Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux

[Cooper]

Originally Posted by Fat Stalling

That or he, like me, just wants all the New Poke opinions to count...

[sanjay120]

Fuck you Cooper. ;p

Arcanine evo can be Fire/Dragon. He was begging for it since RBY.

It may not be the Chinese dragon you were thinking of, but from a competitive/flavor standpoint it works.

[Flying_Ninja123]

Well, I've been lurking the poles for the most part. I missed a few of them unfortunately. But, I'd like to be more active in the second one. Hopefully I can contribute something or other.

Anyways, I'm all for either option. But seeing as how I have to make a solid decision, I'm leaning a bit more towards a completely new Pokemon for the time being. I don't have much reason behind it, but it just seems to appeal to me more.

[Stall]

Oh, and to whoever said that making an evo doesn't limit creativity.

Let's say Smogon votes to make a Skarm evo. The next poll comes in that we want a Special Sweeper...

[SkarmBliss]

Hmm, how about a Ice/Dragon Pokemon?

[GengarCrysis92]

Kind of like what Nintendo did to Magneton. Sweeper ---> Tankish.

[Adamant_Torterra]

wigglytuff
marowak
sunflora
chimecho
quagsire
qwilfish
arbok
persian
lunatone
solrock
kecleon
rotom
sandslash
seaking
granbull
cherrim
purugly
carnivine
primeape
girafarig
hitmonchan
hitmonlee
hitmontop
jynx
banette
zangoose
seviper
dodrio
mr. mime
lanturn
tropius
lumineon
vespiquen

all these pokemon could use evolutions and you still think it limits your creativity?

Evolution of an existing pokemon


Edit: We could vote for roles first if you are worried about that stalling

Edit Edit: all the pet pokemon (granbull, delcatty, persian, seaking, purugly) got shafted lol.

[Leechy]

I want a Pre-Eveloution of Tropius.

[dynamo]

Originally Posted by Fat Adamant_Torterra

wigglytuff
marowak
sunflora
chimecho
quagsire
qwilfish
arbok
persian
lunatone
solrock
kecleon
rotom
sandslash
seaking
granbull
cherrim
purugly
carnivine
primeape
girafarig
hitmonchan
hitmonlee
hitmontop
jynx
banette
zangoose
seviper
dodrio
mr. mime
lanturn
tropius
lumineon
vespiquen

all these pokemon could use evolutions and you still think it limits your creativity?

Evolution of an existing pokemon


Edit: We could vote for roles first if you are worried about that stalling

Edit Edit: all the pet pokemon (granbull, delcatty, persian, seaking, purugly) got shafted lol.

Congratulations! Your PRIMEAPE evolved into a HAZERIDER!

Really guys, if we're going to create a metagame with smogon-made pokemon, let's have some new ones instead of building on old ones. Although tbh I don't expect to play this much anyway, so my opinion is pretty pointless ;l Just saying.

[sanjay120]

Originally Posted by Fat Stalling

Oh, and to whoever said that making an evo doesn't limit creativity.

Let's say Smogon votes to make a Skarm evo. The next poll comes in that we want a Special Sweeper...

No, choosing what to evolve is choosing the role. Evolve Torkoal? Bulky fire. Evolve Farfetch'd? Physical sweeper with Baton Pass options. Evolve Kecleon? Special tank with a great support movepool.

The 'which Pokemon do we evolve' poll would basically replace the 'what role do we want' poll.

[DougJustDoug**]

Originally Posted by Fat Justin Bailey

So I've been observing for awhile now, and here's how the two options appear to me. Most of this has been said already, but I'll reiterate.

New Evolution:

Pros:

• Provides us with a framework for creating the new evolution. Gives a basis for sprite design, moves, and abilities (if we decide not to make new ones).
• Lets us rescue our favorite old Pokemon from obscurity and give them a competitive edge.
• Saves us the trouble of designing pre-evos.

Cons:

• Limits our creativity as to what types can chosen, what moves make sense flavor-wise, and what designs that the sprite artist can come up with.
• Many voters may drop out of voting if their favorite Pokemon is not chosen to evolve.
• Also, if a voter's favorite Pokemon is chosen, he may disagree with choices that go against "his" pre-set design for that Pokemon, or try much too hard to pass his design off to others.

New Pokemon:

Pros:

• Gives us full creativity over everything.
• The end result feels more like the community's Pokemon, as no one person can claim ownership over the idea. Voters are more likely to continue voting in later threads.
• More likely to get noticed by Nintendo/GameFreak for being an original design, and doesn't require a convoluted evolution method.

Cons:

• I remember someone mentioning this in the Syclant thread. Having total freedom over the design can lead to the Pokemon seeming contrived, in a way. Being able to tweak a new Pokemon's stats to be just enough to OHKO or outspeed certain threats makes it too obvious that we're designing this solely with competitive battling in mind. Of course, this could also happen with a new evolution, but the current Pokemon's typing, abilities, or stats can serve to limit this.
• Small need to design a pre-evolution. This wasn't that big of an issue in the last thread, but it still adds an extra poll. Of course, we could just design a single stage Pokemon, but that's rather boring.

Anyway, with all that said, my vote goes to completely new Pokemon. If we can avoid having the Pokemon designed solely to take out or stall very specific threats in OU, I think it could work. Maybe even make it a UU Pokemon like others have mentioned.

If we do end up going for the new Pokemon, I would hope that we eventually get around to making new evolutions. Maybe make one evolution for every three new Pokemon?

That's one of the best "first posts" of all time. Makes me wonder if this is a sock puppet? Regardless, great summary of the arguments.

[1059860]

Are we only discussing Syclant or just in general?

[KoA]

We are discussing what our next Create-A-Pokemon will be, New Evo, or New Pokemon.

[Stall]

Originally Posted by Fat sanjay120

No, choosing what to evolve is choosing the role. Evolve Torkoal? Bulky fire. Evolve Farfetch'd? Physical sweeper with Baton Pass options. Evolve Kecleon? Special tank with a great support movepool.

The 'which Pokemon do we evolve' poll would basically replace the 'what role do we want' poll.

As an example:

30% want a Zam evo
30% want a Gar evo
40% want a Skarm evo


Clearly, 60% of the community want a fast Special Sweeper. But the Pokemon will turn out as a Physical Wall.

[1059860]

Either way, just not baby evolution because that's just quite dumb. They're often useless other than maybe a better moveset.

I like the idea of a completely new Pokemon better.

[Sudo]

I'm in favor of creating a completely new Pokemon as well. I'd rather work on a fresh concept that has few limitations.

[Gothic Togekiss]

After reading through this entire thread once or twice I decided to change my vote to create a completely new pokemon all together. I feel that it's more funny and less resisting in someways.

[Justin Bailey]

Originally Posted by Fat DougJustDoug

That's one of the best "first posts" of all time. Makes me wonder if this is a sock puppet? Regardless, great summary of the arguments.

Sock Puppet I am not. Although that would make a great Shuppet split evo.

Just curious, if new Pokemon wins this, what's the next thread after this one going to be? Role? Or types?

[Gothic Togekiss]

^ Type since we need that before choosing a role.

[sanjay120]

Originally Posted by Fat Stalling

As an example:

30% want a Zam evo
30% want a Gar evo
40% want a Skarm evo


Clearly, 60% of the community want a fast Special Sweeper. But the Pokemon will turn out as a Physical Wall.

Unless it's actually 30 and 30, the top two could compete. Everyone who voted for Zam would get a chance to vote for Gar if they still want a special sweeper, and vice versa.

Alternatively, we could just scrap this poll and decide on typing and roles, then see if it fits an existing Pokemon.

[Hyra]

Update time (including bolded changing votes):51 votes - 57.30% New Pokemon38 votes - 42.70% Evo PokemonIt's five hours early, but I doubt anything will change. I think I'll wait an hour or so until I make the next thread, unless anyone opposes it.

[BubblegumAngie]

Oh yay, New Pokemon is winning. <3

This is kinda exciting.

[Stall]

Go ahead and make Thread 2 imo

[Sunday]

What are we voting for next poll? New Pogeys Typing?

[Hyra]

New Pokemon's 1st type. I didn't like the way Cooper did it last time, the top three really didn't mesh.

Next one will be a poll, probably multipart to decide the winner. Ice and Bug will definitely be excluded so we aren't too similar to Syclant. I am also considering removing Water and Flying since most type combos have been done with those two (meaning less originality on our part). Otherwise... I'm having a hard time narrowing it down to 10 options, but I don't want to do two threads at once.

Help on an objective way to do this?