Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Syclant Testing - Page 11

~~Lil Ant~~ · Mar 21st, 2008, 3:12:33 PM

Now, as i was using Syclant on DJD's server, it wasn't broken at all. I used 2 sets and both were effective, but one seemed a bit broken. The first set i used was
~Substitute
~Drain Punch
~Bug Buzz
~ Ice Beam
@ Life Orb

Drain Punch is a 3hko on Blissey, but the Life Back, helps me keep my Life Orb damage down and helps me recover from Substitute. Bug Buzz hits Cresselia and Celebi. Ice Beam is for Dragons, and Gliscor, while sub helps me scout, and keeps me away from Thunder Wave or Will-o-Wisp.

While Syclant was highly effective, without Life Orb it isn't nearly as effective. Has the poorest dual threat typing, in terms sweeping. Ice and Bug isn't the best style of sweeping. Especially since Lucario can switch in, and Bullet Punch you to hell. Registeel is the best counter to Syclant. Takes lol damage from Super Power and Earth Power. The only thing that may have Syclant broken is the move Earth Power and Focus Blast because that means he can seriously hurt most of his counters, especially with Tail Glow at it's hands. If you remove Focus Blast, Earth Power and Tail Glow, i think it will do just fine and will be a little more tolerable in the OU Metagame. That way, more than just Bulky Waters can be counters, Jirachi can be a counter, along with Heatran. Of course since this isn't a Gamefreak though up Pokemon, people who try and nit pick every single thing that may seem broken to them. I ran this Tail Glow set
~ Blizzard
~ Bug Buzz
~ Focus Blast
~ Tail Glow
I swept through 3 teams with that set, Tail Glow as they go to Blissey, i Focus Blast for the 2hko. If you remove 3 moves, Syclant will do JUST fine, it's a very cool pokemon, that really should be on a lot of teams, do to his versatility and big base power moves.

eric the espeon · Mar 21st, 2008, 3:18:49 PM

Quote:

Eric, by revise, you mean remove Tail Glow? And that seems more like his only Ice resist died and wasn't really prepare for Syclant. Lucario, Heatran, Gyarados, Roserade, Swampert, and Jolteon won't really stop Special Syclant. The Tail Glow set you love (and used) either hits everone except Lucario and Heatran with Blizzard, and they die to Focus Blast/Brick Break.

The thing is not much will stop my Syclant one it gets a TG up, I would be sad to lose a great part of my team but if it would bring the more experienced battlers to our server it will be worth it. most of the great battlers that have tested 'ant have concluded it is Uber though i do not totaly agree with this i do think it is a little overpowered.

there are two main ways i see to fix this
1. change the stat spread, 555 is the highest non legind but leginds have poor movepools and often badly placed stats, this has very well placed stats (come on 121 base speed) it is bulky enough to take a STAB SE attack from Meta, and can hit INCREDIBLY hard from both sides with any sort of boost. If we lower the BST to somewhere in the 520-540 range it will be competively viable without being gamebreaking.

2. reduce its movepool. I am not very keen on this (poor TG ant) but if people feel that the stats must stay its the only way i see to avoud it being broken. Removeing TG, Superpower, and maybe Earth power, Focus Blast would break up many of its best sets and make it much easyer to counter.

Edit: Dcarter
the first set seams a bit odd, and will be walled by blissey (they can stall you with softboiled) but the second is the same as the one i made (and have posted) i find it effective to the point of brokeness.

~~Lil Ant~~ · Mar 21st, 2008, 3:27:26 PM

Edit: Dcarter
the first set seams a bit odd, and will be walled by blissey (they can stall you with softboiled) but the second is the same as the one i made (and have posted) i find it effective to the point of brokeness.

The set isn't walled by Blissey, you just need to know when to Drain Punch and when to bring it in, i ran Taunt over Sub for a 3 battles, but Substitute help me scout better. You can't something will be walled or weird unless you try it out, a lot of things look good/bad on paper, but people who are hesitant to try it out, will never know.

eric the espeon · Mar 21st, 2008, 3:34:12 PM

i talked to you on the server, it is true that non Fthrower biss has problams with the first set, but FT is common on this server.

Time Mage · Mar 21st, 2008, 5:32:06 PM

After much testing (I think I'm the only one who still uses Syclant besides eric xD), I think Tail Glow is not broken on Syclant. Or at least, not as much as SD on Garchomp, or Nasty Plot on Infernape (Worse stats, but better STAB coverage), for example.

It can pull a clean sweep after one, specially with LO, but can be stopped with a number of pokémon, including Flamethrower Blissey (Focus Blast 2HKOs after one NP, and Flamethrower OHKOs Syclant).

eric the espeon · Mar 21st, 2008, 5:39:34 PM

TM you run the LO varient, i find the sash much better as you can beat blissey and almost all of its other counters with it. I do agree that TG 'ant is less broken than SD Chomp, however chompy is not the power level we should be aiming for. It is better to have a low OU-BL pokemon than one that is bordeline Uber that we have to discuss with everyone whay tier to put it in. I think it is not the movepool that is the big problem, but the movepool combined with the stats (the higheset of all non-leginds or BST600 dragons) and stat placeing.

~~Lil Ant~~ · Mar 21st, 2008, 11:04:23 PM

Just my thoughts, but Syclant is broken, the same way Swords Dance Garchomp is broken. Infernape isn't broken because it has things faster than can revenge kill, or wall it because it is faster, such as Starmie. I can name a lot of Nasty Plot Infernape counters, that have Close Combat over Hidden Power Ice. Some of these things aren't even faster, they just have the bulk to withstand it's attacks.
~ Salamence
~ Starmie
~ Vaporeon
~ Gyarados
~ Dragonite
~ Garchomp
~Tentacruel
Now, lets look at Syclants counters when it Tail Glows
~ Blissey

Syclant with Tail Glow is very broken because it has the speed to subdue Infernape and Garchomp. It out speeds all of it's threats, mainly Azelf. I say if you give Syclant 100 base speed, remove Tail Glow, Focus Blast and Earth Power, he could very well fit in with the best.

eric the espeon · Mar 22nd, 2008, 4:04:36 AM

D. Carter, Blissey does not counter my TG Syclant, even if it has Flamethrower. i TG as they switch to bliss survive the FT with sash and 2KO with Focus Blast.

ScarfTran can switchinto 3/4 of my attacks, Tentecreul can survive and beat me down. scarfers can revenge kill me, and base 125-130s.

i also think the speed should be droped, but to the 110-115 range not 100. i would prefer to change stats than moovepool.

eric the espeon · Mar 22nd, 2008, 8:21:18 AM

Syclant sweeps again!

Code:

Rules: Evasion Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Sleep Clause, Species Clause, Timed Battle
eric the espeon sent out Abomasnow (lvl 100 Abomasnow ?).
The Ultimate993 sent out Dark Shadow (lvl 100 Gengar ?).
Abomasnow's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm!
Hail began to fall!
Dark Shadow used Shadow Ball.
Abomasnow lost 61% of its health.
Abomasnow's special defence was lowered.
Dark Shadow lost 10% of its health.
Abomasnow used Blizzard.
Dark Shadow lost 96% of its health.
The Ultimate993's Dark Shadow fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
---
The Ultimate993 switched in Draco (lvl 100 Dragonite ?).
Draco used Flamethrower.
It's super effective!
Abomasnow lost 131% of its health.
eric the espeon's Abomasnow fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Draco is pelted by hail!
Draco lost 6% of its health.
Draco's leftovers restored its health a little!
Draco restored 6% of its health.
---
eric the espeon switched in Syclant (lvl 100 Syclant ?).
Syclant used Blizzard.
It's super effective!
Draco lost 241% of its health.
The Ultimate993's Draco fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
---
The Ultimate993 switched in Avenger (lvl 100 Weavile ?).
Avenger is exerting its pressure!
Avenger used Brick Break.
Syclant lost 38% of its health.
Syclant used Bug Buzz.
It's super effective!
Avenger lost 146% of its health.
The Ultimate993's Avenger fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
---
The Ultimate993 switched in LT Penguin (lvl 100 Empoleon ?).
Syclant used Tail Glow.
Syclant's special attack was sharply raised.
LT Penguin used Ice Beam.
It's not very effective...
Syclant lost 22% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
LT Penguin is pelted by hail!
LT Penguin lost 6% of its health.
LT Penguin's leftovers restored its health a little!
LT Penguin restored 6% of its health.
---
Syclant used Focus Blast.
It's super effective!
LT Penguin lost 94% of its health.
LT Penguin used Ice Beam.
It's not very effective...
Syclant lost 21% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
LT Penguin is pelted by hail!
LT Penguin lost 6% of its health.
The Ultimate993's LT Penguin fainted.
---
The Ultimate993 switched in TheCrusher (lvl 100 Gliscor ?).
Syclant used Blizzard.
It's super effective!
TheCrusher lost 597% of its health.
The Ultimate993's TheCrusher fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
---
eric the espeon: gg
The Ultimate993: yes
The Ultimate993 switched in Celebi (lvl 100 Celebi).
Syclant used Blizzard.
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
Celebi lost 412% of its health.
The Ultimate993's Celebi fainted.
eric the espeon wins!
Lil Ant has entered the room.
The Ultimate993 has left the room.
Lil Ant: it is brokem = P
eric the espeon: hi
Lil Ant: broken*
eric the espeon: a bit
eric the espeon: yes
Lil Ant: lower base speed, and remove 3 moves
eric the espeon: i was thinking of more lik
eric the espeon: lower speed lower defences a bit and attacks
eric the espeon: maybe remove focus blast
eric the espeon: cos i like TG
Lil Ant: tail glow makes it broken, even YOU know that
eric the espeon: with its current stat spread ... yes
eric the espeon: TG Blizzard is overpowerd
eric the espeon: but its Focus Blast and its speed that lets it beat its counters
eric the espeon: IMO
eric the espeon: anyway posting this in the Syclant thread

Rena22 · Mar 22nd, 2008, 8:49:24 AM

Here's one of my battle logs. Nothing too special about it:

Code:

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause
Umbrelava sent out Abomasnow (lvl 100 Abomasnow ?).
ugo sent out Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Abomasnow's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm!
Hail began to fall!
Umbrelava switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Azelf used Flamethrower.
Heatran's Flash Fire raised its fire power!
The hail continues to fall.
Heatran is pelted by hail!
Heatran lost 6% of its health.
Azelf is pelted by hail!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
---
ugo switched in Snorlax (lvl 100 Snorlax ?).
Heatran used Fire Blast.
Snorlax lost 28% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Heatran is pelted by hail!
Heatran lost 6% of its health.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbrelava switched in Abomasnow (lvl 100 Abomasnow ?).
Abomasnow's Snow Warning whipped up a hailstorm!
Snorlax used Body Slam.
Abomasnow lost 48% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Abomasnow's leftovers restored its health a little!
Abomasnow restored 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
---
ugo switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
Abomasnow used Leech Seed.
Machamp was seeded!
The hail continues to fall.
Machamp is pelted by hail!
Machamp lost 6% of its health.
Machamp's health was sapped by leech seed!
Machamp lost 12% of its health.
Abomasnow regained health!
Abomasnow restored 12% of its health.
Abomasnow's leftovers restored its health a little!
Abomasnow restored 6% of its health.
---
Machamp used Stone Edge.
It's super effective!
Abomasnow lost 77% of its health.
Umbrelava's Abomasnow fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Machamp is pelted by hail!
Machamp lost 6% of its health.
---
Umbrelava switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
ugo switched in Snorlax (lvl 100 Snorlax ?).
Heatran used Fire Blast.
Heatran's attack missed!
The hail continues to fall.
Heatran is pelted by hail!
Heatran lost 6% of its health.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbrelava switched in Walrein (lvl 100 Walrein ?).
Snorlax used Body Slam.
Walrein lost 21% of its health.
Walrein is paralysed! It may be unable to move!
The hail continues to fall.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Walrein absorbed the hail!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
---
Snorlax used Thunderpunch.
It's super effective!
Walrein lost 26% of its health.
Walrein used Substitute.
Walrein lost 25% of its health.
Walrein made a substitute!
The hail continues to fall.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Walrein absorbed the hail!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
---
Walrein used Protect.
Walrein protected itself!
Snorlax used Thunderpunch.
Walrein protected itself!
The hail continues to fall.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Walrein absorbed the hail!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
---
Snorlax used Thunderpunch.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Walrein!
Walrein is paralysed! It can't move!
The hail continues to fall.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Walrein absorbed the hail!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
---
Walrein is paralysed! It can't move!
Snorlax used Thunderpunch.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Walrein!
Walrein's substitute faded!
The hail continues to fall.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Walrein absorbed the hail!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
---
Snorlax used Thunderpunch.
It's super effective!
Walrein lost 25% of its health.
Walrein used Substitute.
Walrein lost 25% of its health.
Walrein made a substitute!
The hail continues to fall.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Walrein absorbed the hail!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
---
ugo switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Walrein is paralysed! It can't move!
The hail continues to fall.
Azelf is pelted by hail!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
Walrein absorbed the hail!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
---
Azelf used Grass Knot.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Walrein!
Walrein's substitute faded!
Walrein is paralysed! It can't move!
The hail continues to fall.
Azelf is pelted by hail!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
Walrein absorbed the hail!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
---
Walrein used Protect.
Walrein protected itself!
Azelf used Grass Knot.
Walrein protected itself!
The hail continues to fall.
Azelf is pelted by hail!
Azelf lost 6% of its health.
Walrein absorbed the hail!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
---
Azelf used Psychic.
Walrein lost 62% of its health.
Azelf lost 10% of its health.
Walrein used Roar.
ugo switched in Machamp (lvl 100 Machamp ?).
The hail continues to fall.
Machamp is pelted by hail!
Machamp lost 6% of its health.
Walrein absorbed the hail!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
Walrein's leftovers restored its health a little!
Walrein restored 6% of its health.
---
Walrein is paralysed! It can't move!
Machamp used Dynamicpunch.
It's super effective!
Walrein lost 38% of its health.
Umbrelava's Walrein fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Machamp is pelted by hail!
Machamp lost 6% of its health.
---
Umbrelava switched in Syclant (lvl 100 Syclant ?).
Syclant used Blizzard.
Machamp lost 63% of its health.
ugo's Machamp fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
---
ugo switched in Azelf (lvl 100 Azelf).
Syclant used Blizzard.
A critical hit!
Azelf lost 65% of its health.
ugo's Azelf fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
---
ugo switched in Snorlax (lvl 100 Snorlax ?).
Umbrelava switched in Heatran (lvl 100 Heatran ?).
Snorlax used Body Slam.
It's not very effective...
Heatran lost 16% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Heatran is pelted by hail!
Heatran lost 6% of its health.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
---
ugo switched in Gyarados (lvl 100 Gyarados ?).
Gyarados's intimidate cut Heatran's attack!
Heatran used Explosion.
Gyarados lost 92% of its health.
Umbrelava's Heatran fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
Gyarados is pelted by hail!
Gyarados lost 6% of its health.
---
Umbrelava switched in Syclant (lvl 100 Syclant ?).
Syclant used Focus Blast.
It's not very effective...
Gyarados lost 2% of its health.
ugo's Gyarados fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
---
ugo switched in Snorlax (lvl 100 Snorlax ?).
Syclant used Focus Blast.
It's super effective!
Snorlax lost 62% of its health.
Snorlax used Body Slam.
Syclant lost 52% of its health.
The hail continues to fall.
Snorlax is pelted by hail!
Snorlax lost 6% of its health.
Snorlax's leftovers restored its health a little!
Snorlax restored 6% of its health.
---
Syclant used Focus Blast.
It's super effective!
Snorlax lost 9% of its health.
ugo's Snorlax fainted.
The hail continues to fall.
---
ugo switched in Tyranitar (lvl 100 Tyranitar ?).
Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
The hail stopped.
A sandstorm brewed!
Syclant used Focus Blast.
It's super effective!
Tyranitar lost 100% of its health.
ugo's Tyranitar fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Syclant is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Syclant lost 6% of its health.
---
ugo switched in Jirachi (lvl 100 Jirachi).
Syclant used Focus Blast.
Jirachi lost 37% of its health.
Jirachi used Icy Wind.
Jirachi's attack missed!
The sandstorm rages.
Syclant is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Syclant lost 6% of its health.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Umbrelava switched in Mamoswine (lvl 100 Mamoswine ?).
Jirachi used Wish.
Jirachi made a wish!
The sandstorm rages.
Jirachi's leftovers restored its health a little!
Jirachi restored 6% of its health.
---
Mamoswine used Earthquake.
It's super effective!
Jirachi lost 76% of its health.
ugo's Jirachi fainted.
Umbrelava wins!
Umbrelava: gg
ugo has left the room.

eric the espeon · Mar 22nd, 2008, 10:04:25 AM

Umbrelarva do you run compoundeyes specs ant?

Rena22 · Mar 22nd, 2008, 11:32:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat eric the espeon

Umbrelarva do you run compoundeyes specs ant?

yes

Shadow Wolf TJC · Apr 15th, 2008, 9:45:47 AM

Sorry to bump this topic like this, but I'm very new to this forum and don't know where to find a link that displays Syclant's and Revanankh's statistics (including base stats, typing, ability (with explanation of the ability's effect if it's unofficial like Mountaineer), and movelists). Does anyone know either what their statistics are or where I can find out what they are?

latinoheat · Apr 15th, 2008, 10:09:24 AM

Trying to make a case for scylant not being broken, then comparing it to swords dance garchomp is really not a good idea. There is about a 15 page topic of people saying garchomp is broken.

Shadow Wolf TJC · Apr 15th, 2008, 4:20:21 PM

Nevermind. I found out where to check out the stats of those custom Pokémon soon after posting my previous message. Anyways:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat latinoheat

Trying to make a case for scylant not being broken, then comparing it to swords dance garchomp is really not a good idea. There is about a 15 page topic of people saying garchomp is broken.

Those guys just don't fully see what Garchomp's weaknesses are. In addition to obviously having a 4X weakness to Ice Type attacks, Garchomp (along with Salamence and Dragonite) has a complete lack of increased priority moves, so Pokémon like Focus Sashed Weaviles and even Abomasnows would beat the hapless dragon down (even if it had a Choice Scarf) thanks to their strong Ice Type attacks and access to increased priority attack moves like Ice Shard.

Anyways, I checked out both Revanankh's and Syclant's statistics, though I do have my concerns that the Ralts family deserves the Humanshape/Indeterminate Egg Groups more than Revanankh (who appears to deserve just the Indeterminate egg group in my opinion, what with it being basically undead), while the combination of Syclant's high base stats, diverse movepool, and good abilities, is almost pushing it close to the uber tier (much like the pseudo legendaries of Garchomp, Salamence, Metagross, and Dragonite).

***Aldaron**** · Apr 18th, 2008, 9:39:22 PM

I just want to state that DP is a lot less about countering threats than "managing the momentum" of the battle via "checks."

Syclant suffers from the "Infernape or Electivire Syndrome" in that it has high Attacking stats and a nice move pool, but it leaves your team vulnerable since very rarely will any one be keeping a vulnerable Pokemon in on any of those.

Once they bring their "Checks" in, a glass cannon like Syclant (/Infernape / Electivire) puts your team at a disadvantage, since instead of minimizing risk and managing your strategy, you are now required to "predict" accordingly so your team isn't down a massive hole.

I know people are hesitant to legitimize the "revenge counter weak" statement, but it really applies to Pokemon like Syclant.

They look amazing on paper and with the right strategy can even perform magnificently against average players, yet against those individuals who prepare their teams to be able to have multiple "checks" against multiple threats, these "glass cannons" can really be hit or miss.

Depending on your "prediction," Sycant can be broken or about as useful as Electivire.

eric the espeon · Apr 23rd, 2008, 2:47:57 PM

So are we going to revise Syclant?

My advice is to do a poll with "Leave Syclant as it is" and "Vote on certain specific changes" as options.

X-Act · May 3rd, 2008, 8:12:10 AM

Syclant's movepool needs revising, as its egg moves list doesn't conform with how a movepool should be.

Earth Power
Superpower
Spikes
Counter
Air Slash
Crunch
Tail Glow

Most of the above 7 moves are viable moves. This should be reduced to 4 at least, by either replacing at least two of them with useless moves or removing at least two moves altogether. Even if you tell me 'hey only 4 are viable on Syclant!', no Pokemon's egg movelist has Superpower, Air Slash, Crunch, Tail Glow and Earth Power in it. That's just ridiculous.

H: Thunder Fang
H: Fire Fang
1: Leech life
1: Leer
1: Ice Shard
3: Leer
7: Ice Shard
10: Focus Energy
15: Knock Off
17: Slash
20: Bite
28: Icy Wind
32: X-Scissor
40: Night Slash
49: Ice Punch
55: Bug Buzz
65: Sheer Cold

I'd also rewrite the level-up list like so, just to conform with standards... although it doesn't affect anything.

Hyra · May 3rd, 2008, 12:09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat X-Act

Syclant's movepool needs revising, as its egg moves list doesn't conform with how a movepool should be.

Earth Power
Superpower
Tail Glow
Crunch

Those are the only really useful and commonly used egg moves. Crunch is borderline, but I'm keeping it because it is useful on a CB set to hit Dusknoir with. Only the first three really matter though and the rest could be easily dropped and not change Syclant competitively at all.

Most of the above 7 moves are viable moves. This should be reduced to 4 at least, by either replacing at least two of them with useless moves or removing at least two moves altogether. Even if you tell me 'hey only 4 are viable on Syclant!', no Pokemon's egg movelist has Superpower, Air Slash, Crunch, Tail Glow and Earth Power in it. That's just ridiculous.

H: Thunder Fang
H: Fire Fang
1: Leech life
1: Leer
1: Ice Shard
3: Leer
7: Ice Shard
10: Focus Energy
15: Knock Off
17: Slash
20: Bite
28: Icy Wind
32: X-Scissor
40: Night Slash
49: Ice Punch
55: Bug Buzz
65: Sheer Cold

Remove the fangs if you feel like it, they don't really fit and Fire Fang bugs a lot of people. That leaves only 15 moves, only two or three of which are competitively viable.

I'd also rewrite the level-up list like so, just to conform with standards... although it doesn't affect anything.

eric the espeon · May 3rd, 2008, 4:33:17 PM

Quote:

Syclant's movepool needs revising, as its egg moves list doesn't conform with how a movepool should be.
Ok

Strong Commonly used moves
Earth Power
Superpower
Tail Glow
All of these are quite common, I would be very hesitant to remove these without more formal testing.

Very Rare
Air Slash
Crunch
Counter
I have only seen one Syclant that uses Air Slash (A TG ant, he removed it at my suggestion for Focus Blast), and maybe 2 gimmick Counter-Sash sets. Not a single one uses Crunch.
IMO Crunch could be removed as it does not really fit and its not useful.
Air Slash could also be removed if need be, the same goes for Counter.

lol on a sweeper.
Spikes
Is this really viable?

Most of the above 7 moves are viable moves. This should be reduced to 4 at least, by either replacing at least two of them with useless moves or removing at least two moves altogether. Even if you tell me 'hey only 4 are viable on Syclant!', no Pokemon's egg movelist has Superpower, Air Slash, Crunch, Tail Glow and Earth Power in it. That's just ridiculous.

H: Thunder Fang
H: Fire Fang
1: Leech life
1: Leer
1: Ice Shard
3: Leer
7: Ice Shard
10: Focus Energy
15: Knock Off
17: Slash
20: Bite
28: Icy Wind
32: X-Scissor
40: Night Slash
49: Ice Punch
55: Bug Buzz
65: Sheer Cold

I'd also rewrite the level-up list like so, just to conform with standards... although it doesn't affect anything.

Ok, go for it I think.

So... how are we going to do this?
How about X-Act revises the movepool, we all make suggestions then put it to poll whether we use the old one or the new one?

***DougJustDoug***** · May 3rd, 2008, 6:25:38 PM

I am writing a new defined process for revising our pokemon, but I'm not finished with it. I actually made a few suggestions in some other threads, but it didn't really get much discussion. I am still adamant that we need a defined way to make revisions.

We are not revising a pokemon just because X-Act posted a new movepool and a few people agree with it. We need a clear process for it. I have been an advocate of making changes to both our completed pokes. But, I don't want it to be a disorganized mess.

If you would like to propose a defined process, please do so in the process thread. I've had other things I am working on, and this new process has been a lower priority. If someone else would like to take a stab at writing a process, I'd love to see it. So far, all I've seen is general suggestions and complaints.

Hyra · May 3rd, 2008, 11:45:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat DougJustDoug

I am writing a new defined process for revising our pokemon, but I'm not finished with it. I actually made a few suggestions in some other threads, but it didn't really get much discussion. I am still adamant that we need a defined way to make revisions.

We are not revising a pokemon just because X-Act posted a new movepool and a few people agree with it. We need a clear process for it. I have been an advocate of making changes to both our completed pokes. But, I don't want it to be a disorganized mess.

If you would like to propose a defined process, please do so in the process thread. I've had other things I am working on, and this new process has been a lower priority. If someone else would like to take a stab at writing a process, I'd love to see it. So far, all I've seen is general suggestions and complaints.

I really don't think we'll ever have more than a general approach, there are too many factors in making a Pokemon to redesign without affecting most of the Pokemon. A general outline is really all we need, each revision should go on a case by case basis.

Also, X-Act just reposted Syclant's movepool, not a new one.

Darkflagrance · May 4th, 2008, 12:33:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

I really don't think we'll ever have more than a general approach, there are too many factors in making a Pokemon to redesign without affecting most of the Pokemon. A general outline is really all we need, each revision should go on a case by case basis.

Also, X-Act just reposted Syclant's movepool, not a new one.

On the other hand, the community should definitely be involved in the decisions to change movepools and what not.

X-Act · May 4th, 2008, 5:30:17 AM

I didn't ever post a new movepool. I just said that the movepool needs revising. :(

Luck · May 4th, 2008, 6:20:27 AM

We should only revise if a pokemon does fit what we wanted to be or total imbalance the game and syclant is fine in both aspect.I don't care somebody think syclant egg moves are to good because "WE" voted for it and if "WE" didn't wanted we not have voted for those egg moves.The primary reason for change any poke should be BALANCE. If does not mess with balance of the game no need to change.

If we make a change it should be a very small changes .The smallest change possible to get the intended effect so as the poke can stay as close as possible to what people voted.

Also it is early to be talking about changes for the next couple of types could be

Posion/Rock
Flying/Fighting
Electric/Rock

If these one these poke types should check the pokes that we have.Syclant is going to down in use once the fire/grass comes and probaly drop even more if one of those poke are made.I say wait until we make 6 pokes then a have big overview metagame thread

In that thread should have

-How discuss the game has changed,If changes are a good or bad thing
-A vote on what poke need to be fixed
-What direction the Cap project is heading

Mar 21st, 2008, 3:12:33 PM	#251
~~Lil Ant~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 183	Now, as i was using Syclant on DJD's server, it wasn't broken at all. I used 2 sets and both were effective, but one seemed a bit broken. The first set i used was ~Substitute ~Drain Punch ~Bug Buzz ~ Ice Beam @ Life Orb Drain Punch is a 3hko on Blissey, but the Life Back, helps me keep my Life Orb damage down and helps me recover from Substitute. Bug Buzz hits Cresselia and Celebi. Ice Beam is for Dragons, and Gliscor, while sub helps me scout, and keeps me away from Thunder Wave or Will-o-Wisp. While Syclant was highly effective, without Life Orb it isn't nearly as effective. Has the poorest dual threat typing, in terms sweeping. Ice and Bug isn't the best style of sweeping. Especially since Lucario can switch in, and Bullet Punch you to hell. Registeel is the best counter to Syclant. Takes lol damage from Super Power and Earth Power. The only thing that may have Syclant broken is the move Earth Power and Focus Blast because that means he can seriously hurt most of his counters, especially with Tail Glow at it's hands. If you remove Focus Blast, Earth Power and Tail Glow, i think it will do just fine and will be a little more tolerable in the OU Metagame. That way, more than just Bulky Waters can be counters, Jirachi can be a counter, along with Heatran. Of course since this isn't a Gamefreak though up Pokemon, people who try and nit pick every single thing that may seem broken to them. I ran this Tail Glow set ~ Blizzard ~ Bug Buzz ~ Focus Blast ~ Tail Glow I swept through 3 teams with that set, Tail Glow as they go to Blissey, i Focus Blast for the 2hko. If you remove 3 moves, Syclant will do JUST fine, it's a very cool pokemon, that really should be on a lot of teams, do to his versatility and big base power moves. Last edited by Lil Ant; Mar 21st, 2008 at 3:15:41 PM.

Mar 21st, 2008, 3:34:12 PM	#254
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	i talked to you on the server, it is true that non Fthrower biss has problams with the first set, but FT is common on this server. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Mar 21st, 2008, 5:32:06 PM	#255
Time Mage Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 935 Granada, Spain	After much testing (I think I'm the only one who still uses Syclant besides eric xD), I think Tail Glow is not broken on Syclant. Or at least, not as much as SD on Garchomp, or Nasty Plot on Infernape (Worse stats, but better STAB coverage), for example. It can pull a clean sweep after one, specially with LO, but can be stopped with a number of pokémon, including Flamethrower Blissey (Focus Blast 2HKOs after one NP, and Flamethrower OHKOs Syclant). __________________ D/P FC: 2749 8421 3675

Mar 21st, 2008, 5:39:34 PM	#256
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	TM you run the LO varient, i find the sash much better as you can beat blissey and almost all of its other counters with it. I do agree that TG 'ant is less broken than SD Chomp, however chompy is not the power level we should be aiming for. It is better to have a low OU-BL pokemon than one that is bordeline Uber that we have to discuss with everyone whay tier to put it in. I think it is not the movepool that is the big problem, but the movepool combined with the stats (the higheset of all non-leginds or BST600 dragons) and stat placeing. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Mar 22nd, 2008, 4:04:36 AM	#258
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	D. Carter, Blissey does not counter my TG Syclant, even if it has Flamethrower. i TG as they switch to bliss survive the FT with sash and 2KO with Focus Blast. ScarfTran can switchinto 3/4 of my attacks, Tentecreul can survive and beat me down. scarfers can revenge kill me, and base 125-130s. i also think the speed should be droped, but to the 110-115 range not 100. i would prefer to change stats than moovepool. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Mar 21st, 2008, 3:27:26 PM	#253
~~Lil Ant~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 183	Edit: Dcarter the first set seams a bit odd, and will be walled by blissey (they can stall you with softboiled) but the second is the same as the one i made (and have posted) i find it effective to the point of brokeness. The set isn't walled by Blissey, you just need to know when to Drain Punch and when to bring it in, i ran Taunt over Sub for a 3 battles, but Substitute help me scout better. You can't something will be walled or weird unless you try it out, a lot of things look good/bad on paper, but people who are hesitant to try it out, will never know.

Mar 21st, 2008, 11:04:23 PM	#257
~~Lil Ant~~ Banned deucer. Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 183	Just my thoughts, but Syclant is broken, the same way Swords Dance Garchomp is broken. Infernape isn't broken because it has things faster than can revenge kill, or wall it because it is faster, such as Starmie. I can name a lot of Nasty Plot Infernape counters, that have Close Combat over Hidden Power Ice. Some of these things aren't even faster, they just have the bulk to withstand it's attacks. ~ Salamence ~ Starmie ~ Vaporeon ~ Gyarados ~ Dragonite ~ Garchomp ~Tentacruel Now, lets look at Syclants counters when it Tail Glows ~ Blissey Syclant with Tail Glow is very broken because it has the speed to subdue Infernape and Garchomp. It out speeds all of it's threats, mainly Azelf. I say if you give Syclant 100 base speed, remove Tail Glow, Focus Blast and Earth Power, he could very well fit in with the best.

Mar 22nd, 2008, 10:04:25 AM	#261
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	Umbrelarva do you run compoundeyes specs ant? __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

Apr 15th, 2008, 9:45:47 AM	#263
Shadow Wolf TJC Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 40 Raleigh, NC	Who are Syclant and Revanankh? Sorry to bump this topic like this, but I'm very new to this forum and don't know where to find a link that displays Syclant's and Revanankh's statistics (including base stats, typing, ability (with explanation of the ability's effect if it's unofficial like Mountaineer), and movelists). Does anyone know either what their statistics are or where I can find out what they are? __________________ Creating and using new and creative/innovative Pokémon builds? Certainly. Battling competitively? Not my style. :P

Apr 15th, 2008, 10:09:24 AM	#264
latinoheat Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,921	Trying to make a case for scylant not being broken, then comparing it to swords dance garchomp is really not a good idea. There is about a 15 page topic of people saying garchomp is broken.

Apr 18th, 2008, 9:39:22 PM	#266
*Aldaron Don't tell me what to do. Super Moderator** Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,367	I just want to state that DP is a lot less about countering threats than "managing the momentum" of the battle via "checks." Syclant suffers from the "Infernape or Electivire Syndrome" in that it has high Attacking stats and a nice move pool, but it leaves your team vulnerable since very rarely will any one be keeping a vulnerable Pokemon in on any of those. Once they bring their "Checks" in, a glass cannon like Syclant (/Infernape / Electivire) puts your team at a disadvantage, since instead of minimizing risk and managing your strategy, you are now required to "predict" accordingly so your team isn't down a massive hole. I know people are hesitant to legitimize the "revenge counter weak" statement, but it really applies to Pokemon like Syclant. They look amazing on paper and with the right strategy can even perform magnificently against average players, yet against those individuals who prepare their teams to be able to have multiple "checks" against multiple threats, these "glass cannons" can really be hit or miss. Depending on your "prediction," Sycant can be broken or about as useful as Electivire. __________________ beast mode

Apr 23rd, 2008, 2:47:57 PM	#267
eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,695	So are we going to revise Syclant? My advice is to do a poll with "Leave Syclant as it is" and "Vote on certain specific changes" as options. __________________ For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.

May 3rd, 2008, 8:12:10 AM	#268
X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,679 Malta	Syclant's movepool needs revising, as its egg moves list doesn't conform with how a movepool should be. Earth Power Superpower Spikes Counter Air Slash Crunch Tail Glow Most of the above 7 moves are viable moves. This should be reduced to 4 at least, by either replacing at least two of them with useless moves or removing at least two moves altogether. Even if you tell me 'hey only 4 are viable on Syclant!', no Pokemon's egg movelist has Superpower, Air Slash, Crunch, Tail Glow and Earth Power in it. That's just ridiculous. H: Thunder Fang H: Fire Fang 1: Leech life 1: Leer 1: Ice Shard 3: Leer 7: Ice Shard 10: Focus Energy 15: Knock Off 17: Slash 20: Bite 28: Icy Wind 32: X-Scissor 40: Night Slash 49: Ice Punch 55: Bug Buzz 65: Sheer Cold I'd also rewrite the level-up list like so, just to conform with standards... although it doesn't affect anything. __________________ http://users.smogon.com/X-Act For all your Pokemon needs (and more!) including: the Defensive EVs applet, the Probabilities of Breeding IVs in Pokemon applet, and the Ratings of Pokemon Base Stats applet (now Version 2.0!). And also the IV to PID applet! Last edited by X-Act; May 3rd, 2008 at 8:14:46 AM.

May 3rd, 2008, 6:25:38 PM	#271
*DougJustDoug* Knows the great enthusiasms Administrator** Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,901 Houston, TX	I am writing a new defined process for revising our pokemon, but I'm not finished with it. I actually made a few suggestions in some other threads, but it didn't really get much discussion. I am still adamant that we need a defined way to make revisions. We are not revising a pokemon just because X-Act posted a new movepool and a few people agree with it. We need a clear process for it. I have been an advocate of making changes to both our completed pokes. But, I don't want it to be a disorganized mess. If you would like to propose a defined process, please do so in the process thread. I've had other things I am working on, and this new process has been a lower priority. If someone else would like to take a stab at writing a process, I'd love to see it. So far, all I've seen is general suggestions and complaints. __________________ My Art Thread: ArtJustArt - The Art of DougJustDoug

May 4th, 2008, 5:30:17 AM	#274
X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,679 Malta	I didn't ever post a new movepool. I just said that the movepool needs revising. :( __________________ http://users.smogon.com/X-Act For all your Pokemon needs (and more!) including: the Defensive EVs applet, the Probabilities of Breeding IVs in Pokemon applet, and the Ratings of Pokemon Base Stats applet (now Version 2.0!). And also the IV to PID applet!

May 4th, 2008, 6:20:27 AM	#275
Luck Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 518	We should only revise if a pokemon does fit what we wanted to be or total imbalance the game and syclant is fine in both aspect.I don't care somebody think syclant egg moves are to good because "WE" voted for it and if "WE" didn't wanted we not have voted for those egg moves.The primary reason for change any poke should be BALANCE. If does not mess with balance of the game no need to change. If we make a change it should be a very small changes .The smallest change possible to get the intended effect so as the poke can stay as close as possible to what people voted. Also it is early to be talking about changes for the next couple of types could be Posion/Rock Flying/Fighting Electric/Rock If these one these poke types should check the pokes that we have.Syclant is going to down in use once the fire/grass comes and probaly drop even more if one of those poke are made.I say wait until we make 6 pokes then a have big overview metagame thread In that thread should have -How discuss the game has changed,If changes are a good or bad thing -A vote on what poke need to be fixed -What direction the Cap project is heading __________________ A counter must be able to both switch into the pokémon it's supposed to counter, with little to no risk to itself, and also pose an immediate threat to said pokémon.