Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 14 (the ACTUAL last poll)

[marrilpet]

I actually think Mountaineer should negate ALL damage from Rock moves, even after Syclant is on the field. That's no more broken than Levitate. He still has a huge 4x Fire weakness, as opposed to Poison types with Levitate with can only be hit Super-Effective by Psychic moves.

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat marrilpet

I actually think Mountaineer should negate ALL damage from Rock moves, even after Syclant is on the field. That's no more broken than Levitate. He still has a huge 4x Fire weakness, as opposed to Poison types with Levitate with can only be hit Super-Effective by Psychic moves.

How many Pokemon with a 4x Ground weak have Levitate. Replace Ground with Fire/Electric/Water for Flash Fire/Volt Absorb/Motor Drive/Water Absorb. Look, if this is immune to Rock, it resist the Ground+Rock combo and the Ground+Ice Combo. The immunity to Rock is too powerful, which is why there are no Rock immunities so far.

[eric the espeon]

Originally Posted by Fat marrilpet

I actually think Mountaineer should negate ALL damage from Rock moves, even after Syclant is on the field. That's no more broken than Levitate. He still has a huge 4x Fire weakness, as opposed to Poison types with Levitate with can only be hit Super-Effective by Psychic moves.

No. Just NO.

[scorchedsky]

Originally Posted by Fat marrilpet

I actually think Mountaineer should negate ALL damage from Rock moves, even after Syclant is on the field. That's no more broken than Levitate. He still has a huge 4x Fire weakness, as opposed to Poison types with Levitate with can only be hit Super-Effective by Psychic moves.

That is more broken than Levitate, though. No pokemon has ever been immune to Rock-type moves before, while flyers have always had a ground immunity.

[GengarCrysis92]

There is a logical reason that Flying types are granted imuntiy, as goes with Levitaters the A). Don't have feet or B). Just, well Levitate, and the reason is: The ground doesn't afect them. They aren't even ON the gorund. Whereas rocks aren't nesecarily on the ground. They could be falling. Which is why Flyings are hurt by Rock. There are some exceptions o this Levitating/Flying thing. I mean why give Flygon Levitate? Other than the fact that is has "Fly" in it's name. Ground doesn't do anything to him either. But w/e Im off on a Tangent. What Im saying is that I makes utterly no sense to get rid of a 4X weakness AND to have it able to dodge something nothing else can.

[Arcadia Oni]

Mountaineer is awesome. it's like Levitate, and a Rock immunity should exist too.

[Jibaku*]

Does rock immunity mean immunity to sandstorm as well?

[scorchedsky]

I don't think it would provide sandstorm immunity...Does sandstorm check a pokemon's type, or type resistances? We would probably have to search into the actual game code.

[sanjay120]

Technically Sandstorm is Rock type, but how would we do it? It doesn't receive SS damage at the end of the turn it switches in? It seems to me like giving Shedinja Hail immunity because it isn't weak to ice.

[Arcadia Oni]

Levitate gives immunity to spikes, so Mountaineer will give to Sandstorm, I guess. But the problem is that will turn to be a little (or a lot) broken... let's wait someone who knows the answer.

[Jenigmat]

I think that mountaineer and sandstorm is sorta like Steels and Black Sludge, or Sheddy and Hail. Just because technically they shouldn't be affected, Sandstorm is an end of turn effect, and so should effect through Mountaineer.

[GengarCrysis92]

AW.....I was going to say that.

[Zenigame]

I think Ice Shell is the better trait, but my opinion doesn't matter right now seeing how Mountaineer is dominating.

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Fat scorchedsky

I don't really see how my comparison to GSC or to moves that don't exist "fails." It's not like this pokemon is going to be created by Nintendo in the current generation for use in the current metagame. Sure, we would like it on some Mod server on Shoddy or something like that, but if this thing actually exists in Nintendo-sanctioned pokemon, it will be introduced in a different metagame, in the next generation, which might have all those moves that I mentioned (and don't tell me there's no reason they would ever create those moves, they introduced 100+ new moves for DP).

The comparison to GSC was to show that while at that time Spikes was only one move, Rapid Spin was one move designed to specifically get rid of Spikes. The fact that it gets rid of Toxic Spikes and SR now doesn't say anything about its original intent. How do you know that if GSC had had abilities, one wouldn't have been "this pokemon is immune to spikes?" Sure, all Levitators and Flyers would already be immune, but maybe giving a pokemon ground immunity would have been broken.

So why is it failing to bring up past metagame precedents when we are discussing a potential future metagame?

The reason you fail is because you're basing your entire argument on things that you either don't know or can't know. Saying there may be something like Stealth Vines in the future is like saying Tyranitar is a useless pokemon because there will be a Ghost/Steel with Levitate and Mach Punch in the future. Also, because GSC didn't have abilities, if Nintendo had wanted an ability to guard against Spikes, why didn't they put it in RSE? Everything you've said to this point has been based on evidence you plan to present when a 5th generation comes out, which is ridiculous.

EDIT: For things like the height/weight, I'm going to have a final "Create A Pokemon" Reflections and Final Discussion thread, where everything relating to technical details of Syclant and its pre-evo (Syclar) will be decided. Hopefully it won't require a vote.

[zxn666]

i have an idea:
Why don't we allow it to have BOTH traits? People can pick the trait that suit their teams better when they use this guy

[Jenigmat]

It already has Compoundeyes.

[Rhykune]

Originally Posted by Fat zxn666

i have an idea:
Why don't we allow it to have BOTH traits? People can pick the trait that suit their teams better when they use this guy

It already has compound eyes as one of its traits.

[Sunday]

Because we already have compoundeyes, lol.

EDIT: Beat ahahaha.

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Fat zxn666

i have an idea:
Why don't we allow it to have BOTH traits? People can pick the trait that suit their teams better when they use this guy

No way! That's like, a totally awesome idea! Sadly, if you had participated in every poll up till now, you'd know we already have Compound Eyes as an ability, and these two are fighting for the second slot. But other than that, your idea is so cool!

[zxn666]

well, if there were previous polls on the same subject, then why did you not decide it then instead of now?

[GengarCrysis92]

Some people started to get agitated with Cooper's desicion to alter the Ability a little, and Cooper didn't want arguements all over the place.

[Jenigmat]

Which you would have seen if you had read the previous polls.

[Havak]

Voted Mountaineer, though I think they're both broken.

[Sunday]

Originally Posted by Fat Havak

Voted Mountaineer, though I think they're both broken.

If you remember my Analysis of Syclant then he is actually quite easy to counter if you know he has the mountaineer ability. He can't 2HKO quite a few common walls with Ice Beam. Some being of note include Cresselia, and Dusknoir (Who hits hard with Fire Punch)

[TaiwaneseDude]

Originally Posted by Fat Ekimaster

If you manage to time your switch so that Syclant gets a Stone Edge in it's face, I'd call it well predicted, since it actually HAS the abillity not to take damage from it.

.. Yeah, but that just seems..

I don't know, it's an additional immunity, to ROCK. It just.. in an "elemental" view, it doesn't seem right. The electric/ground is "easily" explainable. Same with flying/ground. Ghost/normal (but those are vice-versa so it's okay). And then dark/psychic (a bit itneresting, but I guess it's to weak the psychic type a bit), then steel/poison (makes sense).

Because this Pokemon lives high up in mountains, it gets to deflect rocks that are on the field, and shards of rocks, groups of rock, sandstorm, and special rocks fused with cosmical powers?

If we were using that "mountaineer" analogy that we used to get the name, it doesn't really add up.

Sure, you can use the whole "Levitate" doesn't mean you should avoid mud. But mud (Mud Bomb, etc.) isn't really a "ground" thing, but it's not necessarily water, and it belongs to the dirt. If a truck was driving through the mud, it would not necessarily make a huge "splash" and "flying things" would not necessarily be.. hit by the mud. This reasonable to you guys?