|Feb 8th, 2013, 8:04:30 PM||#1|
Join Date: Feb 2013
A Lethal Dos of moxie
A Lethal Dos of Moxie
Being a predominantly weather-less player, I was unused to building weather oriented teams, as such, this team is a rather novel venture for me, but so far, it has turned out as one of the better and more successful teams I have built to date. I had initially started out with a Sun team, but the pathetic offensive and defensive capabilities of Ninetales was a huge turn-off (Although Volcarona and Venusaur were beautiful during sweeps). I then attempted to venture into Rain teams, and after some tweaking, this is the final result. I cannot claim to be very experienced with Competitive battling, and my grasp of EVs and speed tiers is tenuous at best. As such I would like to humbly request you expert opinions and feedback to help bolster my team.
This team is a rather offensively oriented one, and my current win loss ratio is about 50~/8 counting instant forfeits. Without Further ado;
*Politoed @ Choice Specs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Politoed is your standard Spec'd Rain Inducer. With my weather career beginning with Ninetales, I was expecting a rather terrible and not particularly useful weather starter. Hence, it came as a pleasant surprise when I OHKO'd a full health Jirachi after a Spec boosted Hydro Pump in the rain. Politoed does ridiculous damage after specs in rain, and has surprising durability (At least relatively compared to ninetales). Focus Blast is there for a little extra oompf against Ferrothorn, Ice Beam for coverage against dragons, and HP grass is there for the odd Swampert and Gastrodon. EVs are for little extra bulk and more punch for my attacks. All in all, this little guy has be a huge boon to the success of the team, and has managed to pull his weight very well.
Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Draco Meteor
Ah, Latios. Depending on the opposing party's team, this guy pop in as an unexpected lead and drop in a D-Bomb, more often than not resulting in a OHKO. While the choice of Specs means that he can be revenge killed by scarfers, he usually pops in to take out crucial enemies with his massive damage. This Latios was not intended to be a sweeper, but in late game he can definitely pull one off against weakened attackers. However, I have a slight tendency to Sac him early (though he is able to take down about 1-2 others with him). Draco-Meteor is there to nuke unresisted foes, and is able to dish out ridiculous damage to most things. Psyshock is kind of there for filler, and I have not really used it too much. Thunderbolt is there for opposing waters and flyers. Surf is there for Pseudo-STAB in rain. EVs are pretty obviously for Maximum damage and speed.
Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Secret Sword
The avenger. Scarfed Keldeo is a wonderful revenge killer, with Hydro Pump and surf doing large amounts of damage in rain (although the latter has never been used), HP Ice shoots dragons out of the skies, and secret sword is a brilliant move that hits hard and is hard to wall. Maxed damage and speed are as usual for a revenge killer. Not much else can be said, but often times I catch the opponent off guard by leading with Keldeo.
Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
This guy is a little tricky. He works very well with Gyarados, but he hasn't been performing consistently. Focus Blast Grass Knot Thunderbolt and HP Ice all provide good coverage, and he can hit pretty hard. However, I am in a bit of a pickle between Scarf and Specs, as they both have their uses. Thundurus has let me down several times with his poor defences, but he has contributed many a time in taking down key counters for my main sweeper.
Dragonite @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Bulky Dragonite is here to abuse the rain. Thunder and Hurricane all have high damage and secondary effect chances that are augmented to 100% accuracy in rain, this is a huge boon, and while his damage output is not what it could be, his bulk is great in its ability to sponge hits. Leftovers and roost are for added survivability, and Extremespeed is a nasty surprise. Many attackers see specially oriented Dragonite and tend to forget that he has one of the best priority moves in the entire game. Many a close call has been won by this unorthodox set, and while his attack is slightly gimped, he still can output sufficient damage. Defence and HP EVs are for added resistance.*
Gyarados @ Lum Berry
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
- Dragon Dance
- Ice Fang
And here is the star of the show. Barring the terrible pun in the title, Gyarados is a fearsome sweeper. After a dragon dance, he can OHKO a large number of targets with his rain boosted STAB waterfall. Lum berry is there to ensure that he manages to boost without being crippled by status. The speedboost provided by dragon dance is essential, and stops Gyarados from being easily revenge killed. Earthquake hits a ton of stuff neutrally, and perfect accuracy is always great. Waterfall is pretty much the strongest in OU, and in rain it can dish out a very high damage output. With my original few weather less teams, MoxieMence was an amazing sweeper, with every kill giving him more offensive pressure. Moxie is a very intimidating ability (hohoho) and quite a substantial number of opponents forfeit after a +3. However, Salamence had a crippling weakness to stealth rock and priority ice shard, which deal 4x damage to it. Hence, with a rain team, Gyarados' wonderful typing gave him resistances to a few priority moves and no super effective weakness! Since falling out of usage in OU, not many teams prepare for the terrifying power of moxie Gyarados.
Ultimately, this team is by no means perfect, and while most of the team ignores spikes and toxic spikes, it has a major weakness in stealth rock. Whilst utilizing the team however, often times stealth rock was only set up late game, and while 25% off Gyarados is dangerous, many a time entry hazards did not actually affect the outcome of the game.
With more experimentation, I would like to add a more comprehensive threat list, and as of now, I can only name a few mons that have really given me trouble. Sturdy skarmory can take a boosted waterfall and whirlwind Gyarados away, and the odd red card has caused me to lose offensive momentum. If Gyarados and Politoed are both down for the count, wish protect Jirachi can force a stalemate with my choiced users, and proceed to hax.
Thank you for your time and I hope that the RMT community will be able to lend me their expertise.
|Feb 8th, 2013, 11:36:17 PM||#2|
Don't go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.
Join Date: Sep 2011
Hey there Dorua!
I really love your title--it's super creative! I can also attest to the sweeping potential of Moxie Gyarados, who can sweep entire teams flat. I'm a bit worried about the glaring weakness to Stealth Rock, though, especially since the only Pokemon not weak to rock are choiced (so they'll have to switch out more often into SR weak Pokemon). Latios doesn't really seem like it's doing anything in particular for your team, so I'd like to suggest a change to Fat Starmie. It's always good for super offensive teams to have pivot switches, and Starmie does just that. However, that's just scratching the surface. Starmie has the same set of resistances as Latios, allowing it to check big threats like Keldeo and Breloom. It's the most reliable spinner in the tier since it beats just about every spin blocker one on one. With reliable recovery, it can switch into somewhat powerful moves and shrug them off for later presence. Another benefit of using Starmie is that it lures in Ferrothorn and can fish for burns with Scald. This will greatly help Gyarados, as I'll explain later. Here's the most efficient set for your team:
The EVs outspeed Tornadus-I and everything below while retaining the most physical bulk possible. Psyshock disposes of fighting types and OHKOs Gengar while Scald is very useful for burning Pokemon that like switching into Starmie, like Tyranitar and Ferrothorn.
Next up, I noticed that every single one of your Pokemon is weak to a BoltBeam combination, which is common in quite a few coverage move sets. Agility Thundurus-T gets past both your Scarfs and deals SE damage to everything, which can be game over if your opponent has SR up. Although Gyarados and Thundurus-T make a good combination, I feel like Mamoswine would be a great replacement for Thundurus. With Thick Fat, it ignores BoltBeam and is a wonderful check to opposing Thundurus. It's also another answer to Chansey, who otherwise only fears Keldeo and Gyarados. Even more amazing is that it has access to Stealth Rock and priority, which your current team lacks (unboosted nonSTAB Calm Dragonite ESpeed is not powerful). Superpower and Earthquake both do solid damage to Ferrothorn, which otherwise walls this team to hell and back. Mamoswine fits this team's dynamic perfectly, and provides two important roles (SR + BoltBeam resistance) that keep you from being swept. Here's the set:
The EVs maximize power and speed. Outspeed Jolly Techniloom, Adamant Toxicroak, Timid Heatran, Adamant Dragonite, and Adamant Mamoswine. The moves are pretty self explanatory.
And lastly, I'd like to recommend a set change for Gyarados now that you have a fat Starmie. Try out a SubDD variant with Waterfall and Bounce, which provides the best two-move coverage and set-up opportunities. A burned Ferrothorn is like gold for Sub Gyarados, since it can set up quite a bit considering Power Whip cannot break your Substitute. Similarly, it's able to set up on a ton more Pokemon more consistently, such as Jellicent and Tentacruel who can very likely Scald burn twice (it happens like all the time, trust me). Substitutes also prevent revenge killers/Scarfers from taking you down after you kill whatever you set up on, meaning your sweeping potential increases almost exponentially. Bounce actually 3HKOs the majority of Ferrothorns at +1, which is something Earthquake can almost never do. Here's the set:
With Substitute, Gyarados can now use Leftovers, meaning sand damage won't be a factor any longer. The EVs outspeed Scarf Gothitelle/Magneton at +1, which is certainly an odd speed tier, but there really isn't anything else as relevant at that point.
And lastly, change your Dragonite's nature to Sassy. Calm decreases attack, but you're using ExtremeSpeed so that's not exactly the best idea.
And that's it! You have a pretty cool team. Good luck!~
[4:30:38 PM] Jimbon: i played gx duel academy so you could say i am obelisk blue master rank itachi master 1337 naruto king lv 45 elemental hero duece warrior
|Feb 8th, 2013, 11:40:48 PM||#3|
Cause you keep me coming back for more
Join Date: Jul 2012
And I feel a little better than I did before
Hey there! Neat team!
You've got a considerable amount of offense on this team, cool. One thing I that I think could be troubling is your defensive synergy. This is mainly due to the fact that you have 3 flying types and 3 water types. You also lack enough true offense to keep fast powerhouses like Scarf Latios / Terrakion at bay. Due to the fact that 2/3 of your team is choiced, defensive teams will certainly be a huge threat- you'll have trouble breaking SkarmBliss or FerroCent+Cruel cores commonly found in defensive Sand / Rain. You're also weak to hazards, since you have no way of preventing Deo-D from swtting SR in the beginning of the match.
To help you break past most defensive cores, hit fast and hard and early / pivot, I think you can try EBelt Thundurus-T over Scarf.
Thundurus-T @ Expert Belt
Timid / 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Thunder / Hidden Power Ice / Focus Blast / Agility
The reason for this change is just to give you a powerful, fast wallbreaker that can tear down opposing defensive cores early in your matches, requiring usually only one or two turns to set up and punch holes. The ability to switch moves is what I'm aiming for here- letting you hit Tentacruel with Thunder and hit Ferrothorn with Focus Blast without needing to switch. This will greatly ease prediction and help you win against defensive teams. The first three moves are your attacks, with good coverage and decent power. The last move is really according to preference; Agility can be used to beat opposinh HO, Nasty Plot can be used to squish defensive teams, or Volt Switch can be used to pivot around and scout, as well as feign choice.
Now, I don't think Dnite is worth its slot. It's making you weak to SR, Sand teams, and Lati@s, and its offensive role is covered by others already. I think your team needs a tank- one that can sponge hits and support your team, just to give you a non-sacrificial answer to opposing offense. Being that your team is a bit weak to DragSpam and Rock types, I think a good change to make would be Specially Defensive Jirachi over Dragonite.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Calm / 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
Stealth Rock / Iron Head / Body Slam / Wish
Jirachi is a good replacement because it is a better sponge that has better synergy and that can support your team. Its massive bulk makes it a hard stop to DragSpam and most Rock types- and its paraflinching can give Dos and Thundy opportunities to set up. Iron Head and Body Slam also hinder opposing offensive teams, especially Lati@s, by dealing good amounts of damage through paraflinch. Jirachi also sets Stealtg Rock, which is pretty important for a team such as this to help you KO opponents. Wish is another great support move; since your team in general has no access to Recovery you can use Wish.
Now, for some more minor changes. Being that Thundurus-T already provides more than enough eletric coverage, I'd say use Trick over Thunderbolt on Latios. Trick can be used to cripple walls and setup sweepers, and it gives you the option to switch moves against stall teams. On Keldeo, I'd use a Timid nature over Modest, as max speed is necessary to tie with Terrakions, Garchomps, and Salamences.
Good luck! I hope I have helped!
|Feb 9th, 2013, 12:18:49 AM||#4|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Hi gimmick! Thanks for the rate!
I will definitely take your mamoswine and Starmie suggestions into consideration, however, on Gyarados, I have a slight concern; I forgot to mention that ice fang has proven to be very reliable, many a time at only once DDance the opponent would switch into Latios to try to tank the waterfall, and the unexpected ice fang always OHKOs, giving me a free +1 to attack. Earthquake is mainly there for neutral as well as to take out rock and electric types. However, with your additions, such concerns may be covered. I will definitely play test your set!
Thank you electro for your rate! I'm reconsidering utilizing thundurus, but if I do return to him, I will try out your set, it seems slot more effective than my current one. Jirachi seems just like what this team needs to retain a semblance of balance, and I will definitely try her.
Thanks guys (:
|Feb 9th, 2013, 4:36:40 AM||#5|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Interesting team, but for a team with a pretty big weakness to Stealth Rock, as well as lacking your own, I can see some problems. I think your lack of Stealth Rock is pretty big, as you will be trying to force a lot of switches of your own, so I think you'd do well to include that somewhere. If you want a Pokemon that can perform these roles, then I think you'd do well to try out Lead Terrakion somewhere in your team, probably over Dragonite or Gyarados. It seems like Dragonite is a complete liability under Rain, which you can't always guarantee will be up. Gyarados on the other hand honestly doesn't look like it has a lot of opportunities to sweep, especially given you have trouble breaking through it's counters, namely Ferrothorn that Terrakion can deal with. It also provides you with a reliable lead, as you can get up Stealth Rock or prevent it from turn 1, aiding you against opposing offensive teams. Just something to consider, I think you'll sweep a lot easier if you consider this change.
Looking over your team, I think a lot of problems spawn from the fact you're packing a lot of Choice users. Your opponent can setup against a lot of your team locked into the wrong move, and so many choice users may be detrimental at times. I'd agree with Electrolyte that you should change your Thundurus-T set. It doesn't seem like the best scarfer for your team, further giving setup opportunites to stuff like Rock Polish Landorus and Dragon Dance Dragonite. If you go with the Terrakion change, then I think you should consider trying out an Agility set instead. This set takes advantage of the hazards that Terrakion provides, and actually provides you with a more reliable win condition. More importantly, it gives you the freedom of switching up moves, which is great as Thundurus-T is nearly uncounterable with the right coverage moves. Losing Thundurus-T as your scarfer isn't a big deal, when you still have Keldeo who can similarly revenge everything Thundurus-T could, but takes considerably less from priority moves.
Also looking over some of your Pokemon movesets, you might want to change a few things. I'd consider dropping Hidden Power [Grass] on Politoed for Surf. Having double STAB on a Specs user is really nice, as you have the choice of power or accuracy against certain Pokemon. I know this is really important against stuff like Ninetales, who may want to switch in for free expecting a defensive set, and you don't want to miss a Hydro Pump as it switches in. As for Latios, I'd agree with the Trick suggestion, which becomes an even better choice if you go with Agility Thundurus over your current set because you now have something to take advantage of your opponent being locked into the wrong move.
|Feb 9th, 2013, 6:39:11 AM||#6|
Join Date: Jan 2012
I got your request so I'll rate your team. First of all, I think that two Choice Scarf user in the same team are quite redundant, therefore I suggest you to change Thundurus-T's set into a Agility one, as Jimbon and Electrolyte already said. Agility Thundurus-T is a great sweeper and if it uses Agility, it can smash opponent's team easily and it's a really nice pokčmon to take advantage of something that is locked into a wrong move. You have already Choice Scarf Keldeo so Thundurus-T can lack Choice Scarf without any problem. I'd use the set that Jimbon already posted, it's really good. Then, your team lacks Stealth Rock with is really important to deal threats like Dragonite, Salamence, Volcarona, opposing Thundurus-T and so on more easily. Therefore, I suggest you to use Garchomp replacing Dragonite which seems the weak line in your team since you don't need bulky Dragonite in a offensive team as yours. I'd use a EVs spread of 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 SAtk with a moveset of Outrage, Earthquake, Fire Blast and Stealth Rock, with Naive nature and with Focus Sash. Focus Sash Garchomp is a good Stealth Rock user and it can also eliminate Ferrothorn with Fire Blast and if Ferrothorn dies, Keldeo, Gyarados and Latios can sweep opponent's team more easily, thefore Garchomp should work fine in your team. Fire Blast can seem a strange move in a rain team but Garchomp will be your lead on 99% of your matches and rain isn't up at turn 1 so it isn't a problem for Garchomp. Next, I'd change Politoed's nature in Timid. Timid nature allows to outspeed Adamant Dragonite and Adamant Breloom which is useful in my opinion since Dragonite and Breloom are quite threatening for your team. As last thing, I suggest you to use Timid nature replacing Modest nature on Keldeo. Timid nature is important on Choice Scarf Keldeo because it allows to have a speed tie with Terrakion and because it allows to outspeed Garchomp, Salamence and Thundurus-T.
Last edited by Alexander.; Feb 9th, 2013 at 7:20:05 AM.
|Feb 9th, 2013, 7:13:41 AM||#7|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Pretty cool team here, but stop run fill choice (2 scarf,2 specs) why not an agility+nasty plot thundurus-t ?
Modest, 252 evs satk, 108 evs spe, 148 evs hp, nasty plot, agility, hp ice, thunder/thunderbolt
This thundurus-t is just horrible....
|Feb 9th, 2013, 9:47:14 AM||#8|
Join Date: Sep 2010
Hi there, nice team here!
The first thing I notice is that your team is incredibly weak to stealth rock because you have three components that take 25% more damage to each entry, Gyarados is also known that not so imported into the team since you've already keldeo and Gyarados as water types, so I want to recommend a change that will only bring benefits to your team adding also stealth rock, I'm talking about Forretress.
Forretress > Gyara make your team stronger gaining a good physical wall, but thanks to rapid spin will take away from the field the entry hazards increasing drastically yor staying power.
At this point, I note that you do not have a physical sweeper, so I advise you to change the set of Dragonite in the classic DDancer but putting in the set Superpower, with whom can you get rid of Ferrothorn so very easy, as it would take double damage and ferrothorn can cause some damage to your team, but for hit also Tyranitar and Heatran.
As a last what I advise to use Politoed timid with max speed, in this way be able to outspeed Mamoswine 'cause can give some problems to the team, but also CBNite and Breloom.
PM or VM me for a OU Rate!