The Next Best Thing

[DTC]

Okay, discussion has died down so we are moving on to the voting stage. Vote for your favorite set.

[Majestic Electric]

BROstime

[Constantinipple]

BROStimes set looks cool, substitute seems like a good idea

[Molk]

BROStimes


how did i not think of that before smh

[FireMage]

ShuckleKing87

This set is really intruiging, Bulk up Braivary setting up in your face? Copy the boosts - recover off the damage and hit it hard. CM Muharna attempting to hit you for fuckton of damage? Psych up those SP.Def boosts and strike back with Punishment.

[Aasgier]

ShuckleKing87

Looks like a great set. You can hit a lot for at least neutral damage, and prevent Set-up sweepers from doing much by copying their boosts and recovering off the damage you might take. Problem is that it might be a tad situational.

[shnen]

hmm, between brostime and starships but I think I'll go for starships, toxic is very good for it and it can basically kill most things aside from the walls which can be toxiced

[EBeast]

BROStime

The sets I considered to get the vote were Bros's and starships's. Brotime's took the edge because it took advantage of Milk Drink, something that sets it apart from Kangaskhan. Substitute is pretty neat and I've seen Annoyer destroy FLCL with SubDrink Miltank before. Its nice to be able to easily it up thanks to Miltank's good bulk and along with TSpikes from the likes of Garbodor/Roselia it can give a lot of its bulky opponents a hard time.

[Nyara]

BROStime.

EBeast said mostly all, but I never liked the starships's set at all, Miltank should use whatever she had in it's hands, and Life Orb is using Milk Drink is a clear example of that. I also liked the EV spread, as Miltank really needs of more bulky in order to being a threat, and without investment the bulk of the moo is kinda avarage at best, and she doesn't need more speed at all, with outspeeding Haunter she's ok. Also, Body Slam is a nice attack, you can even beat some walls with just that, as you can now aim for the paralysis, even Alomomola have problems to wall a Miltank with Body Slam (you sub. when she Protect or Wish - or whatever, she can't break your substitute with one hit -, Body Slam when use Wish, you'll paralyze her soon or later, and you'll gonna start winning extra turns, outstalling her), and can cause troubles to Tangela with a substitute up if Body Slam paralyze, as a paralyzed Tangela can't do too much against Miltank, she will win free turns, heal the damage, avoid it's status, and will force him to Syntesis or Giga Drain until outstall it's PP or risk him to the fast K.O with a critical hit or multi-paralyze turns.

[scorpdestroyer]

BROStime and his set looks pretty cool

[CBTerrakion]

Shuckleking87

[Ewil]

Shuckleking87

This Miltank becomes a sort of bait for the most part of the boosting sweepers and can do a lot of damage even without boost(s). Good set !

[DTC]

I was holding off on closing voting because there were not many votes, but this has dragged on for a bit too long now.

Tallies:
BROStime - 6
Shuckleking - 5
starships - 1

Congratulations BROStime!

Next Pokemon:

Ludicolo!

Some things to consider:

• What is thought to "counter" this pokemon?
• Is there anyway to bypass this pokemon's so-called "counters?
• What moves are seldom used on this pokemon, but have the most upside?
• What niches can this pokemon potentially fill in the current metagame?
• What opposing pokemon does this pokemon do well against?
• How can this pokemon benefit it's teammates?

[NfskMjmMal]

Ludicolo @ Leftovers / Life Orb / Red Card
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Swords Dance / Seed Bomb / Ice Punch
- Waterfall

This set really appreciates (Damp Rock) rain support from another teammate, but can still function fine without it in a decent situation. In the rain, and sometimes without the rain, Ludicolo often forces switches and can Substitute. Fighting coverage works excellently with Ludicolo's STABs. Due the Substitute, Swords Dance, and no Rain Dish, I think Leftovers is the preferred option, as Life Orb recoil with Substitute racks up and the power boost isn't as necessary after a Swords Dance. However, if more coverage is used instead of Swords Dance, Life Orb may be viable. Weather is relatively uncommon in NU, so it's not that difficult to get the weather up and be able to safely switch in Ludicolo with many rain turns left.

You probably think Red Card is a really weird option for an item. However, even with rain, Ludicolo is somewhat hard-pressed to get both a Substitute and a Swords Dance up because once Ludicolo comes in, the opponent can switch out to a threat, giving Ludicolo only one free turn. However, if that threat is sent out by the Red Card, it's unlikely that another threat will be randomly sent in, possibly giving Ludicolo a second free turn. In an ideal situation, which doesn't seem too unreasonable, Ludicolo comes in during the rain, threatening the opponent out. Ludicolo Substitutes on the switch as a threat to Ludicolo is sent in. Then, you Swords Dance as they break your Substitute and are sent out by the Red Card. This switch is unfavorable for them, so as they switch out, you Substitute again, which leaves you at +2 Attack, +2 Speed, and behind a Substitute going into the next turn.

[FLCL]

Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Modest Nature
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Substitute

Substitute is a great move for offensive Ludicolo since it eases prediction and allows it to make good use of its top-notch coverage options. You no longer have to guess if Skuntank or Sawsbuck is going to switch into your Giga Drain while you're up against an opposing Water-type, and Alomomola can no longer tank a hit and cripple you with Toxic. Ludicolo forces so many switches, so using Substitute can take full advantage of those turns. With a Modest nature, Ludicolo still hits hard enough even if it doesn't have the Life Orb boost. The Speed EVs allow it to outpace Timid Exeggutor.

[Leafshield]

SubPunch Ludicolo? Huh, never thought of that one.

Set Name: The SubSeed Tango
Ludicolo @ Leftovers
Trait: Rain Dish
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpD / 252 SpA
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Hydro Pump

This set should be used after your hazards are up on the field, as this set is meant to force as many switches as possible. You switch in on something normal Ludicolo scares away, and then set up a substitute from there. Then, the annoying ensues. Poison damage is a bitch to deal with, which is only intensified by the fear of a naturally powerful Hydro Pump and the fact that Ludi is regaining tons of health constantly. Predict a switch, then Hydro Pump or Toxic depending on the opponent's team. I see a lot of potential in this set, because I've always thought Ludicolo had the potential to be an effective wall.

[scorpdestroyer]

Ludicolo @ Choice Specs
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
-Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Surf / Toxic
-Giga Drain

I don't know why Specs Ludicolo is listed under Other Options in Smogon's Analysis, honestly it was the second thing I thought of other than the LO variant that everybody uses. Hydro Pump is very spammable in the rain, since it 2HKOs even the bulkiest of special walls in the rain after SR, most notably Regice and Lickilicky, while just falling short of the guaranteed 2HKO against Specially Defensive Vileplume and Alomomola. Probably the only wall that avoids the 2HKO is Roselia, who is dispatched by Ice Beam. Ice Beam and Giga Drain are amazing coverage moves, all combining to hit all of NU for neutral damage. Surf is a reliable late game STAB if you can't afford to miss Hydro Pump. Toxic is another option just marvellous at catching opposing bulky Ludicolo off guard on the switch trying to wall your Ludicolo, since the only real counter to this guy is bulky Ludicolo, however it comes at the price of switching more often and having to rely on Hydro Pump's shaky accuracy.

Because of this set's sheer power and speed under rain, it can function both as a wallbreaker and a sweeper to some extent. The EVs are standard for a specs Pokemon, and Modest because it already outspeeds all relevant, non-boosted opponents in the rain.

...

---

252+ SpA Choice Specs Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Lickilicky in rain: 280-330 (66.03 - 77.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Regice in rain: 163-193 (44.78 - 53.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola in rain: 214-252 (40.07 - 47.19%) -- 2.34% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 2HKOs after SR and 2 layers of Spikes

252+ SpA Choice Specs Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 356-422 (66.66 - 79.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Roselia: 146-174 (48.02 - 57.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Choice Specs Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. +2 240 HP / 0 SpD Musharna in rain: 198-234 (45.72 - 54.04%) -- 98.05% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The only sets this Ludicolo can't dent are other bulky Ludicolos if it isn't running Toxic, so it's best if this Ludicolo has teammates to punch a few holes first. Specs Ludicolo can then waltz in when the opponent's bulky Ludi is weakened enough, at about 40% health, for the OHKO.

Hazard support turns some 3HKOs into 2HKOs, and are really helpful in general.

[FireMage]

Ludicolo @ Expert Belt
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
-Hydro Pump / Suf
-Ice Beam
-Surf / Rain Dance
-Giga Drain

Because of Ludi's coverage, Expert Belt can be use to bluff a choice item or Damp Rock (if you're going to use RD). It's still hitting hard even when Life orb isn't being used It's a great set in which you can also add additional coverage options such as Focus Blast or a hidden power type.

I remember trying out SD Ludi once before - It was an alright experience

[NfskMjmMal]

Maybe we should take a vote now?

[DTC]

Originally Posted by Fat NfskMjmMal

Maybe we should take a vote now?

I agree.

Vote on your favorite set so it can be featured in the second post!

[WhiteDMist]

FLCL

Outside of Rain Dance, I've found Substitute to have the most overall benefits for Ludicolo in general. Status tends to be the main way to wear down Ludicolo, so that's one of its checks somewhat answered for.

[celever]

FLCL

I would have voted leafshield, is rain dance was over hydro pump. Right now though, FLCL wins since its got that all important sub.

[JirachiCelebiMew]

FLCL because Sub allows Ludicolo to beat it's usual counters.

[Constantinipple]

yeah sub is awesome

FLCL

[WillSO]

FLCL