Syclant Analysis Workshop

[Mario With Lasers]

Originally Posted by Fat eric the espeon

Umbrelava: where did you do those calcs? i cant find a good place now that someone found metalkids is wrong.

Wait what, what's the problem with Metalkid's?

[eric the espeon]

i dunno but all the calcs are a bit off.

[darkie]

Use CardsOfTheHeart's Pokemon Resource

[Hyra]

Aww..... my post got erased as I was typing it.

Summation:
- I stole the Tail Glow set by fusing Eric's and Latinoheat's.
- SpecsAnt cannot use Super Power and Earth Power at once, fix immediately.
- Mountaineer is almost always superior on SpecsAnt because it will rarely sweep and will most likely being switching in and out a lot.
-Why is U-turn an option on the Swords Dance? It seems very counterproductive.

I would suggest replacing the current MixAnt either with Maniaclyracist's SD set (which is probably better than the all physical Swords Dance set anyways) or Eric's MixAnt. Reiterating the threat of Tail Glow isn't really worth it.

[Not Scicky]

I noticed your tail glow ant set has HP Ground, this is pointless
as syclant has access to earth power :/

[latinoheat]

earth power+tail glow is an illegal breeding combination.

[eric the espeon]

SpecsAnt cannot use Super Power and Earth Power at once, fix immediately.

Why is U-turn an option on the Swords Dance? It seems very counterproductive.

i have told him both these things in the previous thread. he did add X-Sissor as an option when i said about the U-Turn bit.

anyway to more importaint stuff Hyra what other than tentecreul is HP ground for? everything else i can see it hits is 1KO'd by its other moves.

[Sunday]

@ Puggy - If you could find it that would be briliant...

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Aww..... my post got erased as I was typing it.

Summation:
- I stole the Tail Glow set by fusing Eric's and Latinoheat's.
- SpecsAnt cannot use Super Power and Earth Power at once, fix immediately.
- Mountaineer is almost always superior on SpecsAnt because it will rarely sweep and will most likely being switching in and out a lot.
-Why is U-turn an option on the Swords Dance? It seems very counterproductive.

I would suggest replacing the current MixAnt either with Maniaclyracist's SD set (which is probably better than the all physical Swords Dance set anyways) or Eric's MixAnt. Reiterating the threat of Tail Glow isn't really worth it.

I'll check out Maniaclyracists in just a sec. Obviously two tail glow sets aren't intended, it was just left in until a suitable replacement was found (as the bold indicates)

But not being able to run the 100% acc Super Power now makes Coupound Eyes seem all the more desirable. For the same reasons as in the Tail Glow set it will remain as an option, albeit the secondary one.

U-turn is a fine move for scouting your opponents counters and such. Bug stab is easily the least missed move if you had to forgoe something, and U-turn has a decent enough power anyway. You should however note U-Turn is always the secondary option on the set.

I'll be fixing the illegal egg moves in just a sec.
EDIT: Not liking the similarities between the Specs set and the Tail Glow set now guys...

Originally Posted by Fat eric the espeon

Lucario and Heatran DIE to focus blast. HP ground is more accurate though.

Oh I'm sorry I didn't know you were in a habbit of leaving your frail sweepers in instead of switching when they are about to be KO'd.

[eric the espeon]

Oh I'm sorry I didn't know you were in a habbit of leaving your frail sweepers in instead of switching when they are about to be KO'd.

look i only said that because if this thing you wrote

Hidden Power [Ground] makes Lucario, Heatran and most importantly Tentacruel squirm while Focus Blast will deal with Blissey, Snorlax, Regice, and Registeel.

I was trying to say that HP ground is a lesser option than focus blast, as Heatran and Lucario are also beaten by Focus blast.

Ok I am sorry for getting annoyed, I am just a bit frustrated that you didn't/don't seam to take my suggestions very seriously, maybe you did not read through the Syclant testing thread and missed them I dunno. I know I did an edit once that had some spelling errors (and was not that good overall), I was rushing and forgot to do spellcheck and check over it.

[Hyra]

HP Ground is really there for, now that I think about it, Fire-types. It is a reliable OHKO move on Infernape and other non-Flying Fire-types (Fire/Flying takes Ice for neutral). Plus the generally better coverage all-around than Bug/Ice, but Ice/Fight has either equally or almost equally good coverage, so it's preference entirely on that set.

I'm starting to think we need to find more Special Moves than Ice/Bug/Fight/Ground. Currently, this is all that is listed on all Syclant sets (although SDAnt has a mention of other moves). I'm going to go look at Syclant's movepool now, but we really need another option for Earth Power besides HP Ground on the Specs set.

Edit:
There's Air Slash and Flash Cannon. Air Slash is illegal with Super Power and I can't think of any reason for Flash Cannon to be used ever, except on a hypothetical Ice/Rock which is hit harder by Focus Blast anyways. Well, we definitely succeeded in limiting Syclant's movepool by placing most of the important ones in the Egg Moves.

[Sunday]

I'm wondering how viable HP [Ground] really is. Earth Power doesn't even manage to 2HKO Tentacruel so HP's going to do even less. On that note I'm probably going to add Tenta a bit higher onto the counters page.

[Hyra]

I would just remove SuperPower from the SpecsSet. make it the one set that has emphasis on Compound Eyes.

SpecsAnt
*leave nature and EVs alone*
- Blizzard / Ice Beam
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Blast
- Earth Power
Compound Eyes/Mountaineer

It's not worth sacrificing a fourth move to use Super Power when you can just go for Focus Blast. For all the movepool we gave Syclant, it sure can't use most of it.

[Sunday]

ok, done.

[Hyra]

are we going to update the rest of this?

I've used Maniacly Racists SD set, and it works. Unfortunately, either I bring out Syclant for a guarenteed sweep, or when he comes out the game is already lost. Bug Buzz is actually really useful, hitting Cresselia for a lot of damage before stat-upping. It does suffer the the problems all LO pokemon suffer though. I have not ran the normal SD set though, so I can't say how they compare.

[Sunday]

Hyra, right now it's in a state of limbo trying to re-organise the sets. Hopefully this offers some solutions.

Two sets recommended by Mekkah:

Originally Posted by Fat Mekkah

I've been using these sets on the CAP server and find them pretty viable.

Syclant @ Life Orb
- Bug Buzz
- Ice Beam
- U-Turn
- Earth Power

You get the versatility and power in one, in exchange for not lasting as long. Syclant is way too fast and frail to worry about that usually. U-Turn helps to scout the special walls that will come. Earth Power is for Heatran. You could put Focus Blast in, but it's not going to 2HKO Blissey or anything.

Syclant @ Choice Band
- X-Scissor
- U-Turn
- Ice Shard / Ice Punch
- Brick Break

I had Crunch in the last slot when I used it, but looking back, Brick Break is infinitely better. It seems worthy of a set rather than Other Options, its Attack is every bit as awesome as its Special Attack. I have to note that I ran along a Magnezone though. Ice Beam is an option for Hippowdon.

Or you can just keep it the way it is...I would still recommend Life Orb being mentioned not just for Mixed and Swords Dance.

For other suggestions:
- Mixant, Swords Ant and SpecsSycle sound pretty silly. I'd just write them in full.
- The Swords Dance set has three options with a slash, and looking at it now, U-Turn could be on there twice. Looks messy in my opinion.

Capitalize Fang, Edge, Slash and Claw here.

- Superpower is one word.

Comments?

[Hyra]

His mixed set sounds nice sounds nice. I also don't see why we shouldn't include a CB set, although that is pretty self-evident.

I would like to say that I tested the normal SD set. It is much worse than the mixed one. X-Scissor doesn't really cut it on what you want it to.

[Sunday]

Updating CaP stratergy dex. made very few changes.

[Raj]

I came up with a Wall Breaking set that does AMAZING!
Syclant @ Life Orb
Compound Eyes
Rash
252 Att/10 Spe/248 Sp Att
Ice Shard
Super Power
Blizzard
Bug Buzz

Ice Shard takes care of those Dragons that outspeed you. Blizzard destroys shit (Skarm). Superpower OHKOS Bliss and Bug Buzz is useful and helps with Cresselia. It reached 270 Speed to outrun Lucario.

[Dormin]

Hmmmm, I really think Bronzong should be added to the list of counters. With Gyro Ball, resistance to Ice, and good defenses against the mixed set it seems like Zong could switch in rather comfortably and pose a threat.

[RaikouLover]

Definately. Hell, its not listed? I didn't even notice. Bronzong is my #1 switch into Scylant. Scarfed Togekiss can also revenge it quite easily, or switch into Bug Buzz.

I used this set to nice success:

Scylant @ Focus Sash
Ability: Mountaineer
Nature: Naive
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
*Bug Buzz
*Ice Beam
*Tail Glow
*U-Turn

Works as a fantastic lead. U-Turn scouts for counters until later. The idea is that Scylant is fast enough for revenge kills, scouting, and with the sash and mountaineer, can set up later to sweep. Or, the sash can also save your ass from a devastating sweep. This set has very useful purposes.

[sbc]

I may well use that set, seeing how his best counters are weak to Dugtrio makes U turn ever more appealing.

[Elevator Music]

I've been thinking of making a team around something like that for a long time, since you are correct, almost all of his counters are Duggy weak.

[jagged_angel]

Originally Posted by Fat SkarmBlissCounter

I may well use that set, seeing how his best counters are weak to Dugtrio makes U turn ever more appealing.

Bronzong however, is not, and is definitely the best counter to switch into Clant's fighting or ground moves which are easily predicted.

BTW Mountaineer definitely needs to be the primary ability on Specsycle as Hyra said "Mountaineer is almost always superior on SpecsAnt because it will rarely sweep and will most likely being switching in and out a lot."
I don't know why he changed his mind.

[Lolyness]

I'm using Syclant with a big time success in a hail team as a late game sweeper that works only thanks to the incredible mountaineer ability.
Goes like this (even being pretty basic):

Syclant @ Focus Sash
Jolly - 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP.
Ability: Mountaineer
- Ice Shard
- X-Scissor
- Thunderfang
- Swords Dance

The rest of the team:
- Abomasnow (starter)
- Walrein (hailstall)
- Heatran (bulky heatran to switch in against fire attacks, of course)
- Tentacruel (rapid spin and toxic spikes support)
- Gliscor (stealth rock, plus EQ immunity to support heatran, impish and stuff)

Syclant does great against powerful threats in OU.

Garchomp: Switch in w/o fear, receive the outrage and kill him with Ice Shard. If you are lucky chomp is Sword Dancing and you can laugh at him.

Gyarados: Syclant can enter against gyarados and kill him with a sword danced thunderfang or a normal thunderfang + ice shard in case you become slower because of DD. If gyarados enters the turn you are sword dancing, he has nothing to do anyway.

Sandstorm screws this Syclant completely, but If you can handle to maintain hail, he'll shine every fight.

~ Loving Syclant so far ~

PD: Of course the team is not perfect and many things may change, but the idea is testing Syclant, isn't it?

[X-Trader]

Umm... You're set is already up there as Swords Dance 'Ant but yeah. I just wanted to point out one thing, Sunday. Isn't this suppose to be formatted such as a peer edit, so it is already easy to put on the site that darkie is making with help from his helpers. I can quickly change it for you right now. Here is the changed version just in case. I think you'll have to do this with the other analysis as well.

[SET]
name: Tail Glow 'Ant
move 1: Tail Glow
move 2: Ice Beam / Blizzard
move 3: Bug Buzz / Focus Blast
move 4: Focus Blast / Hidden Power Ground
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
ability: Mountaineer
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p> This set would be nigh on uncounterable if it could run all listed options at once, and is thus very threatening when the opponent does know exactly what moves you're carrying. After a Tail Glow Bug Buzz will 2HKO all bulky waters, a Blizzard will 2HKO all who do not resist it bar Blissey and Thick Fat Snorlax. Hidden Power Ground makes Lucario, Heatran and most importantly Tentacruel squirm while Focus Blast will deal with Blissey, Snorlax, Regice, and Registeel. Mountaineer actually allows Syclant to switch in with Stealth Rocks on the field, and unless you can provide a large amount of Rapid Spin support is the preferable option on this set.</p>


[SET]
name: Mixed Sweeper
move 1: Ice Beam
move 2: Bug Buzz
move 3: Brick Break
move 4: Substitute / Tail Glow
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
ability: Mountaineer
nature: Naive / Rash
evs: 200 Atk / 56 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p> Syclant has the ability to tear through many of the common walls in D/P. Ice Beam is a great STAB in the OU Metagame which is the only metagame you will see Syclant playing in. Brick Break deals with Blissey and will 2HKO about 90% of the time. Bug Buzz provides a strong STAB that deals with many opponents. Substitute can be used if you do not want to risk mispredicting, which will often force Syclant to switch out. It is also useful to absorb Thunder Waves from Blissey and Cresselia. Focus Sash can be used to garuntee you get at least one Tail Glow in, but is best used with Weather support from Abomasnow.</p>

<p> If you do use Substitute than Superpower becomes an option over Brick Break as it can 2HKO Blissey with less EVs, but it does not allow for repeated hits.</p>


[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Ice Shard / Ice Punch
move 3: X-Scissor
move 4: Brick Break
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
ability: Mountaineer
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

[SET COMMENTS]
<p> This is a full physical version of Syclant. It's attack reaches astronomical levels after a Swords Dance. Ice Shard takes care of anything that thinks it can switch in on the Swords Dance and outspeed for a KO. Ice Punch provides a more reliable Ice STAB.</p>

Fire Fang, Thunder Fang, Stone Edge, Night Slash or Shadow Claw could be used over Brick Break. Fire Fang dents Forretress, who would otherwise wall you, after a SD. Thunder Fang is your best bet against Gyarados. Stone Edge (or Rock Slide if you don’t like the poor accuracy and want to take advantage of the flinch chance) has great coverage and can OHKO some Pokemon you would otherwise have problems with after a Swords Dance. Night Slash or Shadow Claw can beat down Dusknoir. Superpower is not an option on this set as the attack drop conflicts with Sword Dance.</p>


[SET]
name: Specs Syclant
move 1: Ice Beam / Blizzard
move 2: Bug Buzz
move 3: Focus Blast
move 4: Earth Power
item: Choice Specs
ability: Mountaineer / Compound Eyes
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p> This set has the ability to do massage damage to most of the OU metagame, provided you predict right. Coupound Eyes helps the low accuracy of Blizzard and Focus Blast, but make sure you have adequate spin support as Syclant wants the ability to switch freely with this set. Mountaineer is, as always, the "low maintenance" option. Superpower and Ice Beam allows you to still dent Blissey and also be immune to SR, but this restricts you to Hidden Power Ground in the final spot as Earth Power is illegal with Superpower. Keep in mind that only Modest Nature and Focus Blast are able to 2HKO Blissey without Stealth Rock.</p>


[Other Options]
<p> Stone Edge is a good option for dealing with the likes of Moltres and Articuno. Superpower is unable to OHKO Blissey even with max Attack, so isn't of much note other than on the Choice Specs set, or to 2HKO with less EVs. Thunder Fang and Earth Power will OHKO Gyarados and Heatran respectively, but don't be tempted to use them on anything that isn't 4x weak as unresisted STAB Blizzard or Bug Buzz will usually do more. Most of the time its incredibly powereful STAB moves will cover it better than a single attack that hits super effective against a certain Poke. Choice Band is also an option if you don’t want to have to set up your physical sweeper, but Syclant isn't built for repeated switch ins. Choice Scarf makes it a decent lead, but be sure to max the attack stats as much as possible.</p>

[EVs]
<p> Neutral Natured Syclant with max Atk and Life Orb is never guaranteed to 2HKO Blissey with Break Break, but 200 EVs Provide a very reasonable chance and a guaranteed KO with Stealth Rock in play. Any EVs leftover from your main form of offense should go into Speed. Always make sure that Syclant can survive two switch ins to Stealth Rock if running Compound Eyes. This means never give it 4 HP EVs. Either 8 HP EVs or none. </p>


[Opinion]
<p> Syclant can tear through some of D/P's most prestige walls, but is extremely high maintenance. Its typing is a mixed bag. It has two wonderful STABs for an offensive Poke, but is hindered by a horrible Stealth Rock weakness. Mountaineer takes care of this, but leaves it using a weaker STAB. If you can keep Syclant in good condition then it will be a great asset to your team.</p>

<p> In order to survive, Syclant relies on its extremely powerful and accurate STAB moves and its impunity to Stealth Rock. Taking either one of these away will weaken it significantly. If it is running the Compound Eyes ability, an opponent that can use Stealth Rock and prevent them from being spun away will stop Syclant in its tracks. If Syclant is using Abomasnow's hail for 100% accuracy Blizzard then your own weather changer will hinder it.</p>


[Counters]
<p> Tentacruel is a good overall counter, and is really only vunerable to Choice Specs Earth Power. Heatran can come in on the STABs and 1HKO if it's scarfed, but does not fare well against Brick Break or the aforementioned Earth Power. A bulky Gyarados can come in the majority of Syclant's movepool, save for Stone Edge and Thunder Fang. That same Gyarados Intimidates physical Syclants, and can take special hits with it's 95/100 defenses, along with resistances to Fighting, Bug, and Ground, the most common of Syclant's moves. Bronzong does well with Gyro Ball, great defences across the board and a resistance to Ice. Metagross can not be KO'd by anything bar a boosted Earth Power, and can threaten with Bullet Punch in responce. Registeel can take a Tail Glow boosted Focus Blast and come out still standing, but a lack of healing makes it hard for Registeel to switch in more than once or twice. Blissey is a good counter to the Spec set. Against the Mixant set, Blissey can come in on anything other than Brick Break and Substitute and can OHKO Syclant with Flamethrower, or use a status move like Sing or Thunder Wave. Priority moves, expecially Bullet Punch which Syclant is weak to, or Pokemon that outspeed Syclant can deal very heavy damage once they get in.</p>