Now is the time to commence voting on stats, the most important part of our competitive interaction with checks and counters considering out tying and primary ability.
This poll will be run with IRV voting, the details of which are outlined here. This means that you can vote for as many options as you like, and rank them by your preference. Be aware that order does matter in your votes! Make sure that you bold your votes and nothing else! A typical vote might look like the following:
Most Preferred Second Most Preferred Third Most Preferred
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This poll will be open for 24 hours starting from the post following this one.
When voting, use only the submitter's name! The entries have links below followed by a full quote beneath for your immediate reference. The list of possible votes includes (in order final submissions were posted):
83 HP / 92 Atk / 73 Def / 42 SpA / 156 SpD / 89 Spe (BST 535)
PT: 114.153 ST: 237.46 PS: 137.421 SS: 73.6857
Overall BSR: 305.962
Now, as everyone knows, I make Stats with a spread in mind.
CAP 5 @ Sitrus / Enigma Berry EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SpD Careful Stats: 370 HP / 245 Atk / 182 Def / 108 SpA / 425 SpD / 214 Spe. Potential Set: (Note: Movepool is not decided at this stage all moves are speculative.)
HP / Def / SpD:
The HP was selected primarily for the size of Wish, should CAP 5 get it. 83 is perfect for most sun threats, which lie in in the 73-80 range thanks to Veusaur and Ninetales, and of course Dugtrio would also appreciate a Wish. However, the HP is too small to really aid other playstyles. Most Rain Pokemon have more bulk in their HP and a far superior Wish option in Vaporeon, while many Sand threats like Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Landorus have HP's that start at 89 and climb up to and past 100. While CAP 5 is likely to invest in HP, it maxes at 370, which is enough for a 185 HP Wish. This is generally not enough healing for the very offensive Pokemon that eat HP through Life Orb (Terrakion/Keldeo's Base HP is 91, Hydreigon's 92, and most of the frailer Life Orbers are too, well, frail.) or for the very bulky invested defensive Pokemon like Politoed (Base 90), Vaporeon (Base 130), Jellicent/Tyranitar (Base 100), Hippowdon/Garchomp (Base 108), Mamoswine (Base 110), or Gastrodon (Base 111) of those styles.
To be sure such a Wish could still be used, but again Vaporeon is infinitely superior on Rain as a status-immune Wishpasser, and Sand Pokemon rarely get even 50% healing from CAP 5's Wish, nor do they like the additional Ice and Fighting weaknesses (along with limited offensive presence) CAP 5 would bring to their teams. Ground and Water resistances along with Dark STAB are not as helpful on a team with Landorus and Tyranitar as they are on a Sun team.
Def / SpD:
This left Defense and Special Defense, and I particularly like what these calcs do with Sitrus Berry or Enigma Berry.
Focus Blast will always activate Sitrus / Enigma Berry, Ice Beam will never 2HKO, and in fact Enigma Berry heals more than Sitrus would reduce damage.
Latios (OU Choice [Choice Specs]) HP Fire (Sun) 51.89 - 61.62% Draco Meteor 51.35 - 60.81%
Latios will also trigger Sitrus Berries with DM or Sun-Boosted HP Fire, while boosted HP Fire would also trigger Enigma Berry.
I'll get to why these berries are better than LumRest when I get into Attack. the summary is that CAP5 needs the stated Attack investment for the guaranteed 2HKO on Latias, so although you could Max/Max+ CAP 5 and try to tank with LumRest, Latias would start presenting problems.
An interesting note is how CAP 5 interacts with Landorus-T, which can technically 2HKO CAP 5 through Sitrus on this spread. The Calc is:
Landorus-T (OU Rock Polish) Stone Edge 59.45 - 70% Earthquake 44.32 - 52.43%
So if Earthquake hits 48, and then 52 it can KO. It can't KO through hazards though, and Stone Edge cannot 2HKO through Sitrus, though it can through Enigma as it isn't SE. Scarf Lando OHKOs with U-turn and Superpower both.
To address why LumRest will not be overpowered with such a high ST, I have tried to build this set to raise the viability of other berries, and additionally I have engineered it so that specific support moves that may be useful later will benefit primarily Sun Pokemon. To do this I had to lower HP and raise Special Defense. I think as a pivot to glue Sun together, Wish is a perfectly viable move to consider when creating a spread, and the lower HP compared to defenses makes Horn Leech marginally more formidable as a STAB because it heals an absolute number of HP. The general physical frailty also allows Pokemon with as low as 100 Base Attack like Scarf Victini to have a minimum 97% Chance to OHKO with U-turn.
Finally about the actual SpD number. Defenses in Pokemon have a lot more latitude than other stats. Several Pokemon have 150+ Physical defenses and are not even close to overpowered (Aggron, Cloyster, Steelix, Bastiodon, Regirock), I'm essentially trying to create a Pokemon like that with an emphasis on Special Defense.
For a more full picture, here are selections from this spread's Defensive Calcs:
Now for an explanation on relevant offenses. Basically, I did not want CAP 5 to have a viable Choice Band set, so I set its Attack to below 95, and its Speed to below 90. At 89 Speed, Politoed would have to invest 156 EVs to outrun CAP 5. Politoed is not going to give up over half its EVs in bulk on a Specs Set just to hit CAP 5 twice under any realistic scenario. 89 Is also an excellent speed because of several threats sitting just above it at 90 Speed, Lucario and Roserade - both have Super-effective STAB attacks against CAP 5, and Roserade also has Sun Weather Ball. By making it impossible for CAP 5 to tie these Pokemon, the viability of any choice set is reduced.
The maximum speed is also important here, as a +Spe CAP5 can outrun +SpA Hydreigon - and it will have a few EVs to spare to invest in offense or defenses. The speed also comfortably outruns all defensive variants of Rotom-W. In order to outspeed all +Spe Base 70s, 104 EVs are needed. The final off-effect is is makes certain CB Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball always OHKOs, though the standard Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball cannot 2HKO through Sitrus and rarely through Leftovers.
As far as the attack itself, it can take on Latios fairly easily, but it needs investment to really take on Latias. Here are a few relevant STAB Calcs assuming offensive coverage of Power Whip / Crunch /Low Kick (as a move over Wish or Spin) / and the mentioned EVs (245 Atk):
Given the general power of LumRest, I have devised an additional Sun Support set that is more offensive in nature.
CAP 5 @ Lum Berry EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD Careful Stats: 337 HP / 283 Atk / 182 Def / 108 SpA / 420 SpD / 214 Spe. Potential Set: (Note: Movepool is not decided at this stage all moves are speculative.)
A set designed with CM Latias in mind. It is capable of switching in, setting up sun, and avoiding a 2HKO from Sun-boosted HP Fire. Should you come in on the Calm Mind in the Sun, use Rest immediately, since you can survive the 2HKO, but it's less likely with hazard damage. If Latias goes for the second CM, Punishment effortlessly OHKO's it. In any other weather, use Sunny Day to get your sun back. Horn Leech is a bit riskier since it gets only marginal healing. The best part is, even though you're opening up the fire weakness in Sunny Day, Harvest makes this set work because it essentially makes Lum Berry permanent. If you set up Sun you will always be status immune, even if you get statused before or after Rest. The Lum Berry will always grow back. Additionally since there are so may Sun Pokemon with Sunny Day, and CAP5 offers a suitable threat to Tyranitar (Low Kick would be needed to OHKO, however Horn Leech 2HKOs CBTar after SR. It requires some smart play, but since Sunny Day activates after Tar switches in, overpowering it with your Sun special attackers will be easier. You can also Sub to eat the first Superpower, and then Horn Leech comfortably 2HKOs. There is some 4MSS syndrome, but the idea here is pick your targets. Punishment/Crunch beats Latis, Low Kick beats Tar, Horn Leech expedites beating Toed and is generally the most helpful.)
This set has to be more wary of Specs Latios, since Specs DM can 2HKO with Hazards up, so unlike the first set (assuming Sitrus) it can't come in with impunity [this is arguably an asset overall], however it can tank the attack if it is already in, and Punishment does cleanly 2HKO all variants of Latios. The low PP is an issue, but Horn Leech on the other end addresses that.
Once in, this set threatens Politoed with a combination of status immunity and healing, being able to shrug off even SpecsToed attacks via Horn Leech healing enough to keep out of KO range (watch out for Focus Blast's SpD drop.) It's true Politoed can try and outspeed with 156 EVs in Spe and 100 in HP, which will allow it to avoid a chance of OHKO after Stealth Rock (and KO CAP 5 with Ice Beam if SR is on our side of the field) - but that's a generally assinine thing to do because absolutely nothing valuable but CAP 5 sits at 214 Spe. It won't stop people from trying it, but it causes Politoed to lose to other things. You can circumvent this entirely by running 148 Atk and 104 Spe EVs, but that makes the matchup with CM Latias harder by allowing Latias to Recover-stall out Punishment's PP reliably - it needs the BP boost to reliably 2HKO.
In general with LumRest, do not assume you can switch in unscathed. Unlike Sitrus, the set doesn't have anything approximating passive healing, so it can tank easily once in, but is harder to get in safely against highly specific, damage-boosted threats.
The set itself is much more a hybrid of offense and defense. It rarely gets OHKOs, however it has a multitude of 2HKOs and its Horn Leech can break SubDisable Gengar's Sub. Here are some relevant offensive and defensive calcs:
I'm trying not to be too overgrown in the calcs, but I think its important to represent threats that may rise based on CAP 5's usage, and in this set particularly since it offers sun support. While it could theoretically be used as a Spinner in other weathers, as you see from the defensive calculations, LumRest is hardly invulnerable (and HATES HP loss from Sandstorm), and even if you used the more defensive spread above, you still have a lot of issues due to limited power. This set is particularly good for picking off the Psychic-type Calm Minders in the metagame, and using a combination of Lum Rest and Horn Leech on switch-ins to stay healthy. Low Kick could be used over Sunny Day or even Horn Leech to change some matchups (particularly against Tyranitar and other Dark types, but as you can see from the offensive calculations, even EVs for Attack CAP 5 is not even remotely close to a sweeper.
This spread steps all over Lati@s and Politoed, but does so in a way that affords it few other niches. It is not strong enough to be an offensive powerhouse. Its speed acts much better as a floor than it does a ceiling. It does not have enough physical bulk to be a general wall. Its entire spread is geared around support to and from Sun Pokemon with the maximum number of potential options.
Aesthetically it is actually rather balanced, having a huge special defense offset by a small but existent Special Attack exactly 50 points below its Attack. It is a Pokemon geared around a single defining strong point customized to aid a specific style of play, and I hope it earns your votes.
- - - - - 2/8
Originally Posted by Fat capefeather
"Vaporeon of the sun"
95 HP / 100 Atk / 60 Def / 50 SpA / 130 SpD / 65 Spe
I say "Vaporeon of the sun" because I used the Eeveelution base stats as a base and adjusted them. When Harvest won the poll, I knew I wanted to use Vaporeon as a base. However, I guess that this result is kind of different from Vaporeon... Anyway, because of this methodology, this spread:
only has one stat over 100! Outstanding
has a lower BST than Kitsunoh! Excellent
works with the ability we chose! ~SPARKLING~
The last point is very, very important to the reasoning behind this submission, so please keep it in mind!
HP / Defense
Let's get the less important stuff out of the way first. With this spread, CAP 5 is a bit bulkier physically than the defensive titan that is Shiftry, and less bulky physically than Latios. This is enough to avoid 2HKOs from unboosted resisted attacks like Choice Scarf Landorus Therian's Earthquake without any investment, but not much else. I know that some people have a bit more than this to have options for shenanigans with physical defensive sets, but I'm not sure of how important that is. FWIW, though, here are some things this spread can do with maximum investment:
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 160-189 (40.6 - 47.96%) -- 9.38% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 240-283 (60.91 - 71.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 272-324 (69.03 - 82.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Flying Gem Jumpluff Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 308-366 (78.17 - 92.89%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Caterpie Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 192-228 (48.73 - 57.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Now, a few other spreads have more physical bulk, selling themselves on customization, but from these calculations, it seems clear to me that a majority of the clutch situations are achieved even by submissions like this one. I mean, even Shiftry technically can survive Choice Band Haxorus's Outrage. So it doesn't really take a whole lot to be "customizable" in this way. At the same time, it seems it would take more than other spreads have to make these situations better than clutch.
HP / Special Defense
So now for the important part. I wouldn't be surprised if my submission became the one of the least specially bulky of the bunch, but it's still well above Latias's level. Check it out, the most relevant damage calculations for this spread (and possibly others):
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 205-243 (52.03 - 61.67%)
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 103-123 (26.14 - 31.21%)
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 179-212 (45.43 - 53.8%)
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 90-107 (22.84 - 27.15%)
This spread has barely enough bulk to take on Stealth Rock damage and two Draco Meteors from Life Orb Latios and live to tell about it... if it runs maximum EVs and a Careful nature. I have intentionally made it so that this spread cannot reliably take on Choice Specs Latios in the same way. In fact, the median damage for two Choice Specs Draco Meteors is 337, just shy of the 345 HP that 252 HP CAP 5 would have after Stealth Rock damage. 125 SpD would have put the median at 346.
The reason for this is simple: I want to force CAP 5 to use Harvest intelligently to do its job based on the rest of the team's needs. If CAP 5 wants to take on Choice Specs Latios's Draco Meteor reliably, it must use a Sitrus Berry, which will supercharge its effective tanking ability to ridiculous levels. It would also help against Life Orb special attackers, since it's not like CAP 5 will come in at full HP guaranteed. Alternatively, take Lum Berry to counter defensive variants of Politoed and Wash Rotom, and let Choice Specs Latios 2HKO you. I mentioned the median because I want the matchup against Choice Specs to have a similar probability of CAP 5's survival between having no Sitrus Berry (a bit above 50%) and not having sun up (50%).
A major benefit with this approach is that the consistency of Harvest ends up mattering a lot more. I'm actually kind of bewildered at the idea of high Fantastic or even Amazing grade special bulk. Consider that a more defensive Pokemon will eat more turns, which means that the inconsistency of Harvest outside of sun is less harmful to a more defensive Pokemon than it is to a less defensive Pokemon. With this more focused spread, the sun becomes that much more important to the usefulness of Harvest as an ability on a sun team, as well as the usefulness of the sun team to Harvest. Besides, does a sun team really need a Pokemon that can completely and utterly counter Latios/Latias and defensive Water-types simultaneously?
A prevailing attitude that I've been seeing is that Harvest is a dangerous and unpredictable ability, therefore we should be very careful, even paranoid, about every aspect of CAP 5 going forward. I disagree with that view. I hope that I have convinced you that the best way to get the most out of the actual concept is to make the best use of its ability. For me, that means making Harvest part of the balancing process, rather than balancing in spite of Harvest. Harvest is our friend, not our enemy, and I feel that some people who were really against Harvest in the ability stage are missing this point.
The Attack achieves the following:
0 Atk (custom) Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 206-246 (68.21 - 81.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk (custom) Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 188-224 (51.64 - 61.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0+ Atk (custom) Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 228-270 (75.49 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (needs 24 EVs to KO after Stealth Rock and one turn of Life Orb recoil)
On Latios, the first calculation is a guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and two turns of Life Orb recoil. Power Whip also does decently enough against Water-types, should we choose to give it to CAP 5:
0 Atk (custom) Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 326-386 (84.89 - 100.52%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk (custom) Power Whip vs. 184 HP / 4 Def Rotom-W: 242-288 (84.32 - 100.34%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk (custom) Power Whip vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 242-288 (60.04 - 71.46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk (custom) Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 296-350 (91.35 - 108.02%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk (custom) Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 284-336 (87.65 - 103.7%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk (custom) Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 236-282 (58.41 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I don't see a compelling reason to give CAP 5 much more Attack than this. I gave Necturna 120 Attack because it mattered for coverage moves. The highest Attack on a Grass-type with Power Whip is 105. I don't see a reason to exceed that for CAP 5. If you want to beat defensive stuff like defensive Politoed and Wash Rotom without risking a burn, just use Lum Berry...
Overall special tanking capability
Let's see how CAP 5 fares against some of our other targets:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 202-238 (51.26 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 158-188 (40.1 - 47.71%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom) in sun: 270-320 (68.52 - 81.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 173-204 (43.9 - 51.77%) -- 9.77% chance to 2HKO
+1 4 SpA Latias Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom) in sun: 148-176 (37.56 - 44.67%) -- 3.91% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 230-270 (58.37 - 68.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 127-150 (32.23 - 38.07%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 211-250 (53.55 - 63.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 107-126 (27.15 - 31.97%) -- 66.09% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Politoed Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 130-154 (32.99 - 39.08%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 122-144 (30.96 - 36.54%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Fully invested CAP 5 can take most of Choice Specs Politoed's attacks pretty well. It also survives the strongest attack that Calm Mind Latios can muster against it after a boost, which is enough time to bring it into Life Orb kill range with 80 Base Power STAB. Now, Calm Mind Latias does have a slight chance to 2HKO with Hidden Power Fire after Stealth Rock, but by then you know it's not running Substitute. It's just not a reliable way to break through a sun team that probably also has Heatran, and CAP 5 could always be running Sitrus Berry, too!
The rest of the calculations are for investment in HP only, and it shows that CAP 5 could feasibly sacrifice its ability to tank the very strongest attacks it would typically switch into, in order to put those EVs and nature to use elsewhere (and of course there's always Sitrus Berry, too). CAP 5 does not need much to KO Latios with the help of passive damage. It can still mostly tank Choice Scarf variants of Politoed and Keldeo, as well as Choice Specs Keldeo unless it uses an easily exploitable Ice-type move. So while my submission is rather minimalist in comparison to other submissions, it retains some semblance of customization, especially with an ability as versatile as Harvest.
I originally went with 75 base Speed, but ultimately 65 sounds a lot more sensible. 65 is fast enough to have the option to outrun Lati@s with a Choice Scarf, but slow enough that it has to play the speed creeping game against threats like Scizor, Politoed, Skarmory and Jellicent... at least, if it cares to, at the cost of some of its bulk. Creeping Politoed is a good option to have because, unlike Latios, it has Drizzle, and as I've said, one of the goals of this submission is to make the consistency of Harvest matter in CAP 5's run-ins with these powerful attackers. Latios may very well be in the sun, while Politoed likely won't be.
Of course, the most important stat is Special Attack. CAP 5's special attacking prowess is very important when it comes to dealing with certain threats, but of course we need to be careful about this. At 50, CAP 5's Special Attack exceeds that of the mighty Weavile, which 2HKOes Scizor and Forretress with Hidden Power Fire after Stealth Rock damage. However, I was careful not to let it outdo the monstrous Ferrothorn, because that would just be madness.
I'm aware that I'm probably taking some significant risks here, but I am anticipating a wave of similar spreads that are similar to each other, and I feel that it would benefit the process as a whole to have this option available. I'm not sure there's anything I could really change about this submission without messing something up.
- - - - - 3/8
Originally Posted by Fat Birkal
Co-written by Birkal and ginganinja
115 HP / 100 Atk / 60 Def / 40 SpA / 130 SpD / 55 Spe
Let's chat about Speed. I chose 55 Spe (same as Machamp and Blissey) because it's essentially useless, but can have use if you're looking to do something specific. Max speed hits 209 or 229, depending on whether you run a boosting nature or not. Essentially, you can choose to outrun uninvested Tyranitar, Politoed, and even Heatran if you like. I think it's healthy to have some utility for speed, because it allows CAP 5 to outspeed specific threats if the team calls for it, but does not force it. If your sun team has problems with Bulky Politoed, it might not be amiss to invest in that extra speed to beat it. It's definitely not as optimal as investing in bulk, but the option is available to keep opponents on their toes.
Naturally, it outspeeds defensive threats like Ferrothorn, Chansey, Forretress, Bronzong, Donphan, Reuniclus, Hippowdon, and Slowbro. This is also better than some of the spreads that completely sacrifice speed to favor other sets; those spreads will likely require EVs to outspeed some of these threats to use whatever support moves it may have.
• • •
The focus of my spread is that CAP 5 will have to choose what it wants to beat with its EVs and berry selection. You can outpace some of those defensive threats if you choose to invest in the EVs. Otherwise, you can invest in some bulk. Below are some calculations that work off of two spreads: Physically Bulky and Specially Bulky. Both assume sunlight.
There's a lot of cool stuff you can do with this spread defensively. Notably, you can survive against non-Specs Keldeo and CB Haxorus Outrage. Combine this with the possibilities of Harvest with LumRest, pinch berries, or Cutsap Berry, and there are some effective tactics you can pull off here. Going physically bulky doesn't sacrifice special bulk either. CAP 5 can still hold its own against most variants of Politoed and tank any hit from Latios. This spread allows CAP 5 to be an overall stop to many offensive threats while under the sun (the ones listed above are merely the close calls; CAP 5 can wall a plethora of other moves with this spread), which is something most sun teams would appreciate greatly in a defensive pivot.
This set sacrifices some situations against physical attackers for sheer special bulk. Going toe-to-toe with Latios is no small feat, but this set accomplishes it. Specs HP Fire in the sun is the only move that can 2HKO, which takes a lot of relief off of sun teams in particular. SubCM Latias is useless against this set, especially in tandem with Lum Berry under the sun. It even has the potential to take on Heatran in the sun, which is pretty impressive, considering CAP 5 is Grass-type. All special attackers are forced into Focus Blast if they're looking for a 2HKO, and that gives sun teams some flexibility in terms of fishing for a miss or misprediction.
Berry Specific Calculations
252 HP / 72 Def / 180+ SDef
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Hidden Power Fire 50.23 - 59.44%
4 HP / 0 SpD
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Hidden Power Fire 73.65 - 87.09%
Type Resistant Berries:
252 HP / 252 Def+ @ Tanga Berry
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn 85.71 - 100.92%
The above spreads are more of me and ginganinja messing around with CAP 5's tanking abilities more than anything. The exception is the Sitrus set; a spread of 252 HP / 180+ SpD can be utilized to guarantee its activation after Latios uses Hidden Power Fire on the switch in. It's a legitimate spread for those considering Sitrus Berry, and allows you to allocate a bit more into defense as a mixed wall. Pinch berries are plausible if you have a very specific goal in mind for CAP 5, but typically they are inferior to other sets due to their risky nature. We partially intended it that way; we don't want CAP 5 to go for a sweep. However, the option is available if you need to get in one last Rapid Spin with Cutsap. Finally, those resist berry are silly calculations, but we thought it'd be good to include them just to show how versatile you can get with berries if you really want to suit a specific need on your sun team. With Tanga Berry, for example, CAP 5 can survive any U-turn in the game with a defensive spread. You can also use Chople to get a leg up on Terrakion, and Occa to cement a victory against Heatran. We even included a calculation for Yache Berry against Kyurem-W, and CAP 5 can still tank Choice Specs Blizzard with ease. These stats are pretty much novelty, but they affirm to us that CAP 5 is ridiculously good as is, which is why we're against making it even better with higher speed and attack stats.
• • •
And now, for some offensive calculations. These are all presumed on the defensive sets. I hope we have no intention of CAP 5 getting any set up moves, so I'm working without any EV investment in Attack. I didn't run any Special Attack calculations, because it is more or less useless. HP Fire under the sun can 2HKO Scizor, I think. But we're slower than any set it's going to run besides Life Orb Swords Dance, and +2 Bullet Punch isn't going to be a lot of fun for CAP 5 anyways.
2HKOs pretty much all bulky waters. 2HKOs both Latis. That suits our Threats Discussion pretty darn well. I don't want to raise this any higher, because it's mostly unnecessary. Again, CAP 5 can choose to invest Atk EVs to net some OHKOs, but it's generally going to want to tank the hits and retaliate back with its excellent STABs. This attack stat capitalizes on the offensive preciseness that our STABs give us in terms of what we wish to threaten. We threaten just that, and not much else.
- - - - - 4/8
Originally Posted by Fat reachzero
100 HP / 105 Atk / 55 Def / 50 SpA / 140 SpD / 65 Spe (BST 515)
I felt it was important to give CAP5 the ability to do what it had to do working with the most natural EV spread possible--252 HP/252 SpD/6 (anything) Careful--while putting it in the right ballpark in terms of speed to move up to speed-creep what it chooses to, while retaining its capacity to meet its baseline goals (i.e., beating Lati@s and Politoed).
For instance, one could choose to speed-creep the major benchmark for OU slow Pokemon (CB Tar, Jellicent, Specs Toed, etc.), 180, by investing to get up to 181 speed. This would produce the following spread, the subject of all future damage calculations.
CAP 5@ Lum Berry EVs: 252 HP / 196 SpD / 60 Spe Careful Stats:404 HP / 246 Atk / 146 Def / 122 SpA / 401 SpD / 181 Spe
HP / Def / SpD:
100 HP/140 SpD gives CAP5 a clear and emphatic focus on taking special attacks, allowing it to tank Latios' Draco Meteor without a problem (50% - 58.9%). Latios can't guarantee a 2HKO with Life Orb HP Fire in Sun (43.6% - 51.5%). Since this spread can 2HKO even max HP Latias, this ensures that CAP5 will virtually always beat the Lati@s twins. This spread also means that CAP5 does great against Politoed, taking only 27.2% - 32.2% from Modest Specs Hydro Pump, and only 39.1% - 46% even if switching in on Specs Ice Beam. On the other hand, SpD Heatran does 46.5% - 55.4% in Sun to CAP5 with Lava Plume, meaning that CAP5 cannot stall out Heatran, an important consideration when discussing very large STank numbers (barring Leech Seed, which we'll talk about in the movepool stage, no doubt).
100 HP/55 Def gives up PTank comparable to that of Tentacruel, another Pokemon focused on SpD. Obviously Scizor can OHKO it easily with U-turn, but can also 2HKO it with Bullet Punch (64.9% - 76.5%) even if CAP5 is faster. Switching into CB Tyranitar is not an option, as CAP5 takes 44.1% - 52% from Choice Band Crunch and OHKOed by Stone Edge, but CAP5 could switch easily into SpD Tyranitar or weak attackers like Hippowdon.
Making CAP5 much weaker in its physical defenses means that many Pokemon can severely threaten it with even neutral attacks, while allowing it to wall the threats it is designed to counter.
Attack / Speed:
105 base attack is a logical number in that it allows CAP5 to 2HKO max HP Latias with uninvested Crunch (54.4% - 64.3%) and possibly OHKO max HP Politoed with Power Whip (89.1% - 105.2%). CAP5 2HKOs physically defensive Jellicent with Power Whip (68.48 - 80.89%). Interestingly, 105 is just enough attack to break SubCM Jirachi's Subs most of the time, doing (24.5 - 28.96%) to max HP Jirachi with Crunch.
65 Speed is carefully chosen. With no speed investment, CAP5 would naturally outspeed similarly uninvested Tyranitar and Jellicent, and tie with Scizor and Vaporeon. More importantly, it lets CAP5 get right into the middle of the speed creep game with Politoed, Tyranitar, Jellicent, Scizor, etc. Politoed can outcreep CAP5 by virtue of being naturally faster, but in the process will end up giving up a lot of bulk that will make it easier to kill for the rest of CAP5's team. I feel that 65 is an excellent fit in terms of dealing with the threats we have chosen, while remaining slower than Heatran. This is one of the major distinctives of my stat spread.
(thanks to Deck Knight, from whom I shamelessly pilfered the format)
This spread allows CAP5 to hands-down counter the Lati@s twins and Politoed, while opening the door for physical threats to hurt it badly even with neutral attacks. It has enough attack to handily dispose of the threats it covers, but not enough to attack everything indiscriminately. Its speed is exactly sufficient to cover the slower section of OU, where Politoed and many of the other Water-type denizens dwell. It maintains a comfortably sane BST, 515, a number already familiar from a Pokemon with a similar role, Tentacruel. This is a stat spread you can believe in, that you can leave as a legacy for your children.
- - - - - 5/8
Originally Posted by Fat nyttyn
100 HP / 80 Atk / 50 Def / 35 SpA / 120 SpD / 115 Spe
90.5701 PT Below Average
206.906 ST Fantastic
141.278 PS Good
70.8094 SS Poor
271.346 BSR Good
For starters, let's look at this spread's defenses: 90/50/120. This spread is going to survive resisted physical attacks, but will pretty much fall over and die if an especailly strong neutral STAB or a SE attack so much as sneezes on it. And that's fine - it has amazing special bulk to make up for that. Special bulk which allows us to eat the attacks from those nasty water types and Latis.
Relevant calcs off of 252 HP:
Specially defensive side: Choice Specs Latios: 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 294-346 (72.77 - 85.64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock Choice Specs Poltioed: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom) in rain: 161-189 (39.85 - 46.78%) -- 37.11% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock Choice Specs Politoed: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom): 286-338 (70.79 - 83.66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock Choice Scarf Keldeo: 252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD (custom) in rain: 126-148 (31.18 - 36.63%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
As you can see, CAP5 can easily stomach the attacks we wish for it to stomach and then easily slough off the damage with sitrus berry recovery or lumrest spam. The only real concern lies in Focus Blast, but we can at worst lumrest stall it until we get a miss, at which point we can flat out OHKO.
Physically defensive side: Choice Band Tyranitar: 252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 477-562 (118.06 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO Standard Landorus-T: 64+ Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom): 198-234 (49 - 57.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock DragonDanceSub Gyarados: 248+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def (custom) in rain: 181-213 (44.8 - 52.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
As you can see, we can't really stomach the high-power hits that things with extreme power off the bat like Tyranitar have, but we can handle cases like Landorus-T or Gyarados where we resist it well enough. Not that we really need to stomach high-power physical hits - that's not CAP5's job, and letting it stand up to Choice Band Tyranitar's Stone Edge with 0 Def investment is too much considering CAP5's speed.
On Lack of Special Tankyness
You'll notice my spread is kind of lacking in special tankyness - this is intentional. When you use this spread variant of CAP5, you have to make a decision - do you want to go for a 252 HP / 252 SpDef spread and eat more attacks, or do you want to go for a 252 Hp / 252 Spe spread and gain the speed advantage?
Relevant calcs off of 252 HP / 252 SpDef: Choice Specs Latios: 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 219-258 (54.2 - 63.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock Choice Specs Politoed: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom) in rain: 120-141 (29.7 - 34.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock Choice Specs Poltioed: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom): 214-252 (52.97 - 62.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock Choice Scarf Keldeo: 252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (custom) in rain: 93-110 (23.01 - 27.22%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
It only has 80 attack because it really only needs 80 attack - any more and it's going to risk going in a direction we did not intend.
Relevant calcs: Latios/Latias: 0 Atk (custom) Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 174-206 (57.61 - 68.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock Calm Mind Latias: 0 Atk (custom) Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 156-186 (42.85 - 51.09%) -- 61.33% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock Bulky Politoed: 0 Atk (custom) Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 186-222 (48.43 - 57.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock Choice Specs Politoed: 0 Atk (custom) Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 272-324 (70.83 - 84.37%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock Choice Scarf Keldeo: 0 Atk (custom) Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 236-278 (72.83 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
As you can see we, with zero investment, murder everything we desire to murder with 80 Attack quite well - the only iffy one is Calm Mind Latias, and even then it isn't exactly safe to start Calm Minding it up with both the risk of critical hits and crunch's defense drop. The odds are in the CAP5 user's favor as well, with Crunch not only having more PP, but also giving them about 24 chances at doing it, while the Latias user will only be able to occasionally sneak in a Calm Mind.
As a side note, if one is willing, it takes exactly 70 attack EVs to always 2HKO CM Latias in every scenario, which means if that particular pokemon is a issue, then that's a option to take to constantly 2hko it.
Finally, the Speed was selected in order to always outspeed Latios and Latias who lack a Choice Scarf with 252 EVs and a Jolly nature. That's...pretty much it, really. Nothing else is relevant, since all this spread is concerned about is outspeeding Latios and Latias. However this also means CAP5 has drastically more options to spin or heal, which in turn gives it much more use then a slower spread on the aggressive, momentum-based nature of Sun teams.
However, there's still the option of ignoring that and going fully into bulk if you so desire.
craptacular physical defense
live resisted hits and meh to medium neutral, die to strong stab neutral, die to weakness
great special defense
speed racer, outspeed latis
115 spe looks nice and doesn't outspeed anything relevant past the latis
don't bother with meaty wishes, CAP5 will never have the time to do it. Spread discourages them in fact, this is good
no awkward stat #s. 0s and 5s baby!
2hko every lati set except calm mind, still a 60% chance of 2hkoing calm mind after rocks
shrug off the damage with lumrest
survive at least one specs meteor with a comfy coushin of HP left
eat two sitrus afterwards and then you have enough HP to survive another meteor, giving you a chance to retaliate
This spread was designed with Forretress, Starmie, and Tentacruel in mind and is a sort of combination of the three (but tweaked a bit to account for our goals of targeting Lati@s and Politoed and fitting neatly into sun-based teams). I feel they are good Pokemon to draw inspiration from, as they all fulfill that pivoting role well and with unique applications, not to mention the Rapid Spin connection. From Tentacruel and Forretress, I picked up their "good enough" attacking stats and specialized defenses, while Starmie's influence bred a high Speed stat as a utility method. In molding the stats I had to consider their weaknesses as well: Forry is actually quite underwhelming for sun teams as its poor speed causes players to lose momentum almost instantaneously when it's out on the field, and Starmie lacks the bulk enough to switch into multiple attacks, despite its access to both recovery and Natural Cure. My aim with this spread was to patch up those issues and make a smart, well-built defensive utility Pokemon that could potentially give sun more synergistic options than Forretress/Donphan to Rapid Spin, or to give sun a defensive teammate that better suits its strategy of high speed and continuous momentum. You can call it "Starmie of the Sun" or "Tentacruel of the sun," which would both be accurate descriptions, but really this spread puts CAP somewhere in between.
4 Atk EV CAP5 Pursuit/Crunch/Sucker Punch vs. 4/0 Latios: 57.6% - 68.2%
"..." vs. 252/0 Latias: 43.4% - 51.6%
"..." vs. 4/0 Gengar: 83.2% - 98.5% (85.5% - 101.5% w/ 32 Atk EVs)
"..." vs. 0/0 Ninetales: 32.4% - 38%
"..." vs. 252/120 Ninetales: 26.6% - 31.1%
4 Atk EV CAP5 Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Politoed: 48.4% - 57.8%
"..." vs. 252/0 Politoed: 70.8% - 84.4%
"..." vs. 4/0 Politoed: 84.5% - 100.6%
"..." vs. 4/0 Terrakion: 72.8% - 85.8%
"..." vs. 180/0 Tyranitar: 51.8% - 61.1%
"..." vs. 252/0 Tyranitar: 49.5% - 58.4%
252 Atk EV CAP5 Pursuit/Crunch/Sucker Punch vs. 4/0 Latios: 75.5% - 89.4%
"..." vs. 252/0 Latias: 56.6% - 67.6%
"..." vs. 0/0 Ninetales: 41.8% - 49.5%
"..." vs. 252/120 Ninetales: 29.4% - 35.1%
252 Atk EV CAP5 Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Politoed: 64.1% - 75.5%
"..." vs. 252/0 Politoed: 93.8% - 110.9%
"..." vs. 4/0 Politoed: 111.8% - 132.3%
"..." vs. 4/0 Terrakion: 95.1% - 113%
"..." vs. 180/0 Tyranitar: 67.4% - 79.8%
"..." vs. 252/0 Tyranitar: 64.4% - 76.2%
The Attack is low compared to the OU metagame as a whole, but it threatens our three primary targets enough for a defensive pivot, enough to foil any of their plans of setting up or overwhelming CAP with sheer force (granted CAP holds a Sitrus or Lum Berry with Rest). The defenses and primary ability support the lower Atk by allowing CAP to tank even Specs Latios Draco Meteor with just 252 HP EVs (regardless of Stealth Rock). CAP can then either Rest before it strikes again at -2, or it can Pursuit for the 2HKO on a predicted switch. Bulky Latias is a bother for Jolly 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe spreads, but the damage calcs indicate that CAP can at the very least stall out its Recovers as it 3HKOs. Jolly 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe builds can cleanly 2HKO Latias while only taking 37.8% - 44.6% from +1 Dragon Pulse (at the cost of surviving Specs Latios with rocks up). This is a pretty fair trade-off, and should get players to make tough decisions on allocating EVs. I am assuming an absence of stat-boosting moves in the movepool, as that appears to be the consensus, so the 80 base Atk won't be overwhelming much of anything that isn't weak to its STABs.
The Special Attack is functionally non-existent, only low enough to fit the established stat limits. It's not even enough to scare Scizor in the Sun with HP-Fire, so we won't have to worry about messing up our threatlist with a usable Hidden Power. It's lower than I'd like it to be for optics reasons, but competitively it fits our community desires. It's a dump stat, like everyone else's SpA, so it will facilitate Jolly, Impish, and Careful natures.
As others have said, there is a certain advantage to outrunning the Latis as it relates to Harvest, even if CAP can't OHKO them. The main advantage of course is its utility on a defensive Pokemon, akin to Latias, Deoxys-D, Froslass, Fidgit, etc. With six weaknesses, notably to U-turn, and with the pressure of coming in on Latios time and again without a Dragon resist, CAP will certainly appreciate the breathing room that high speed provides to perform a support move or pick off stubborn, weakened foes. It may even have the chance to U-turn out first (should it get U-turn) on a U-turning switch-in and safely rotate to a teammate that resists it (an especially useful trait if CAP can Rest/Spin as the opponent switches in). It could also use the enticing Fast-Taunt/Encore to prevent opponents from setting up, should it get those moves.
The Speed is all about defensive utility. As I said before, sun teams currently have only Forretress and Donphan to choose from as Rapid Spinners go, and both of them really frustrate the fast-paced sun strategy; they are slow, offensively underwhelming walls and are easy setup for opposing threats. As it stands, sun teams really have no options for a fast or specially bulky Rapid Spinner like Rain or weatherless teams have with Starmie and Tentacruel, who can both maintain momentum for their teammates and on a wide variety of teams. Drizzle teams don't even need spinners as badly as Sun, yet they can freely utilize just about every spinner in OU, in stark contrast to Drought teams. It's not that Forretress/Donphan are bad spinners in general, or that they're bad spinners for sun teams. They're like using Chansey on a HO team: they have a purpose and they do their jobs well, but they just don't fit in. I think CAP's potential as a Rapid Spinner is much greater if it can differentiate itself from the two of them in some significant way (in this case speed), towards offering sun teams a kind of utility pivot they've never been able to seriously consider before.
Base 114 base Spe puts CAP at the high end of the metagame, but the stats clearly emphasize the defensive potential. With no investment, CAP sits at 264 Spe, just 2 points above Timid, non-Scarf Politoed (who I don't really want to be playing speed games with at all when EV investment could be better used elsewhere). This gives 252 HP / 252+ [Def/Atk/SpD] spreads some necessary viability in the lower Speed tiers. On the flip side, non-Jolly spreads max out at 327 Speed, which is a point shy of max-speed base 100s. In order to outrun the base 110s, it needs 224 EVs and a Jolly nature, freeing up 32 extra EVs.
Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4/0 CAP: 84.6% - 100%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 70.6% - 83.4%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 59.6% - 70.6%
Choice Specs Latios HP-Fire vs. 4/0 CAP: 57.1% - 67.3% (84.6% - 100% in sun)
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 47.6% - 56.1% (70.6% - 83.4% in sun)
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 40.1% - 47.6% (59.9% - 70.6% in sun)
Choice Scarf Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4/0 CAP: 56.7% - 66.7%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 47.3% - 55.6%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 40.1% - 47.3%
Modest Choice Specs Politoed Ice Beam vs. 4/0 CAP: 65.4% - 77.6%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 54.5% - 64.7%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 46.5% - 55.1%
Modest Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump in Rain vs. 4/0 CAP: 46.2% - 54.8%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 38.5% - 45.7%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 32.6% - 38.5%
Defensive Politoed Ice Beam vs. 4/0 CAP: 31.4% - 37.2%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 26.2% - 31%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 21.9% - 26.2%
Choice Scarf Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4/0 CAP5: 24% - 28.5% (35.9% - 42.3% in Rain)
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP5: 20.1% - 23.8% (29.9% - 35.3% in Rain)
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP5: 16.8% - 20.1% (25.4% - 29.9% in Rain)
Choice Scarf Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252/0 CAP5: 104.8% - 124.1%
"..." vs. 252/224 (Def) CAP5: 78.6% - 93%
"..." vs. 252/252+ (Def) CAP5: 69.5% - 82.4%
Offensive Ninetales Fire Blast in Sun vs. 252/0 CAP: 87.2% - 103.2%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 74.3% - 88.2%
Defensive Ninetales Flamethrower in Sun vs. 4/0 CAP: 63.5% - 75%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 52.9% - 62.6%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 44.9% - 52.9%
Timid Heatran Fire Blast vs. 252/224 CAP: 67.9% - 80.7% (101.6% - 120.3% in Sun)
SpD Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4/0 CAP: 53.8% - 64.1% (80.8% - 94.9% in sun)
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 44.9% - 53.5% (67.4% - 79.1% in sun)
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 38.5% - 45.5% (56.7% - 67.4% in sun)
Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4/0 CAP: 73.4% - 86.9%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 61.2% - 72.5%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 46% - 54.5%
Adamant LO Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 4/0 CAP: 52.9% - 62.5%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 44.1% - 52.1%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 33.2% - 39.3%
Adamant LO Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4/0 CAP: 85.3% - 100.6%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 71.1% - 84%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 53.5% - 63.1%
Jolly LO Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4/0 CAP: 116% - 137.2%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 96.8% - 114.4%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 72.2% - 85.6%
Choice Scarf Salamence Outrage vs. 4/0 CAP: 92.3% - 108.7%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 77% - 90.6%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 57.2% - 67.6%
I've modeled the defenses after Tentacruel mostly, with a minuscule uptick in HP and a moderate boost to SpD. The defenses are highly specialized, which is to be expected. As you can see from the calculations, this CAP is plenty vulnerable on the physical side of things (as per the threatlist), and the SpD isn't so ungodly that it is impervious to powerful special blows. I chose a lower HP stat in order to emphasize the difference between tanking physical and special blows, and the low Def keeps CAP's speed in check with its vulnerability to common priority. If you'll recall the offensive calcs, there is a dramatic difference between 252 HP / 252 Spe spreads and 252 Atk / 252 Spe builds. Here in the defenses, we see that same phenomenon occurring; due to the lower HP, CAP gets much more defensively out of 252 HP EVs, which will cost Atk or Spe in order to achieve.
I fully understand that I am paddling upstream with this spread, but I really do think a faster pivot would play to sun's advantages better than a slow spread. Furthermore, I believe that the top-tier threats we've accepted to become checks/counters to CAP, along with the defensive pressure of six weaknesses and pivoting through rain and Dragons will make it difficult for slow, wallish spreads to achieve as much utility beyond the initial switch-in.
- - - - - 7/8
Originally Posted by Fat srk1214
DEF: 60 SpA: 45
ST: 209.068 PS: 132.263 SS: 72.5607
BST: 500 Overall BSR: 274.007
For a quick look, read the Italics and the TL;DR. Otherwise, please read it in entirety... calcs and all. Note the difference in outcomes attained at each level of Special Bulkiness and Attack to see how this spread in particular encourages gradations in EV spreads.
HP: As DarkSlay (whose format I shamelessly have "borrowed") pointed out in his submission, "CAP projects in the past have predominantly featured projects with a high level of HP, due to the general 'overall' bulk the CAP receives as a result." As he further points out, "increasing the individual defensive stats, especially in cases where we're looking for polarization" is an option, and a good one at that. And just as DarkSlay came to the conclusion that a good, but sub-100 HP Stat was ideal, so too did I. 90 HP is a good mid-level bulk base to work on, enabling low PT and high ST with ease.
ATK: We have pretty much come to a consensus on reasonably high attack, with the exception of those constrained by the PS limit and their choice of high speed. An Attack stat of 100 is sufficient to threaten essentially every Pokemon that CAP5 is targeting. At the same time, 100 Attack avoids being so high that CAP5 is likely to sweep in anyway. The goal should be uninvested hits still doing enough damage to make CAP5 a tank and not a wall that sits and does nothing.
Here are some STAB calculations against some of our biggest targets:
Attack Calcs (Neutral Nature)
0 EV's Crunch/Pursuit/Sucker Punch (80 BP): 4/0 Latios: 68.21 - 81.45% (guaranteed 2HKO)
252/4 Latios: 56.59 - 67.58% (guaranteed 2HKO)
4/0 Latias: 62.25 - 74.17% (guaranteed 2HKO)
252/0 Latias: 51.64 - 61.53% (guaranteed 2HKO after SR even with Lefties, 97.66% chance to 2HKO even with Lefties and without SR)
4/0 Gengar: 99.23 - 117.55% (93.75% chance to OHKO)
0/4 Thundurus-T: 38.46 - 45.48% (3HKO, guaranteed 2HKO after SR)
248/216+ Jellicent: 40.19 - 47.64% (3.13% chance to 2HKO after SR and Lefties, enough to guarantee the 2HKO after SR and Lefties when followed up by Power Whip, and a 78.52% chance to 2HKO after Lefties when followed up by a Power Whip even without SR)
0/0 Starmie: 75.86 - 89.65% (guaranteed 2HKO, 12.5% chance to OHKO after SR)
252/0 Starmie: 61.11 - 72.22% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Power Whip: 252/0 Politoed: 84.89 - 100.52% (guaranteed 2HKO, 87.5% chance to OHKO after SR)
252/252+ Politoed: 58.33 - 69.27% (guaranteed 2HKO)
184/4 Rotom-W: 84.32 - 100.34% (6.25% chance to OHKO, 81.25% chance to OHKO after SR)
4/0 Rotom-W: 101.65 - 119.83% (guaranteed OHKO)
248/0 Rotom-W: 81.18 - 95.7% (guaranteed 2HKO, 56.25% chance to OHKO after SR)
248/216+ Jellicent: 60.04 - 71.46% (guaranteed 2HKO)
4/0 Jolteon: 71.95 - 84.5% (guaranteed 2HKO)
252 EV's Crunch/Pursuit/Sucker Punch (80 BP):
4/0 Latios: 87.41 - 103.31% (18.75% chance to OHKO, 93.75% after SR)
252/4 Latios: 71.42 - 84.61% (guaranteed 2HKO)
4/0 Latias: 79.47 - 94.03% (guaranteed 2HKO, 43.75% to OHKO after SR)
252/0 Latias: 65.93 - 78.02% (guaranteed 2HKO)
4/0 Gengar: 125.95 - 148.85% (guaranteed OHKO)
0/4 Thundurus-T: 48.49 - 57.52% (94.53% chance to 2HKO, guaranteed after SR)
248/216+ Jellicent: 50.62 - 60.04% (86.72% chance to 2HKO after Lefties, guaranteed 2HKO after SR)
0/0 Starmie: 96.55 - 113.4% (75% chance to OHKO, guaranteed OHKO after SR)
252/0 Starmie: 77.77 - 91.35% (guaranteed 2HKO, 31.25% chance to OHKO after SR)
Power Whip: 252/0 Politoed: 108.33 - 128.12% (guaranteed OHKO)
252/252+ Politoed: 73.95 - 87.5% (guaranteed 2HKO, 6.25% chance to OHKO after SR)
184/4 Rotom-W: 107.31 - 127.52% (guaranteed OHKO)
248/0 Rotom-W: 101.65 - 120.79% (guaranteed OHKO)
248/216+ Jellicent: 75.93 - 89.82% (guaranteed 2HKO, 18.75% chance to OHKO after SR)
4/0 Jolteon: 90.77 - 106.64% (43.75% chance to OHKO, guaranteed OHKO after SR)
In short, 100 Attack is an optimal point. When invested, the attack needn't be any higher to grab the vast majority of guaranteed OHKOs/2HKOs on the things it should be targeting. It already gets them. When uninvested, it still nabs the 2HKOs on everything it needs to 2HKO. Any further attack beyond base 100 only makes CAP5 better in general, and not better for its concept.
DEF: Again, agreeing with the consensus on low physical bulk. We want to be checked by things like Scizor and Breloom and random Outrages, etc. 60 Defense accomplishes that. 90/60 Physical defense is nothing to write home about. Here's a few calcs to back up my point:
Defense Calcs (Neutral Nature)
CBScizor's Bullet Punch: 105.51 - 124.13% (guaranteed OHKO)
OU Physical Attacker Breloom's Mach Punch: 166.89 - 196.2% (guaranteed OHKO)
Bulk Up Conkeldurr's Mach Punch (unboosted): 99.31 - 116.55% (93.75% chance to OHKO, guaranteed after SR)
Choice Scarf Terrakion's Stone Edge: 105.51 - 124.48% (guaranteed OHKO)
CBScizor's Bullet Punch: 86.68 - 101.98% (12.5% chance to OHKO, 93.75% after SR)
OU Physical Attacker Breloom's Mach Punch: 137.11 - 161.18% (guaranteed OHKO)
Bulk Up Conkeldurr's Mach Punch (unboosted): 81.58 - 95.75% (50% chance to OHKO after SR)
Choice Scarf Terrakion's Stone Edge: 86.68 - 102.26% (18.75% chance to OHKO, 93.75% after SR)
60 Defense is an ideal pairing for 90 HP, as it lies in an area where the likely 252 HP investment makes little difference to the most important Physical attacks CAP5 fears, as long as SR is up. The Terrakion calculation was included as it shows that Terrakion can afford to "mispredict" a Venusaur or Gengar (or otherwise unfriendly to Close Combat) switch in. The Stone Edge will still be massively threatening, even perhaps an OHKO
SpA: Yay! A boring section with no calcs needed, though I'll throw a few in just for kicks. 45 Special Attack is laughable. How laughable?
Outside of Sun, with 252 Sp Atk EVs, a boosting Nature, and a Life Orb, CAP5 fails to OHKO Scizor with HP Fire. (In Sun this does OHKO, but so would anything...) For a more likely scenario, in Sun, but with no Sp Atk EVs, a neutral Nature, and a Berry, CAP5 deals 57.14 - 67.63% to Scizor. Moreover, it fails to even guarantee a 3HKO on standard Ferrothorn.
45 Sp Atk may look "higher" than many other options. But it's entirely optical and placed that "high" so that it looks more realistic. It's still pathetic. And remember... Scizor has an all but guaranteed OHKO on you after SR, even if you are running 252 HP EVs, so this HP Fire nonsense only even would matter on a predicted switch-in.
SpD: Now for the business. 130 is obviously pretty big, but we've all agreed it needs to be up there. Our targets are Special Attackers, so Special Defense is needed. Our Grass typing, along with the fact that we aim to be used in Sun, already help against the many Water Special Attackers in the tier, as well as Jolteon and Thundurus-T. We are also protected from Psyshocks targeting our weak Defense by our Dark typing. Still, we need to be prepared to eat a variety of Special attacks, from Dragon Pulses and Draco Meteors to Ice Beams and... well mostly that's it. We also need to be situated at a point where we don't go overboard. CAP5 has no business eating Fire moves, for example, (unless Rain intervenes). Harvest inevitably plays in with these calcs and make them very obnoxious to do. LumRest and Sitrus are both viable options in various scenarios, along with everything random like Haban or Enigma Berries. Calculations will be provided at 0/0 Bulk, 252/0 Bulk, and 252/252+ Bulk:
Special Defensive Calculations (Neutral Nature, Neutral Nature, and Boosted Nature)
NOTE: Fire Attacks will all be noted in the Sun. Obviously they are weaker in other weathers
0/0 Our Targets:
Choice Specs Latios' Draco Meteor/Sun-boosted HP Fire: 85.04 - 100.31% (6.25% chance to OHKO, 81.25% after SR)
Offensive Latios' Draco Meteor/Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 74.14 - 87.53% (guaranteed 2HKO, 6.25% chance to OHKO after SR)
DS Latios' Dragon Pulse: 30.21 - 35.82% (guaranteed 3HKO after SR, easily overcome by any Berry strategy)
Choice Scarf Latios' Draco Meteor/Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 57 - 67.28% (not a guaranteed 2HKO after the -2, though it is after SR)
Offensive Latias' Draco Meteor/Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 65.73 - 77.88% (almost guaranteed 2HKO even with the -2)
CM Latias' Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 41.74 - 49.22% (80.08% chance to 2HKO after SR)
Life Orb Gengar's Focus Blast: 85.04 - 100.31% (6.25% chance to OHKO, 81.25% after SR)
Lefties Gengar's Focus Blast: 65.42 - 77.25% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Specs Politoed's Focus Blast: 83.48 - 98.44% (guaranteed 2HKO, 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Specs Politoed's Ice Beam: 66.04 - 77.88% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Defensive Politoed's Ice Beam: 31.77 - 37.38% (guaranteed 3HKO after SR)
Scarf Rotom-W's Hidden Power Ice: 33.02 - 39.25% (guaranteed 3HKO after SR)
Specs Jolteon's HP Ice: 50.46 - 59.81% (guaranteed 2HKO)
LO Jolteon's HP Ice: 44.54 - 52.64% (19.14% chance to 2HKO, guaranteed after SR)
TormenTran's or Specially Defensive Heatran's Sun-Boosted Lava Plume: 80.99 - 95.95% (guaranteed 2HKO, 56.25% chance of OHKO after SR)
Any other Heatran-based common Sun-Boosted Fire move, on any set: guaranteed OHKO.
Defensive Ninetales' Flamethrower: 64.17 - 76.63% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Offensive Ninetales' Fire Blast: 106.54 - 125.85% (guaranteed OHKO)
252/0 Our Targets:
Choice Specs Latios' Draco Meteor/Sun-boosted HP Fire: 71.35 - 84.37% (guaranteed 2HKO, even after the -2)
Offensive Latios' Draco Meteor/Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 62.23 - 73.69% (excellent chance to 2HKO after the -2, guaranteed after SR)
DS Latios' Dragon Pulse: 25.26 - 29.94% (guaranteed 4HKO, easily overcome by any Berry strategy)
Choice Scarf Latios' Draco Meteor/Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 47.91 - 56.77% (not a 2HKO after the -2, even with SR)
Offensive Latias' Draco Meteor/Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 55.46 - 65.62% (not a 2HKO after -2, though possible if after SR)
CM Latias' Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 34.89 - 41.14% (guaranteed 3HKO)
Life Orb Gengar's Focus Blast: 71.09 - 83.85% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Lefties Gengar's Focus Blast: 54.68 - 64.58% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Specs Politoed's Focus Blast: 69.79 - 82.29% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Specs Politoed's Ice Beam: 55.2 - 65.1% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Defensive Politoed's Ice Beam: 26.56 - 31.25% (38.31% chance to 3HKO after SR)
Scarf Rotom-W's Hidden Power Ice: 27.6 - 32.81% (89.36% chance to 3HKO after SR)
Specs Jolteon's HP Ice: 42.18 - 50% (0.39% chance to 2HKO, 91.8% after SR)
LO Jolteon's HP Ice: 37.23 - 44.01% (guaranteed 3HKO, 0.39% chance to 2HKO after SR)
TormenTran's or Specially Defensive Heatran's Sun-Boosted Lava Plume: 67.7 - 80.2% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Any other Heatran-based common Fire move, on any set: guaranteed OHKO after SR (Timid Flamethrowers require SR, all others OHKO).
Defensive Ninetales' Flamethrower: 53.64 - 64.06% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Offensive Ninetales' Fire Blast: 89.06 - 105.2% (37.5% chance to OHKO, guaranteed after SR)
252/252+ Our Targets:
Choice Specs Latios' Draco Meteor/Sun-boosted HP Fire: 54.16 - 64.06% (not a 2HKO after the -2, not even guaranteed with SR)
Offensive Latios' Draco Meteor/Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 46.61 - 55.46% (not a 2HKO after the -2 even with SR)
DS Latios' Dragon Pulse: 19.01 - 22.65% (possible 4HKO after SR, easily overcome by any Berry strategy)
Choice Scarf Latios' Draco Meteor/Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 35.93 - 42.7% (even the HP Fire does not 2HKO after SR)
Offensive Latias' Draco Meteor/Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 41.92 - 49.47% (Even HP Fire fails to 2HKO without SR, 81.64% chance with SR)
CM Latias' Sun-Boosted HP Fire: 26.56 - 31.25% (38.31% chance to 3HKO after SR)
Life Orb Gengar's Focus Blast: 53.38 - 63.02% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Lefties Gengar's Focus Blast: 41.14 - 48.43% (not a 2HKO without SR, 70.31% chance to 2HKO with SR)
Specs Politoed's Focus Blast: 52.6 - 61.97% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Specs Politoed's Ice Beam: 41.14 - 48.95% (not a 2HKO without SR, 78.52% chance to 2HKO after SR)
Defensive Politoed's Ice Beam: 19.79 - 23.43% (possible 4HKO after SR)
Scarf Rotom-W's Hidden Power Ice: 20.83 - 25% (possible 4HKO after SR)
Specs Jolteon's HP Ice: 32.29 - 38.02% (guaranteed 3HKO after SR)
LO Jolteon's HP Ice: 27.86 - 33.07% (guaranteed 4HKO, 94.7% chance to 3HKO after SR)
TormenTran's or Specially Defensive Heatran's Sun-Boosted Lava Plume: 51.56 - 60.93% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Heatran's Modest Sun-Boosted Fire Blasts, on any set: (guaranteed OHKO)
Heatran's Timid Sun-Boosted Fire Blasts, on any set: (50% chance to OHKO, guaranteed after SR)
Heatran's Modest Sun-Boosted Flamethrowers, on any set: (guaranteed 2HKO, 50% chance to OHKO after SR)
Heatran's Timid Sun-Boosted Flamethrowers, on any set: (guaranteed 2HKO)
Defensive Ninetales' Flamethrower: 41.14 - 48.95% (guaranteed 3HKO, 78.91% chance to 2HKO after SR)
Offensive Ninetales' Fire Blast: 67.18 - 79.68% (guaranteed 2HKO)
Seeing HP set at 90, setting Special Bulk at 130 is optimal for the project. It sets a bar where investment actually accomplishes a good deal and is required to bypass certain threats. Gradations along this investment can be made to check/counter various threats. The only thing that is impossible to account for perfectly that some may like to account for is Specs Latios, though a fully invested CAP5 avoids the guaranteed 2HKO from Specs Draco Meteor, even after SR. Increasing Special Defense any further disincentivizes the need to invest in Special Bulk in order to surpass powerful threats like Latios. Indeed as it stands, max/max+ bulk enables CAP5 to surpass every single thing that it would like to surpass with a LumRest set under Sun, even when switching into SR, either with the aforementioned LumRest, Sucker Punch, or Power Whip. Placing Special Defense at 130 puts the onus on the user of CAP5 to optimize the Special Bulkiness to best suit his or her team's needs, rather than having such high Special Bulkiness at the start that investing in Attack or Speed is even an option when attempting to take on things like Latios.
SPE: Many arguments have been made back and forth about speed. All I can say is that 75 Speed naturally puts us ahead of Politoed, and that's about it of the things that matter. 75 Speed is sufficiently ahead of Politoed too that it requires Politoed to speed creep at least somewhat substantially (an extra 40 EVs) to surpass and gain the easier 2HKO that does not fear Power Whip.
There is no significant difference in my mind between any speed that surpasses Politoed and fails to surpass the OU "midpoint" of 100. With that being said, I see very little reason to outspeed Rotom-W. Yes, keeping Volt-Switch from happening is nice, as it means Rotom-W must simply switch out. But Volt Switch is dealing approximately no damage and only serves to help Player 1 scout Player 2's potential double switch to Dugtrio as Player 1 intended to bring in Heatran. This benefit is nice, but circumstantial and relies entirely on prediction and situation. The other benefit is that it avoids potential Will-o-Wisps. However, CAP5 loves the Sun and will likely be running LumRest a good deal of the time, making this less useful.
I do appreciate its pluses, but I fear the minuses of outspeeding Gyarados, Venusaur outside of the Sun, and Dragonite are unnecessary. Moreover, this level of 87+ enables CAP5 to more easily run offensive sets and catch things like Specially Defensive Celebi with a Crunch before being hit by a U-Turn. Basically, I view these extra points in Speed largely unnecessary.
For similar reasons, I dislike a particularly fast spread. I feel it grants CAP5 far too high flexibility for what it needs to accomplish. CAP5 should need to be tailored to do what it needs to do. High speed makes a one-size fits all set of LumRest much more likely to be used. Low variety in creativity is not what the CAPmmunity aimed for when we picked Harvest. I honestly feel this is an attempt of Chlorophyll adherents to get back what they missed out on at the ability stage. It's not necessary with Harvest. As has been mentioned before, the question to ask is "WHY?" not "WHY NOT?" I fail to see why CAP5 needs high speed, so I am therefore opposed to it.
For the slow spreads, I feel underspeeding Politoed is detrimental to the accomplishment of our concept. We wish to make life harder on Water types. Well, the most used of them all is Politoed. And like it or not, even with Max/Max+ investment, many spreads, mine included, are 2HKOed by Focus Blast. Many are 2HKOed by Ice Beam as well. And of course SR factors into these calculations too. Essentially, underspeeding Politoed requires such massive bulk that I was unwilling to give CAP5. Therefore, I am unpersuaded by a slow spread.
This spread requires the user to customize Special Bulk to check/counter whatever threats are most threatening. Uninvested Attack is strong enough to threaten many things in need of threatening. EVs freed up from unneeded bulk (depending on team needs) can aid in the effort against threats not sufficiently covered when Attack is uninvested.
HP: 90. A good base to build from when desiring highly varied Physical and Special bulk.
Atk: 100. Again, a good base. With investment or without, and with gradations between CAP5 will net desired OHKOs and 2HKOs.
Def: 60. Well below average. Low enough that many common attacks OHKO or OHKO after SR.
SpA: 45. CAP5 is not going to have a competitively viable Special Attack.
SpD: 130. High but not too high. The only particularly common special thing that potentially threatens us that we'd like to not is Specs Latios, but even that fails to nab the guaranteed 2HKO with Draco Meteor after SR.
Spe: 75. Lower than Politoed or higher than Latios is either bad in the first case or unnecessary in the second. Either way, both are bad for the concept. Middling speeds between 71 and 99 all make very little difference to me. Still, as I view the extra speed found in base 87+ spreads unnecessary, I see them as unneeded benefits to CAP5 that potentially distract from the concept.
Speed: I always start with Speed first when creating a CAP spread. I wanted something that was lower than Scizor and Skarmory, but high enough to outspeed Jellicent to avoid getting Taunted. Having lower speed than Politoed is also nice because then Cap5 can tank Choice Specs Ice Beams and Rest off the damage. 62 Speed is between the 60-65 range necessary for this. I picked 62 to reach a 520 BST.
Special Attack: I was limited to a max of 52 Special Attack due to Special Sweepiness cannot be above 75. Acknowledging this limit, I used the Special attack to get Cap5 to 520 BST.
Attack: 120 Attack allows CAP5 to OHKO Latios with Crunch/Sucker Punch after SR with no investment.
Key Calculation: 0+ Atk Cap5 Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latios: 266-314 (88.07 - 103.97%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0+ Atk Cap5 Horn Leech vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 264-312 (81.98 - 96.89%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0+ Atk Cap5 Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 180-212 (46.87 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Cap5 Horn Leech vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 330-390 (85.93 - 101.56%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Cap5 Crunch vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 380-450 (94.29 - 111.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Cap5 Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 254-300 (63.02 - 74.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Cap5 Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jolteon: 266-316 (98.15 - 116.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Cap5 Horn Leech vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 312-369 (102.97 - 121.78%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Cap5 Horn Leech vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 240-284 (79.2 - 93.72%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Cap5 Sucker Punch vs. 152 HP / 4 Def Thundurus-T: 181-214 (53.7 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
120 Attack seems to hit all of the OHKOs and 2HKOs we need after Stealth Rock without going overboard. While we do miss a Guaranteed OHKO on Latias with Leftovers and many of these calculations are with positive natures, we do cover all of our threats with Horn Leech and Sucker Punch / Crunch. On to bulk.
HP / Def / SDef: 95 HP / 56 Def / 144 SDef
Key calculations: 252+ SpA Heatran Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cap5: 314-372 (94.86 - 112.38%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock 0 Atk Hippowdon Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cap5: 164-194 (41.62 - 49.23%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after weather 252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cap5: 408-484 (103.55 - 122.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO 252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cap5: 146-174 (37.05 - 44.16%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cap5: 190-225 (48.22 - 57.1%) -- 44.14% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Politoed Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cap5: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.83%) -- 22.27% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cap5: 234-278 (59.39 - 70.55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cap5: 372-444 (94.41 - 112.69%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Jolteon Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cap5: 114-136 (28.93 - 34.51%) -- 15.04% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cap5: 242-288 (73.11 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cap5: 388-457 (98.47 - 115.98%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cap5: 372-440 (94.41 - 111.67%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Ninetales Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cap5 in sun: 236-282 (59.89 - 71.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Cap5: 258-304 (77.94 - 91.84%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cap5: 440-522 (111.67 - 132.48%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I know these calculations are disorganized, but my goal is to make sure we survive everything we should and die to everything that should kill us. The spread I offer seems to do that quite well. Cap5 should be a Special tank since we need it to counter Latios, Latias, Thundurus-T, Gengar, and Politoed, some of the toughest special attackers in the game. Meanwhile, we need to be weak to Fighting-type priority attacks. This spread makes it harder to survive priority Mach Punches and CB Scizor Bullet Punches while surviving three hits from Hippowdon’s Ice Fang. Heatran and Volcarona have no problems taking Cap5 down with Overheat and Bug Buzz, either.
- - - - - fin.
[17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me?
[17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner
[17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol
[17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either
[17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages
[17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod.
[17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal.
[17:57] <Birkal> >:|
Low speed is really the way to go here, and I think Birkal's spread really just has the whole package of what we want. While I do not like fast spreads, if we are not going to go slow, it is better to at least have a good reason for our speed, rather than simply to outspeed something that we already wall. Finally, while I like low speed, I don't think we want power, and I would rater have a weaker fast spread than a very strong slow one.
<jas61292> I record everything
<nyttyn> prove it.
<nyttyn> WHAT WAS THE VERY FIRST THING I EVER SAID IN THIS CHANNEL.
<jas61292> [06/02/12 | 12:43] <NyttyN> Huh what deo you know shelll smash did get banned
<nyttyn> well congratulations jas your stalker nexus has reached an all time high.
As a general rule I focused on spreads that had at least some capability of outspeeding Politoed - I think speed wars are stupid and wasteful, but I consider even the most absurd special bulk pointless if Politoed can consistently get two attacks in on CAP 5. After that consideration I chose spreads I thought did the best job at balancing CAP 5's intended niche role without opening up other avenues such as a slow Choice Band Pursuit user or something to that effect.
Still, good job and good luck to all my opponents, may the best spreads jam to the next poll.
[17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me?
[17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner
[17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol
[17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either
[17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages
[17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod.
[17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal.
[17:57] <Birkal> >:|