Pyroak Analysis Workshop

[Lord Gloom]

I really don't like Choice anything on this guy. Considering how bulky he is, along with his excellent STAB coverage, it just seems like a whole lotta' wasted potential to me. He can just sit in and act an omnipresent threat when he isn't locked into a single move.

[Dane]

The only choice items I like are scarf or specs. Only because I can see him coming in, Leaf Storm/Overheating, and booking the next train to Toronto. Even then though, I agree a non choice set is likely better 9 times out of 10.

[Sunday]

Added sunny day, but I've gtg so I'll do the other updates tomorow morning.

[Karrot]

I was sitting here and I just realized this thing doesn't get Double-Edge to take advantage of Rock Head, lol.

Anyways, like I said in the last topic the Choice sets should be allocated to "Other Options," simply because the support overshadow them greatly in both usefulness and effectiveness. Howl set should still get a mention for being unique, but other than that support sets are extremely superior.

Both Aldaron's and Mekkah's EVs are nice, but we'll have to decide which would fit the best for the support set and move the other to the EV section, I think. Mixed set should be moved to Other Options, but give it a mention in how it could really mess with a lot of its counters. If it's decided to be added as a main set: Flare Blitz for Togekiss or Wood Hammer for Tentacruel; EVs would probably be max attack with enough speed to outrun Adamant Tyranitar with the leftover in Special Attack; Flare Blitz + Leaf Storm should probably be the main set for being able to 3HKO~ Tentacruel with a Life Orb Flare Blitz if it is running 252 HP/0 Def. The last move should be Synthesis/Hidden Power: Ice for recovery or coverage.

The Sunny Day set is kind of..."ineffective," but it should get mention in Other Options for being able to clear weather.

Remove Aromatherapy from the primary "Tank" set. It's included in the "Team Support" set and that should be enough mention for Aromatherapy.

The Team Support set is kind of odd. If it's okay to have three options, run Light Screen / Aromatherapy / Stealth Rock with the first slot becoming Rest / Synthesis. Mention Leech Seed in the comments, and also mention you can mix and match most of his support moves however you want. Stealth Rock is interesting because the only Pokemon that can switch in and Rapid Spin it away is Tentacruel...

The Resttalk set should be able to work in the same way Heatran's does and would probably be used successfully, because if you think about it. Dual STAB with Resttalk and the capability to cause burns seems quite useful, albeit it has a lot it can do with that Sleep Talk slot.

[Sunday]

Updated OP, I know I'm going to have to change all the names soon but I'll get around to it later.

[Lord Gloom]

Might want to edit out my commentary in the parentheses.

[Elevator Music]

Originally Posted by Fat Lord Sunday

[SET]
name: Mixed
move 1: Leaf Storm / Overheat
move 2: Flare Blitz / Wood Hammer
move 3: Brick Break
move 4:
item:
ability:
nature: Rock Head
evs:

No need for Brick Break, I assume it's for Blissey. STAB Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer does more anyways. And even with LO, a positive nature, and max attack, it still only does 49.27% - 57.99% to a 148 HP/252 Bold Blissey with Flare Blitz, so yeahhh...

I would say run something like Leaf Storm/Flare Biltz. Maybe Leech Seed for slot 3 or 4 so Blissey doesn't give you as much trouble?

Playing around with EVs, 88 Atk EVs (with LO and a + nature) 2HKO Max HP/Max Def Skarm. 164 EVs without a + nature. This OHKO's Forry too.

156 SpAtk EVs with LO will OHKO a 120 HP Mence with HP [Ice]. What's FatMence's EV spread again?

You don't need any EVs at all to 2HKO Hippo, Gliscor, Milotic/other bulky Grounds/Waters with Leaf Storm. lol @ Swampert.

Uhh... 172 Spd EVs lets it outrun no-speed Milo. (100 with a +Nature)

No matter what, this thing'll still fail on Tenta, Heatran, Blissey (possibly), Cress, and most likely Dusknoir.

So maybe a spread like Naive; 86 HP, 168 Atk, 100 Spd, 156 SpAtk. This assumes that he has LO, and Flare Blitz, Leaf Storm, and HP [Ice].

This guys really wants Focus Punch for Blissey. =/

[eric the espeon]

Always use the nature on a higher stat, + sp. attack in this case.

also I would use 88 speed (beats 4 speed Skarm), its not wroth almost 100 evs to beat 1-2 Pokemon. Pile the extra into one of the attacks, or maybe HP.

BB is also for Heatran.
I would say HP Ground is a good option on this, hits Heatran 4x and other fires hard, also hits tenta.

[Elevator Music]

Originally Posted by Fat eric the espeon

Always use the nature on a higher stat, + sp. attack in this case.

also I would use 88 speed (beats 4 speed Skarm), its not wroth almost 100 evs to beat 1-2 Pokemon. Pile the extra into one of the attacks, or maybe HP.

BB is also for Heatran.
I would say HP Ground is a good option on this, hits Heatran 4x and other fires hard, also hits tenta.

Brick Break fails to 3HKO the standard ResTalk Heatran. HP [Ground] is pretty useless as you fail to OHKO a 252 HP/96 SpDef (ResTalk) Tran and Leaf Storm does more to Tenta on the switch (you won't be sticking around to make the power drop matter).

You could run HP [Elec], but the only three things you'll be hitting harder than anything are Tran (who you won't be hitting very hard) Gyara and... Mantine.

I would find the extra Speed worth it, it allows you to kill some pokemon you otherwise couldn't, but if you can find extra things to kill with those 84 EVs you cut off, I'll change it. Btw, you shouldn't say it's not a good idea to spend ~100 Evs outrunning 1 or 2 pokemon when those 88 EVs you give it allow it to outrun a grand total of Skarm, Vappy, and Umbreon.

If you ran a +SpAtk Nature (Rash or Mild), the EVs would become: 86 HP / 164 Atk / 172 Spd / 56 SpAtk. That leaves an extra 32 EVs. I don't know of a good place to put them. Help here.

But if we go with the suggestion of cutting down on Speed, we have an extra 116 EVs to use. The first thing I would do is try and make that 2HKO on Milo into a OHKO, seeing as we don't outspeed it now. That requires 136 SpAtk Evs, so now we're left with 36 EVs leftover. Put them where you want.

The final EV spread for you would be 86 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Spd / 136 SpAtk + 36 random EVs. Throw them wherever you want.

[eric the espeon]

Originally Posted by Fat AlphabetSoup

Brick Break fails to 3HKO the standard ResTalk Heatran. HP [Ground] is pretty useless as you fail to OHKO a 252 HP/96 SpDef (ResTalk) Tran and Leaf Storm does more to Tenta on the switch (you won't be sticking around to make the power drop matter).

From my experience on the CaP server almost all Heatrans are Timid ScarfTrans to counter Syclant, in fact I have not seen a single resttalk heatran in all my games there.
Grass attacks and HP Ice are 4x resisted and Fire is absorbed, I think HP ground is a viable alternative to Ice.

You could run HP [Elec], but the only three things you'll be hitting harder than anything are Tran (who you won't be hitting very hard) Gyara and... Mantine.

fine.

I would find the extra Speed worth it, it allows you to kill some pokemon you otherwise couldn't, but if you can find extra things to kill with those 84 EVs you cut off, I'll change it. Btw, you shouldn't say it's not a good idea to spend ~100 Evs outrunning 1 or 2 pokemon when those 88 EVs you give it allow it to outrun a grand total of Skarm, Vappy, and Umbreon.

but Vappy and Skarm are much more common than Milotic... but whatever I don't know really but 172 just looks like a bit much.

The final EV spread for you would be 86 HP / 164 Atk / 88 Spd / 136 SpAtk + 36 random EVs. Throw them wherever you want.

mmm... how about dumping them into Sp. attack?

[Dane]

The problem with HP Ground is that the only things it really hits harder than it's basic Fire and Grass attacks is Heatran. HP Rock hits so many other things harder (or just as hard in the case of Mono-Fire Pokemon), and still hits Heatran for base value (if you HAD to fight him).

[eric the espeon]

HP Rock and Ground hit fire types, but is hitting Heatran or the fire/flyings more important? I would say Heatran as it is much more common, however Rock hits flying dragons 2x as well.

Edit: GOGO 1333th post!

[Elevator Music]

Originally Posted by Fat eric the espeon

HP Rock and Ground hit fire types, but is hitting Heatran or the fire/flyings more important? I would say Heatran as it is much more common, however Rock hits flying dragons 2x as well.

Edit: GOGO 1333th post!

I actually... forgot about HP [Rock]. I would prefer HP [Rock] myself. It hits everything hard, like the other Flash Fire users (excluding Heatran, but I guess with lack of a recovery move Heaatran won't be showing his face too much. Once people realize that Moltres (and I guess Charizard) actually make decent counters to Syclant, Revenankh, and hopefully this guy (without HP [Rock] of course), I expect them to get common. The only thing that holds them back is the fact that Revenankh is "OMG try and spin me bitch" (Dusknoir 2.0) and they have a 4x SR weakness.

But yeah, I'm liking HP [Rock]. You don't really drop a OHKO on anything besides Moltres and Charizard, but you do get a nice hits on Gyara (something close to a 2HKO, but you can Leaf Storm the next switch in to 2HKO it), Mence (2HKO'd), and the Flash Fire pokes (all at most 2HKO'd minus Tran) while still dishing out a nice amount of damage to Tran. Granted, he can't fight Mence or Gyara because they outspeed and can Stone Edge, but it's still something nice.

Eric, just wait till your 1337 post. =)

[Maniaclyrasist]

Posting to say I think Leech Seed is a pretty good option over Grass Knot for the Rest Talking set and could work to provide on hell of an annoying tank which can Status as well as "Sap Health" while sleeping.

[Sunday]

Made some big chances today guys.

[DougJustDoug**]

Thanks for the update, Sunday. Two minor housekeeping tasks:

1) In the CAP Pokedex, you need to add links to the Pyroak entry from the the top post.

2) Please remove the sig from the Pyroak reference posts.

[The.Lost.Hylian]

Originally Posted by Fat Dane

Then you have Thick Fat Pokemon, like Snorlax, Hariyama, and Miltank. They all halve your fire damage, and only take base line damage from grass.

Grass Knot says hi

[1059860]

Nice job Sunday

[Sunday]

What still needs to be done
-Fix set somments for the Rest+Sleep Talk set
-Fix Special Sets EVs.
-Come to a defenitive conclusion on the best moves for the mixed attacker.
-Finish Opinion section. The words just wern't flowing last time I attempted to fix it.

[Mekkah**]

Add "playtest this thing more" to that. I'm not about to give in to the "Pyroak sucks" fad but he's definitely not living up to the "zomg almost broken" theorymon.

[Time Mage]

As a pure wall, I understand it won't be that good, but what about the "wall scaring tank" role? Being able to scare most walls with only one pokémon seems like a big advantage to me.

This is all theorymon, of course, I still don't have time for Shoddy ;_;

[Lord Gloom]

I'll try out my set when I get back today, I want to check out what this bruiser can really do.

[jrrrrrrr]

Fire Blast and Flare Blitz should be added as an option with Overheat on the Mixed Set, since the EV spread clearly focuses on Atk over SpAtk, and the SpAtk drop that Overheat gives would not be desirable....especially since Skarmory, Forretress and Bronzong are never coming into this thing anyways.

Also, it's "Battle Armor" in game (the correct spelling), not "Battle Armour" (the less correct spelling)

[Elagune]

Originally Posted by Fat jrrrrrrr

Also, it's "Battle Armor" in game (the correct spelling), not "Battle Armour" (the less correct spelling)

Well, maybe Pyroak is Canadian, eh? You ever thought of that?

<--- Is also Canadian.

[Sunday]

*shrugs at American Spelling*
Tom-a-to, Tom-ah-to

Made some more updates. Can't wait until the weekend to playtest Pyroak some more. There's no one on in my afternoons lol

EDIT: Jrrrrr that nature and EV Spread I meant to change. I got distracted while doing it last time though...