|Feb 6th, 2013, 9:13:32 AM||#1|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Hello Smogon. I’m new here and I don’t really post much on the Smogon forums but here is a team I decided to upload it as this one has worked very well for me and I would like to see if I can improve it in any way. This is a somewhat standard rain team which works well with a mix sweeping combo of dual Dance Thundurus-T and SD Toxicroak with offensive pressure as well as support from other members of the team. As you all can already see the team has peaked up to 1886 which might not be that great according to you guys but is a decent score for me and shows me that the team has potential nonetheless.
Politoed @ Choice Specs
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
Since it's a Rain Team, it’s necessary to use Politoed in it. SpecsToed is a early game cleaner, I wanted him because of its sheer power and decent bulk. Also, SpecsToed gives me much wanted momentum, and with his power, he tears huge holes in the opposing team with Modest Max Special Attack Specs Rain Boosted STAB Hydro Pump. I don't hesistate to abuse it power and sack it (unless I’m playing against opposing weather) just to put the rain up or because I want to smack something really really hard, so I send it on the field to frighten the opposing mon. When there are no more (ferro)thorns on the opponent’s side for politoed all I have to do is spam hydro pump at times.
Regarding the moveset it’s pretty standard with the exception of HP Grass over Perish Song. I use Focus Blast for Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, and Hidden Power Grass is needed to hit Gastrodon hard enough or he becomes a huge problem late game if not weakned. I put 20 EV's in spd because i wanted to outspeed other Politoed and Scizor. He is generally the lead against Sun Teams thanks to his low speed comparing to Ninetails and the pressure he puts on those team and sand teams as long as they don’t carry a Rotom-W.
Thundurus-Therian @ Leftovers
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 152 HP/ 252 SAtk/ 104 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
-Hidden Power [Ice]
This here is key member 1 of my team. Dual Dance Thundurus after setup is one of the greatest sweepers we can use in the game, especially in a Rain Team. So Thundurus is usually my late game Sweeper. He can use Nasty Plot quite easily, and Agility is there to bypass speed issues. Thundurus-T can easily set up on pokemon who can’t touch it or choiced pokes locked into an electric move thanks to its ability Volt Absorb.
As I already said before, Thundurus-T is generally my mid/late game sweeper, he comes after the rest of the team deals some damage with SR on the field. I rely on Scizor to kill the Lati@s to open the path of destruction and other Thundurus-T counters. Thunder is used because the power is greatly appreciated against Celebi without Psychic, Scizor or some other mon who isn't weak to Electric or Fight not to mention the fact that it gets perfect accuracy in rain. My other move on this set is HP Ice which forms an almost unresisted combination known as “Bolt-Beam” which after a nasty plot has enough power to destroy opposing teams. Also, Nasty Plot is useful to one shot dragons who aren’t 4x weak to HP Ice or resist Thunder.
Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
The second key member of this team, Toxicroak is just a dangerous sweeper. Depending on the opposite team, he can do his job at the beginning, the middle or the end of the battle. Toxicroak performs really well against opposing Rain, he's my main answer against Stall team without Quagsire or Jellicent. He is able to 6-0 RainStall as well as Drag Mag teams quite easily if played correctly. Even in the Sun, his Sucker Punch at +2 is really useful. By the way, Toxicroak is also able to absorb Toxic Spikes as well as toxic from my side of the field, which is very helpful for Politoed.
Toxicroak has a lot of set-up fodder and it's really easy for him to Swords Dance especially against politoed which happens to be no.2 in usage unless it carries psychic and Keldeo which is one of the biggest threats this generation. He has the ability to take a U-Turn and check some mon like ScarfTerrakion, and Breloom some of the most threating mons in today’s metagame .Life Orb is the best item on this set since Dry Skin provides a 12% recovery every turn recovering the damage lost from life orb in rain thus not allowing the opponent to try hard prediction to make you kill yourself with life orb damage. Its coverage, Ice/Fight/Dark, is just perfect in the current metagame, allowing to hit almost everyone for at least neutral damage. Sucker Punch acts as a pseudo-priority move, allowing him to deal with faster mons such as Tornadus, Thundurus-T, Starmie or Latios.
Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Jolly (+Spd, -SAtk)
Garchomp is an important member of the team, though at times it feels a bit replaceable. It's a really good Pokemon to set Stealth Rock for my team because it forces out a lot of common threats, grabbing me momentum. Stealth Rock lets me get decent damage against volt-turn as well as mons weak to rocks and is an essential for any team. I use maximum Speed on Garchomp and attack on garchomp to provide huge offensive pressure. I also need Garchomp to check opposing Toxicroak, as it outpaces the Ice Punch and won't take too much from Sucker Punch. The main reason for choosing lead garchomp over lead terrakion is a huge weakness to Thundurus-T in general especially the agility/dual dance set so garchomp is here to outspeed and absorb thunder to take down Thundurus-T before it gets a chance to set up. Garchomp is actually quite powerful. The moves I use on the set are the standard moveset with Outrage and Earthquake as powerful stabs and while SD immediately boosts Garchomps power Aqua Tail does a pretty decent chunk to mons weak to water type under the rain. Garchomp is usually my standard lead if getting rocks up is my priority and also my lead whenever I see an obvious lead Terrakion, as while Terrakion is guaranteed Stealth Rock, I can take it down to its Focus Sash. Even if it lands a Close Combat, it will end up KOed the next turn thanks to Rough Skin.
Scizor @ Choice Band
EVs: 248 HP/ 252 Atk/ 8 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
There is a reason Scizor is the number 1 pokemon on the usage list. Scizor was an obvious choice to the team. It keeps the momentum with U-Turn. I use Scizor because it's great against some antiRain-mon like Latias or Celebi (but I have to be careful with HP Fire). Also, more importantly scizor has 2 things going for it which are priority in bullet punch and a secondary steel typing which Is a blessing because a steel type is absolutely necessary on any team to stop dragons from wrecking things apart. Pursuit is a key-move for the team, allowing me to remove Celebi, Latias and Latios and thus opening the way for Thundurus-T to set up and sweep. Also, I can Pursuit Jellicent to death if I have the opportunity since it is a huge threat to rain teams in general. Superpower hits things weak to fighting types extremely hard for super-effective damage. Scizor also helps me take out Terrakion which is a huge threat to any team in general.
Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SAtk/ 4 SDef/ 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
-Hidden Power [Ice]
Choice Scarf Keldeo in the rain is definitely one of the best cleaners and revenge killers in the rain. In the rain Keldeo’s main STAb Hydro Pump gets the power of specs set outside rain while a scarf fixes it speed issues it has against terrakion and the lati twins. Once Jellicent, Rotom-W, Celebi, or whatever rain check that sand teams have is sufficiently worn down, Keldeo can simply sweep them without even needing rain to be up. The only Choice Scarf users that Keldeo doesn't at least Speed-tie are Choice Scarf Latios and Latias, both of which are taken care of by Scizor fairly easily. Keldeo outpaces Choice Band Stoutland (if it's running an Adamant nature), so even if I lose the weather war I can still win the match with Keldeo. The other moves on Keldeo are used fairly rarely, but they do have their uses. Secret Sword provides me with a STAB Fighting-type move, and it's useful against Chansey, Blissey, and Tyranitar if I cannot afford a miss. Icy Wind is pretty much solely for Dragon-types, as it's too weak to do any noteworthy damage to Celebi. The reason I’m not using Hidden Power Ice over Icy Wind is because Icy Wind kills those dragons which HP ice does anyways and HP Ice doesn’t heavily damage mons such as latias while Icy Wind does almost the same amount which getting a speed drop which might allow me to take Scarf Lati’s own myself thanks to the drop in speed.
Politoed @ Choice Specs Trait: Drizzle EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd Timid Nature IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk - Hydro Pump - Ice Beam - Psychic - Focus Blast Thundurus-Therian @ Leftovers Trait: Volt Absorb EVs: 152 HP / 252 SAtk / 104 Spd Modest Nature - Nasty Plot - Agility - Thunder - Hidden Power [Ice] Toxicroak @ Life Orb Trait: Dry Skin EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Adamant Nature - Swords Dance - Drain Punch - Ice Punch - Sucker Punch Garchomp @ Focus Sash Trait: Rough Skin EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd Jolly Nature - Stealth Rock - Earthquake - Outrage - Swords Dance Scizor @ Choice Band Trait: Technician EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd Adamant Nature - Bullet Punch - U-Turn - Pursuit - Superpower Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Scarf Trait: Justified EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd Timid Nature - Hydro Pump - Secret Sword - Hidden Power [Ice] - Surf
So this right here is my first RMT on Smogon so Hurray! for that. Like any other team this team isn’t perfect and as its fair share of weakness yet I’m proud of this team and really enjoy using it. For those of you who took the time to read this entire RMT mad respect to you. I’m really interested in your comments and suggestion and would love to try them out. Once again Thank You and Goodbye!
Last edited by AphoticSD; Feb 8th, 2013 at 1:02:11 AM.
|Feb 6th, 2013, 9:32:52 AM||#2|
Victors must always speak of the way the world should be, not the way it is.
Join Date: Oct 2012
I only have two advice for you. The first one is to try out a different spread for Politoed. In my opinion Politoed always needs a max speed investiment with timid, in order to outspeed and ko Sd scizor, Sd Breloom, Dragonite. Without the speed you will have an almost useless ice beam that cant outspeed even Celebi and Dragonite, and an hidden power grass that cant outspeed rotom-w. Its also more usefull for example if you are facing a special defensive Jirachi, since you can outspeed it before it can flinch you to death, but also Specs Magnezone and all the other threath with less than 262 speed. It helps a bit against adamant mamoswine too. Its just an overall better spread that makes your politoed more efficent.
The second one, is for scizor. Everytime you have only one steel you are probably going to have problems against lat@wins, and the same is for this. Specs draco meteor 2kos scizor with stealth rock damage, and then it does a ko every time Latios switch ins. A quick fix to this would be to try a specially defensive variants with the same item. These evs should give you more bulk to pursuit Lat@wins while not losing much power : 248 HP / 44 Atk / 216 SDef with an adamant Nature.
Check out team of the week!
Last edited by Neliel; Feb 6th, 2013 at 9:45:47 AM. Reason: typo
|Feb 6th, 2013, 9:39:43 AM||#3|
Join Date: Jan 2012
Cool team you have here, so props for building it! However, I have some advice to give you so let's go with the rate! Alright, first of all, your team seems a little weak to Mamoswine because it beats Garchompě and Thundurus-T easily and because you haven't any switch into its powerful Earthquakes. Therefore, I suggest you to use Yache Berry and Focus Blast replacing Leftovers and. Yache Berry allows you to survive to Mamoswine's Ice Shard and to kill it back with Focus Blast. You don't need Leftovers on a offensive pokemon as Thundurus-T and you don't need neither Hidden Power Ice on it because you have already many ice-type moves on your team so dragon-types aren't threatening for your team. Then, I'd change Politoed's EV spread into 120 HP / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd. This EV spread allows you to outspeed Calm Rotom-W, which is very common nowadays and 2HKO it with Hidden Power after the damage from Stealth Rock and that helps you a lot because Rotom-W can be problematic for your team since it beats your current Politoed, Keldeo and Scizor quite easily. Politoed doesn't lose much defensive and anyway it doesn't need it at all because Politoed isn't a defensive pokemon. Next, on Garchomp I'd use Fire Blast replacing Aqua Tail / Sword Dance and I'd change Jolly nature into Naive nature. Fire Blast helps you to deal with Skarmory and Ferrothorn better and if Skarmory dies, for example, Toxicroak can sweep easily and Scizor can hit hard opponent's team with Bullet Punch and U-turn and if Ferrothorn dies, Keldeo can sweep more easily so Fire Blast should work fine in your team. Garchomp doesn't worry about rain anyway because you should use it as lead when rain isn't up. Finally, on Keldeo I'd use Hidden Power Electric replacing Surf. I know that Surf is a very useful and powerful move on Keldeo but Gyarados can smash your team easily after a Dragon Dance and Hidden Power Electric allows you to revenge-kill it without any problem.
|Feb 6th, 2013, 12:33:03 PM||#4|
Join Date: Aug 2011
Cool team. I especially like your offensive core. Toxicroak and Thundurs support eachothers well in taking out eachothers checks. First off, there is no reason to run Icy wind on Keldeo. Keldeo is scarfed so it doesn't need a Speed drop on the likes of Latios/Latias. Instead run Hidden Power Ice. This'll give you a stronger Ice-type move and gets rid of the annoying 95% accuracy, which can hurt. You mention running it for scarfed Latias/Latios, but there's no real need to. Scizor can easily tank hits from scarfed variants since they lack power and trap them with Pursuit.
Secondly, I want to agree with neliel. The set of your Politoed isn't as efficient as it could be. Give it max speed and then run Psychic over Focus Blast. As neliel said, without the speed to outpace things Ice Beam is meant to hit, it's pretty useless. I also don't think Ferrothorn is a threat to your team. It's set up fodder for both Thundurus and Toxicroak, while even Garchomp / Scizor / Keldeo can do good damage to it. Opposing Toxicroak can be really threatening to your team, that's why i suggest Psychic. Beware though, max speed poli only outspeed bulky variants, so play safe with it if you see a Toxicroak. With the ev spread you run on Thundurus, you can choose to run Substitute over Agility. This way, you can set up versus Ferrothorn without having those annoying Leech Seeds and it makes it easier to predict, f.e. subbing up on when your opponent switches in Latias. This way you'll always get HP Ice damage on Latias, making it easier to sweep. It's also a really good partner for your Scizor. It can come in when Scizor U-turn out on the likes of Jellicent / Skarmory / Gliscor etc and proceed to set up a sub while the opposing pokemon switches out threatened to be OHKO'd. This set might be a little hard to pull of multiple times for your team as you lack a Rapid Spinner, but it's worth a try.
Hope I helped. Good luck.
|Feb 6th, 2013, 1:01:38 PM||#5|
Nobody is safe from the power of science!
Join Date: Jun 2011
I don't have much time for a lenghty or more accurate rate, but after seeing the team the first time, I got the clear impression that WoW Jellicent is a big headache for you. Ok, Thundurus-T dismantles it, but it cannot set up on it nor switch with impunity (both a status move and a Rain-boosted Scald hurt on a SR-weak pokemon with no means of recovery besides Lefties). Everything else just can't touch it, I feel quite ironic that you mention Scizor Pursuit trapping it while it can simply Recover the damage or worse WoW you and force you out. HP Grass barely 2HKOs Defensive versions, but let's face it, a Choice locked HP Grass is a huge set-up bait for many pokemon: Jirachi, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress, Volcarona, I could continue forever I guess. Garchomp needs to lock itself into Outrage to have a shot at 2HKOing, which again is bad and can lead to you losing your SR setter or something else setting up (and, without hazards, the chances to 2HKO are like 2%, so...not exactly reliable). I don't really have a quick fix or something similar to suggest, but I just wanted to point out this observation I did. Maybe I'm wrong and the team can handle Jellicent without problems, but given my poor experience with Thundurus-T and the fact that it's the only reliable way to get past it, I'd suggest at least to consider this problem and to see how to handle it.
|Feb 6th, 2013, 1:49:53 PM||#6|
Join Date: Jul 2008
hey there, i like this team. i've used a team build very similar to this one back when torn-t was still OU, with mamoswine > garchomp, so i think i can help you out.
first of all, i think you should change some of politoed's moves. as mentioned previously, toxicroak is a big threat for this team if garchomp's been weakened sufficiently, as it resists all of scizor's, keldeo's and your own toxicroak's attacks, as well as hard walling your own politoed. you mention that you have focus blast for ferrothorn and tyranitar, but as mentioned by others, ferrothorn is mere set up bait for quite a few of your pokemon, and it gets smacked around pretty hard by just about everything. tyranitar is handled by specs hydro pump, so i think you should drop focus blast and replace it with psychic. this will give you surefire way to eliminate croak as well as hit tentacruel for big damage (although tentacruel isn't as big of a problem, garchomp and thunderus-t force him out pretty easily). next, i suggest replacing hidden power grass for something more useful: toxic. gastrodon, jellicent, and especially rotom-w can give you headaches if not addressed properly. jellicent can recover the damage from hp grass while avoiding a 2HKO, and rotom-w is usually specially defensive AND can outspeed you, meaning you will either get hit for big damage by volt switch or it will just pain split the damage from hp grass away. luckily, they are all extremely common switch-ins for politoed. hitting any of these with toxic on the switch will basically cripple them for the entirety of the match. i also agree with neliel on politoed having max speed. basically the set i recommend is this:
next, i'll also have to agree with substitute on thunderus-t. it seems like a great idea for weakening its would-be counters, and it will probably even get some HP back from volt switch considering you have a couple of pokemon that attract electric attacks.
lastly, i'm going to have to disagree with alexander's suggestion of fire blast on garchomp. this is a rain team, and more often than not rain will be up meaning fire blast vs standard ferrothorn does a measly 31.82% - 38.64%, while against skarmory you're doing 23.35% - 28.14% (note that this is against physically defensive!). i'd keep aqua tail to hit lando-t/gliscor harder on the switch, or maybe swords dance if you want more firepower.
that's basically it, good luck with the team!
|Feb 6th, 2013, 6:43:56 PM||#7|
If our love is tragedy, why are you my remedy?
Join Date: Jun 2011
So this is a pretty cool team and a good representation of standard Rain offense at the moment. The team looks pretty solid all around, but seems to have one major weakness, this being Latias or Latios. Both can do a ton of damage to Scizor with HP Fire (or Surf in Rain) and outspeed/KO almost every pokemon on your team. To help with this I would suggest using a Specially Defensive Jirachi > Scizor. This may seem like an odd suggestion, with this being such an offensive team, but Jirachi can work great on Offense even when using a Defensive set. Its ability to Paralyze foes easily always helps when using a rather slow team like this one and it gives you a very solid counter to Latios/Latias who could otherwise 6-0 you. A moveset of Iron Head / Thunder / U-Turn / Wish would work well, as like Scizor it maintains a lot of momentum while also making Wish passing to the rest of your team much easier. Another minor nitpick is to run HP Ice > Icy Wind on Keldeo, as you already outspeed almost the entire metagame and HP Ice boasts a greater base power. Anyways, cool team and gl.
|Feb 7th, 2013, 6:28:42 AM||#8|
Join Date: Feb 2013
So Many Rates!!! :O
Seriously thanks for the help guys it really means a lot :D
I'm still testing quite a few of the suggestions given by all of you and will update the RMT with the results.
ATM the following changes have already taken place:
1) Max Speed Politoed suggested by Everyone
2) HP Ice on Keldeo suggested by Eranu, Alexander and dragonuser
3) Psychic over HP Grass on Politoed
Changes which i am testing:
1)Jirachi > Scizor as suggested my dragonuser
2)Sub over Agility on Thundurus-T as suggested by Milos and Eranu
4)Specially Defensive Scizor by Neliel
1)Fire Blast on Garchomp over SD/Aqua Tail
2)HP Electric on Keldeo over Surf
3)Yache Berry over Leftovers on Thundurus-T
Last edited by AphoticSD; Feb 8th, 2013 at 1:01:10 AM.