Go Back   Smogon Community > Site & Projects > Create-A-Pokémon Project > CAP Process Archive
Register FAQ Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:33:56 PM   #1
Birkal*
We have the technology.
is a member of the Smogon Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon Media
 
Birkal's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,000
The
Default CAP 5 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 2

And we're back with round two of voting on our concepts! As usual, I encourage you all to read through each concept thoroughly and think critically about what they entail before voting. Three concepts remain for voting. This poll will be a single bold vote, which means that you vote for only one of the submissions. The details of bold voting can be found here. A typical vote might look like the following:

Quote:
My Preferred Entry

If the voter wishes, he may post comments on his vote below the actual vote. Only the vote itself should be bold and none of the supplementary text should be bold.
Note that any posts that do not contain a vote will be moderated and the poster warned. If you feel compelled to say something in your own vote, you may do so, but please don't try to incite a discussion here. Keep discussion to the IRC channel, #cap, or to the voices in your head.

IMPORTANT: When voting, use only the name of the author! The list of possible votes includes:

Base Speed
Korski
reachzero

This poll will be open for 24 hours. The concept submissions are quoted below in order of submission.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Base Speed View Post
Name: Type Equalizer

Description: A pokemon whose presence in the metagame increases the usage of one or more underused types and simultaneously decreases the usage of one or more overused types.

Justification: Take a look at the OU usage statistics for January and you'll see that 9 out of the top 10 pokemon have either steel, water, dragon or fighting as one of their types, and extending it to the top 20 shows 16/20 with those types. We should also be asking ourselves why these trends exist so strongly and what can be done about them. In creating this CAP, we'd have to discuss in depth many different aspects of what makes a type and opinions can ultimately being tested in the playtest.

Questions To Be Answered:
  • Is a types usefulness relative to the metagame or is it intrinsic? (Ie. Can any type be the "best" type given the right circumstances or do type match-ups, available STAB moves etc mean some types will always be better than others?)
  • What exploitable weaknesses do "good" types in OU have? Are their currently pokemon that can exploit them and if so, how do they function differently to CAP5?
  • How (if at all) will the targeted types adapt to the situation created? Will people choose different movesets, abilities, etc or will they just use them more/less? How is this linked to the way CAP5 functions strategically?
  • What effects will the changes on certain types' presence have on the metagame?
  • Which members of the targeted types will benefit and suffer from this most and why?
  • By creating CAP5, have we learnt any new ways to counter good types or use bad types?

Explanation:
Types have many complex interactions to explore - not just with one another but with abilities (eg, Magnet Pull, Water Absorb), moves and field effects (rain, Stealth Rock, etc), and sometimes even trends in the pokemon with the type. What I'm trying to present is a clear destination whose journey leads to good discussion and analysis of a large aspect of pokemon, whilst still being enjoyable. I feel one of the main strengths of the concept is that it has a wide variety of potential implementations which will help to promote discussion and creativity. The idea of a "bad" or a "good" type is rife throughout all areas of competitive pokemon, with CAP being no exception, so it seems valid to explore it.

A lot of people have asked how I envision this working. The short answer is it depends on which types we decide to take down and up. However, some general ideas can still be given:
Obviously we would want CAP5 to have the right type match ups for the concept. Resistances or immunities to the types we want to take down and weaknesses to those we want to bring up are ideal but not mandatory. Immunity granting abilities are a valid option to patch up not-so-ideal type match-ups later down the line. Between the two, we'd probably be hoping to make moves of certain types less spammable.
Statwise, the build very much depends on what we're targeting as well as the previous steps, so it's difficult to say much. I would suggest decent special defense to prevent people utilising hidden power rather than pokemon of our "bad" types, but that's not a necessity.
Choosing to target certain types might require CAP5 to have specific aspects: for example if we try to bring down water then an anti-rain element would be worth considering and if we're trying to bring up a stealth rock weak type then looking into anti-hazard methods would be a valid option.
Obviously, we should be mindful of specific threats of the targeted type(s) throughout, but we tend to do that well anyway.

Note that I haven't specified how many types we should target. This is really important. One of the big learning opportunities will be when we decide how ambitious we think we can be, as this will provoke discussion on just how firm type dominance is and contribute a lot to answering my first question in particular. I don't want that to be missed because I've said "we should focus on X number of types". That's for the community to decide.

This concept shares some similarities with Mollux in that they both try to make "bad" typings "good". However, the learning opportunities of Mollux were very much focused on the build of a pokemon itself, opting to alleviate typing's weaknesses by combinations of ability and movepool. I'm trying to look more on typing in relation to the build of the metagame and and what new opportunities existing pokemon will have in the modified metagame, without the presence of certain types.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Korski View Post
Final Submission

Concept: Weather Warrior

Description: This Pokemon will be designed to fulfill two roles: 1) abuse one particular weather effect for a weather-based team, and 2) check or counter a particular opposing weather-based playstyle; however, the two roles will be mutually exclusive. Its build will focus on two of Rain, Sun, Sand, and Hail and on weather-abusing Abilities in order to best maintain an either/or dichotomy.

Justification: I think it's about time we tackle weather, and I think we should approach the weather wars from the inside. Picking off weather starters won't make their effects go away unless you've got your own weathermon waiting in the wings, so this concept will aim to work with weather as an understood presence in the BW2 metagame (which it is). The goal here is to create a weather-based CAP that can fit on a variety of weather-based and weatherless teams.

The two roles outlined in this concept are aimed at general approaches towards weather-based teambuilding: you need teammates to do work when your weather is up, and you need teammates to get momentum back in your favor when opposing weather is active. This Poke will be capable of both but only able to do one or the other with any given set. This way we can realistically approach two weathers at once without necessarily mandating any specific weather-starting teammates; it will be very educational to see which role becomes more desirable to players during the playtest. Keep in mind that this concept will still implicitly include the two weathers we don't focus on. I wouldn't be surprised if they get a boost from this concept as well, as they will most likely be able to foil whatever plan this CAP has (regardless of which role it chooses) by introducing an unfamiliar field condition, or will otherwise be able to take advantage of a weakened dominant weather (Drizzle).

Questions to be Answered:
  • Which weather-based playstyles could use some extra help, offensively? Which weather-based playstyles need extra help to effectively check?
  • How does weather control play into teambuilding? Is preparation required to confidently neuter an opposing weather team, or is superior gameplay enough?
  • How will a Pokemon with such vastly different (and ideally, equally viable) roles to play affect strategy-making during Team Preview?
  • Can the weather-counter side of this Pokemon give weatherless teams a better chance of controlling the field of play? What can weather checks like Gastrodon and Kingdra teach us about reacting to aggressive weather teams?
  • Can the weather-abusing side of this Pokemon stack up against current threats? What can threats like Venusaur and Keldeo teach us about maximizing weather's advantages?
Explanation: The scope of this concept is both broad and limited. I doubt we'll pick anything besides rain for the countered weather, but that doesn't mean we have to build something that beats Politoed and nothing more. Rain teams are known for their indestructible Steel-types, notably Ferrothorn and Jirachi, so this Poke could target them as a niche role. Good examples of the weather-counter aspect of the Concept would be Weather Trapper Heatran, Swift Swim Kingdra, and Latias. For the weather abusing side, I would say both Sand and Hail could use the most help, but Sun isn't out of the question. This aspect of the Pokemon would deal with synergy; we must consider current "standard" team builds and how to fit our CAP into them without it being outclassed or stacking up on common weaknesses. Excadrill would be a good example here for being an enormous threat in Sand but much more manageable under any other kind of weather. By simultaneously creating a nerf to one weather and a buff to another, we should be able to create a more balanced weather war or even turn it on its head.

I realize this concept is pretty similar to jc104's submission, so I naturally support that Concept as well and hope I distinguished my submission by comparison. The key difference I'd like to point out between the two is that Weather Balancer has a very broad scope and goal in mind that is probably excessive for a single Pokemon, while Weather Warrior has a unique focus that still (ideally) manages to affect the entire weather-based metagame without trying to actively equalize 5 very different playstyles all on its own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat reachzero View Post
Name: Setting the Pace
General Description: This Pokemon plays very differently against Pokemon slower and faster than it, exploring the concept of speed benchmarks.

Justification: Speed is one of the most defining aspects of a metagame. How "fast" or "slow" a metagame is largely defines the style of play and the usefulness of various moves, yet the concept of speed benchmarks remains largely unexplored. Pokemon fundamentally relate to other Pokemon on the basis of "faster" and "slower", and this concept would teach us about that relationship. Speed is a complex subject, since maximizing a Pokemon's speed is not always the best way to maximize that Pokemon's effectiveness, yet there are certain Pokemon that make such a great impact in terms of their maximum speed that they must be accounted for. Many Pokemon need to decide how much speed is enough, and understanding speed benchmarks will help us to understand that decision-making process.
Questions To Be Answered:
  • How do the important speed benchmarks in a metagame get set?
  • How do they react to new Pokemon that directly relate to those benchmarks?
  • Which moves and strategies most greatly impact slower Pokemon?
  • Which moves and strategies most greatly impact faster Pokemon?
  • How does the utility of a tactic change based on the speed of the Pokemon involved?

Explanation: A speed benchmark is the number that separates a slow-slow Pokemon from a merely slow one, a slow Pokemon from a midrange one, etc. For instance, Breloom and Politoed set the benchmark that no Pokemon of middling speed wants to dip below for OU at 263. In DPP, Tyranitar set this number at 245. Many moves such as U-turn, Baton Pass, and Substitute play very differently depending on the relative speed of the Pokemon and its opponent. Scizor is especially representative of this issue, as a slow Pokemon that commonly uses Bullet Punch and U-turn, both of which are moves that greatly impact and are impacted by Scizor's effective speed. Essentially, this Pokemon would tell us about the effect of speed benchmarks by playing very differently against Pokemon faster or slower than it, setting such a benchmark. The actual speed number is unimportant to the concept.
The competition is fierce; good luck to all three concepts!
__________________
Birkal is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:34:30 PM   #2
Espeon65
 
Espeon65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 792
Akron, Ohio
Default

Base Speed
__________________
CAP Anime Style Battling!
Espeon65 is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:35:15 PM   #3
Yilx
is an Artistis a Smogon IRC AOp
 
Yilx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 994
Singapore
Default

Base Speed

Yilx is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:35:18 PM   #4
Axaj
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 241
California
Default

reachzero
__________________
;)
Axaj is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:35:48 PM   #5
reachzero
the pastor of disaster
is a Tiering Contributoris a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
 
reachzero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,469
Long Island, New York
Default

reachzero
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Aeroblacktyl View Post
who the hell is reachzero
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.
Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own eyes.

(Proverbs 26:4-5)
reachzero is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:36:06 PM   #6
toshimelonhead
cool dude likes melonade
is a Tiering Contributor
 
toshimelonhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 876
Snowpoint City
Default

Korski
__________________
01[21:11] <@toshimelonhead> nova you are one lucky son of a gun
[21:11] <@Novaray> hahahahaha
[21:11] <@durrr> whys he lucky
[21:12] <@Colchonero> maybe he got a date with jason's cousin
[21:12] <@Novaray> LOL
01[21:12] <@toshimelonhead> rofl
[21:13] <@durrr> HAHAHAHHA gtfo shes mine
toshimelonhead is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:36:40 PM   #7
Timeblaze
 
Timeblaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 57
A silver volcano
Default

Base Speed
Timeblaze is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:37:27 PM   #8
Korski
Distilled, 80 proof
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
 
Korski's Avatar
 
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,004
Minneapolis
Default

Korski

Great concepts, Base Speed and reachzero!
__________________
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not." - John Lennon
Korski is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:37:32 PM   #9
The Reptile
 
The Reptile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 640
DreMZ on PS! (´・ω・`)
Default

Korski
__________________
I do the arts now! :D
The Reptile is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:42:45 PM   #10
paintseagull
is an Artistis a Forum Moderator
 
paintseagull's Avatar
 
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 461
Default

Korski


...
__________________
paintseagull's art thread!
paintseagull is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:43:12 PM   #11
Delta Nite
 
Delta Nite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 71
Default

Korski

Guys, weather is the defining aspect of today's metagame. 5th gen is ending and we may not have other opportunity to explore weather. If we finish this generation without fiddling with such an important part of it, I think we may not be going the right road.
Delta Nite is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:44:46 PM   #12
Unitas
 
Unitas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 382
Default

reachzero

I was originally going to vote for Base Speed, but thought about all the different ways we can accomplish reachzero's concept and decided to vote for Setting the Pace instead.

Last edited by Unitas; Feb 9th, 2013 at 9:28:54 PM.
Unitas is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:49:56 PM   #13
jas61292
likes his numbers
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
 
jas61292's Avatar
 
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,243
Strong as a Corsola
Default

reachzero

Great all around though.
__________________
<jas61292> I record everything
<nyttyn> prove it.
<nyttyn> WHAT WAS THE VERY FIRST THING I EVER SAID IN THIS CHANNEL.
<jas61292> [06/02/12 | 12:43] <NyttyN> Huh what deo you know shelll smash did get banned
<nyttyn> what.
<nyttyn> well congratulations jas your stalker nexus has reached an all time high.
jas61292 is online now  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:52:04 PM   #14
Lunar Fist
 
Lunar Fist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 76
Out There
Default

Korski
Lunar Fist is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:53:58 PM   #15
Todd
 
Todd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 70
on the open road
Default

Korski
Todd is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:56:29 PM   #16
Kadew
 
Kadew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 152
UT
Default

Korski
__________________
Kadooooooooom, artsplosion.
Kadew is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:59:18 PM   #17
inanimate blob
 
inanimate blob's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,114
Wherever the food is.
Default

Base Speed
__________________
Yeah! ASB Team! Battle Hall Thread! Battle Factory Team! Reffing Profile!
Also, check out my fly letter on the Join Avenue!

Really decreased activity for the next week or two due to APs and finals.

Hey look, I'm adding to my workload with a Scramble.
inanimate blob is offline  
Old Feb 8th, 2013, 11:59:40 PM   #18
macle
ribbit
is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon Mediais a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
 
macle's Avatar
 
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,724
Wisconsin
Default

Base Speed
macle is online now  
Old Feb 9th, 2013, 12:04:48 AM   #19
GatoDelFuego
U HAVIN A FOKIN GIGGLE THER M8 ILL BASH YE HEAD IN I SWEAR ON ME MUM
is a Contributor to Smogon
 
GatoDelFuego's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,081
The University of Alabama
Default

reachzero
__________________
Part of the GP team, message me for a check!

Sharpen your skills as a GP checker in the GRAMMAR DOJO!
GatoDelFuego is offline  
Old Feb 9th, 2013, 12:06:10 AM   #20
Eternal Drifter
 
Eternal Drifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 925
Default

Base Speed
__________________
Avatar by Romeert. Many thanks, and may his skills be unfailing in battle!

ASB Team

Does one know the true meaning of "Eternal"?
Eternal Drifter is offline  
Old Feb 9th, 2013, 12:11:05 AM   #21
Lster728
 
Lster728's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 60
Default

Base Speed
__________________
*New genre of music=TRUBBSTEP*
TRUBB TRUBB TRUBB TRUBB TRUBB TRUBB TRUBB!!!

YAY TRUBBISH :D
Lster728 is offline  
Old Feb 9th, 2013, 12:13:22 AM   #22
Red Riddler
 
Red Riddler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 35
Default

reachzero
__________________
Suicide lead Beat Up Weavile is downright destructive. Give it a try!
Red Riddler is offline  
Old Feb 9th, 2013, 12:15:54 AM   #23
Mdevil
 
Mdevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 109
Avatar by Eagle4
Default

reachzero
__________________
I want to say I get more stupid everyday, but it would make me stupid to admit that... Irony...
Mdevil is offline  
Old Feb 9th, 2013, 12:19:18 AM   #24
noproblem23
 
noproblem23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 51
Lavender Town
Default

Base Speed
noproblem23 is offline  
Old Feb 9th, 2013, 12:21:29 AM   #25
Espyboss
Banned deucer.
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 27
Default

Base Speed
Espyboss is offline  
Closed Thread Smogon Community > Site & Projects > Create-A-Pokémon Project > CAP Process Archive

Tags
bw2, cap, jas61292

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 3:57:29 AM.