The Next Best Thing

[Shurtugal]

With torment, the opposition can only have one attack to hit you with for it to work. For things like Keldeo, it has surf / icy wind / hydro pump to hit you with, so unless your hitting a choice variant its not a good idea. Furthermore, most rain teams can easily (like scald toed) come in and encore / scald, while Lati@s can simply hit you hard. Idk I'd have to use it but it doesn't look that great on paper.

[Frochtejohgurt]

Taking on special threats is definitely not the crux of this set. Choice user, Walls and physical attacker are the things Gliscor deals with exellently. I only mention special threats like Rotom as a bonus, because it can handle them in certain situation taht other Gliscor sets could never dream of. Non choice Lati@s and Keldeo are certainly no business for this set or any Gliscor set.

[TheWaddleDeeKing]

But that's the problem. Sure it walls physical attackers but as soon as a special attacker comes in you're boned. I just don't see the point at all.

[Frochtejohgurt]

Originally Posted by Fat TheWaddleDeeKing

But that's the problem. Sure it walls physical attackers but as soon as a special attacker comes in you're boned. I just don't see the point at all.

You use Blissey but as soon as a physical attacker comes in you're boned.
You use Skarmory but as soon as a special attacker comes in you're boned.
You use Latios but as soon as a special wall comes in you're boned.
You use Dragonite but as soon as a physical wall comes in you're boned.

So, what's your point. Every Pokemon has something it can't handle.

Yeah, Gliscor was never good at walling special threats and will never be as good as an dedicated special wall obiviously. TormentGliscor has just the advantage, that it can handle some of the counters to regular Gliscor sets like Skarmory, Bronzong, defensive Rotom-W, Mamoswine and special Choice user while doing its usual annoying/stalling thing.

[Melee Mewtwo]

I think you can afford to drop Protect as Poison Heal makes up for the lost turn. Basically, Gliscor would come in and Sub on something it forces out, Torment the new guy and then spam Subs while slinging EQ and/or Toxics around.

[Shurtugal]

It's not fast enough to substitute though. It uses protect as a means of abusing Torment, I don't know that set looks really good if you use it right. I'm just not sure about replacing protect, seeings its not that fast to begin with.

[ala]

Actually if anything I would take out Substitute and use this: Protect/Torment/Toxic/Earthquake

With Toxic, you don't really need Taunt since you're immune to status and the poison will take care of anything that tries to heal, such as Blissey or Jellicent. Earthquake is for Steel types obviously. I still think the original Protect/Sub Gliscor without Torment is better though.

[Onicon]

In order to utilize Torment effectively the mon at question must not have combinations of weaknesses that may appear simultaneously on the opponents mon. That's why TormentTran (before Keldeo) was so effective, because Ground/Fighting was basicly non-existent because of the redundant coverage and Ground/Water only appears frequently on the underused Swampert and Gastrodon. Weakness to Water/Ice does not complement well with Torment. That said, you might get a shot at physical Landorus with HP Ice but after the release of Sheer Force he is not as predictable as it used to be.

[Cherub Agent]

Originally Posted by Fat Oyster

Skarm is definitely counter #1, but building a set specifically designed to bypass Skarm seems wasteful, since it prevents Gliscor from filling other important roles and if you really want to get rid of Skarmory, you could just use Magnezone or something. I think we'd be better off trying to find a set that fills a certain niche instead.

Actually, Gliscor can always beat Skarmory with the following set: Swords Dance, Facade, Earthquake, Taunt. You're preventing Skarmory from doing anything with Taunt, and Brave Bird damage is completely nullified with Poison Heal. Meanwhile, a +6 Facade 2HKOs Skarmory. This set also has perfect neutral coverage with the exception of Gengar in OU and is a lethal stallbreaker. And it maintains it's other important roles, so I'm afraid your statement is false.

Oh yeah obviously you can use Ice Fang instead of Facade, but it's only stronger against 4x weak targets (and resisted Facade is stronger than neutral Ice Fang) so you can use that if you don't want to be hard walled by Gengar. I prefer the massive power of Facade against more stuff though.

[TheWaddleDeeKing]

Originally Posted by Fat Frochtejohgurt

You use Blissey but as soon as a physical attacker comes in you're boned.
You use Skarmory but as soon as a special attacker comes in you're boned.
You use Latios but as soon as a special wall comes in you're boned.
You use Dragonite but as soon as a physical wall comes in you're boned.

So, what's your point. Every Pokemon has something it can't handle.

Yeah, Gliscor was never good at walling special threats and will never be as good as an dedicated special wall obiviously. TormentGliscor has just the advantage, that it can handle some of the counters to regular Gliscor sets like Skarmory, Bronzong, defensive Rotom-W, Mamoswine and special Choice user while doing its usual annoying/stalling thing.

But I don't get what you're accomplishing with Torment Gliscor. As soon as Gliscor comes in any physical attacker is leaving. Who cares if you Torment the opponents special attacker on the switch? It's not like it's gonna matter. In theory that could always work to bring in an attacker to setup the following turn but its gimmicky at best with too many random variables to consider, like if your Pokemon that comes in on the hit is weak or resisted (even if it is resisted they'll just switch up moves to something more effective or hard switch out).

The reason TormentTran was effective because even special attackers had only one move that would normally hit for neutral or better. Physical attackers used to rarely carry more than one way to hit Heatran hard, though honestly that's kind of gone out the window now with Terrakion, Landorus and Keldeo all hitting hard regardless.

[Melee Mewtwo]

Well I don't really remember the Torment mechanics even though I used to use it a lot, but IIRC you can't use the move you use the move the turn you were Tormented even if the Torment came after. This means that with the free Sub from the switch as a buffer you can prevent them from using the same move after they popped your Sub which should mean that you can easily grab another Sub as not much actually packs two moves to hit Gliscor with.

I agree that Taunt can be dropped although being setup fodder for Spike setters kinda sucks.

[mcdanger]

tormented makes it so you cant use the same move the next turn. I agree with waddle, as special attackers are going to come right in and, while gliscor has good resistance, most pokemon carry 2 moves that can hit him hard, as comparied to heatran, where most pokemon only have 1, so their forced out, or heatran toxic/burn stalls them, which gliscor can`t do effectively. That plus he would need sub and protect to make it work, leaving you with either toxic to fully use it and being taunt bait, or earthquake and not getting the full use out of it.

[Melee Mewtwo]

I just tested Torment (not the set) and it does lock you out of the move even if it was slower. Sub works just fine then as long as the OP can't hit you with anything else worthwhile. (kinda a bad metagame for Gliscor)

[youngjake93]

I still think Stealth Rock+Struggle Bug sounds great on paper. I haven't been playing OU to test though, but you guys keep talking about special attackers coming in on Gliscor. Struggle Bug on the switch, then switch out. Automatic free turn when they have to switch! All the things you could do with a free turn...

[Melee Mewtwo]

Except struggle bug has such low damage output that the special attackers would be far more crippled with a Toxic poison that they just can't switch out of.

[mcdanger]

Originally Posted by Fat Melee Mewtwo

I just tested Torment (not the set) and it does lock you out of the move even if it was slower. Sub works just fine then as long as the OP can't hit you with anything else worthwhile. (kinda a bad metagame for Gliscor)

Ya with all the rain, gliscor cant effectively wall alot like BW1 where it was sand dominated. I think the tormented set can work, it would be effective against guys like terrakion, rotom wash, choice users, etc. but I feel it overall wont be effective enough to use it.

[youngjake93]

Originally Posted by Fat Melee Mewtwo

Except struggle bug has such low damage output that the special attackers would be far more crippled with a Toxic poison that they just can't switch out of.

The thing is that you want them to switch out of it... You use it on a hazard stacking team to force switches+hazard damage+gain momentum.
Toxic on the other hand... would do 6% damage to a special attacker that you have to switch out from, yipee.
The little bit of extra damage is just a bonus against Celebi and Starmie.

[TheWaddleDeeKing]

The problem with racking up entry hazard damages (also known as stall teams) is that they are almost impossible to use effectively in BW2. There are just too many hard hitters to make stall an extremely *effective play style anymore. Stuggle Bug doesn't stop Pokemon that can KO effectively at all. It's an interesting option certainly, though it's something that really only works once and then the opponent understands the strategy.

EDIT: You also have to forgo one of your moves, and Gliscor really prefers to have two coverage moves or one coverage move and Toxic. It'd need a damn good moveset to be effective, since all of Gliscors counters outspeed and therefor U-turn would be a shitty option.

EDIT2: Also, Forretress gets Struggle Bug too. Just sayin'.

*Also I am in no way saying stall can't be utilized, but when you look at the amount of succesful stall teams to the amount of unsuccesful ones the ratio is not in stall's favor. Certainly it takes practice and skill to get it right, and if you can, more power to you.

[alexwolf]

Originally Posted by Fat Shurtugal

I agree, in fact, I actually have a Landorus-I set I use when I'm bored:

@
Trait: Sand Force
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
- Stealth Rock
- Imprison
- Earthquake / Stone Edge
- Explosion

It makes a nice suicide lead. Imprison cancel's moves known by the user, which means you can always seal the move Stealth Rock. This works great alongside Pokemon like Dragonite. Most people would think this set is outclassed by Azelf; however, they would be wrong. This set can actually prevent TTar from getting up rocks and it can set up rocks itself, as well as never losing to sand residual damage.

However, the introduction of BW2 has hampered this set a bit when SashSR Terrakion lead, but it still nabs those Explosion kills and it usually does work. Stone Edge is slashed with EQ just in case you hate those Gengar switch-ins.

Very intriguing idea! Can stop many common SR leads such as Hippo, Ttar, Deo-D (at least from laying SR), and Ferrothorn, while being unpredictable as fuck (meaning that nothing will try to Taunt or Magic Coat it and nothing will avoid to set-up SR if it walls you, aka they will surely waste a turn while you use Imprison). Sand Force EQ is nice to OHKO Ttar as well, and Explosion is Explosion.

[mcdanger]

Originally Posted by Fat youngjake93

The thing is that you want them to switch out of it... You use it on a hazard stacking team to force switches+hazard damage+gain momentum.
Toxic on the other hand... would do 6% damage to a special attacker that you have to switch out from, yipee.
The little bit of extra damage is just a bonus against Celebi and Starmie.

to sp defensive celebi struggle bug does 14.85-17.83% with gliscor as modest, 252 sp attack. Honestly your going to be better off uturning

0 Atk Gliscor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 196-232 (48.51 - 57.42%) -- 38.67% chance to 2HKO

so uturn is more viable, as it gets momentum faster then struggle bug, plus

-1 0 SpA Celebi Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 172-204 (48.58 - 57.62%) -- 3.13% chance to 2HKO

idk about everyone else but i use HP ice on celebi for thunderus, landorus, and, back when he was OU, tornadus switch ins and as for starmie

-1 252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 380-452 (107.34 - 127.68%) -- guaranteed OHKO

overall, struggle bug isnt worth it or viable in anyway

[Novaray]

Voting Period starts now, here are links to each set you can vote for:

TheWaddleDeeKing
hotcoldyay
Superpowerdude
SubakSupreme
HabibsHotDogs
Usatoday
mcdanger
Frochtejohgurt


For voting, just put the username of the person you wish to vote for in bold and a short 1 or 2 sentence explanation for why you chose that set. Voting will be open for 2 days! Feel free to VM or PM me any suggestions for the next test subject if you have any.

[Homeslice]

mcdanger
Only real set that has something set in stone it can differ itself from other gliscor sets. It's an excellent lead that can set up rocks and tailwind and u-turn out to pass the boost onto another teammate for two turns. It also includes Roost, which helps show its niche over Landorus.

[Manitary]

Usatoday

The only set I think it's worth mention. Without Swords Dance the damage output isn't that great but still dents many common pokémon, and if they can OHKO back you can U-Turn/switch out and still keep the Tailwind speed bost for two other turns

[alexwolf]

Superpowerdude

It was the only one that was worth voting for and it is a decent set. Taunt + U-turn is indeed a nice combo, and Gliscor offers a lot in Volt-turn teams.

[TheWaddleDeeKing]

lol I love how most of these are Rocks + U-turn

Anyways, HabibsHotDogs's set has got it right, or at the very least it's not in the current Gliscor analysis. Probably the only one I think got it right that's not gimmicky or outclassed, personally I find Tailwind hard to get anything out of it unless you devote your team to it.