DP Suicune .

RaikouLover · Jul 31st, 2008, 6:26:35 PM

Although it is similar to other Suicune sets, this set deserves its own mention because it plays differently than the others.

[SET]
Name: Sleep Shuffle
Move 1: Roar
Move 2: Surf
Move 3: Rest
Move 4: Sleep Talk
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Nature: Bold

[SET COMMENTS]
 Suicune is one of the sturdiest pokemon in the game, and can use this set to stand up to most threats quite easily. Once residual damage builds, Suicune can Roar through an unprepared team, as very few unboosted attacks will be able to penetrate its massive defenses. Rest is Suicune's only form of recovery, and with Sleep Talk you can continue shuffling their team while sleeping. 

Really not much else to say. If you run a stall team, or just a team that has spikes, watch your opponent tear their hair out. Suicune is sturdier than Skarmory on both sides of the spectrum, so it would be foolish to doubt the set's usefulness.

**Stellar** · Jul 31st, 2008, 6:53:45 PM

Couldn't this just be added as an option on the sleep talk set? Considering 3/4 of the moves are the same and the EVs are the same.

I know you think it deserves its own set, but I don't think it is played all that differently.

Invective · Jul 31st, 2008, 6:55:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat RaikouLover

Although it is similar to other Suicune sets, this set deserves its own mention because it plays differently than the others.

[SET]
Name: Sleep Shuffle
Move 1: Roar
Move 2: Surf
Move 3: Rest
Move 4: Sleep Talk
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Nature: Bold

[SET COMMENTS]
 Suicune is one of the sturdiest pokemon in the game, and can use this set to stand up to most threats quite easily. Once residual damage builds, Suicune can Roar through an unprepared team, as very few unboosted attacks will be able to penetrate its massive defenses. Rest is Suicune's only form of recovery, and with Sleep Talk you can continue shuffling their team while sleeping. 

Really not much else to say. If you run a stall team, or just a team that has spikes, watch your opponent tear their hair out. Suicune is sturdier than Skarmory on both sides of the spectrum, so it would be foolish to doubt the set's usefulness.

need to end your paragraphs with the slash.

Also, just gonna go out and say that with the given EVs, pretty much no physical attack is going to OHKO this guy. I ran a more offensive set but with the same EVs and used it to counter every garchomp except band and SD. A metagross explosion did only 65ish%, and mine once survived a +6 Medicham psycho cut. now, it may have been EVed poorly, but anything surviving a +6 STAB attack is bulky in my book.

**kd24** · Jul 31st, 2008, 7:07:41 PM

Personally, I feel the set needs a much different ev spread since you no longer have calm mind to raise special defense. Until then, this is definitely just the same set with with one different attack =/

To be honest I would word this much differently as well

I would use an EV spread of maybe 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD with a Calm nature.

Suicune has extremely high defensive stats even without Calm Mind and this set tries to take full advantage of that. It also helps that Suicune only has 2 weaknesses, one of which is rarely found in standard play.

Against an unprepared team, Roar can help stack up residual damage as well as psuedo-haze out any stat up users. Rest and Sleep Talk provide much needed healing as well as a way to still abuse Roar even while alseep. Surf is a general STAB move and should be used to take out any damaged foes that have taken heavy residual damage.

Without Calm Mind, Suicune must focus on its Special Defense a bit more. With 220 Defense EVs, 36 Special Defense EVs, and a Calm nature, Suicune can take hits from both ends of the spectrum.

I don't want to ruin your design though so you don't need to take this. But for now this is just to similar to the current analysis to merit its own set.

Fabbles · Jul 31st, 2008, 7:32:16 PM

Agreeing with both Stellar and KinglerDude24 that instead of a new set Roar should just be added as another option over Ice Beam and Hidden Power Electric on the Sleep Talk set in the analysis.

Also seconding KD24's notion to add a bit of special defense. It helps so much in taking things like a Salamence Draco Meteor; not to mention it takes on common Sleepers Gengar and Yanmega much easier.

jrrrrrrr · Jul 31st, 2008, 7:32:17 PM

Yeah, even though this set works, it really isn't worthy of its own set. Now that you mention it though, I'm surprised that Roar isn't on the "Sleep Talk" set in the Suicune analysis.

Roar should just be added as an extra option on the Ice Beam / HP Electric slot. I'll add that right now and add a sentence explaining Roar's usefulness.

edit- done. waiting for a cache. Since the set posted in this peer edit is exactly the same as the "Sleep Talk" set except with Roar as the last move, I just stuck it on as an option and and added the brief sentence.

X-Trader · Jul 31st, 2008, 7:44:22 PM

You don't have a link to the analysis, which is a rule.

RaikouLover · Aug 1st, 2008, 2:03:13 AM

oops, sorry about that guys. Anyway, Jrrrrrrrr said he has it covered. It really just deserves to be an option in the standard sleep talk as mentioned. As for the EV spread KD suggested, I never found myself wanting more special defense. Yanmega is the least of Suicune's worries... it has sleep talk and Bug Buzz is like a 4HKO with Leftovers. 266 Special Defense is solid, and lowering his defense draws things like Close Combat and Outrage from ScarfHeracross and Scarfchomp closer to 2HKOs, which is extremely important. Also, a bold Suicune can take a Lucario Close Combat after a Swords Dance while you finish him with Surf. If you go to Calm, you lose that ability.

junior · Aug 1st, 2008, 3:41:14 AM

Agreeing with everyone else. This doesn't deserve its own set. 3/4 of this set corresponds with a couple of other, better ones.

I also don't like, ontop of above, that this seems to take no effort at all.

RaikouLover · Aug 1st, 2008, 4:42:27 AM

Well Junior there isn't much to say. It is a simple suggestion for the analysis. And you can't say that this set is "worse" or "better" than the others because they do play differently.

junior · Aug 1st, 2008, 4:48:15 AM

It is quite similar actually.

Take: Calm Mind Shuffler, Sleep Talk and even Crocune is quite similar (but better both defensively and offensively).

Jonathan · Aug 1st, 2008, 8:35:01 AM

I actually run Surf / Ice Beam / Roar / Sleep Talk. It's pretty effective I find for absorbing sleep, and it still makes a very good Garchomp counter, as all three moves work pretty well against it. It also catches lots of people by surprise, and it's nice to not waste a turn by selecting Rest. Worth considering in my opinion.

RaikouLover · Aug 1st, 2008, 7:05:47 PM

Quote:

Take: Calm Mind Shuffler, Sleep Talk and even Crocune is quite similar (but better both defensively and offensively

No! This set is meant to tank away while spikes are on the field and continuously shuffle through the opponents team. The Calm Mind Shuffler has to spend time sleeping, or doesnt get the ability to rest at all. The Sleep Talker doesn't shuffle, and Crocune is more of an offensive threat then a shuffler. They all play differently, therefore you can't say that Crocune is a better set. They have two entirely different uses.

Blue Kirby · Sep 14th, 2008, 10:29:41 AM

This post is for Aldaron's and Jrrrrrrr's purposes ...

Delete; this seems to redundant. Second thoughts, perhaps?

jrrrrrrr · Sep 14th, 2008, 11:09:59 AM

This thread has been taken care of.

Roar didnt deserve its own set, I put it as an option elsewhere as I mentioned in post #6

Jul 31st, 2008, 6:26:35 PM	#1
RaikouLover Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,430	DP Suicune . Although it is similar to other Suicune sets, this set deserves its own mention because it plays differently than the others. [SET] Name: Sleep Shuffle Move 1: Roar Move 2: Surf Move 3: Rest Move 4: Sleep Talk Item: Leftovers EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe Nature: Bold [SET COMMENTS] <p> Suicune is one of the sturdiest pokemon in the game, and can use this set to stand up to most threats quite easily. Once residual damage builds, Suicune can Roar through an unprepared team, as very few unboosted attacks will be able to penetrate its massive defenses. Rest is Suicune's only form of recovery, and with Sleep Talk you can continue shuffling their team while sleeping. <p> Really not much else to say. If you run a stall team, or just a team that has spikes, watch your opponent tear their hair out. Suicune is sturdier than Skarmory on both sides of the spectrum, so it would be foolish to doubt the set's usefulness.

Jul 31st, 2008, 7:07:41 PM	#4
kd24 Surprise Mother Fucker Moderator Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 4,769 HOME	Personally, I feel the set needs a much different ev spread since you no longer have calm mind to raise special defense. Until then, this is definitely just the same set with with one different attack =/ To be honest I would word this much differently as well I would use an EV spread of maybe 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD with a Calm nature. <p>Suicune has extremely high defensive stats even without Calm Mind and this set tries to take full advantage of that. It also helps that Suicune only has 2 weaknesses, one of which is rarely found in standard play.</p> <p>Against an unprepared team, Roar can help stack up residual damage as well as psuedo-haze out any stat up users. Rest and Sleep Talk provide much needed healing as well as a way to still abuse Roar even while alseep. Surf is a general STAB move and should be used to take out any damaged foes that have taken heavy residual damage.</p> <p>Without Calm Mind, Suicune must focus on its Special Defense a bit more. With 220 Defense EVs, 36 Special Defense EVs, and a Calm nature, Suicune can take hits from both ends of the spectrum.</p> I don't want to ruin your design though so you don't need to take this. But for now this is just to similar to the current analysis to merit its own set. __________________ My YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheLemondrop7

Aug 1st, 2008, 3:41:14 AM	#9
junior the ugly years of being a fool, ain't youth meant to be beautiful? Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,105 Location: Sydney, Australia	Agreeing with everyone else. This doesn't deserve its own set. 3/4 of this set corresponds with a couple of other, better ones. I also don't like, ontop of above, that this seems to take no effort at all. __________________

Aug 1st, 2008, 4:48:15 AM	#11
junior the ugly years of being a fool, ain't youth meant to be beautiful? Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,105 Location: Sydney, Australia	It is quite similar actually. Take: Calm Mind Shuffler, Sleep Talk and even Crocune is quite similar (but better both defensively and offensively). __________________

Aug 1st, 2008, 8:35:01 AM	#12
Jonathan Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 612	I actually run Surf / Ice Beam / Roar / Sleep Talk. It's pretty effective I find for absorbing sleep, and it still makes a very good Garchomp counter, as all three moves work pretty well against it. It also catches lots of people by surprise, and it's nice to not waste a turn by selecting Rest. Worth considering in my opinion. __________________ What, you don't think Lanturn can 6-0 a team of Blissey, Latias, Rotom-h, Swampert, Jirachi, and Foretress? Visit my profile for the log or check out the analysis! Diamond FC: 1376 4713 5893 My Trade Thread

Jul 31st, 2008, 6:53:45 PM	#2
Stellar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,264	Couldn't this just be added as an option on the sleep talk set? Considering 3/4 of the moves are the same and the EVs are the same. I know you think it deserves its own set, but I don't think it is played all that differently.

Jul 31st, 2008, 7:32:16 PM	#5
Fabbles Reborn The Monster Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 954 Graveyard	Agreeing with both Stellar and KinglerDude24 that instead of a new set Roar should just be added as another option over Ice Beam and Hidden Power Electric on the Sleep Talk set in the analysis. Also seconding KD24's notion to add a bit of special defense. It helps so much in taking things like a Salamence Draco Meteor; not to mention it takes on common Sleepers Gengar and Yanmega much easier.

Jul 31st, 2008, 7:32:17 PM	#6
jrrrrrrr wubwubwub Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,119 wubwubwub	Yeah, even though this set works, it really isn't worthy of its own set. Now that you mention it though, I'm surprised that Roar isn't on the "Sleep Talk" set in the Suicune analysis. Roar should just be added as an extra option on the Ice Beam / HP Electric slot. I'll add that right now and add a sentence explaining Roar's usefulness. edit- done. waiting for a cache. Since the set posted in this peer edit is exactly the same as the "Sleep Talk" set except with Roar as the last move, I just stuck it on as an option and and added the brief sentence. __________________ NIGMAN: JRRRR IS A SHIT NIGMAN: HO ESLE THINK IT?? Last edited by jrrrrrrr; Jul 31st, 2008 at 8:43:49 PM.

Jul 31st, 2008, 7:44:22 PM	#7
X-Trader Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,991	You don't have a link to the analysis, which is a rule.

Aug 1st, 2008, 2:03:13 AM	#8
RaikouLover Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,430	oops, sorry about that guys. Anyway, Jrrrrrrrr said he has it covered. It really just deserves to be an option in the standard sleep talk as mentioned. As for the EV spread KD suggested, I never found myself wanting more special defense. Yanmega is the least of Suicune's worries... it has sleep talk and Bug Buzz is like a 4HKO with Leftovers. 266 Special Defense is solid, and lowering his defense draws things like Close Combat and Outrage from ScarfHeracross and Scarfchomp closer to 2HKOs, which is extremely important. Also, a bold Suicune can take a Lucario Close Combat after a Swords Dance while you finish him with Surf. If you go to Calm, you lose that ability.

Aug 1st, 2008, 4:42:27 AM	#10
RaikouLover Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,430	Well Junior there isn't much to say. It is a simple suggestion for the analysis. And you can't say that this set is "worse" or "better" than the others because they do play differently.

Sep 14th, 2008, 10:29:41 AM	#14
Blue Kirby Keep your hands off my stack. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 2,814	This post is for Aldaron's and Jrrrrrrr's purposes ... Delete; this seems to redundant. Second thoughts, perhaps? __________________

Sep 14th, 2008, 11:09:59 AM	#15
jrrrrrrr wubwubwub Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,119 wubwubwub	This thread has been taken care of. Roar didnt deserve its own set, I put it as an option elsewhere as I mentioned in post #6 __________________ NIGMAN: JRRRR IS A SHIT NIGMAN: HO ESLE THINK IT??