweep. gonna do some calcs now and maybe add some more text later. Calcs COMMON POKEMON THAT CAN BE DEALT WITH BY MILTANK BULKY SAWK 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Return vs 252HP/0Def Sawk (Neutral): 61% - 72% (217 - 256 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Return vs 252HP/0Def Sawk (Neutral): 92% - 108% (327 - 385 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 53% chance to OHKO. 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/0Def Sawk (Neutral): 72% - 85% (255 - 301 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/0Def Sawk (Neutral): 108% - 127% (384 - 451 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. CB Sawk cannot switch in safely and +1 Double Edge OHKOs, meaning that CB Sawk cannot revenge kill. GARDEVOIR 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Return vs 252HP/0Def Gardevoir (Neutral): 71% - 84% (243 - 288 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Return vs 252HP/0Def Gardevoir (Neutral): 107% - 126% (364 - 430 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/0Def Gardevoir (Neutral): 84% - 99% (286 - 339 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/0Def Gardevoir (Neutral): 126% - 149% (430 - 507 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. not a single non-scarf Gardevoir can switch in safely, watch out for scarf Focus Blast though ROSELIA 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Return vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Roselia (Neutral): 70% - 83% (214 - 253 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Return vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Roselia (Neutral): 105% - 124% (321 - 379 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Roselia (Neutral): 83% - 97% (253 - 297 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/0Def Eviolite Roselia (Neutral): 124% - 146% (378 - 445 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. Miltank can switch in on a Giga Drain, and then KO Roselia. Roselia cannot switch in safely. REGICE 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Return vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Regice (Neutral): 47% - 56% (172 - 204 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 10% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Return vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Regice (Neutral): 70% - 83% (256 - 303 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Regice (Neutral): 55% - 65% (202 - 238 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Regice (Neutral): 82% - 97% (301 - 355 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. Regice cannot switch into Return after Stealth Rock, and Return is a safe 2HKO with stealth rock. Double-Edge guarantees the 2HKO (unless physical regice lol), +1 Double-Edge KOs when rocks are up. there are undoubtedly more pokemon she will deal with, but right now these are the most common. if im not lazy this list will probably get alot longer COMMON NON-GHOST POKEMON WHERE MILTANK STRUGGLES WITH REGIROCK 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Sturdy Regirock (+Def): 26% - 31% (98 - 116 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Sturdy Regirock (+Def): 39% - 47% (144 - 174 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Sturdy Regirock (Neutral): 33% - 39% (122 - 144 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252HP/0Def Leftovers Sturdy Regirock (Neutral): 50% - 59% (184 - 218 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. MUSHARNA 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Punishment vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Musharna (+Def): 40% - 48% (178 - 212 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. (1CM Boost) 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Punishment vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Musharna (+Def): 61% - 72% (270 - 318 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Miltank at +1, Musharna 1CM Boost) 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Punishment vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Musharna (+Def): 57% - 68% (252 - 298 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (2CM Boosts) 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Punishment vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Musharna (+Def): 86% - 101% (376 - 444 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 11% chance to OHKO. (Miltank at +1, Musharna 2CM Boosts) if you dont use Punishment, then dont try to do anything against Musharna but switch to your check, cuz otherwise it might get dangerous :] ALOMOMOLA 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Return vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Alomomola (+Def): 26% - 31% (141 - 169 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Return vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Alomomola (+Def): 40% - 47% (214 - 253 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 252Atk Life Orb Miltank (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Alomomola (+Def): 31% - 37% (166 - 198 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO. 252Atk Life Orb +1 Miltank (+Atk) Double-Edge vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Alomomola (+Def): 47% - 55% (253 - 297 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 8% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers. Last edited by Constantinipple; Jan 28th, 2013 at 8:42:18 AM.

Jan 28th, 2013, 5:07:13 AM	#39
Nyara Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 288 Chile > Santiago	Let's see, in order to don't being outclassed, Miltank should be always compared with Kangaskhan, Stoutland, Tauros, Lickilicky, Bouffalant, Audino, and Ursaring. Otherwise she could be just a Poor Woomooman of any of them, and that's not efficient. Details about stats/abilities: ... Let's compare all their stats: Miltank had the highest Physical Bulk of all of them, bar Intimidate Stoutland and Tauros, who can sport better bulk on the switch, but the difference with Kangaskhan, Bouffalant, Audino, and Lickilicky is minimal. About the Special Bulk, Miltank had certain problems, as it's barely adove avarage, and it's Normal friends outclass it's special bulk with certain distance, except Tauros, and Ursaring sports almost the same. About the Special Attack... well, Audino, Lickilicky and Ursaring can use them, but Ursaring should never do that, so, only Lickilicky can, so, that's a plus for him, and Audino can use some them with Sunny Day/Rain Dance, plus; shame for the others. About the Attack... Miltank have an avarage attack at best, but the others can attack a lot harder; even Lickilicky, who can Explode (STAB), but... Miltank can still attack with decent results. And the Speed: this is actually the most important factor for Miltank, as she's faster than all it's competition, except Tauros, who outclass her in any try of all-attacker-sets. Now let's go about the abilities: Miltank sports Thick Fat, Scrappy, and Sap Sipper, while Kangaskhan sports Early Bird and Scrappy, Stoutland Intimidate and Scrappy, Tauros Intimidate and Sheer Force, Lickilicky Own Tempo and Cloud Nine, Ursaring Guts and Quick Feet, Bouffalant Reckless, Sap Sipper, and Soundproof, and Audino Healer and Regenerator. So, Scrappy Miltank have direct competition from Scrappy Kangaskhan, and Scrappy Stoutland, and partial from Sheer Force Tauros, Ursaring Guts/Quick Feet, and Bouffalant Reckless. Sap Sipper Miltank have direct competition from Bouffalant and partial from Early Bird Kangaskhan, Own Tempo Lickilicky, and Soundproof Bouffalant. Thick Fat Miltank have partial competition from Intimidate Stoutland and Tauros, Cloud Nine Lickilicky, and Regenerator Audino. Details about it's unique moves against it's competition: ... Revelant TM/HM/Tutor compatibility: Thunder Wave, Block, Stealth Rock Revelant Breeding Moves: Curse, Punishment Revelant Level Up Moves: Heal Bell, Drink Milk With revelant I want to mean "moves that almost no one of it's competitors can learn", Thunder Wave is also learned by Stoutland, Block by Lickilicky, Stealth Rock by Wigglytuff (not considered at all as both are pretty different), Heal Bell by Audino and Lickilicky, and Curse by Lickilicky. 1. Don't use Miltank with Thunder Wave most of the time, Stoutland can actually use it a lot better because he have Intimidate, so, he can switch-in better and spread paralysis, and he can even parashuffle because he can phaze, while Miltank not. Also, Stoutland have less speed, so, he'll take more advantage from the paralysis than Miltank, and if you want a paralyzer who can outspeed anything; use Electrode, it's type is better for the job, Electrode outspeed anything without investment and even scarfers with it, and it's bulk is not that bad, he can take pretty decent hits and spread paralysis. 2. Don't use Block, either, Lickilicky can use better that move, why? If you want to trap something, that means you're sure your counters are out from play; Lickilicky have less counters, as Miltank is partially countered by special hard hitters, but Lickilicky doesn't, so, once you put out from the play it's counters, you can actually use Block at some degree, and start setting up whatever he may want, Belly Drum? Sword Dance? Go. Miltank have more problems to do that, so, a set focussed on Block + Setup is not efficient. 3. It's ok if you want to use Stealth Rock on her if you're not carrying Spin-Blockers, and you think you'll need to put it on the field more than one time, it's because Miltank is one of the bulkier and with less weakness users of Stealth Rock, so, you can use her as your main setter, and forgoe a Spin-Blocker, but actually, Mootility is already listed on the web, so, it's not a new or creative set, and Miltank without Milk Drink is not a good dedicated hazard setter as it's unique niche as Stealth Rock user. So, you can't be creative with Stealth Rock, you have to use Stealth Rock + Sap Sipper/Thick Fat + Milk Drink + Body Slam/Seismic Toss to being efficient at it, nothing new here, it's just like changing Choice Band for Life Orb. 4. She can use Curse to an extent (as long it's counters are put out from game), but, actually, Lickilicky is better at it the 99% of time. Miltank may have better abilities, but Lickilicky sports an a lot higher special bulky, a thing needed for a curser to work, and he does have Explode, and a 1-2+ STAB Explode will destroy anything not resistant or inmune to it, and while Lickilicky have to resort to Wish for healing, he doesn't need to heal to offen as Miltank, and finally, the extra speed of Miltank is somewhat useless with curse; right, you'll have an 1+ defense before the enemy attack you, but your foe will usually just switch-out to a special attacker and destroy you, and Lickilicky can back-up it's physical prowess with a special attack as coverage. Miltank can still be used with Milk Drink + Heal Bell + Return/Body Slam + Curse + Scrappy, but that set is already listed, and is still somewhat outclassed by SubCurser Lickilicky, still, it's not creative, and other Curse sets are totally outclassed by the listed on the web. 5. Even when it's listed on the web, Punishment should not be used on offensive sets without Choice Scarf, why? Simple; even when it's the unique physical move of Miltank to hit super effective to Ghost, it's just too weak without STAB, 60 is really low, and you can just use Rock Slide, who offer better general SE coverage, and had a nice flinch rate that Miltank can put on practice with it's high speed; or better, just use Scrappy. Now, why not on offensive sets? Simple: Nobody will setup on a offensive Miltank ever in it's live, because Miltank hits hard enough to make it not a good idea, and even if they do (2+), Return is still doing more damage to anything most of the time, and Rock Slide/Fighting moves offer better coverage than Punishment, and if you want to stop 4-6+ sweeps; know what, you will not, 4-6+ sweeps most of the time are by hands of some Attack + Defense, or Attack + Speed, a 4+ foe is still being more damaged by Return, and a 6+ will not being damaged good enough, or will just outspeed you and destroy you. 6. Heal Bell, mmm... this's relative, you can use this move on almost any Miltank set, but actually, you should not use it with Sap Sipper; most of the time, you'll want Sap Sipper to absorb Spore or Sleep Powder, and that doesn't make a great synergy, but even then is usable with Sap Sipper, but you should use other ability with Heal Bell if that's possible. Oh, yeah, if you use Heal Bell, have an attack, otherwise Audino will outclass you the 99% of time, why? Simple, Audino sports better special defense, almost the same physical defense, and strictly support Pokémon tends to switch a lot, so, Regenerator is almost a better ability for the job, and for Heal Beal stuff, you don't need speed at all, and last-ditch with Heal Bell is not the best of the plans. Also, mostly reserved to Heal Bell sets should be more focussed on physical defense, because if you want a special defensive or balanced defensive Heal Bealler, Lickilicky is a lot better at the job as he sports higher bulk and a bit more of attack (and even Wish). 7. Drink Milk is it's niche move, a nice move, should be considered always on any Miltank set. And about items/possible styles of play... ... Choice Band/Life Orb: If you want to spam Double-Edge/Return/Body Slam and not fear possible Ghost Switch-in's... well, don't do that, Stoutland and Kangaskhan are better at the job because they put more attack on the table. That's pretty much all about it, if you insist, use it with Sap Sipper and aim for the boost (you'll end being a faster, yet, weaker Bouffalant with Sap Sipper), or with Scrappy with max. investment on speed, as the extra speed of Miltank is it's unique selling point with Scrappy + Choice Band/Life Orb. Oh, yeah, don't use it with Punishment, either, reasons were told before. Lefovers Bulky Attacker: 252 Attack / 252 HP (or spend something on it's special defense), it's not a bad idea, a set like that should have Milk Drink, and maybe a Substitute. It's not really outclassed or even listed, Miltank may have less attack, but it's speed, abilities, and Milk Drink are good selling points against it's competition for the slot. Tauros, Kangaskhan, and Stoutland offer good competition for the place of fast bulky attacker, so, consider what you want to outspeed for the selection, and how much you need Milk Drink and it's abilities into the mix. Bouffalant and Lickilicky offers competition, too, as they have better bulk and attack, so, just use Milktank over them for it's speed and maybe the Sap Sipper against Lickilicky and Milk Drink against Bouffalant. Consider Bulldoze/Rock Tomb, ease prediction on a wonderful way. All-Out Attacker: Use Tauros (Intimidate/Sheer Force), Kangaskhan (Scrappy niche), or Stoutland (Scrappy niche), they are better at all-out attacking with Silk Scarf/Normal Gem. And if speed doesn't matter too much, Lickilicky and Bouffalant outclass it. Support: For paralysis, use Stoutland, he can parashuffle, Miltank can't. For Cleric, just read what I said about Heal Bell. For Stealth Rock, use the Mootility already listed on the web. For Toxic (on any set), she's ok. For Sunny Day setter is also ok with Sap Sipper, as she can defend it's team from the possible powered Grass-types from the opponent and possible secret SunnyBeamers, and with Thick Fat can help to cover your grassies from Ice and Fire; Rain Dance and Sandstorm by other hand are not ok, Miltank doesn't offer nothing for rain teams nor Sand teams, and she's just generating herself a new weakness with Rain Dance, and self-damage with Sandstorm. Tank: Protip: Miltank may looks like a tank because the "tank" part of it's name, but she's not a great tank, still, you can use Stall sets with certain success as Miltank have Milk Drink, but Lickilicky usually does the same job better, unless you need the slot that Protect on Lickilicky needs to be used, then Miltank may have a used over him. Is something to consider on stall teams as all-going-for wall, it's not that bad at walling physical attacks, or even both with just Curse. Rebember it's weak to Taunt/Figthers, so, a partner who can handle team is a must for the moo. Gimnnickys: Reversal + Endure is there. Bide is also there against some Choice Banders, but you may want Encore support with it. Fling is there if you think you can make a use of it. Gyro Ball is there for Curse Sets (protip: don't use Curse on Miltank). Attrack/Captivate may also work, at least for force switchs, use them with hazards. Well, that ends with my comparative and as a review from it's possibles sets and stuff, if someone can make use of it and make a better set it could be great. But as well, I also do have a set for the moo. Revenge Cleanner MooK1 (F) @ Choice Scarf Trait: Scrappy EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant / Jolly Nature - Punishment - Double-Edge / Return - Earthquake - Heal Bell / Toxic / Thunder Wave Tired of being sweeped by random stuff with boosting moves? Tired of being sweped by Gorebyss and Huntail? Tired of being sweeped all the day and night by Altaria? Fear no more! Our favorite Cow is ready to make them suffer for KOed it's friends. A single Shell Smash is a 6+ Boost, making Punishment as strong as STAB Double-Edge, but without recoil, and Miltank have the bulk to take a hit even if it doesn't OHKO right of the bat, she rarely OHKO things, that's way you have to use her as cleanner and ocassional revenge KOer, because you'll need previous damage from it's partners in order to work, for example Gorebyss needs 43% of previous damage to being OHKOed by Miltank, so, she works better on offensive teams who can trully damage things for her, but she's also able to work on stall ones, as hazards + burns + badly poisons tends to have the same effect. Double Edge over Return for the needed extra damage, but Return can be used if you want to survive more against priority users or if you're planning a sweep with Baton Pass. Earthquake for Rocks/Steels/Electrics. And for the last slot, Miltank can also be used as a fast cleric who can support it's team on mid game, and prepare it's clean for the end, and revenge on whatever weakneeded enough thing, but if you think you don't need a cleric, you can use Toxic for cripple a coming wall, or Thunder Wave a sweeper you can't stop by yourself. A good point for Miltank is it's bulky, even without investment, Miltank can still resist a boosted attack or two, so, don't be too shy on switch-in her if necessary, and take in acccount she takes priority really well. About the EVs and nature, Adamant is really a need, but if you're really desesperate to outspeed 2+ Torterra, 1+ Sawsbuck, Haunter, Charizard, and Raichu, you may want to put it Timid, but seriously, you're better with Adamant most of the time. She can also work as a sweeper if you Baton Pass her a Sword Dance, as almost not scarfer or priority will stop her from sweep (you should consider put some EVs on it's HP if you're planning a pass), but even with a Sword Dance, she fails at OHKO some threats like Luxray, Articuno, Musharna, or Throh, so, she needs of hazard support and some previous damage on them before planning to pass her a Sword Dance. __________________ I love Caterpie, he's a so adorable little bug! ♥ (Also, sorry for my English, I'm still learning it and I'm not a native speaker). Last edited by Nyara; Jan 28th, 2013 at 5:47:24 AM.

Jan 28th, 2013, 5:14:43 AM	#40
Starships aurora x shadow lugia <3~ Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 262 skylight on IRC Mentor	This one is also offensive but a little different because it has a lot more power and is generally guarantees more OHKOs instead of relying on damage rolls. Miltank (F) @ Choice Band Trait: Scrappy EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 Def Adamant Nature - Ice Punch - Toxic - Double-Edge - Earthquake Double-Edge is for the power to guarantee OHKO's as opposed to Return or Body Slam. With maximum speed it'll be speed-tied with everything else base 100 including the powerhouse Charizard and hopefully killing it (also, Choice Scarf Sawk outspeeds and kills, however Choice Band Sawk is outsped and OHKO'd by Miltank). Adamant guarantees maximum power and allows said moves to OHKO more often. EQ is for things such as Garbodor which it can 2HKO, can OHKO Bastiodon w/ Sturdy broken, 2HKO Golem and allows you to even get past Misdreavus, with an 88% chance of 2HKOing it rather than just 3HKOing on the other offensive set. Toxic is for things you predict are switching in that you don't have the power to otherwise take and likely won't necessarily enjoy getting Toxic'd, such as Alomomola, Tangela, Regirock, Musharna and so on, allowing you to switch out to a more appropriate Pokemon to take them on. Ice Punch allows you to 2HKO Torterra, OHKO Jumpluff, and so on. Opponents will generally be cautious when sending out their Pokemon and likely won't sleep you immediately due to being cautious about Sap Sipper, nor will rush to use Fire and Ice attacks on you, allowing you to take advantage of that and hurt the opponents easier. Scrappy is because Punishment wasn't really necessary as it doesn't do much that Double Edge doesn't, and due to Choice Band it isn't really safe to stay in against Mushy due to lack of recovery. What is thought to "counter" this pokemon? Most physical walls that have eviolite or aren't hurt that much by Double-Edge (below are some mons that come to mind that aren't really hurt by Miltank, however are not pleased when Toxic is thrown at them). ... 252+ Atk Choice Band Miltank Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 102-121 (30.63 - 36.33%) -- 58.81% chance to 3HKO 252+ Atk Choice Band Miltank Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 195-229 (36.51 - 42.88%) -- 98.29% chance to 3HKO 252+ Atk Choice Band Miltank Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Regirock: 140-166 (38.46 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 252+ Atk Choice Band Miltank Double-Edge vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Musharna: 186-220 (42.95 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO How can this pokemon benefit its teammates? It's generally another strong mon to use. It doesn't need to set up to kill a lot of NU mons that aren't physical walls and OHKOs most things that outspeed it. Due to the unpredictability of what it runs you can more easily trick your opponents and hit them hard with power, while they'll likely expect another move. While it dies fast if it abuses its STAB like Rapidash (and the departed Emboar) it's still powerful and can do a lot more damage than the other sets posted thus far can do, and can definitely be a surprise to opponents which is always a benefit. __________________

Jan 28th, 2013, 5:22:48 AM	#41
Nyara Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 288 Chile > Santiago	Timid Scrappy Kangaskhan 252 Atk / 252 Spd is still superior as pure-Choice Bander against Adamant Scrappy Miltank, who sports higher attack (289 vs 284) and speed (able to outspeed max. investment neutral natured 100 base speed all the time), and also had Double-Edge, Earthquake, and Toxic (and Crunch/Sucker Punch in exchange for Ice Punch). And had more HP to take recoil from Double-Edge, had superior special bulk, and similar physical bulk. The unique Miltank's sell point as Choice Bander is being a midpoint between Choice Bander Tauros and Kangaskhan; bulkier than Tauros, faster than Kangaskhan, but you need Timid for outspeed Timid Kangaskhan, so, my suggestion is still use Timid if for use Choice Bander Miltank, in that way at least avoid the outclassing. __________________ I love Caterpie, he's a so adorable little bug! ♥ (Also, sorry for my English, I'm still learning it and I'm not a native speaker).

Jan 28th, 2013, 5:36:19 AM	#43
Nyara Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 288 Chile > Santiago	Well, that's true, actually, if you want to sell the special bulk, less chance to lost 2HKOs, and the possibility to outspeed 100 base speed neutral natured for being able to maybe take an extra priority attack and for the surprise factor, then it's ok, actually, Miltank with a Choice Band hits really hard, but I still suggest that offensive Miltanks needs of too much support to handle physical walls, or needs of Sword Dance Baton Pass to really shine as sweepers or offensive juggernaut, but even then, Miltank can still score a K.O or two with minimal support with a Choice Band, and the surprise factor helps, as Miltank can fill too many roles. __________________ I love Caterpie, he's a so adorable little bug! ♥ (Also, sorry for my English, I'm still learning it and I'm not a native speaker).

Jan 28th, 2013, 8:07:29 AM	#44
Punchshroom Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 440	As mentioned earlier, Miltank's main selling point is its surprise value, unpredictability and versatality, while having a good balance of stat placement to go many ways about it. However, Miltank's greatest downfall is its inability to instantly threaten or punish an opponent for predicting incorrectly, unlike Samurott or 100% health Braviary. Thick Fat variants can survive the respective hits but need status as opposed to sheer power to threaten them; Scrappy variants are better off Toxicing incoming ghosts (Scrappy merely affords mono-Normal coverage). Sap Sipper variants are likely the most threatening of the bunch, but needs the boost to actually start doing real damage or not be inferior to other Normal-type sweepers (The bulk is definitely a thing, but lack of defensive investment and off-the-bat attacking strength can be evident). __________________ Warstories: Risk or Reward? Riolu be Shufflin' Serving them HOT!! Playtime's Over! Double Commentary for Double Battle?! Double Feature! Deluged Dimensions! Hazards Matter! Shorts: Beating Whitney at her own game! Challenge Cup Status Shenanigans Punchshroom: disagreement leads to resistance, which leads to conflict, which leads to battle, which leads to WARSTORIIEEESSSS!!!

Jan 28th, 2013, 11:54:58 AM	#46
BROStime Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 348 First they ignore you, then laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.	Miltank @ Life Orb Ability: Scrappy EVs: 40 HP \| 252 Atk \| 216 Spd Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -SAtk) - Body Slam / Return - Earthquake - Substitute - Milk Drink This set is really good, hitting the whole meta neutral due to Scrappy, this set really benefit spikestacking teams, as this will help Miltank force through walls late game as it hit quite hard with Body Slam/Return. Stealth Rock + Spikes will help this set out a lot as 3HKO's becomes 2HKO's, and 2HKO's become OHKO's which make, Roselia and Garbodor excellent partners due to their ability to lay Spikes and resist fighting. Golurk is another good teammate for Miltank as Golurk can beat Regirock which Miltank has huge problems with. The moveset is easy, Body Slam is prefered as it has a nice 30% chance to paralyze, and it also let's Miltank benefit from Substitute more, Return might be chosen over Body Slam as it hs higher BP. Milk Drink is there for longivity and works excellent with Substitute + Life Orb. The EV's is to outspeed max speed Haunter so it can KO with Body Slam/Return before Haunter can Sludge Bomb/HP Fighting as this will hurt pretty bad, rest is put into HP for some bulk. Pokemon that can wall and possibly beat Miltank is mostly Defensive walls like Regirock, SubBU Braviary, Alomomola etc. So pokemon like Ludicolo and Samurott is great teammates for Miltank. __________________ VM / PM me for a BW2 team rate!

Jan 28th, 2013, 4:21:42 PM	#47
Shuckleking87 Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 197 New Jersey	Miltank @Leftovers/Life orb/Lum Berry/Salac Berry (Someone please try this one) Ability: Scrappy/Sap sipper 40 HP/ 252 Attack/ 216 Speed Jolly (+Speed -SA) Double Edge/ Return Earthquake/Punishment Psych Up Milk Drink This set is very similar to the MooFensive set and, honestly is a little combination of all of the previous sets. What makes this stand out is Psych up. One of the greatest troubles when I or my opponent uses miltank is its vulnerability for getting set up on. Psych Up is a great way to keep pokes in place. The only boosting moves that is semi difficult for it to handle are dragon dances, but if miltank can live an +1 or (Altaria, fraxure, and dragonair are the 3 main DD users, and can live all attack at +1 except jolly life orb fraxure, psych up and ko back. These pokes are not used that often, though, and is not much of a worry. It will beat bulk up braviary and Floatzel, though it will not break through gurdurr or throh. Or any fighting poke, really. It can do damage to Sawk, as it will do 61-72% with double edge/leftovers while outspeeding all non-scarefed sawk varients. Also an excellent check to just about all calm mind users (minus unburdened drifblim and possibly swoobat), as it can psych up to not take much damage, and return with a double edge or punishment. Punishment would primarily be needed for musharna and all ghosts. Earthquake is for steel and rock types that would take nothing from miltank otherwise, though earthquake will not be doing a whole lot either way. This set's ev spread is to outspeed positive 95 speed pokes. Max speed won't really do that much besides speed tie with Charizard and outspeed Basculin, though it is a prefectly acceptable alternate. Rest of EV's in attack and the leftover in HP for obvious reasons. This set tries to unite the ability to hit hard with STAB, hit ghosts, rock and steels, and not be set up fodder. With this set, status will be a problem, so Lum berry may not be such a bad idea. Double Edge can scare people with the recoil, so return can be used instead. While body slam has the nice 30% chance of paralysis, it is not strong enough for this powerful cow. Life orb can be used to buff up this cow, however, double edge and life orb recoil isnt that great, so I would suggest return with life orb. Sap Sipper is an interesting option on this set, as I was really torn as to what was more important for Miltank, and the attack boost is a big plus. Someone please try Salac berry. Just please. Hopefully it can do wonders. __________________ CAP ASB Team http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=709 "NU is a waist of time" http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nu10791583 I love to fly http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-nu12994598

Jan 29th, 2013, 1:59:06 AM	#49
Constantinipple Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 115 SO I HERD YOU LIKE MUDKIPZ	You're commenting on us using punishment on non-scarf Miltank, but why are you using it? Just Gorebyss? okay, with one SS boost Punishment gets the power equivalent to Double-Edge, but would you still use it? Being choicelocked into a non stab base 60 power is something that you do not want.. besides, Gorebyss isn't even that common.. I think you shouldn't use it on choice sets. edit: now that i think about it, most Musharnas won't KO Miltank straight away, they will just be greedy and get some more CM boost, and once Punishment is shown, its already to late. Last edited by Constantinipple; Jan 29th, 2013 at 2:32:01 AM.

Jan 29th, 2013, 4:53:58 AM	#50
Nyara Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 288 Chile > Santiago	Taking in account you need your opponent to get greedy to actually check it, that's what I call a shaky check, you - can - check if you're lucky enough with the rolls/opponent's stupidness/magic/previous support, I guess that works for the overall number of the players, but I could rather run a counter if Musharna is really a concern, as most of the time, Miltank will don't do too much to the cause. About the Choice Scarf set, it's also aimed for a sort of boosters, the best examples are the Shell Smahers, but you can also use her against a Dragon Dancer, or Rock Polish users and you'll do OK with the enough support, after all, you'll switch-in and out too much with a Scarf, and lost more of your precious HP with Double Edge without need hurts, and with a Choice Scarf you can outspeed some 1+ and 2+ without problem, at difference of Choice Band. Also, there's no need to extra coverage, so, an anti-sweeps move comes handy on something who can't be outspeeded at all. __________________ I love Caterpie, he's a so adorable little bug! ♥ (Also, sorry for my English, I'm still learning it and I'm not a native speaker).