Ubers CCAT 3 - Skies are Clear

[Audiosurfer]

SD Arceus-Ground

[lousy918]

lol lets go
BU Dialga
I would've voted for myself but nah

[Deluks917]

AD arceus ground

[Anikrahman1995]

Latios

[IAmAnHero]

I think it's a bad idea to build a team around Arceus. It'd be better to build one around someone else because Arceus is versatile enough to fill some holes in the team and still be useful. Also inb4 everyone thinks Arceus Ground is a good idea like they did with Arceus Dragon.

[Sweep]

Latios

[Hack He Must]

Latios.

[Asterat]

Cm Lugia if we aren't picking arceus types. CM lugia has no issue checking mewtwo latias, giratina, whatever. Ho-oh and phazers as well as toxic are the only real enemies. Ice beam>Aeroblast though.

Also SubCM giratina should be removed it is just so bad right now. Gira-o should be subphazer, phys. def or maybe mixed.

[blitzlefan]

On second thought, I agree with IAmAnHero. Arceus is versatile to the point that he can fill gaps that we will have (being nonweather). So I'm going to think for a while then edit my vote. Also, yeah, SubCM Giratina-O is pretty bad.

[jackm]

Alright guys, just wanted to let you know that there are exactly six hours left from the timestamp of this post within which you may vote. So do it.

[EDIT]: Well, we have elected Latios as our base pokemon. Congrats Sweep! Now we have to decide on a teamstyle (cue deja vu). I'm not going to comment right now because it's late and I need to sleep, but let's get some discussion going.

[rileydelete]

Hello, I see that I missed the voting period, but I love the idea of a team being based around Latios. With Soul Dew boosting his power, Latios is a good choice for an offensively based team.

That being said, I don't think we should have a stall-based team. Many pokemon that have good synergy with Latias are also offensively based including Groudon and Kyogre.

Now here is where things get interesting. Should we choose a weather to augment our team and if so, which one?

An offensively based rain team lets us abuse Pokemon such as Palkia, Kabutops, and Manaphy to the fullest extent

Meanwhile an offensively based sun team lets us use juggernauts like Ho-Oh, Reshiram, and, if we're feeling bold, Blaziken.

I personally like the idea of an offensively based rain team. Keep up the brainstorming guys :)

[jackm]

Holy crap does no one read the OP.

So, the question that I would like for us to answer with this CCAT is: can we build a team that does not benefit from being adapted to a weather?
Obviously, this entails that For this CCAT, all weather summoning abilities and moves are banned.

[rileydelete]

Forgive me, I was under the impression that that the no weather tenant was strictly for Arceus Dragon discussion.

Perhaps we should consider using CM Arceus Steel along with Latios to build a strong offensive core.


Arceus-Steel
Nature: Timid
248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 Spe

-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Judgement
-Will-O-Wisp

This could balance out our team, letting us pass along burns to potential Latios Checks Like Tyranitar.
Just a suggestion. Keep up the great work :)

[jackm]

Nope, it applies to the project as a whole.

[blitzlefan]

Well... Latios does function as a good stallbreaker, so I suggest that we run a balanced offense team around it.

Some thoughts:
Latios is rather similar to Arceus-Dragon in that it will struggle with scarfed dragons, especially physically based ones like Zekrom and Rayquaza, so a good defensive Steel type should work (maybe Ferrothorn? they have nice synergy. gotta watch out for V-Create though...). Lustrous Orb Palkia can also help in abusing weather, with access to Hydro Pump, Thunder, and Fire Blast, but can also function without it, with its STAB Dragon-type moves. Lastly, it will be walled by Ferrothorn in rain, so a Fighting-type like Terrakion or Arceus-Fighting may work (okay synergy here too I suppose), or Rayquaza with V-Create / another Fire move.

[Sweep]

I suspect people will lean Hyper-Offensive now that Latios is picked, as Latios has the speed, coverage, and insane power to lead a powerful offensive team. To cover its many weaknesses (Bug, Dark, Dragon, and Ice), I propose running Arceus-Steel as a companion for it.

Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
Trait: Multitype
252 HP, 4 Special Attack, 252 Speed
Nature: Timid

-Calm Mind
-Judgment
-Recover
-Thunder Wave

The given EV's allow Arceus-Steel to speed tie other Arceus forms at minimum. Thunder Wave is a great move that no Pokemon that is affected by it appreciates; it can increase Arceus's chances at winning a Calm Mind war while crippling offensive-based Pokemon that give Latios trouble, including Choice Scarf Zekrom. Stealth Rock is an option over Calm Mind as Steel is not the greatest attacking type in the game, and Arceus will not often get the opportunity to sweep entire teams (especially without another coverage move). I am assuming this team will use Deoxys-S or another hazard setter though, so SR may not be necessary. Roar is another option, but Thunder Wave can help limit the potential of opposing Calm Mind Pokemon unless they carry Refresh. Even then, both Latias and Arceus-Dark, the most common carriers of Refresh, will struggle with Steelceus as is.

The lack of coverage and immediate power make Steelceus a mediocre offensive presence, whereas the given EV's will not allow it to take super effective moves very well. Fortunately, Latios can cover for Steelceus's Ground, Fire, and Fighting type weaknesses. Note that Latios does not want to take powerful physical moves such as Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire or Terrakion's Close Combat, though it can handle stuff like Arceus-Fighting's Judgment or Scarf Reshiram's Blue Flare pretty well. Despite these shortcomings (and significant opportunity cost), Steelceus would make a good partner for Latios due to its ability to take repeated resisted hits as well as effectively spread paralysis, making it easier for Latios to clean up late-game.

[Haruno]

Latios/Gene/Deoxy-s/gira-o/cm steelceus/skarm

Bam ccat done.

[rileydelete]

Wow, Thunder Wave Steelceus seems like a really interesting idea. He can then work as a good supporter, potentially crippling huge chunks of opposing teams.

Should we then consider adding a slow, offensive powerhouse if we have a paralysis spreader? Maybe Life Orb/CB Zekrom.



Nature: Adamant
Item Choice Band
EV Spread: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
-Bolt Strike
-Dragon Claw
-Outrage
-Fusion Bolt/Volt Switch

It can force a switch out on a choiced Kyogre locked into Thunder or Surf and smite things as tough as Great Wall Lugia with bolt strike.

Zekrom adds a good physical side to an offensively based team.

[blitzlefan]

Just a note: Steelceus/Zekrom/Latios is somewhat walled by Excadrill alone. (Though I might be wrong). However, Excadrill will have a problem defeating Latios without X-Scissor/Shadow Claw.

[jackm]

I've run a successful Scarf Terrakion+Latios core in the past; while we don't have weather control (I was running sun) it could still be effective. The two of them work quite well together, threatening Arceus, Darkrai, Kyogre, Groudon, Ferrothorn, Ray, and others. Just a thought, we may want to look into running the core.

Sets:

...

---

\
Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Sleep Talk
- Toxic

Latios @ Soul Dew
Trait: Levitate
252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power (Fire)
- Psyshock

@Blitzlefan: eh, Excadrill gets worn down super quickly from boosted Dragon-type attacks. Plus, you know, he gets RKed by Terrakion :)

[Hack He Must]

Did you submit that scarf-Terrakion as a suggestion for the next team member Jackm? In any case, I believe that we should avoid Steelceus as it does nothing at all to threaten common checks and counters to Latios.

Terrakion does, but I wonder whether choosing the scarf variant will be the most beneficial to the team. As for now, I would support scarf, but in later stages of the project we might chance it.

[IAmAnHero]

I think Scarf Terrakion would be a good addition. It checks all of the things Jack said and if nothing else it'd give the team a way to revenge kill Extremekiller.

[lousy918]

why are we moving so fast? i thought it's just one pokemon at a time, its not like many agreed with Steelceus

[jackm]

We're not going "Oh, we'll take this, and this, and this, and this..."; rather, we're proposing partners. There's going to be a vote on each member of the team, not just agreement. Anyways, guys, we need to follow the CCAT format: before we officially submit team members, we need to come up with a checklist of all of the things that Latios requires to function at max capacity (you know, apart from sun). I posted that Terrakion set because I find that "Lation" works quite well in Ubers, for the benefit of the project as a whole if we're looking for an offensive core to work off of.

[lousy918]

Originally Posted by Fat lousy918

Agreed^^ although you left out T-tar and Genesect but heck

yeah *votes for a redo*

Despite most, if not all, of the posters going for Deoxys-S, I still feel we should give Skarmory a chance. Since we (apparently) have most Kyogre covered, we can use Skarmory to counter EKiller, plus Groudon without Fire moves and all Tyranitar, allowing Spikestacking.

Another thing are things that wall Dragceus. Lugia is one of them, being able to Whirlwind you out with ease. Skarmory, however, can generally set up Spikes on Lugia, since they don't carry attacks generally bar Ice Beam, which only does around 22%. Even better, if you opt for Taunt, you can stop SubRoost Status Shuffler cold. Although Deoxys-S has Taunt too, it, as a suicide lead, will usually be dead by that point.

Yet another advantage of using Skarmory is walling Outrage. Physical Scarfed Dragons, such as Zekrom and Garchomp, will be forced to predict correctly, and Garchomp can't anything even with prediction. If Zekrom were to Bolt Strike the mispredicted Skarmory, they risk getting swept by Dragceus, since their only revenge killer just died. Skarmory can set up hazards to further assist Dragceus' sweep, weakening its checks, the best example being Kyogre.

Another point I want to bring up is weather sweepers, or more specifically, Excadrill. Skarmory walls it to no end, and phazes it out. Granted, this allows him to spin, but he'll generally take Life Orb damage, so if you keep Spiking and he (stupidly) keeps spinning, and die eventually. With Rocky Helmet (refer to my RMT: www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3479183), his fainting rate will be sped up. If he dies to Life Orb or Rocky Helmet (if applicable), iirc hazards don't disappear. However, despite this, I still feel we should run a spinblocker.

EDIT: NINJA'D

change Dragceus to Latios, plus skarm resists Latios weaknesses except ice and vice versa