(Gen 3) (RMT) Old Fashioned

[Karrot]

This is by far my favorite ADV team, illustrating a rather old fashioned ’06

Netbattle team in terms of movesets and overall design.

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers ** Necturus

Trait: Torrent

EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 60 SAtk / 140 SDef

Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)

- Curse

- Earthquake

- Ice Beam

- Rest

The star of the team is the biggest representative of the team’s “old school” theme. I

don’t even want to think about when the last time this exact set was used. As most of you

know, Swampert is a Pokemon who can counter many Pokemon, yet has many counters

itself. I, as one always favoring to end a game with a massive, continuative sweep during

lategame, created my entire team to support Swampert’s effort in that large sweep.

The EVs I created seem like I simply balanced out Def and SpDef. However, I’ll tell you

that I gave Swampert enough EVs to survive a lot of Surfs from the standard bulky

waters without taking away too much Def. Milotic and other ~236 SpAtk waters are a

4HKO, Max SpAtk Starmie’ falls inbetween the 3HKO and 4HKO line, and Suicune

needs a lot of luck to even 4HKO this unboosted.

Magneton @ Leftovers ** God of Wine
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 128 HP / 204 Spd / 176 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt

Magneton is never played until midgame. Swampert, Metagross, and Snorlax all present

an easy switch for Skarmory (or Forretress) to set up spikes, so when my opponent begins

to get the flow of my team it will be very easy for me to predict and send in Magneton to

trap the unaware Skarmory. Using this technique, I can trap Skarmory/Forretress with

pretty much a 99% chance of success, if played the way I described.

Magneton not only supports Swampert and Snorlax very nicely but also eases my

Starmie’s need to switch in too often. This allows me to save Starmie for drastic

measures, such as an Adamant Tyranitar boosted once by Dragon Dance, or a

Gengar/Heracross that is having too much fun.

I’d also like to say that I disagree with the “kill Skarmory, then it’s useless” theory that

most people employ. Magneton is, in fact, a powerful lategame sweeper it you play it as

carefully as you play your other Pokemon, and can be a valuable damage taker with so

many resistances. In short, I love Magneton, and it has saved me on many occasions

before.

Gengar (F) @ Leftovers ** Pocketboo
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 220 Spd / 36 SAtk
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
- Giga Drain
- Hypnosis
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunder

Pocket's Gengar; he’s the only one I’ve ever known to have used this unique Gengar set. :) I

used to use it very often before Gengar become almost nonexistent on my teams, and now

I’m coming back to give it another go. The idea behind it is simple: Giga Drain is a nasty

surprise for Swampert if I keep it hidden long enough. Sludge Bomb is literally a 2HKO

on most Celebi, and if not then a timely poison will bring it into range of my second

Sludge Bomb. Thunder gets a fair chance at 2HKOing bulky waters. Sludge Bomb and

Thunder’s 30% status chance, along with Hypnosis, is status hell for my opponent.

Once my opponent figures out my set, the most likely Pokemon to come in is probably a

Sleeptalking Zapdos, as this set is walled pretty fairly by it. Hypnosis puts it out of

commission, disabling its Rest ability until it wakes up. My team truly shines when

Zapdos is asleep, as all of my Pokemon suddenly become much deadlier.

Metagross @ Leftovers ** Chemical X
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Atk / 116 Def / 20 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Meteor Mash
- Pursuit

Metagross explodes against opposing Zapdos (if I cannot get it out of the way), Celebi (a

large counter to a lot of my team), and water Pokemon/Weezing (for Snorlax). As my

Swampert is a little weak in physical defense compared to most, the extra resistances this

thing ensures me a much easier time against Tyranitar and friends. Pursuit supports

Snorlax very nicely, while destroying ghost types that may wall my Starmie’s Rapid

Spin, a simple combination I’ve been finding on most of my teams.

Starmie @ Leftovers ** Graveler Weak
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 176 HP / 224 Spd / 108 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Surf

I ran a Rapid Spinner with Magneton just in case. Psychic beats down Heracross and

Gengar, two of my "problem pokes." As mentioned before, Starmie is usually used as a

lategame savior (much like the way Aerodactyl is used) when I can bring it in during

tough situations if one of my Pokemon fall.

Snorlax (F) @ Leftovers ** Cellulite
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 160 HP / 100 Atk / 156 Def / 20 Spd / 72 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I’m kickin' it old school with Sleep Talk Snorlax. 8) The heavy-duty status absorber has

an easy time getting in, but a hard time dishing out damage when the correct counters are

active. Snorlax works so well on my team because everything that walls my Swampert

happens to also wall my Snorlax, which can be both a good and bad thing. Many more

times over, however, it’s a good thing.

[kd24]

Only thing I can possibly see at the moment screwign your team is elemence but he screws you bad:

Fire blast kills gross and maggy

HP grass kills swampy and starmie

Dragon claw can kill gengar if you miss 2 hypnosis or something. also the intimidate hurts his slusge bomb

Brick break destroys Snorlax

To counter this, since he is getting more popular I would put ice beam on starmie. He really decimates this team

Other than that looks like a solid team but yeah Elemence kills you.

[Umby]

Originally Posted by Fat TLF_GF_BEACH_Lemondrop7

Only thing I can possibly see at the moment screwign your team is elemence but he screws you bad:

Fire blast kills gross and maggy

HP grass kills swampy and starmie

Dragon claw can kill gengar if you miss 2 hypnosis or something. also the intimidate hurts his slusge bomb

Brick break destroys Snorlax

To counter this, since he is getting more popular I would put ice beam on starmie. He really decimates this team

Other than that looks like a solid team but yeah Elemence kills you.

Elemence is not that great of a threat. Since it has to split its EVs to carry Brick Break, its offense won't excel in any area. That said, HP Grass won't OHKO Swampert, Meaning Swampert can take a BB or Fire Blast and pull in an Ice Beam. Fire Blast doesn't OHKO Metagross, and Meta can go kamikaze if needed. Brick Break barely even 3HKOs Snorlax, and Snorlax lays on some heavy damage with Double-Edge. All that is beside the fact that Elemence is not as common as its physical counterpart.

Leech Seed Celebi, however, is a legitimate threat, especially if it's carrying Calm Mind. I'd probably use Explosion or Destiny Bond over Hypnosis on Gengar to help with that. In agreement with lemondrop, however, I'd definitely choose Ice Beam Starmie, so Celebi can't switch in so freely without fear. If you're having issues with Hera, you might try Reflect on Meta or Maggie so you don't have to change too much on the team.

[z0MG]

Thunder sucks. Always use TB.

[rtc3]

^ he's obviously going with Thunder to make up for the relatively low amount of sp atk EVs on Gar. The extra para rate isn't bad either.

One thing though, wouldn't cele switch out on Gar upon seeing Sludge Bomb do ~50%? Not to mention Jirachi is a more common switch in to Gar than cele, from my experience. I don't see much use for SB basically, but eh.

[Umby]

Considering it's a rare chance the both Jirachi and Celebi will be on the same team, they'd both be just as common switches into Gengar. However, since Thunder(bolt) is Gengar's most universal move, there's more of a chance of Gengar using Thunderbolt to hit neutral, of which Celebi resists, meaning if both Jir and Celebi were on the same team, Celebi would be the more likely switch, considering neither opponent is trying to predict.

[Hey Oh]

i can see this team having some serious problems against duclops. You really dont have any good switch ins to take the will-o-wisp. It can come in safely vs gar/lax/starmie, and makes you really worry about booming with metagross.

I actually remember facing this team, i won mostly thanks to my mixmence, which just continously hurt whatever you threw out there. It also helped how i realized that gar lacked ice punch early on. That gar is scary though, did like 50% sludge bomb to my 290 def celebi, cant say i was expecting that.

My advice for this team: I like the type coverage you have, no striking weak other then not having a good hera switch in. Consider a -sdef nature on gar to help at least a bit with that. My advice with dusclops, is just make the magneton stalk permanantly to take wisps and force it out. I like that option best because only 1 status taker can screw you up sometimes.

Nice team, very solid all around.

[z0MG]

Originally Posted by Fat Pineapple_88

^ he's obviously going with Thunder to make up for the relatively low amount of sp atk EVs on Gar. The extra para rate isn't bad either.

Missing 1 out of 3 times is. Thunder just plain sucks compared to TB. The average damage is lower, and it's unreliable.

[rtc3]

Seeing as how Thunder has 70 acc, I'd say 7 hits out of every 10 attacks isn't shabby at all, considering that Gar is more of a hit-and-run poke and isn't expected to be staying in much to wail on pokes.

Well apparently your only knock against Thunder is its accuracy. Let's just say that some players don't play it as safe as you do.

Thunder just plain sucks compared to TB

I'd love to see a logical and well detailed argument on why 120 BP and 30% para chance is so obviously inferior to 100 acc and 5 more PP. Yes, TB is generally the more conventional choice. That doesn't mean it should be used over Thunder in ALL scenarios.

[Ace777]

You might want to use Naughty on Gengar simply because nothing else on your team can take a Choice Banded Heracross Megahorn. Magenton doesn't count because Megahorn does 64% ~ 75% on it. Also, be very careful of Gyarados because it'll be problematic if Metagross is at low heath. For this, I recommend a bulky Gengar to handle both threats.

Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 220 Spd / 28 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Hypnosis
- Ice Punch
- Thunder

This Gengar will always survive Gyardos' Hidden Power Flying 100% of the time at full heath. Meghorn also does 36% ~ 43% against it. However, this set lacks Sludge Bomb.

[Karrot]

Alright, I've taken some advice here (and rejected others), and have redone some of the EVs which I seemed to have miscalculated in some places.

Swampert: Same. (Surprisingly, everyone accepted this cool Swampert!)

Magneton: God of Wine (if you can crack the true meaning and reasoning for this name, you get infinite cookies) has become a full-time Resttalker. EVs have been modified to make it a little bulkier while changing little of its offensive capabilities. HP: Fire has been changed to HP: Ice to hit a wider ranger of Pokemon (aka Flygon and neutral damage to Swampert)

Gengar: Changed to Naughty. TBH I've never feared Heracross much. It's not like it can easily switch into anything, either.

The reason I am attacking Celebi and not Jirachi is because Celebi is a legit Swampert counter. Jirachi does nothing to this team, Swampert/Metagross/Snorlax/Magneton walling every reasonable Jirachi set that can be thought up. Attacking Celebi is the key here; if I can even hit it once I will have set it up to have a hard time dealing with my team for the remainder of the battle, meaning I have an easier time executing my strategy.

P.S. Thunder has the ability to 2HKO waters, something Thunderbolt fails to do unless you run much, much more special attack. A 305 SpAtk Thunder is the equivalent of a 385 SpAtk Thunderbolt damage-wise. Pocket is the original user of Thunder Gengar, like CBClaydol, so he can't say he hasn't influenced my old offensive style! (which this also replicates)

Metagross: 8 Attack EVs have been shifted to defense, making Dugtrio do 1% less damage. This subtle change in attack does not effect percentage calculations, either.

Starmie: Psychic has been changed to Ice Beam to handle Salamence problems. I've also reconsidered the set, which may change to my old "Karrotmie," as Tazzler so elegantly named it back in the day.

Starmie @ Leftovers **
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Blizzard (can 2HKO Celebi/Bulky Zapdos, which is very scary)
- Hydro Pump (massive damage)
- Recover
- Thunder (High chance to 2HKO the standard bulky waters)

Suffers from PP/Accuracy syndrome, however it is devastates sandstream teams like nothing else. It also fits this team quite well if you think about it. I'm probably not going to use it, though, it's just something extra to consider.

Snorlax: 16 Attack EVs were relocated to Defense to make Gyarados' unboosted HP: Fly always 4HKO, while still retaining the ability to always 3HKO a Tyranitar with 252 HP EVs and no defense.

[Hey Oh]

Originally Posted by Fat Karrot

Starmie @ Leftovers **
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Blizzard (can 2HKO Celebi/Bulky Zapdos, which is very scary)
- Hydro Pump (massive damage)
- Recover
- Thunder (High chance to 2HKO the standard bulky waters)

i dont know you all that well, but if i used that set i would get so pissed off at all the miss hax. I really dont think its consistent enough, and timid nature is better to beat out gengar.

[Karrot]

Timid does not cross the boundary of "3HKO" and "2HKO" for a lot of things you are trying to damage. The purpose of the set is to have to ability to 2HKO certain Pokemon. It's what you exchange for some 20% accuracy.

[z0MG]

Originally Posted by Fat Pineapple_88

Seeing as how Thunder has 70 acc, I'd say 7 hits out of every 10 attacks isn't shabby at all, considering that Gar is more of a hit-and-run poke and isn't expected to be staying in much to wail on pokes.

Well apparently your only knock against Thunder is its accuracy. Let's just say that some players don't play it as safe as you do.



I'd love to see a logical and well detailed argument on why 120 BP and 30% para chance is so obviously inferior to 100 acc and 5 more PP. Yes, TB is generally the more conventional choice. That doesn't mean it should be used over Thunder in ALL scenarios.

What do you want, 95 or 84 avg BP?
The only reason to EVER use Thunder is on Serene Grace Jirachi, for the high para hax chance. And it's still not worth it, imo.
You're saying Thunder is used to make up for the low satk ev. If it makes up for lower satk, it has to be more powerful, right? Why not use it on all sets, then?
It just makes no sense.

[touched]

It's an accuracy vs power thing. Everyone has their own opinion on it. So just drop it.

[z0MG]

Originally Posted by Fat touched

It's an accuracy vs power thing. Everyone has their own opinion on it. So just drop it.

If Thunder and TB had the same average damage, I could understand it. But come on. It's 95 vs 84 avg bp. TB is a better move.

[Karrot]

If you're going to complain because I use Thunder and you don't like it, even after I have also explained my reasoning behind it and given you a chance to explain what you think about it, then please stop spamming my thread with useless bantering.

Besides, I am a competitive battler who has years of experience in both conservative and offensive playing, and I know very well the differences between Thunderbolt and Thunder and how to play them to their fullest extent, even if you do not think so.

[Umby]

Meteor Mash is inferior to HP Steel. It's a trade off of 30 BP for 20% more Accuracy!!!!!!!!!111

[z0MG]

Originally Posted by Fat Synchronize

Meteor Mash is inferior to HP Steel. It's a trade off of 30 BP for 20% more Accuracy!!!!!!!!!111

Do you know anything about math? o.O
Or are you just being an ass?

[Umby]

My apologies.


30% accuracy.

[cookie]

Thunder isn't such a bad idea on Starmie tbh, it does have the lasting power to switch in multiple times. I'd stick to Thunderbolt/Ice Beam on Dragonite, for example, which has to make every hit count.

If Starmie misses, Recover any damage, rinse, repeat.

[Donny]

Originally Posted by Fat Karrot

Magneton: God of Wine (if you can crack the true meaning and reasoning for this name, you get infinite cookies)

I'm a Greek and Roman studies major at the University of Delaware. The only "God of Wine" I'm familiar with is the Greek god Dionysus (or the Roman Bacchus). Zeus killed his mother but saved Dionysus as a fetus from her womb. Zeus plants the fetus in himself and actually goes on give birth to Dionysus. (The Greeks had some f*cked up stories) Anyway, Zeus is the God of the thunderbolt. Maggy uses thunderbolts too. Dionysus is also known for his idea of equality and the blurring of gender. Magneton has no gender. I dunno thats all I got for now. Am I on the right track Karrot?

[Umby]

Maggie is obviously Bacchus as it resembles what Magnemite looks like to a drunk person.

[z0MG]

To contribute to the thread for once:
Maggy and RS Starmie in the same team isn't a good idea. Replace one of them.

[cookie]

I thought that too but without a RSer you are forced to play Magneton early, otherwise Skarmory will set up multiple Spikes, a bad thing for this particular team. There's also the issue of Dugtrio. Magneton kills Skarm, Starmie sweeps away any Spikes in play.

It's also a decent Dusclops counter in my experience, but you need to ask yourself whether extra Spikes insurance is more important than solid Heracross coverage. Choice Band Salamence will do nicely, with the added bonus of being able to catch Skarmory unawares with Fire Blast.