The Dark Horse Project (NU Edition)

[ZandgaiaX]

I try to have everything try to resolve around raichu, as I keep the lad on at all times. I guess I'll work on a list of pokémon that I had used uh.

[Ruthless3Roo]

This Darkhorse Project finally made me make an account after viewing as a guest for a long time. Sounds fun

Pokemon Showdown! Username: NewbforHire
Hall of Fame Standing:
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Kingler
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!:

Didnt know Gardevoir was banned so im switching my Username from DarkHorseGuy to NewbforHire to reset ranking

[ZandgaiaX]

well I'd say I think I finally got the team I wanted together :'), it only took four days but then you have it!

Switched Golurk for Drifblim though, I'll update my post now.

Also, I think I'll keep using this team I have regardless of whether it works or not, the troll factor is just too epic.

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/nu9583993

Edit: also my conclusion about Raichu is that it is underwhelming, at least in a team like mine: which worked fairly hard on. Yes he can revenge, yes he can absorb electric attacks, yes he's 'fast' but my god, it can't even outspeed unburden Drifblim: one of the major threats I have: nor can it beat Sawk one on one, except if Sawk used Close Combat before. I think I'm going to give Raichu today, and if he underperforms, I'm going to drop out, but keep using this team without raichu: instead using something like garborder or something.

[Punchshroom]

Hello, sorry for the delay. My original alt failed to work out due to bad connections, netting me a 4:3 win loss ratio as opposed to 6:1. However, due to encouragement from WhiteDMist himself, I've decided to start this challenge anew!

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Mario's Wonder Pet
Hall of Fame Standing:
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Sneasel, Muk, Beheeyem, Simipour
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1891 ± 54 65 - 9 - 1

[ZandgaiaX]

alright I finally found what Raichu can do, somewhat.

I now use a NP set with Surf and Static instead of Grass Knot/Focus Blast, awesome to nail Golurk or any other ground or fire types, far better than HP Ice, and it's not like I have 'that' much trouble with steels. Read: I never see them.

Thank you to the person who suggested I should try NP Raichu out regardless, you know who you are ;D

Edit: Since my team focuses on causing switches, I think I'm still in need of a spiker. But I can't really think of changing any team mates, does anybody perhaps have a suggestion?

[WhiteDMist]

Originally Posted by Fat ZandgaiaX

alright I finally found what Raichu can do, somewhat.

I now use a NP set with Surf and Static instead of Grass Knot/Focus Blast, awesome to nail Golurk or any other ground or fire types, far better than HP Ice, and it's not like I have 'that' much trouble with steels. Read: I never see them.

Thank you to the person who suggested I should try NP Raichu out regardless, you know who you are ;D

Edit: Since my team focuses on causing switches, I think I'm still in need of a spiker. But I can't really think of changing any team mates, does anybody perhaps have a suggestion?

I don't know how legal that set is. Nasty Plot is a move onlu Pichu learns, while I believe the Surf Pikachu is given to you in 4th gen and can't be bred. So unless you can tell me how it'd work, I would call that set illegal.

Edit: Then that's fine.

[ZandgaiaX]

Originally Posted by Fat WhiteDMist

I don't know how legal that set is. Nasaty Plot is a move onlu Pichu learns, while I believe the Surf Pikachu is given to you in 4th gen and can't be bred. So unless you can tell me how it'd work, I would call that set illegal.

Hm? I wonder how Showdown allows that then, I'll look it up, give me a few minutes.

[celever]

Pichu gets surf from an even in generation 3. It learns nasty plot by level up. Trade it over and it is a simple legal set.

Pichu gets it as well; honest. http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi...By_leveling_up
Go to the event section.

[ZandgaiaX]

Originally Posted by Fat celever

Pichu gets surf from an even in generation 3. It learns nasty plot by level up. Trade it over and it is a simple legal set.

Doesn't Pikachu get the event?

If so, it is indeed illegal. Dagnabit. Means I have to start over non?

[CBTerrakion]

It is yet another PS moveset illegality bug, as confirmed by Marty on #showdown.

[JirachiCelebiMew]

Zandgaia, it's nice how you're trying to think outside of the box, tell me how you fare vs Specially Defensive Probopass and other Steel-types.

[JirachiCelebiMew]

Sorry for the double-post, but this has to be done.

It's been about 4 days I've posted this, and you must be having a lot of fun with your Dark Horse team (I've seen a couple on the PS! ladder). I encourage you to answer the following questions by editing them into your registration form. (Try to separate the stuff from the Registration Form and the answers to the questions).

Originally Posted by Fat Birkal

How did you choose your Dark Horse Pokemon for this project? What lead you to choose the Pokemon you did? Did you have regrets or were you happy with your selection?


How did you go about building a team for your Dark Horse Pokemon? Which kinds of teammates did you consider? What factors contributed to the team you created?


Do you think it is more difficult or less difficult to ladder with a Dark Horse Pokemon? Why? Does the element of surprise play a factor in your battles? Is it easier to fight with a "highly used"" team or with Pokemon that are less common?

I'd also like to thank everyone who is participating. Remember, if you have any questions, ask me or anyone else in the project (WhiteDMist or FireMage).

[Punchshroom]

I'm trying Stoutland, one of my Dark Horse pokemon. He really seems to be outclassed by every other Normal type in NU. Kangaskhan abuses Scrappy better, Tauros utilises Intimidate sweeping better (both of theses primarily due to higher speed), Granbull of all things can make use of Intimidate walling better while possessing greater power AND Heal Bell. Stoutland shares its nice Dark-Fighting coverage with Zangoose and Ursaring. Zangoose has again, better speed, power plus priority. Ursaring can activate its speed-boosting ability at will while the lack of perma-sand really hurts Stoutland. Is there any hope for Trainer's best friend, or is he forever outclassed? The most potential I see out of him is EBeast's Parashuffler set, which is fairly mediocre in terms of effectiveness.

[ZandgaiaX]

Originally Posted by Fat CBTerrakion

It is yet another PS moveset illegality bug, as confirmed by Marty on #showdown.

Booooh showdown >: (

Originally Posted by Fat JirachiCelebiMew

Zandgaia, it's nice how you're trying to think outside of the box, tell me how you fare vs Specially Defensive Probopass and other Steel-types.

Well as I said I don't see a whole lot of steel types (so far anyway), only having seen like a single mawile, a single wormadan-trash and some Probopasses.

The good thing about this is, is that most will lead with Probopass: seeing as I always always lead with Liepard, they are very easily crippled with specs on them. Here are some calcs regardless:

252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ampharos: 62-74 (16.14 - 19.27%) -- possible 8HKO
+2 252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ampharos: 124-147 (32.29 - 38.28%) -- 1.76% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Camerupt: 210-249 (61.04 - 72.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Camerupt: 420-495 (122.09 - 143.89%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 194-230 (53.44 - 63.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Golurk: 388-458 (106.88 - 126.17%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Luxray: 98-116 (26.92 - 31.86%) -- possible 4HKO
+2 252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Luxray: 196-231 (53.84 - 63.46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 164-194 (40.59 - 48.01%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 326-384 (80.69 - 95.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Torkoal: 214-254 (62.39 - 74.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Torkoal: 428-504 (124.78 - 146.93%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 88-104 (27.16 - 32.09%) -- possible 4HKO
+2 252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Probopass: 174-206 (53.7 - 63.58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I have to admit that it doesn't look 'too great' but it's more to give golurk the finger if it switches in, as well as camerupt and technically torkoal. Also, I believe it's more reliable than focus blast, despite focus blast actually being more powerful against probopass.

Alas, seeing as Nasty Plot and Surf aren't legal it seems. I'm afraid I have to give it a quits, I'll still give my final thoughts, but if this project continues I'll try out something like Porygon, because I like Porygon2 a lot.

Originally Posted by Fat Punchshroom

I'm trying Stoutland, one of my Dark Horse pokemon. He really seems to be outclassed by every other Normal type in NU. Kangaskhan abuses Scrappy better, Tauros utilises Intimidate sweeping better (both of theses primarily due to higher speed), Granbull of all things can make use of Intimidate walling better while possessing greater power AND Heal Bell. Stoutland shares its nice Dark-Fighting coverage with Zangoose and Ursaring. Zangoose has again, better speed, power plus priority. Ursaring can activate its speed-boosting ability at will while the lack of perma-sand really hurts Stoutland. Is there any hope for Trainer's best friend, or is he forever outclassed? The most potential I see out of him is EBeast's Parashuffler set, which is fairly mediocre in terms of effectiveness.

The problem is indeed that Stoutland is indeed powerful enough, but that it has too much competition with the other normal sweepers/wall breakers like zangoose, swellow and ursaring. Whilst needing sand support in the process: and since hippopotas isn't NU, that isn't going to happen as easily as one would wish..

[Punchshroom]

Oh ZandgaiaX, saw your Liepard set. Liepard sits at a very unusual but convenient 106 base speed, which allows it to outpace Rapidash, Kadabra, Charizard, Raichu, the Simis and more pokes between base 105 and 95 speed. The current Liepard analysis optimizes bulk to handle Psychics and Ghosts better while still outspeeding them (except Kadabra) and maintaining a Lefties number, which your set is obviously not trying to go for. Maximum speed investment can be useful in a pinch in case a Rapidash/Simi ape is threatening your weakened team or you don't want to risk speed ties with Charizard or Raichu with your own Raichu, so just a thought. Fortunately, these threats can be taken out by Specs Dark Pulse (if you still have/want the Specs), so some Sp.Atk investment is also recommended. Just a thought.

Edit: Don't give up, Raichu still has things going for it (unlike Stoutland :P). Surf's targets (except the rare Camerupt) are hit harder by Grass Knot and Focus Blast, so there's that, while Lightningrod means opposing Electric types can't cripple you with T-Wave or Discharge (Electabuzz and Rotom can't do that now, can't they? >:D). An interesting notion is HP Ground to strike Probopass, said Electric types and Torkoal (why would he bother trying to stop you in the first place, he's even possible setup bait, plus T-bolt hits him harder anyway) for good damage without shit accuracy, but that's merely a suggestion which I have yet to try myself.

[ZandgaiaX]

Originally Posted by Fat Punchshroom

Oh ZandgaiaX, saw your Liepard set. Liepard sits at a very unusual but convenient 106 base speed, which allows it to outpace Rapidash, Kadabra, Charizard, Raichu, the Simis and more pokes between base 105 and 95 speed. The current Liepard analysis optimizes bulk to handle Psychics and Ghosts better while still outspeeding them (except Kadabra) and maintaining a Lefties number, which your set is obviously not trying to go for. Maximum speed investment can be useful in a pinch in case a Rapidash/Simi ape is threatening your weakened team or you don't want to risk speed ties with Charizard or Raichu with your own Raichu, so just a thought. Fortunately, these threats can be taken out by Specs Dark Pulse (if you still have/want the Specs), so some Sp.Atk investment is also recommended. Just a thought.

Edit: Don't give up, Raichu still has things going for it (unlike Stoutland :P). Surf's targets (except the rare Camerupt) are hit harder by Grass Knot and Focus Blast, so there's that, while Lightningrod means opposing Electric types can't cripple you with T-Wave or Discharge (Electabuzz and Rotom can't do that now, can't they? >:D). An interesting notion is HP Ground to strike Probopass, said Electric types and Torkoal (why would he bother trying to stop you in the first place, he's even possible setup bait, plus T-bolt hits him harder anyway) for good damage without shit accuracy, but that's merely a suggestion which I have yet to try myself.

Yeah posted some more info on the NU-gereral thread about Liepard.

The problem is however, that I'm not a EV-expert, or generally speaking: I don't know a lot about what EV-spread exactly to run, so we'll see what happens about that. Also, relying too much on Liepard still having its specs is not the way to go.

I'll have to look into Raichu again, but with HP-ground, it loses valuable coverage over those pesky grass-types. Which happens to be the biggest problem with Raichu regardless: coverage. It's too bad that despite it's relatively weak special coverage, Raichu has so much awesome moves like E-speed, Focus Punch and Encore

[WhiteDMist]

Just to let you all know, you should list your Glicko2 ranking rather than your ACRE ranking. I'll eventually look up your true rankings on PS, but let's not make this harder than it has to be. Hope everyone is doing well with the challenge!

[Donphantastic]

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Dark Camelot
Hall of Fame Standing: None yet
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Camerupt
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: around 1000 (had to win a game to register)

My set:
Dark Camel Project (Camerupt) (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Solid Rock
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 HP / 128 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Flame Charge
- Explosion


My current, untested, team:

Dark Camel Project (Camerupt) (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Solid Rock
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 HP / 128 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Flame Charge
- Explosion

Creepy Cactoid (Cacturne) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch
- Substitute

FISH KILL! (Alomomola) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Protect
- Wish
- Toxic
- Scald

IcyToonie (Regice) @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 SDef
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Charge Beam

Niichts (Staryu) @ Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SDef / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Recover
- Scald
- Pain Split
- Rapid Spin

Birdie (Swellow) (F) @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Guts
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
- Brave Bird
- Facade
- U-turn
- Quick Attack

[Mylo Xyloto]

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Million Voices
Hall of Fame Standing:
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Swanna
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!:

[Constantinipple]

Donphantastic, just so you know and you won't have to waste time like celever did, you may not use more than 2 A-rank pokemon. (you have Haunter, Regice and Alomomola) also, is Ice Body Regice even released?

[Donphantastic]

Originally Posted by Fat Constantinipple

Donphantastic, just so you know and you won't have to waste time like celever did, you may not use more than 2 A-rank pokemon. (you have Haunter, Regice and Alomomola) also, is Ice Body Regice even released?

Ah shit i didn't realize Haunter was A, thanks! Also i believe Regice is realeased, but i'll find out as soon as i try to use it :)

[JirachiCelebiMew]

Constatinipple is right, just please read OP where the NU Viability Rank link is there. Also, Ice Body on Regice is not released.

[WhiteDMist]

In addition, if you are going to list your whole team, could you please put it in HIDE tags? While useful, it isn't necessary for participators to list their sets at all until they hit the Hall of Fame. But there's no need to clog up your application, since that's where you have to edit in most of your vital information and answers to the questions.

[Ninja Dewott]

Pokemon Showdown! Username: Noonahnoo (great name, I know)
Hall of Fame Standing:
Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Linoone / Swoobat / Sneasel
Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 1695

One question, how are we supposed to rank on PO when the tiers aren't correct? For example, Gorebyss is freakin UU on PO...

[JirachiCelebiMew]

There are some people who do ladder on PO, no matter what. Next time just PM me, ok? :D