Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Discussion 8

[Rhykune]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Hammer Arm

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-ThunderPunch
-FirePunch

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-No

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes

Hammer Arm is perfect for this. ThunderPunch and Fire Punch for coverage, but no Ice Punch for pwnage. No Recovery and I want Will-o-Wisp for versatility.

[Gmax]

This thing is NOT getting Rapid Spin Nihilus. Lots of things make sense, such as a Slacking Off Snorlax, but when they're too overpowered they are not implemented.

[Hyra]

Okay, Dig is mainly because of Cooper. He pointed out that Mummies should have complete control over the Desert. There's also the fact that he needs to dig to get out of the tomb. Digging isn't always down.

I think I will throw in Sky Uppercut as a breeding move (if possible). It's largely inferior to the other Fighting moves I mentioned, which all have at least 100 BP. Force Palm isn't going on the movepool because Revenge fits much better and has the same stats, just a different side effect.

I think I'm going to remove Nasty Plot from the movepool. I much prefer to keep Aura Sphere, Shadow Ball, and Earth Power as thematic moves. As I was planning the learn set, I realized I could make it tell a story:

Beginning of movepool is when he is trapped in the tomb. Once the Eye moves come in, someone has broken in. Mummy learns Ancient Power, evolves and goes to town on these guys, which is why Revenge is there instead of Force Palm. Hyper Voice, Shadow Punch, Icy Wind, and Power Whip is him chasing these people around. Moonlight is when he breaks out of the pyramid. He then gains control over the desert, which is where Earth Power, Shadow Ball, and Aura Sphere come in.

Hypnosis and Nightmare are on there as a pair. Once again, Cooper's suggestion and it makes sense, sort of. I would not be opposed to removing these though.

[Pneuma]

Hammer Arm.
Only Ice Punch.
Moonlight.
No WoW.

[nihilist]

Originally Posted by Fat gmax

This thing is NOT getting Rapid Spin Nihilus. Lots of things make sense, such as a Slacking Off Snorlax, but when they're too overpowered they are not implemented.

i can see where you are going with this, but rapid spin would not make it overpowered. Snorlax with slack off will sweep teams with curse, but the mummy with rapid spin, well, will just add to the utility of this poke. Its not a must, it would just be cool to add to the pool of pokes with rapid spin

no force palm? come on!
it would be perfect for a poke like this.
i would take out hypnosis for force palm.
it seems much fairer.

[darkie]

Meh, Hyper Voice doesn't make too much sense, since its mouth seems to bandaged up.

[Havak]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Cross Chop
-Dynamic Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power

It's either Super Power or Hammer Arm. Since its Speed isn't too appealing Hammer Arm would be fine, but Super Power seems more fitting for some reason.

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-ThunderPunch

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight (fits better with a vengeful mummy than Morning Sun)
-No

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes
-No

[tgva8889]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??

Personally, I like Superpower and Hammer Arm. Super Power seems like it would be better on a sort of mixed set, while Hammer Arm would probably be better in general. If I'm only picking one, it's definitely Hammer Arm, but Superpower does seem like it has potential. I don't like Dynamicpunch because without No Guard, it will never hit, ever, basically eliminating it from his possible fighting moves. I don't like Close Combat and Cross Chop because they seem like they might be too powerful. I don't think we want a Physical Suicune.

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??

I don't see the flavor behind Fire or Thunder punches. Fire Punch really doesn't make sense. That being said, Ice Punch doesn't really seem to help this guy against much he really needed help against. "Coverage" isn't really much of a matter, because there's only 0 pokemon that this guy doesn't hit for neutral or super-effective. While it gives him some game against the Dragons, I think they all crush him with STAB dragon moves anyways. Garchomp seems like he does.

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??

Edit: Yes, because there's still not much of a good reason why not for me yet.

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??

No. I don't like him becoming a huge inflicter, especially with tank-like defenses and a nice HP stat to accompany his offensive power. If you hit all their physical attackers with Will-o-Wisp, then you can more easily set up to BulkySweep. That seems like a problem. Plus the Dusknoir arguments, though this guy seems different from Dusknoir in a few important ways.

I also wonder about Hyper Voice. Based on the pokemon that learn it, I really don't think a Mummy deserves it. Aren't his lungs supposed to be rotting? You need lungs to have a huge voice. Also, Roar fits this problem as well, though I guess that's slightly more understandable.

I don't like Hypnosis. It doesn't make sense to me, and I think it might make this guy better than a lot of pokemon it shouldn't be better than.

Destiny Bond? Really? Ok. I'm also wary about Night Shade's power. Since he's also Fighting type, any Normal type trying to resist it would probably meet doom. I don't think the other pokemon with access to that type of move can use it effectively, but I think this pokemon could.

I'm not quite certain behind the flavor of learning Poison Jab, but it seems like a fine attack, considering how Poison hits Grass pokemon, and that's all.

Force Palm seems like a fine addition. The paralysis chance would definitely help this pokemon, and it could realistically acquire it, being a Fighting type and a Humanshape. I'm not sure how huge that paralysis chance will affect him, though.

Finally, if he's getting moves like Scary Face and Glare, shouldn't he learn Leer at some point early on?

[Hyra]

Originally Posted by Fat nihilus

no force palm? come on!
it would be perfect for a poke like this.
i would take out hypnosis for force palm.
it seems much fairer.

Force Palm and Revenge are very redundant. and giving it Force Palm after a stronger move is eh.... Force Palm might go under breeding moves, but we can only have so many of those. I already know that Grudge, Spite, etc. aren't leaving just for thematic purposes. Basically, do you guys want Sky Uppercut or Force Palm as a breeding move.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Fat tgva8889;1023264I also wonder about Hyper Voice. Based on the pokemon that learn it, I really don't think a Mummy deserves it. Aren't his lungs supposed to be rotting? You need lungs to have a [URL="http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0097.html"

huge voice[/URL]. Also, Roar fits this problem as well, though I guess that's slightly more understandable.

Those moves were made with the movie the Mummy in mind. Hyper Voice is really just filler and I could probably just replace it with Roar in the learn set. Roar isn't leaving because you would be pissed and Roar through the wrappings anyway if someone broke into your pyramid.

I don't like Hypnosis. It doesn't make sense to me, and I think it might make this guy better than a lot of pokemon it shouldn't be better than.

Destiny Bond? Really? Ok. I'm also wary about Night Shade's power. Since he's also Fighting type, any Normal type trying to resist it would probably meet doom. I don't think the other pokemon with access to that type of move can use it effectively, but I think this pokemon could.

Destiny Bond really doesn't do anything for it, since you need to be fast to use it effectively. Have you seen Blissey lately? It gets Shadow Ball and Seismic Toss. Do you see Blissey sweeping teams with those two moves. Night Shade will probably be removed in favor of better fitting egg moves, but it is no where near over powered.

I'm not quite certain behind the flavor of learning Poison Jab, but it seems like a fine attack, considering how Poison hits Grass pokemon, and that's all.

Poison Mummies. Eh, its mostly there to round stuff out. Someone suggested it and there's no real reason against it.

Force Palm seems like a fine addition. The paralysis chance would definitely help this pokemon, and it could realistically acquire it, being a Fighting type and a Humanshape. I'm not sure how huge that paralysis chance will affect him, though.

Finally, if he's getting moves like Scary Face and Glare, shouldn't he learn Leer at some point early on?

Leer was in there, I just ran out of room.

[Gothic Togekiss]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Force Palm and Revenge are very redundant. and giving it Force Palm after a stronger move is eh.... Force Palm might go under breeding moves, but we can only have so many of those. I already know that Grudge, Spite, etc. aren't leaving just for thematic purposes. Basically, do you guys want Sky Uppercut or Force Palm as a breeding move.

I rather for this guy to have Sky Uppercut as breed move rather than Force Palm personally since this guy doesn't need every move that could cripple in coming counters.

[CardsOfTheHeart]

...I'm having trouble seeing how Sky Uppercut fits. Yes, it's floating, but the existing users of Sky Uppercut have legs. Sky Uppercut is described as "an uppercut thrown as if leaping into the sky." How is this Pokemon going to jump without legs?

Force Palm, on the other hand, capitalizes on our Pokemon's notable arms, its low Speed, and Glare. Like I said when I first suggested the move, I would really like to see it as an egg move.

[XCPetro5678]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Hammer Arm

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Ice Punch

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight (fits better with a vengeful mummy than Morning Sun)

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-No


1. Cross Chop, Superpower, and Dynamic Punch should be included as well, but Hammer Arm is my preferred choice if I must choose. Revenge should definitely be in too.
2. I've got nothing wrong with bringing the Dragons down. Still iffy on this one though. I feel like Gliscor should be a counter. Not sure if Ice Punch is overpowering, probably not though. Oh and Fire doesn't fit a Mummy, and Thunderpunch hurts Gyara too much for my liking
3. I like Moonlight. I think it fits and without WoW, it won't replace Dusknoir. 8 PP is enough of a hinder for me.
4. No.

Originally Posted by Fat [.darkie]

Meh, Hyper Voice doesn't make too much sense, since its mouth seems to bandaged up.

Dusknoir doesn't even look like it HAS a mouth, but his whole stomach manages to open... I'm in favor of Hyper Voice as a flavor adding level up move. I can easily see this guy's mouth opening with bandages restricting it in a jail-cell, horizontal way, all while letting out a pain-stricken cry. Yep, mummy's are cool shit.

*EDIT* I realize i am overly influenced by Zelda and the humping ReDeads

[Gothic Togekiss]

Originally Posted by Fat CardsOfTheHeart

...I'm having trouble seeing how Sky Uppercut fits. Yes, it's floating, but the existing users of Sky Uppercut have legs. Sky Uppercut is described as "an uppercut thrown as if leaping into the sky." How is this Pokemon going to jump without legs?

Bolded key word and the ability of flight comes to mind.

Originally Posted by Fat CardsOfTheHeart

Force Palm, on the other hand, capitalizes on our Pokemon's notable arms, its low Speed, and Glare. Like I said when I first suggested the move, I would really like to see it as an egg move.

If it's have Glare, why have Force Palm anyway?

[Aki]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Cross Chop
-Dynamic Punch
-Hammer Arm
-Super Power

Arm moves.

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Fire Punch
-Ice Punch
-ThunderPunch
Dragons + Gyara

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight (fits better with a vengeful mummy than Morning Sun)
-No
Dosen't make it overpowered imho. Agreeing with people that most people would rather use shedrest.

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes
-No
All ghosts except froslass get this...

Does it get Power Whip and Grass Knot?
-Yes
-No
I'd vote yes but I just dont seem to get how it uses these exactly.
Does this get Rapid Spin?
-Yes
-No

Yes, rapid spin. How many movies have you seen a mummy twist out of his cloth and do, well, a rapid spin? Rapid spin is a move that is generally found only in a few pokes. I mean, lets see what a majority of people use for spinners. Starmie, Tentacruel, and Forretress. And then there are the occasional Claydol, Hitmontop, and Blastoise. And then the extremely rare donphan, armaldo, sandshrew, and kabutops. The pokemon community needs more spinners. There are only 3 spinners that are really viable, the rest aren't used as often. Rapid Spin just seems right on this poke.

Thanks nihilus.
Does this get Hypnosis?
-Yes
-No
WoW is enough.

How many people actually use Dusknoir? It'd be good to slap WoW on there and see how it goes compaired to dusknoir. The whole "This will make 'Noir useless" Argument is made retundent unless you actually use noir on your team. I could say that "Infernape makes blaziken retundent, bann it". All this would do is put noir down into the realm of BL.

[firewater]

What should the main Fighting STAB move be??
-Close Combat
-Hammer Arm

Which, if any, of the Elemental Punches does this get??
-Ice Punch
-ThunderPunch
-it's a mummy- it'll burn...

Does this get Recovery outside of Rest??
-Yes, move is Moonlight

Does this get Will-o-Wisp??
-Yes

[Hyra]

CardsoftheHeart, please do not get that picky. If we felt like judging every move down to the semantics of FLAVOR text, we would have a much smaller movepool. Nintendo is even less stringent than us, letting things with moves names that are unreasonable go, such as Fly Dodrio and Focus Punch Togekiss. There is a time and place to be uber meticulous, it is when you are buying a used car (sorry, but those commercials are stuck in my head and I used the same opener).

[Pulse]

Heh, wonder who started all this Force Palm nonsense... I really think it would be a good move for it, and IMO it would work better over Revenge. If redundancy is a problem, why not use Force Palm instead of Revenge? I think it is apparent that there are plenty of people who would like Force Palm on our new Pokémon, and it is a much more competitive move than Revenge if you ask me.

But you're in charge; do what you want bro. If it wasn't for you we wouldn't even have this organized.

EDIT: >_> Whoops. If it is a choice between Sky Uppercut and Force Palm I'd think ramming your palm into someone is more plausible on a mummy as opposed to flying in the sky towards someone.

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Doesn't discount the fact that the natural users of Sky Uppercut have legs. Of course, now that I think about it, such an uppercut wouldn't actually require the user to leap into the air. Still, Mummy doesn't fit in with the other users of the move; I don't think of them as really "tankish," do you?

EDIT: You can't get rid of Revenge. It's practically a mummy trademark.

EDIT2: If you're concerned with redundancy, Makuhita has Force Palm and Revenge as an egg move.

[Pulse]

I wasn't really concerned with it, but I'm not running the show. I'm fine with either Sky Uppercut and/or Force Palm, but in my opinion Force Palm fits the role/theme/playing style much better.

[DougJustDoug**]

I think Hypnosis fits with the eye, but I still wouldn't want this to get the move.

What about Yawn? That fits with the sleeping mummy theme, and is less powerful than Hypnosis. Also, other walls get Yawn, and can use it; since they have the staying power to pull it off.

[tgva8889]

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Those moves were made with the movie the Mummy in mind. Hyper Voice is really just filler and I could probably just replace it with Roar in the learn set. Roar isn't leaving because you would be pissed and Roar through the wrappings anyway if someone broke into your pyramid.

Destiny Bond really doesn't do anything for it, since you need to be fast to use it effectively. Have you seen Blissey lately? It gets Shadow Ball and Seismic Toss. Do you see Blissey sweeping teams with those two moves. Night Shade will probably be removed in favor of better fitting egg moves, but it is no where near over powered.

The first point, touché. That would, in fact, make sense. Though I would not base this guy on the movie The Mummy, because then this guy should probably have Attack Order, since those insects seem to attack people a lot during that movie by his orders.

The difference is that this guy gets STAB fighting moves on a 105 base stat. Blissey does not get STAB and gets a pitiful 75 base stat. So Blissey with Shadow Ball and Seismic Toss would need Calm Mind to even get close to the damage this guy would deal with Hammer Arm, or even Brick Break, against most important pokemon.

If it sounded like I was saying Night Shade was overpowered, that's not what I meant. I was more saying that it could potentially pose a problem. Considering his stats, types, and moves, it gives him the ability to be somewhat unwallable. Not that Night Shade does a huge amount of damage, but an automatic 100 damage can be rather helpful, as Blissey proves by having Seismic Toss so darn often.

The wondering of Destiny Bond was more a "Does this even make any sense at all?" wonder than a power-related concern.

Can this guy not lay Stealth Rocks for an important reason?

Also, Crush Grip and/or Wring Out for flavor reasons? Or maybe Mega Punch? Considering all the normal Fighting-type punch moves it gets, I imagine Mega Punch would fit on just fine.

If it's getting Mach Punch, then maybe Bullet Punch also makes sense.

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Perhaps I'm a little too enthusiastic about the Force Palm v. Glare and Body Slam v. Thunder Wave parallel, but I just have trouble seeing how Sky Uppercut works for Mummy and how Mummy fits in with the other users of the move. It's probably a moot point seeing as how Hammer Arm would probably be used more often than those two, but when something like that happens, the decision for me comes down to flavor. Force Palm fits better IMO.

[Gothic Togekiss]

Okay, how bout this? Get rid of Night Shade and Nasty Plot and slap Force Palm and Sky Uppercut.

Originally Posted by Fat CardsOfTheHeart

Perhaps I'm a little too enthusiastic about the Force Palm v. Glare and Body Slam v. Thunder Wave parallel, but I just have trouble seeing how Sky Uppercut works for Mummy and how Mummy fits in with the other users of the move. It's probably a moot point seeing as how Hammer Arm would probably be used more often than those two, but when something like that happens, the decision for me comes down to flavor. Force Palm fits better IMO.

I'm very imaginative person so certain things like Sky Uppercutting Mummies with no legs and float are very plausible to me. I don't remember Mummies broad hand bitch slapping their tomb raider now. I also like Sky Uppercut to be on it because of this post which I now remember.

Originally Posted by Fat Jonathan

I agree that Hammer Arm does make sense on him, but it would really be overpowered, especially considering his build. He'd essentially have the best Fighting move in the game: 100BP, decent PP unlike Cross Chop and CC, 90% accuracy, and virtually no side effects in his case. It's not so much the move in itself, but the fact that when paired with Bulk Up, in addition to recieving STAB, and the fact that he doesn't mind the speed loss, it becomes way too powerful.

Also, Flareon didn't get Flare Blitz, and while it certainly wouldn't make it overpowered, it makes 100% sense for him to get it.

[tgva8889]

Originally Posted by Fat Gothic Togekiss

Okay, how bout this? Get rid of Night Shade and Nasty Plot and slap Force Palm and Sky Uppercut.

But I like Nasty Plot. What kind of Mummy would it be if it hadn't been able to Nastily Plot all its Revenge? And no, that doesn't actually work well together, but you get the idea.

Also, about moves being directly better than Revenge...Drain Punch?

Edit: Hammer Arm isn't strictly better than Sky Uppercut. Hammer Arm lowers speed. That speed reduction could be rather important in a fight, especially against Ghost pokemon.

[speedwobbles225]

Moonlight Recovery
Hammer Arm + Cross Chop
Fire and Ice punch

Give it mach punch, no shadow sneak