Tier Shift Metagame

[Gerard]

I have to say I love how the defensive boosts is pretty cool, with Atk/SpA gaining a plain +10 in stats while defenses increases by 10 Hp and 10 Def/SpD, less offensive stiles gain some very interesting tools

[Infernis]

I would join a tournament of this metagame in a heartbeat.

[UltiMario]

I like this idea.

[Lagalag4]

i can tell you guys this. Rain in this meta will rein.
Blastoise with Rain Dish... BEST spinner/defensive wall in this meta imo.
Pikachu with thunder... 458 SpA and 339 Spe :o
Banded Basculin... Adaptability, Banded, Rain boosted Aqua Jet. Now with 15 extra base Atk
Specs Tornadus-I... Base 116 Spe, Base 130 SpA STAB specs Hurricane.

These are some of the bigger threats i have found in rain this tier :)

[Magolor]

Originally Posted by Fat PureQuestion

Okay so a couple people have suggested this to me and a few more have responded positively so I'm gonna throw out a really ambitious question here:

If there were a Tier Shift Metagame Tournament, would you enter it?

I might just try and run one if there's enough interest.

I would myself, this whole thing seems like an interesting idea.

[sonicfan7895]

Originally Posted by Fat Magolor

I would myself, this whole thing seems like an interesting idea.

Me too! I found a whole lot of interestingly strong Pokemon in RU and NU:
Sceptile, Durant, Floatzel, Eelektross, Butterfree, Zangoose, Regice, Scyther, Huntail, Kecleon, Luxray, Marowak, Kangaskhan, Pinsir, Aerodactyl, and the list goes on.

Plus, I saw someone who said that the BL Tiers should get a boost too. Considering that BL is right between (almost) every Metagame tier, NU would become Ubers, RU would become OU, and all the BL Tiers would switch places with each other. :/ It sounds like an amazing idea, and I approve of it myself, but think for a moment and say to yourself,
"Hmm. He's right, it might be too overpowering... but to hell with that, let's suggest it anyway!"
I totally approve of that guy's idea! :D

[felix]

Even with this boost Persian is still lackluster :(

[NidoJosh]

I can really see a rise in Hail
I mean seriously look at Glaceon


80 HP / 75 Atk / 125 Def / 145 SpA / 110 SpD / 80 Spe

You can almost guarantee that something is going to die!
I don't think it's role will change at all however, just Blizzard spam while sporting either a Choice Specs or Choice Scarf.
Unfortunately it's speed is still mediocre and will cause it issues in trying to sweep, but maybe with the proper support it can easily plow through teams

||
Even Nidoking or Nidoqueen could be made into some of the more fearful Hail sweepers with access to Sheer Force Blizzard and other various powerful moves such as Thunderbolt, Earth Power, Fire Blast/Flamethrower and Sludge Wave

||
Regice and Wallrein will be even bulkier and more annoying under hail with their Ice Body abilities which could possibly lead to a rise in Hail stalling? With Ice Body, Leftovers, Substitute, Toxic Protect and Blizzard, it will be sure to cause many rages arising from the opponent if the pokemon are supported well enough

[sonicfan7895]

Sun definitely needs a mention, and some of the mediocre Fire-types laughed at by the likes of Heatran and Volcarona, as well as DW Ninetales all get this serious boost that can counter them all!

: 100/112/81/120/81/80 BST = 574
Becomes more powerful in the sun with Flash Fire
: 100/110/100/135/95/100 BST = 640
Wow! Look at this! More powerful than Mew, especially under the sun. One to be feared, but has relatively high Sp. Defense.
: 90/113/88/113/88/116 BST = 588
Great Physical or Special sweeper, depending on what set you use.

Just a few examples of sun Pokemon! :D

[WasSollDas]

OMG I just realized Ditto now gets 63 HP, which is not that terrible anymore.


Although defenses still suck (65/45/55), it has 85 speed which is a bit better to outspeed stuff.


Man, 90/115/110/55/85/125 is awesome, I hope this guy sees the light of OU once again :3


180/90/95/55/60/80. Best wish passer excluding bliss/chansey. 90 base attack isn't too shabby either.


Higher base special attack than reuniclus; it has 140 spatk! That's higher than some legendaries :O It's defenses are also decent, having 80/65/75 and benefitting from eviolite.


67/80/70/73/77/75. LOL


63/87/63/87/63/63. LOL #2

Too bad the last two still remain useless.
But yeah, I love this :D Gonna try it out some time for sure.

EDIT: One slightly bad thing I noticed is that defensive pokemon which use gyro ball (e.g. steelix) get a speed boost, which means gyro ball power is decreased (although slightly). Gyro ball is more common in UU/OU than in the lower tiers, which helps a bit.

[Zekey]

Yooo I would love to see Swanna in OU.

90 102 78 102 78 113 With Hydration, Surf and Hurricane.

The posible return of my boy Weezing.

80/105/135/100/85/75 Mmmm.

[AJC]

Zarel you need to add the standard clauses to this meta i just noticed on dev server that the only clause actually on is evasion ability clause.

[Super Mario Bro]

If we are going this route, then I think an interesting idea would be to bring back each Uber mon and subtract all of their base stats by fifteen points. I can't really think of anything that would be problematic with this change in the context of this meta. Plus, it would add some extra diversity and expand team building options.

[PureQuestion]

The problem with ubers is that the things that make them powerful are quite varied; certain pokemon would be hit a lot harder than others.

Kyogre would still be a superior Politoed in every single way, meanwhile Mewtwo would almost be a worse Alakazam.

Torn-T would be worthless. Genesect would be worthless. Excadrill would probably be worthless. Blaziken would be worthless. Darkrai. The Deoxys forms would be hit hard. Skymin, etc.

Ubers would need to be done with a lot more care to work out.

[Super Mario Bro]

Well, is adjusting the base stats of certain Ubers differently than others an option that's on the table? If so, I can work on it. It shouldn't be too hard, really.

[PureQuestion]

I think it would probably add unnecessary complications.

Though it would be interesting to go the opposite way, and have an Ubers version with +5s counting down from Ubers instead of OU (OU mons get +5, UU get +10, RU get +15, NU get +20).

I'm actually sort of scared of some of the pokemon that would be boosted by that, but it's certainly an interesting side meta...

(+15 Kabutops in ubers, *shiver*)

[sonicfan7895]

Originally Posted by Fat Super Mario Bro

Well, is adjusting the base stats of certain Ubers differently than others an option that's on the table? If so, I can work on it. It shouldn't be too hard, really.

That sounds like it would make it a whole lot more fair in some senses; however, some NU and RU Pokemon can make it up there with some Ubers;

: Can have almost enough Sp. Attack to be a second Mewtwo, just without the Speed and other high stats.

: A better Heatran; obviously higher Speed, higher HP and Attack. Not much, but it's the closest comparison I could find.

: This compares to the likes of Darkrai, as it is the only Dark-type legendary. Higher Attack, higher Speed, and equal HP, but has lower defenses. More frail.

: This can compare to the likes of Jellicent, Politoed, etc. when it comes to Rain Dancing Water-boosted S.T.A.B. moves. Higher attack and defense (obviously), and higher speed give it all the more reason to be here.

[Super Mario Bro]

Originally Posted by Fat PureQuestion

I think it would probably add unnecessary complications.

I doubt it would be complicated at all to understand or implement on the server. You could just link to a pastebin that would list these types of changes:

...

---

-30 in each stat:
Groudon
Kyogre

-20 in each stat:
Arceus (all formes)

-15 in each stat:
Giratina
Giratina-O

-10 in each stat:
Deoxys (all formes)
Darkrai
Dialga
Ho-Oh
Kyurem-W
Lugia
Manaphy
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Zekrom

-5 in each stat:
Blaziken
Excadrill
Genesect
Tornadus-T
Thundurus-I

We could obviously tinker with those positions, but I think that incorporating Ubers would make the format more varied and interesting.

[Joim]

That kind of changes are easy to implement thanks to PS easy modding.

[Infernis]

I love the idea of normalizing to Ubers instead. I can see Sawk and Throh becoming ultimate powerhouses at BST 585.

Sawk: 95/95/95 defenses aren't horrific, but 145 attack and 105 speed will leave many foes begging for mercy that shall not come.

Throh: 140/105/105 defenses are amazing, plus they're backed up by 120 attack. Still slow, though. With Circle Throw, this guy could become the premier shuffler/phazer of the metagame.

On that note, Hariyama looks swell.

Hariyama: 159/75/75 defenses are stellar, and 135 attack will leave holes everywhere.

But it probably makes more sense to tailor to particular Ubers 'mons. Kyogre is still going to crush everything without a major hit. (Though -30 to all stats is probably a bit much.)

[Scorpio]

Typholosion has 88/94/88/119/95/110. Choice Scarf Eruption to the face anyone?

Crustle has 80/105/135/75/85/55. It's Shell Smash just got better.

Emboar has 125/138/80/115/80/80. Finally, a perfect Fire-type partner for Bromoongus.

Electivire has 85/133/77/105/95/105.


GAME OVER RETURN OF ELECTIVIRE (too lazy to make the appropriate image).

[sonicfan7895]

Originally Posted by Fat Infernis

I love the idea of normalizing to Ubers instead. I can see Sawk and Throh becoming ultimate powerhouses at BST 585.

Sawk: 95/95/95 defenses aren't horrific, but 145 attack and 105 speed will leave many foes begging for mercy that shall not come.

Throh: 140/105/105 defenses are amazing, plus they're backed up by 120 attack. Still slow, though. With Circle Throw, this guy could become the premier shuffler/phazer of the metagame.

On that note, Hariyama looks swell.

Hariyama: 159/75/75 defenses are stellar, and 135 attack will leave holes everywhere.

But it probably makes more sense to tailor to particular Ubers 'mons. Kyogre is still going to crush everything without a major hit. (Though -30 to all stats is probably a bit much.)

I think that some of those Ubers are really going to be downgraded when it comes to stats, and when it comes to usage. Arceus for one, and Kyogre for another (although its rain capabilities are really going to hit hard, even WITH the downgrading). I was also wondering if BL Pokemon are getting boosts now?

[PureQuestion]

BL are getting boosts at the moment, yes.

I'm a far bigger fan of boosting up to ubers, than dropping ubers down to OU, partly because the fun and point of Ubers is that everything is ridiculous. Why not up the number of ridiculous pokemon?

[Super Mario Bro]

Yea, I love the idea of normalizing to Ubers instead of OU. It would be hilarious to see NUs and RUs walling the toughest Ubers.

I'd totally use Cryogonal to beat Giratina's face. No joke.

Also, 85 HP / 150 Atk / 120 Def / 120 SpDef Escavalier. Welp.

[Magcargo 2]

This is an interesting metagame.
Dusclops would have 45/75/135/65/135/30 base stats giving it great bulk and similar defenses to dusknoir.
Kingdra will have 80/100/100/100/100/90 base stats giving great bulk and making its STAB a bit more powerful.
Dusknoir will have 55/110/145/75/145/55 base stats making it way more viable as a spin blocker.
Golurk will have 104/139/95/70/95/70 base stats. This is pretty big as golurk now has okayish speed, massive attack and better defenses.
Exeguttor will have 110/110/100/140/80/70 base stats. With chlorophyll, exeguttor will be one of the best special sweepers.
Ninjask will have 76/105/60/65/65/175 base stats, increasing its viability as an offensive and supportive pokemon.
Eelektross will have 100/130/95/120/95/65 base stats which will give it increased bulk and its coverage moves will be more powerful.
Carracoasta will have 89/123/148/98/80/47 base stats. This will make an even better bulky attacker.
Gigalith will have 100/150/145/75/85/40 base stats making it another great bulky attacker.