Threats and counters

ChaiKnight · Jan 29th, 2013, 4:41:54 PM

Hello everyone. I'm quite new to Showdown, but I've played PO for quite some time. *braces for shitstorm*
I must say, UU is by far the best tier out there, and thank you community and staff for making this interesting.
I'm not sure I'll be allowed to post here, but here goes.

I'm sure everyone has this one threat that their team simply cannot deal with, and when we go to fix the flaw, we forget to incorporate it into the team as a whole, and a new threat opens up. What this thread is supposed to do is to make a huge list of *dun dun dun dun* Threats and their Counters! Yay!
You may of course cite the Smogon page, but it's more interesting to hear your stories of the revamps of your teams, what mons you were threatened by and what you did to deal with them.

For me, SubCM Raikou, CM Zapdos and Victini were major threats. I needed something to replace my lead Azelf to something actually useful.
I replaced him with RestTalk Snorlax to Whirlwind them out of their boosts, but I got wrecked quickly by the forced switches phazing caused, and I could only check them.
That meant that, in a hazards-based metagame, I needed to get Stealth Rock up again, and I wouldn't want to lose my only Steel-type (a Swords Dance/TW Cobalion).
I had used a SR Swampert earlier, and replaced my Snorlax with that. It worked beautifully, but Cobalion was not doing the best job.
Replacing him with a Bronzong meant that not only did I lose the EQ/EP-weakness, I also had a new dual-status inflicter that is still very usable for EQ'ing Raikou and Switch-in Victini, but also a lure for these to get in my Swampert.
I also had a Rhyperior (worst idea ever thanks to any kind of water/grass move) and a Roserade to tank some Grass-attacks (Shaymin was also a pain in the butt), but neither worked out because my team as a whole couldn't pull them off, and I had no resistances to Crobats or Honchkrows.
In conclusion: 3 widely used threats in UU made me redo 2 (if not more, but I don't really remember the details) of my Pokemon into:

Swampert @ Leftovers
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Gentle Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Hydro Pump

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Toxic
- Hypnosis
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball

tl;dr:

+

=

+

cim · Jan 29th, 2013, 7:00:24 PM

I don't see how Bronzong helps against any of those three Pokemon. Two of them have Fire attacks, and Raikou already loses to Swampert most of the time. Seems like you would want Swampert + something for HP Grass Zapdos (which usually also carries Heat Wave).

ChaiKnight · Jan 30th, 2013, 4:39:32 AM

Actually, Bronzong was to keep a steel type and to have at least a check to Roserade, Shaymin and so forth.

***kokoloko**** · Jan 30th, 2013, 7:40:25 AM

Could you fix the OP? The lack of spacing between paragraphs makes it kind of difficult to read... not to mention you talk about CM Zapdos??

I like the idea, but you should work on the execution.

ChaiKnight · Jan 30th, 2013, 12:00:28 PM

Hope it's at least a little better now, koko.
And yes, I used to see a lot of SubCM Zapdos. Don't ask me why, but it seemed like every other team had one.

And now is the part where we all join together to help me find out what to do to counter NP Togekiss. (Seriously, every time I see a Togekiss on a team I'm about to lose my sh!t) Doesn't this sound like fun? Yay!

cim · Jan 30th, 2013, 1:04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ChaiKnight

And yes, I used to see a lot of SubCM Zapdos. Don't ask me why, but it seemed like every other team had one.

Zapdos doesn't learn Calm Mind. Never has.

Best way to counter Togekiss? Substitute Zapdos. :) Other than that, SDef Rhyperior can handle some sets well.

ChaiKnight · Jan 30th, 2013, 1:22:58 PM

Oh, I must have gotten him confused with CM Raikou. Oh well. Sub Zapdos it is then.

But thanks, Cim. Now I'm considering swapping back to SR-roar Rhyperior, and making Bronzong DualScreen.

Explorer · Jan 30th, 2013, 7:40:22 PM

If you plan to use Bronzong as a Roserade Counter it should have either Psyshock or Gyro Ball, and ideally Sleep Talk (to work around Sleep Powder).

Also, on the Swampert set Waterfall > Hydro Pump so both attacks are physical and for better accuracy.

The most deadly version of Raikou, SubCM, can be taken care of with a fast Taunt or Whirlwind/Roar (Specially Bulky Hariyama, Steelix, etc.). The best tools to dealing with Victini are good prediction and a solid revenge killer.

ChaiKnight · Jan 31st, 2013, 7:36:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Explorer

If you plan to use Bronzong as a Roserade Counter it should have either Psyshock or Gyro Ball, and ideally Sleep Talk (to work around Sleep Powder).

Also, on the Swampert set Waterfall > Hydro Pump so both attacks are physical and for better accuracy.

The most deadly version of Raikou, SubCM, can be taken care of with a fast Taunt or Whirlwind/Roar (Specially Bulky Hariyama, Steelix, etc.). The best tools to dealing with Victini are good prediction and a solid revenge killer.

Right now it has Toxic, SR, EQ and Gyro Ball. Swampert is now a weird Protect, Roar, Hydro Pump and Earth Power. It's a somewhat surprising set that does really well. I know his SpA stat is lower, but it works well if the opponent doesn't count on special Swampert.
I deal with Raikou much better now, and Victini is, as you say, all prediction.

Explorer · Feb 1st, 2013, 6:55:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ChaiKnight

Right now it has Toxic, SR, EQ and Gyro Ball. Swampert is now a weird Protect, Roar, Hydro Pump and Earth Power. It's a somewhat surprising set that does really well. I know his SpA stat is lower, but it works well if the opponent doesn't count on special Swampert.
I deal with Raikou much better now, and Victini is, as you say, all prediction.

Most Victinis I see are CS with V-Create and Fusion Bolt, plus two other moves, which commonly include Psychic and Focus Blast. Energy Ball is also a decent option. Correct prediction can lead to a successful defeat with a Houndoom. If you switch it into V-Create (or another Fire-type move) and it is Choice-locked, you get a Flash Fire boost and can Pursuit-trap Victini.

Rohail17 · Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:28:38 PM

Bronzong + SpD Rhyperior is good because it can actually take an HP Grass from non Specs Zapdos. It can then OHKO with a Rock Blast

FlareBlitz · Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:37:40 PM

Hello, and welcome to the tier!

I would recommend joining IRC (#genvuu) and chatting to some of the regulars there. This thread has great potential and we would love to help you get acclimated to the tier and equip you with metagame-relevant knowledge.

Just make sure you stay away from user RT. He's a bad apple.

Jan 29th, 2013, 4:41:54 PM	#1
ChaiKnight Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 13 Denmark	Threats and counters Hello everyone. I'm quite new to Showdown, but I've played PO for quite some time. braces for shitstorm I must say, UU is by far the best tier out there, and thank you community and staff for making this interesting. I'm not sure I'll be allowed to post here, but here goes. I'm sure everyone has this one threat that their team simply cannot deal with, and when we go to fix the flaw, we forget to incorporate it into the team as a whole, and a new threat opens up. What this thread is supposed to do is to make a huge list of dun dun dun dun Threats and their Counters! Yay! You may of course cite the Smogon page, but it's more interesting to hear your stories of the revamps of your teams, what mons you were threatened by and what you did to deal with them. For me, SubCM Raikou, CM Zapdos and Victini were major threats. I needed something to replace my lead Azelf to something actually useful. I replaced him with RestTalk Snorlax to Whirlwind them out of their boosts, but I got wrecked quickly by the forced switches phazing caused, and I could only check them. That meant that, in a hazards-based metagame, I needed to get Stealth Rock up again, and I wouldn't want to lose my only Steel-type (a Swords Dance/TW Cobalion). I had used a SR Swampert earlier, and replaced my Snorlax with that. It worked beautifully, but Cobalion was not doing the best job. Replacing him with a Bronzong meant that not only did I lose the EQ/EP-weakness, I also had a new dual-status inflicter that is still very usable for EQ'ing Raikou and Switch-in Victini, but also a lure for these to get in my Swampert. I also had a Rhyperior (worst idea ever thanks to any kind of water/grass move) and a Roserade to tank some Grass-attacks (Shaymin was also a pain in the butt), but neither worked out because my team as a whole couldn't pull them off, and I had no resistances to Crobats or Honchkrows. In conclusion: 3 widely used threats in UU made me redo 2 (if not more, but I don't really remember the details) of my Pokemon into: Swampert @ Leftovers Trait: Torrent EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk Gentle Nature - Stealth Rock - Earthquake - Roar - Hydro Pump Bronzong @ Leftovers Trait: Levitate EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Atk Sassy Nature IVs: 0 Spd - Toxic - Hypnosis - Earthquake - Gyro Ball tl;dr: ++=+ Last edited by ChaiKnight; Jan 30th, 2013 at 11:56:54 AM.

Jan 29th, 2013, 7:00:24 PM	#2
cim dreams of ladybugs crushed forever Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5,369 five years here and i can't change my custom title :(	I don't see how Bronzong helps against any of those three Pokemon. Two of them have Fire attacks, and Raikou already loses to Swampert most of the time. Seems like you would want Swampert + something for HP Grass Zapdos (which usually also carries Heat Wave). __________________ i was nobody we're all a little bit strange, don't worry about it

Jan 30th, 2013, 7:40:25 AM	#4
*kokoloko i wanna dedicate this song to all the lettuce out there Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 2,382	Could you fix the OP? The lack of spacing between paragraphs makes it kind of difficult to read... not to mention you talk about CM Zapdos?? I like the idea, but you should work on the execution. __________________

Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:28:38 PM	#11
Rohail17 Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 145 Ontario, Canada	Bronzong + SpD Rhyperior is good because it can actually take an HP Grass from non Specs Zapdos. It can then OHKO with a Rock Blast __________________ Work: UU Sigilyph-On Site \| NU Ursaring-QC (2/3) Also an Amchecker. Congratulations, you're officially done reading my signature.

Feb 22nd, 2013, 9:37:40 PM	#12
FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy ending. Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 2,041 Somewhere on the edge of the bell curve	Hello, and welcome to the tier! I would recommend joining IRC (#genvuu) and chatting to some of the regulars there. This thread has great potential and we would love to help you get acclimated to the tier and equip you with metagame-relevant knowledge. Just make sure you stay away from user RT. He's a bad apple. __________________ Everything was beautiful. Nothing hurt. I'm back, baby. Look for me in 5th gen UU!

Jan 30th, 2013, 4:39:32 AM	#3
ChaiKnight Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 13 Denmark	Actually, Bronzong was to keep a steel type and to have at least a check to Roserade, Shaymin and so forth.

Jan 30th, 2013, 12:00:28 PM	#5
ChaiKnight Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 13 Denmark	Hope it's at least a little better now, koko. And yes, I used to see a lot of SubCM Zapdos. Don't ask me why, but it seemed like every other team had one. And now is the part where we all join together to help me find out what to do to counter NP Togekiss. (Seriously, every time I see a Togekiss on a team I'm about to lose my sh!t) Doesn't this sound like fun? Yay!

Jan 30th, 2013, 1:22:58 PM	#7
ChaiKnight Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 13 Denmark	Oh, I must have gotten him confused with CM Raikou. Oh well. Sub Zapdos it is then. But thanks, Cim. Now I'm considering swapping back to SR-roar Rhyperior, and making Bronzong DualScreen.

Jan 30th, 2013, 7:40:22 PM	#8
Explorer Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 363	If you plan to use Bronzong as a Roserade Counter it should have either Psyshock or Gyro Ball, and ideally Sleep Talk (to work around Sleep Powder). Also, on the Swampert set Waterfall > Hydro Pump so both attacks are physical and for better accuracy. The most deadly version of Raikou, SubCM, can be taken care of with a fast Taunt or Whirlwind/Roar (Specially Bulky Hariyama, Steelix, etc.). The best tools to dealing with Victini are good prediction and a solid revenge killer.