Welcome to CAP:After-Dark Special Edition. Seriously if you're up this late, you're whack. Anyways, we're in the second round of voting on our stat spread for CAP 5; our choice here will play a very strong determining role in how our Pokemon functions in Overused and ultimately fulfills our concept. Make sure you read through each submission carefully so that you can make a well-informed vote.
This will be a single bold vote. Make sure that you bold your vote and nothing else! A typical vote might look like the following:
My preferred entry
Any comments that the voter has would go below the votes in non-bold text. Bold text is used to determine what the user's votes are, so none of the supplementary text should be in bold.
Please post only your votes in this thread. Do not respond to other posts, or your posts will be moderated and you may be warned. You are allowed to say whatever you like in relation to your vote at the bottom of your post, but please do not look to begin a discussion. Keep those comments to #cap on IRC.
This poll will be open for 24 hours starting from the post following this one.
When voting, use only the submitter's name! The entries have links below followed by a full quote beneath for your immediate reference. The list of possible votes includes (in order final submissions were posted):
83 HP / 92 Atk / 73 Def / 42 SpA / 156 SpD / 89 Spe (BST 535)
PT: 114.153 ST: 237.46 PS: 137.421 SS: 73.6857
Overall BSR: 305.962
Now, as everyone knows, I make Stats with a spread in mind.
CAP 5 @ Sitrus / Enigma Berry EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SpD Careful Stats: 370 HP / 245 Atk / 182 Def / 108 SpA / 425 SpD / 214 Spe. Potential Set: (Note: Movepool is not decided at this stage all moves are speculative.)
HP / Def / SpD:
The HP was selected primarily for the size of Wish, should CAP 5 get it. 83 is perfect for most sun threats, which lie in in the 73-80 range thanks to Veusaur and Ninetales, and of course Dugtrio would also appreciate a Wish. However, the HP is too small to really aid other playstyles. Most Rain Pokemon have more bulk in their HP and a far superior Wish option in Vaporeon, while many Sand threats like Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Landorus have HP's that start at 89 and climb up to and past 100. While CAP 5 is likely to invest in HP, it maxes at 370, which is enough for a 185 HP Wish. This is generally not enough healing for the very offensive Pokemon that eat HP through Life Orb (Terrakion/Keldeo's Base HP is 91, Hydreigon's 92, and most of the frailer Life Orbers are too, well, frail.) or for the very bulky invested defensive Pokemon like Politoed (Base 90), Vaporeon (Base 130), Jellicent/Tyranitar (Base 100), Hippowdon/Garchomp (Base 108), Mamoswine (Base 110), or Gastrodon (Base 111) of those styles.
To be sure such a Wish could still be used, but again Vaporeon is infinitely superior on Rain as a status-immune Wishpasser, and Sand Pokemon rarely get even 50% healing from CAP 5's Wish, nor do they like the additional Ice and Fighting weaknesses (along with limited offensive presence) CAP 5 would bring to their teams. Ground and Water resistances along with Dark STAB are not as helpful on a team with Landorus and Tyranitar as they are on a Sun team.
Def / SpD:
This left Defense and Special Defense, and I particularly like what these calcs do with Sitrus Berry or Enigma Berry.
Focus Blast will always activate Sitrus / Enigma Berry, Ice Beam will never 2HKO, and in fact Enigma Berry heals more than Sitrus would reduce damage.
Latios (OU Choice [Choice Specs]) HP Fire (Sun) 51.89 - 61.62% Draco Meteor 51.35 - 60.81%
Latios will also trigger Sitrus Berries with DM or Sun-Boosted HP Fire, while boosted HP Fire would also trigger Enigma Berry.
I'll get to why these berries are better than LumRest when I get into Attack. the summary is that CAP5 needs the stated Attack investment for the guaranteed 2HKO on Latias, so although you could Max/Max+ CAP 5 and try to tank with LumRest, Latias would start presenting problems.
An interesting note is how CAP 5 interacts with Landorus-T, which can technically 2HKO CAP 5 through Sitrus on this spread. The Calc is:
Landorus-T (OU Rock Polish) Stone Edge 59.45 - 70% Earthquake 44.32 - 52.43%
So if Earthquake hits 48, and then 52 it can KO. It can't KO through hazards though, and Stone Edge cannot 2HKO through Sitrus, though it can through Enigma as it isn't SE. Scarf Lando OHKOs with U-turn and Superpower both.
To address why LumRest will not be overpowered with such a high ST, I have tried to build this set to raise the viability of other berries, and additionally I have engineered it so that specific support moves that may be useful later will benefit primarily Sun Pokemon. To do this I had to lower HP and raise Special Defense. I think as a pivot to glue Sun together, Wish is a perfectly viable move to consider when creating a spread, and the lower HP compared to defenses makes Horn Leech marginally more formidable as a STAB because it heals an absolute number of HP. The general physical frailty also allows Pokemon with as low as 100 Base Attack like Scarf Victini to have a minimum 97% Chance to OHKO with U-turn.
Finally about the actual SpD number. Defenses in Pokemon have a lot more latitude than other stats. Several Pokemon have 150+ Physical defenses and are not even close to overpowered (Aggron, Cloyster, Steelix, Bastiodon, Regirock), I'm essentially trying to create a Pokemon like that with an emphasis on Special Defense.
For a more full picture, here are selections from this spread's Defensive Calcs:
Now for an explanation on relevant offenses. Basically, I did not want CAP 5 to have a viable Choice Band set, so I set its Attack to below 95, and its Speed to below 90. At 89 Speed, Politoed would have to invest 156 EVs to outrun CAP 5. Politoed is not going to give up over half its EVs in bulk on a Specs Set just to hit CAP 5 twice under any realistic scenario. 89 Is also an excellent speed because of several threats sitting just above it at 90 Speed, Lucario and Roserade - both have Super-effective STAB attacks against CAP 5, and Roserade also has Sun Weather Ball. By making it impossible for CAP 5 to tie these Pokemon, the viability of any choice set is reduced.
The maximum speed is also important here, as a +Spe CAP5 can outrun +SpA Hydreigon - and it will have a few EVs to spare to invest in offense or defenses. The speed also comfortably outruns all defensive variants of Rotom-W. In order to outspeed all +Spe Base 70s, 104 EVs are needed. The final off-effect is is makes certain CB Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball always OHKOs, though the standard Ferrothorn's Gyro Ball cannot 2HKO through Sitrus and rarely through Leftovers.
As far as the attack itself, it can take on Latios fairly easily, but it needs investment to really take on Latias. Here are a few relevant STAB Calcs assuming offensive coverage of Power Whip / Crunch /Low Kick (as a move over Wish or Spin) / and the mentioned EVs (245 Atk):
Given the general power of LumRest, I have devised an additional Sun Support set that is more offensive in nature.
CAP 5 @ Lum Berry EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD Careful Stats: 337 HP / 283 Atk / 182 Def / 108 SpA / 420 SpD / 214 Spe. Potential Set: (Note: Movepool is not decided at this stage all moves are speculative.)
A set designed with CM Latias in mind. It is capable of switching in, setting up sun, and avoiding a 2HKO from Sun-boosted HP Fire. Should you come in on the Calm Mind in the Sun, use Rest immediately, since you can survive the 2HKO, but it's less likely with hazard damage. If Latias goes for the second CM, Punishment effortlessly OHKO's it. In any other weather, use Sunny Day to get your sun back. Horn Leech is a bit riskier since it gets only marginal healing. The best part is, even though you're opening up the fire weakness in Sunny Day, Harvest makes this set work because it essentially makes Lum Berry permanent. If you set up Sun you will always be status immune, even if you get statused before or after Rest. The Lum Berry will always grow back. Additionally since there are so may Sun Pokemon with Sunny Day, and CAP5 offers a suitable threat to Tyranitar (Low Kick would be needed to OHKO, however Horn Leech 2HKOs CBTar after SR. It requires some smart play, but since Sunny Day activates after Tar switches in, overpowering it with your Sun special attackers will be easier. You can also Sub to eat the first Superpower, and then Horn Leech comfortably 2HKOs. There is some 4MSS syndrome, but the idea here is pick your targets. Punishment/Crunch beats Latis, Low Kick beats Tar, Horn Leech expedites beating Toed and is generally the most helpful.)
This set has to be more wary of Specs Latios, since Specs DM can 2HKO with Hazards up, so unlike the first set (assuming Sitrus) it can't come in with impunity [this is arguably an asset overall], however it can tank the attack if it is already in, and Punishment does cleanly 2HKO all variants of Latios. The low PP is an issue, but Horn Leech on the other end addresses that.
Once in, this set threatens Politoed with a combination of status immunity and healing, being able to shrug off even SpecsToed attacks via Horn Leech healing enough to keep out of KO range (watch out for Focus Blast's SpD drop.) It's true Politoed can try and outspeed with 156 EVs in Spe and 100 in HP, which will allow it to avoid a chance of OHKO after Stealth Rock (and KO CAP 5 with Ice Beam if SR is on our side of the field) - but that's a generally assinine thing to do because absolutely nothing valuable but CAP 5 sits at 214 Spe. It won't stop people from trying it, but it causes Politoed to lose to other things. You can circumvent this entirely by running 148 Atk and 104 Spe EVs, but that makes the matchup with CM Latias harder by allowing Latias to Recover-stall out Punishment's PP reliably - it needs the BP boost to reliably 2HKO.
In general with LumRest, do not assume you can switch in unscathed. Unlike Sitrus, the set doesn't have anything approximating passive healing, so it can tank easily once in, but is harder to get in safely against highly specific, damage-boosted threats.
The set itself is much more a hybrid of offense and defense. It rarely gets OHKOs, however it has a multitude of 2HKOs and its Horn Leech can break SubDisable Gengar's Sub. Here are some relevant offensive and defensive calcs:
I'm trying not to be too overgrown in the calcs, but I think its important to represent threats that may rise based on CAP 5's usage, and in this set particularly since it offers sun support. While it could theoretically be used as a Spinner in other weathers, as you see from the defensive calculations, LumRest is hardly invulnerable (and HATES HP loss from Sandstorm), and even if you used the more defensive spread above, you still have a lot of issues due to limited power. This set is particularly good for picking off the Psychic-type Calm Minders in the metagame, and using a combination of Lum Rest and Horn Leech on switch-ins to stay healthy. Low Kick could be used over Sunny Day or even Horn Leech to change some matchups (particularly against Tyranitar and other Dark types, but as you can see from the offensive calculations, even EVs for Attack CAP 5 is not even remotely close to a sweeper.
This spread steps all over Lati@s and Politoed, but does so in a way that affords it few other niches. It is not strong enough to be an offensive powerhouse. Its speed acts much better as a floor than it does a ceiling. It does not have enough physical bulk to be a general wall. Its entire spread is geared around support to and from Sun Pokemon with the maximum number of potential options.
Aesthetically it is actually rather balanced, having a huge special defense offset by a small but existent Special Attack exactly 50 points below its Attack. It is a Pokemon geared around a single defining strong point customized to aid a specific style of play, and I hope it earns your votes.
Originally Posted by Fat Birkal
Co-written by Birkal and ginganinja
115 HP / 100 Atk / 60 Def / 40 SpA / 130 SpD / 55 Spe
Let's chat about Speed. I chose 55 Spe (same as Machamp and Blissey) because it's essentially useless, but can have use if you're looking to do something specific. Max speed hits 209 or 229, depending on whether you run a boosting nature or not. Essentially, you can choose to outrun uninvested Tyranitar, Politoed, and even Heatran if you like. I think it's healthy to have some utility for speed, because it allows CAP 5 to outspeed specific threats if the team calls for it, but does not force it. If your sun team has problems with Bulky Politoed, it might not be amiss to invest in that extra speed to beat it. It's definitely not as optimal as investing in bulk, but the option is available to keep opponents on their toes.
Naturally, it outspeeds defensive threats like Ferrothorn, Chansey, Forretress, Bronzong, Donphan, Reuniclus, Hippowdon, and Slowbro. This is also better than some of the spreads that completely sacrifice speed to favor other sets; those spreads will likely require EVs to outspeed some of these threats to use whatever support moves it may have.
• • •
The focus of my spread is that CAP 5 will have to choose what it wants to beat with its EVs and berry selection. You can outpace some of those defensive threats if you choose to invest in the EVs. Otherwise, you can invest in some bulk. Below are some calculations that work off of two spreads: Physically Bulky and Specially Bulky. Both assume sunlight.
There's a lot of cool stuff you can do with this spread defensively. Notably, you can survive against non-Specs Keldeo and CB Haxorus Outrage. Combine this with the possibilities of Harvest with LumRest, pinch berries, or Cutsap Berry, and there are some effective tactics you can pull off here. Going physically bulky doesn't sacrifice special bulk either. CAP 5 can still hold its own against most variants of Politoed and tank any hit from Latios. This spread allows CAP 5 to be an overall stop to many offensive threats while under the sun (the ones listed above are merely the close calls; CAP 5 can wall a plethora of other moves with this spread), which is something most sun teams would appreciate greatly in a defensive pivot.
This set sacrifices some situations against physical attackers for sheer special bulk. Going toe-to-toe with Latios is no small feat, but this set accomplishes it. Specs HP Fire in the sun is the only move that can 2HKO, which takes a lot of relief off of sun teams in particular. SubCM Latias is useless against this set, especially in tandem with Lum Berry under the sun. It even has the potential to take on Heatran in the sun, which is pretty impressive, considering CAP 5 is Grass-type. All special attackers are forced into Focus Blast if they're looking for a 2HKO, and that gives sun teams some flexibility in terms of fishing for a miss or misprediction.
Berry Specific Calculations
252 HP / 72 Def / 180+ SDef
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Hidden Power Fire 50.23 - 59.44%
4 HP / 0 SpD
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Hidden Power Fire 73.65 - 87.09%
Type Resistant Berries:
252 HP / 252 Def+ @ Tanga Berry
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn 85.71 - 100.92%
The above spreads are more of me and ginganinja messing around with CAP 5's tanking abilities more than anything. The exception is the Sitrus set; a spread of 252 HP / 180+ SpD can be utilized to guarantee its activation after Latios uses Hidden Power Fire on the switch in. It's a legitimate spread for those considering Sitrus Berry, and allows you to allocate a bit more into defense as a mixed wall. Pinch berries are plausible if you have a very specific goal in mind for CAP 5, but typically they are inferior to other sets due to their risky nature. We partially intended it that way; we don't want CAP 5 to go for a sweep. However, the option is available if you need to get in one last Rapid Spin with Cutsap. Finally, those resist berry are silly calculations, but we thought it'd be good to include them just to show how versatile you can get with berries if you really want to suit a specific need on your sun team. With Tanga Berry, for example, CAP 5 can survive any U-turn in the game with a defensive spread. You can also use Chople to get a leg up on Terrakion, and Occa to cement a victory against Heatran. We even included a calculation for Yache Berry against Kyurem-W, and CAP 5 can still tank Choice Specs Blizzard with ease. These stats are pretty much novelty, but they affirm to us that CAP 5 is ridiculously good as is, which is why we're against making it even better with higher speed and attack stats.
• • •
And now, for some offensive calculations. These are all presumed on the defensive sets. I hope we have no intention of CAP 5 getting any set up moves, so I'm working without any EV investment in Attack. I didn't run any Special Attack calculations, because it is more or less useless. HP Fire under the sun can 2HKO Scizor, I think. But we're slower than any set it's going to run besides Life Orb Swords Dance, and +2 Bullet Punch isn't going to be a lot of fun for CAP 5 anyways.
2HKOs pretty much all bulky waters. 2HKOs both Latis. That suits our Threats Discussion pretty darn well. I don't want to raise this any higher, because it's mostly unnecessary. Again, CAP 5 can choose to invest Atk EVs to net some OHKOs, but it's generally going to want to tank the hits and retaliate back with its excellent STABs. This attack stat capitalizes on the offensive preciseness that our STABs give us in terms of what we wish to threaten. We threaten just that, and not much else.
This spread was designed with Forretress, Starmie, and Tentacruel in mind and is a sort of combination of the three (but tweaked a bit to account for our goals of targeting Lati@s and Politoed and fitting neatly into sun-based teams). I feel they are good Pokemon to draw inspiration from, as they all fulfill that pivoting role well and with unique applications, not to mention the Rapid Spin connection. From Tentacruel and Forretress, I picked up their "good enough" attacking stats and specialized defenses, while Starmie's influence bred a high Speed stat as a utility method. In molding the stats I had to consider their weaknesses as well: Forry is actually quite underwhelming for sun teams as its poor speed causes players to lose momentum almost instantaneously when it's out on the field, and Starmie lacks the bulk enough to switch into multiple attacks, despite its access to both recovery and Natural Cure. My aim with this spread was to patch up those issues and make a smart, well-built defensive utility Pokemon that could potentially give sun more synergistic options than Forretress/Donphan to Rapid Spin, or to give sun a defensive teammate that better suits its strategy of high speed and continuous momentum. You can call it "Starmie of the Sun" or "Tentacruel of the sun," which would both be accurate descriptions, but really this spread puts CAP somewhere in between.
4 Atk EV CAP5 Pursuit/Crunch/Sucker Punch vs. 4/0 Latios: 57.6% - 68.2%
"..." vs. 252/0 Latias: 43.4% - 51.6%
"..." vs. 4/0 Gengar: 83.2% - 98.5% (85.5% - 101.5% w/ 32 Atk EVs)
"..." vs. 0/0 Ninetales: 32.4% - 38%
"..." vs. 252/120 Ninetales: 26.6% - 31.1%
4 Atk EV CAP5 Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Politoed: 48.4% - 57.8%
"..." vs. 252/0 Politoed: 70.8% - 84.4%
"..." vs. 4/0 Politoed: 84.5% - 100.6%
"..." vs. 4/0 Terrakion: 72.8% - 85.8%
"..." vs. 180/0 Tyranitar: 51.8% - 61.1%
"..." vs. 252/0 Tyranitar: 49.5% - 58.4%
252 Atk EV CAP5 Pursuit/Crunch/Sucker Punch vs. 4/0 Latios: 75.5% - 89.4%
"..." vs. 252/0 Latias: 56.6% - 67.6%
"..." vs. 0/0 Ninetales: 41.8% - 49.5%
"..." vs. 252/120 Ninetales: 29.4% - 35.1%
252 Atk EV CAP5 Power Whip vs. 252/252+ Politoed: 64.1% - 75.5%
"..." vs. 252/0 Politoed: 93.8% - 110.9%
"..." vs. 4/0 Politoed: 111.8% - 132.3%
"..." vs. 4/0 Terrakion: 95.1% - 113%
"..." vs. 180/0 Tyranitar: 67.4% - 79.8%
"..." vs. 252/0 Tyranitar: 64.4% - 76.2%
The Attack is low compared to the OU metagame as a whole, but it threatens our three primary targets enough for a defensive pivot, enough to foil any of their plans of setting up or overwhelming CAP with sheer force (granted CAP holds a Sitrus or Lum Berry with Rest). The defenses and primary ability support the lower Atk by allowing CAP to tank even Specs Latios Draco Meteor with just 252 HP EVs (regardless of Stealth Rock). CAP can then either Rest before it strikes again at -2, or it can Pursuit for the 2HKO on a predicted switch. Bulky Latias is a bother for Jolly 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe spreads, but the damage calcs indicate that CAP can at the very least stall out its Recovers as it 3HKOs. Jolly 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe builds can cleanly 2HKO Latias while only taking 37.8% - 44.6% from +1 Dragon Pulse (at the cost of surviving Specs Latios with rocks up). This is a pretty fair trade-off, and should get players to make tough decisions on allocating EVs. I am assuming an absence of stat-boosting moves in the movepool, as that appears to be the consensus, so the 80 base Atk won't be overwhelming much of anything that isn't weak to its STABs.
The Special Attack is functionally non-existent, only low enough to fit the established stat limits. It's not even enough to scare Scizor in the Sun with HP-Fire, so we won't have to worry about messing up our threatlist with a usable Hidden Power. It's lower than I'd like it to be for optics reasons, but competitively it fits our community desires. It's a dump stat, like everyone else's SpA, so it will facilitate Jolly, Impish, and Careful natures.
As others have said, there is a certain advantage to outrunning the Latis as it relates to Harvest, even if CAP can't OHKO them. The main advantage of course is its utility on a defensive Pokemon, akin to Latias, Deoxys-D, Froslass, Fidgit, etc. With six weaknesses, notably to U-turn, and with the pressure of coming in on Latios time and again without a Dragon resist, CAP will certainly appreciate the breathing room that high speed provides to perform a support move or pick off stubborn, weakened foes. It may even have the chance to U-turn out first (should it get U-turn) on a U-turning switch-in and safely rotate to a teammate that resists it (an especially useful trait if CAP can Rest/Spin as the opponent switches in). It could also use the enticing Fast-Taunt/Encore to prevent opponents from setting up, should it get those moves.
The Speed is all about defensive utility. As I said before, sun teams currently have only Forretress and Donphan to choose from as Rapid Spinners go, and both of them really frustrate the fast-paced sun strategy; they are slow, offensively underwhelming walls and are easy setup for opposing threats. As it stands, sun teams really have no options for a fast or specially bulky Rapid Spinner like Rain or weatherless teams have with Starmie and Tentacruel, who can both maintain momentum for their teammates and on a wide variety of teams. Drizzle teams don't even need spinners as badly as Sun, yet they can freely utilize just about every spinner in OU, in stark contrast to Drought teams. It's not that Forretress/Donphan are bad spinners in general, or that they're bad spinners for sun teams. They're like using Chansey on a HO team: they have a purpose and they do their jobs well, but they just don't fit in. I think CAP's potential as a Rapid Spinner is much greater if it can differentiate itself from the two of them in some significant way (in this case speed), towards offering sun teams a kind of utility pivot they've never been able to seriously consider before.
Base 114 base Spe puts CAP at the high end of the metagame, but the stats clearly emphasize the defensive potential. With no investment, CAP sits at 264 Spe, just 2 points above Timid, non-Scarf Politoed (who I don't really want to be playing speed games with at all when EV investment could be better used elsewhere). This gives 252 HP / 252+ [Def/Atk/SpD] spreads some necessary viability in the lower Speed tiers. On the flip side, non-Jolly spreads max out at 327 Speed, which is a point shy of max-speed base 100s. In order to outrun the base 110s, it needs 224 EVs and a Jolly nature, freeing up 32 extra EVs.
Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4/0 CAP: 84.6% - 100%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 70.6% - 83.4%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 59.6% - 70.6%
Choice Specs Latios HP-Fire vs. 4/0 CAP: 57.1% - 67.3% (84.6% - 100% in sun)
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 47.6% - 56.1% (70.6% - 83.4% in sun)
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 40.1% - 47.6% (59.9% - 70.6% in sun)
Choice Scarf Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4/0 CAP: 56.7% - 66.7%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 47.3% - 55.6%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 40.1% - 47.3%
Modest Choice Specs Politoed Ice Beam vs. 4/0 CAP: 65.4% - 77.6%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 54.5% - 64.7%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 46.5% - 55.1%
Modest Choice Specs Politoed Hydro Pump in Rain vs. 4/0 CAP: 46.2% - 54.8%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 38.5% - 45.7%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 32.6% - 38.5%
Defensive Politoed Ice Beam vs. 4/0 CAP: 31.4% - 37.2%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 26.2% - 31%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 21.9% - 26.2%
Choice Scarf Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 4/0 CAP5: 24% - 28.5% (35.9% - 42.3% in Rain)
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP5: 20.1% - 23.8% (29.9% - 35.3% in Rain)
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP5: 16.8% - 20.1% (25.4% - 29.9% in Rain)
Choice Scarf Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252/0 CAP5: 104.8% - 124.1%
"..." vs. 252/224 (Def) CAP5: 78.6% - 93%
"..." vs. 252/252+ (Def) CAP5: 69.5% - 82.4%
Offensive Ninetales Fire Blast in Sun vs. 252/0 CAP: 87.2% - 103.2%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 74.3% - 88.2%
Defensive Ninetales Flamethrower in Sun vs. 4/0 CAP: 63.5% - 75%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 52.9% - 62.6%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 44.9% - 52.9%
Timid Heatran Fire Blast vs. 252/224 CAP: 67.9% - 80.7% (101.6% - 120.3% in Sun)
SpD Heatran Lava Plume vs. 4/0 CAP: 53.8% - 64.1% (80.8% - 94.9% in sun)
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 44.9% - 53.5% (67.4% - 79.1% in sun)
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 38.5% - 45.5% (56.7% - 67.4% in sun)
Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4/0 CAP: 73.4% - 86.9%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 61.2% - 72.5%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 46% - 54.5%
Adamant LO Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 4/0 CAP: 52.9% - 62.5%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 44.1% - 52.1%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 33.2% - 39.3%
Adamant LO Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4/0 CAP: 85.3% - 100.6%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 71.1% - 84%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 53.5% - 63.1%
Jolly LO Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4/0 CAP: 116% - 137.2%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 96.8% - 114.4%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 72.2% - 85.6%
Choice Scarf Salamence Outrage vs. 4/0 CAP: 92.3% - 108.7%
"..." vs. 252/0 CAP: 77% - 90.6%
"..." vs. 252/224 CAP: 57.2% - 67.6%
I've modeled the defenses after Tentacruel mostly, with a minuscule uptick in HP and a moderate boost to SpD. The defenses are highly specialized, which is to be expected. As you can see from the calculations, this CAP is plenty vulnerable on the physical side of things (as per the threatlist), and the SpD isn't so ungodly that it is impervious to powerful special blows. I chose a lower HP stat in order to emphasize the difference between tanking physical and special blows, and the low Def keeps CAP's speed in check with its vulnerability to common priority. If you'll recall the offensive calcs, there is a dramatic difference between 252 HP / 252 Spe spreads and 252 Atk / 252 Spe builds. Here in the defenses, we see that same phenomenon occurring; due to the lower HP, CAP gets much more defensively out of 252 HP EVs, which will cost Atk or Spe in order to achieve.
I fully understand that I am paddling upstream with this spread, but I really do think a faster pivot would play to sun's advantages better than a slow spread. Furthermore, I believe that the top-tier threats we've accepted to become checks/counters to CAP, along with the defensive pressure of six weaknesses and pivoting through rain and Dragons will make it difficult for slow, wallish spreads to achieve as much utility beyond the initial switch-in.
Here's CAP 5 so far:
Originally Posted by Fat Base Speed
Name: Type Equalizer
Description: A pokemon whose presence in the metagame increases the usage of one or more underused types and simultaneously decreases the usage of one or more overused types.
Justification: Take a look at the OU usage statistics for January and you'll see that 9 out of the top 10 pokemon have either steel, water, dragon or fighting as one of their types, and extending it to the top 20 shows 16/20 with those types. We should also be asking ourselves why these trends exist so strongly and what can be done about them. In creating this CAP, we'd have to discuss in depth many different aspects of what makes a type and opinions can ultimately being tested in the playtest.
Questions To Be Answered:
Is a types usefulness relative to the metagame or is it intrinsic? (Ie. Can any type be the "best" type given the right circumstances or do type match-ups, available STAB moves etc mean some types will always be better than others?)
What exploitable weaknesses do "good" types in OU have? Are their currently pokemon that can exploit them and if so, how do they function differently to CAP5?
How (if at all) will the targeted types adapt to the situation created? Will people choose different movesets, abilities, etc or will they just use them more/less? How is this linked to the way CAP5 functions strategically?
What effects will the changes on certain types' presence have on the metagame?
Which members of the targeted types will benefit and suffer from this most and why?
By creating CAP5, have we learnt any new ways to counter good types or use bad types?
[17:53] <&Deck_Knight> If I Cite and Prune CiteandPrune's post, what does that make me?
[17:54] <Birkal> a citeandprune cite and prunner
[17:54] <%DHR> O_o lol
[17:54] <+Mos_Quitoxe> Cite and Prune doesn't do enough of either
[17:55] <+Mos_Quitoxe> can we make him change it or force him to pay damages
[17:55] <&Deck_Knight> It would be a lot easier for him to Cite and Prune if we made him a mod.
[17:56] <&Deck_Knight> I delegate this task to Birkal.
[17:57] <Birkal> >:|
<Birkal> if pwnemon was my little brother, I would beat some sense into him
<Birkal> and then take him out for tea and scones
<Birkal> and then we'd talk ASB and grow facial hair together
<Birkal> like proper brothers