CAP 4 - Part 3 (Secondary Typing Poll 1)

[Sunday]

Pure Utility Pokemon

Originally Posted by Fat Aldaron/Magmortified

Description: There is a serious lack of Gravity, Rapid Spin, Wish, non Dark weak Trick Room, OU viable Heal Bell / Aromatherapy, Encore, Memento, Non Dark weak Perish Song, Psycho Shift, Safeguard, Magic Coat, Me First, Snatch, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Tailwind and Haze Pokemon in our lovely Metagame. I don't know what type, what stat distribution or even what kind of Pokemon would effectively use all those, but I want to build a utility Pokemon for the useful yet less used utility moves. If I had to narrow the field a bit, I would emphasize Tailwind, Gravity, non Dark weak Trick Room, Rapid Spin, Wish and Encore. The normal utility moves like Reflect and Light Screen go without saying.

Primary Typing: Posion

Phew! Well after Electric came off with a 10 vote lead early on Posion made a stellar comeback! To Electric's it didn't take it lying down and went hit for hit right to the very last moment. But in the end the final score says 103-100 Posion's way, and nothing's going to change that.

Now, onto secondary typing! This will be done via bold voting. Everyone has two votes. The first vote being worth twice as much as the second. Types with the most votes over defined margin will progress to the clicky poll.

"No Secondary Type" is an option. All other types are also options.

Example:

Originally Posted by Fat Sunday

No Secondary Type
<reasoning>
Grass
<reasoning>

Thanks GT!

Poison/Normal
Neutral: Fighting, Steel, Rock, Dragon, Fire, Water, Electric, Ice, Dark, Normal, Flying
Resistances: Grass, Poison, Bug
Immunities: Ghost
Weakness: Psychic, Ground

Poison/Fire
Neutral: Electric, Ghost, Flying, Dark, Dragon, Normal, 
Resistances: Fire, Grass(4x), Ice, Bug(4x), Steel, Fighting, Poison
Immunities: None
Weakness: Rock, Water, Ground(4x), Psychic

Poison/Water
Neutral: Grass, Rock, Dragon, Normal, Dark, Flying, Ghost, 
Resistances: Fire, Water, Poison, Ice, Bug, Fighting, Steel 
Immunities: None
Weakness: Electric, Psychic, Ground

Poison/Electric
Neutral: Water, Ghost, Dark, Dragon, Normal, Fire, Rock, Ice
Resistances: Electric, Flying, Steel, Poison, Fighting, Grass, Bug
Immunities: None
Weakness: Ground(4x), Psychic

Poison/Steel
Neutral: Psychic, Fighting, Water, Electric
Resistances: Flying, Grass(4x), Bug(4x), Ghost, Ice, Dragon, Dark, Normal, Rock
Immunities: Poison
Weakness: Ground(4x), Fire

Poison/Psychic
Neutral: Psychic, Electric, Bug, Rock, Dragon, Steel, Flying, Ice, Water, Fire, Normal
Resistances: Fighting(4x), Grass, Poison
Weakness: Dark, Ghost, Ground

Poison/Ground
Neutral: Grass, Steel, Dragon, Dark, Normal, Flying, Ghost, Fire
Resistances: Fighting, Bug, Rock, Poison(4x)
Immunities: Electric
Weakness: Psychic, Ground, Water, Ice

Poison/Dragon
Neutral: Dark, Steel, Normal, Rock, Flying, Ghost
Resistances: Water, Fire, Grass(4x), Fighting, Electric, Bug, Poison
Weakness: Ice, Ground, Psychic, Dragon

Poison/Fighting
Neutral: Fire, Water, Ice, Normal, Electric, Ghost, Steel, Dragon
Resistances: Grass, Bug(4x), Fighting, Dark, Rock, Poison
Weakness: Psychic(4x), Ground, Flying

Poison/Dark
Neutral: Normal, Fire, Water, Ice, Bug, Fighting, Rock, Dragon, Steel, Flying, Electric
Resistance: Dark, Ghost, Grass, Poison
Immunities: Psychic
Weakness: Ground

Poison/Flying
Neutral: Water, Dark, Dragon, Steel, Flying, Normal, Ghost, Fire
Resistance: Grass(4x), Bug(4x), Fighting(4x), Poison
Immunities: Ground
Weakness: Electric, Ice, Psychic, Rock

Poison/Bug
Neutral: Electric, Ice, Dark, Dragon, Normal, Water, Steel, Ghost, Ground.
Resistance: Grass(4x), Fighting(4x), Bug, Poison
Weakness: Fire, Flying, Psychic, Rock

Poison/Grass
Neutral: Normal, Ground, Rock, Poison, Bug, Dark, Dragon, Steel, Ghost
Resistance: Grass(4x), Electric, Fighting, Water
Weakness: Fire, Ice, Psychic, Flying

Poison/Rock
Neutral: Grass, Fighting, Dark, Dragon, Rock, Ghost, Ice, Electric
Resistance: Poison(4x), Normal, Bug, Flying, Fire
Weakness: Water, Ground(4x), Psychic, Steel

Poison/Ghost
Neutral: Fire, Water, Electric, Ice, Dragon, Steel, Rock, Flying
Resistances: Poison(4), Bug(4x), Grass
Immunities: Normal, Fighting
Weakness: Ground, Psychic, Ghost, Dark

Poison/Ice
Neutral: Water, Electric, Dragon, Dark, Flying, Fighting, Normal, Ghost
Resistance: Ice, Poison, Grass, Bug
Weakness: Steel, Ground, Psychic, Rock, Fire

[Gothic Togekiss]

I already made a list of Poison + TypeA , Sunday.

Edit: Glad to be a service to you.

[Atlas]

psychic
to make most utility moves viable and cause its a cool typing

flying
i just think the art for this would be fantastic

[Sunday]

Originally Posted by Fat Gothic Togekiss

I already made a list of that, Sunday.

Thank god please do share.

EDIT: Thanks. :)

[PirateDelux]

psychic
3 weaknesses. Ground,Dark,Ghost.
4x Fighting Resist.
Can hit Rev with SE STAB psychic move.

Electric
Computer virus Idea created on Doug's server just sounded so awesome.

[Asura]

I say, secondary type should be Fire. I mean, won't that be FRICKIN' AWESOME?
I mean seriously. A toxic-Fire like being that can shoot fire out of its mouth AND also shoot poison needles from their ears. THAT'S CALLED BEAST.

[sanjay120]

Atlas, not to be insulting or anything but that's the kind of reasoning I would expect from a ten year old fanboy from Serebii. The only thing even remotely competitive from your post is that you would like Psychic to make things like Trick Room etc. make sense flavor wise.

EDIT: Sorry if I'm mini modding Sunday I just get mad when I lose a poll to posts like this.

1. Electric because Thunder Wave and the screens are good support moves. We could easily fit Gravity and Trick Room on flavor wise so that's not an issue. Flying is a great type to be resistant to in our CAP server, and resisting one half of Boltbeam (and the half that usually has more BP as most electrics use HP Ice) is good too. Sure it has a 4x EQ weak but that could help balance it. Many good Pokemon have 4x weaks, and this isn't really a wall, it's a utility. Remember, Deoxys-S can be played as utility, and it doesn't have the best defenses/typing either. Electric/Poison would let this Pokemon have useful resists without a terrible STAB. If it wanted to stop a Gyarados sweep, or scare Skarmory away, it could.

2. Fighting because of the useful Bug (4x), Dark, Rock, and Fighting resists that come with it and Poison. Fighting has been a good utility type for Hitmontop and Hariyama and even if it is Flying weak, I guess that can be a check. You're going to be avoiding Psychics anyways. My only problem is fitting Gravity and Trick Room on, but I'm sure we can think of something.

[jagged_angel]

Originally Posted by Fat PirateDelux

psychic
3 weaknesses. Ground,Dark,Ghost.
4x Fighting Resist.
Can hit Rev with SE STAB psychic move.

but not before Rev Shadow Sneaks it to hell.

[chaos 9]

I vote for steel.
Poison steel would be an interesting typing. The only thing would be the crippling ground weak but that could be fixed with ability (Cough levitate cough) Resistance to stealth rock and good resitances would make a good pokemon overall.

[EspeonA]

Electric
Well, considering the fact that I chose Electric for my primary type, it's no surprise that I would choose it for my secondary type as well. Electric & Poison seems to be an interesting matchup, and I wonder how the sprites will turn out! Also, Electric Pokémon have fairly good Speed, which is important for Utility Pokémon.

Steel
A Steel-type might be good for a Utility Pokémon, because when paired with the Poison-type, the resistances add up to a whopping nine resistances! Of course, there are two weaknesses, with Ground by 400% and Fire by 200%. It's similar to the Electric-type, and Ground-type moves (such as Earthquake) can be seen from a mile away.

[Elevator Music]

Poison
- Resists: Grass, Fighting, Bug, Poison
- Weaknesses: Ground, Psychic
- Immunities: Toxic although that doesn't really count.

That was for my own personal benefit, it helps me to get it all down.

I would prefer something that gave us a nice resistance spread to common attacks (ie: Rock/Ground/Ice, although I realize doing all is impossible). I would also prefer it to not be weak to Flying, but I can live with it being Flying weak.

Plausible types to match it with are the following.

Bug, Flying, Ground, Dark, Psychic (imo)

Posion/Bug- Is neutral to Ground, but weak to Rock and Flying. It would be intersting for the 4x Fighting and 4x Bug resistance

Poison/Flying- Crobat??? Has a nice resistance spread but sadly is weak to Rock and Ice (And Electric for that matter). EQ immunity is nice for utility.

Poison/Ground- Not bad as far as resistances go, but not great. Rock resistance is nice, but not too helpful as it is still Ground weak (similar to being Ice resistant yet being weak to Electric).

Posion/Dark- Psychic immunity is nice, although Drapion fits this role well enough. But I'm a sucker for a Dark resistance.

Posion/Psychic- An interesting type combo both flavor-wise and in terms of usefulness. It's Dark and Ground weak, gains neutrality against Psychic (although this is taken back by being Bug neutral again). A nice 4x Fighting immunity as well.

I'll refrain from voting until I see arguments for each type other than my own short diagnoses. Maybe I missed a good combo that I might like (that's doubtful, I'm still not fond of another Poison utility).

[Aldaron*]

G_T, I think Poison / Bug is neutral to Ground, and you have it as a weakness.

[flygon493]

1st Choice: Steel
Reasoning: This would be the first poison/steel type, which is a + for creativity. It has a rather large pool of resistances, with only two weaknesses(though, one is a 4x weakness, but it is easily seen a mile away and countered by the plethora of ground resists/immunes), which is very good for a defensive pokemon. It is also resistant to Stealth Rock, which is a very huge plus for a pokemon that needs to come in continually. That being said, Steel is IMO the best secondary typing for this pokemon. BTW, Steel can also go along with the computer virus idea spawned in the previous poll.

2nd Choice: Dark
Reasons: Even though a Poison/Dark type has been done in the past, both of them are in UU, and are seen very rarely. Poison/Dark offers a single weakness to ground, which again is predictable and simple to counter. It has few resistances, but an important immunity to Psychic, which is seen more often on the CAP server to deal with Revenankh. Large defensive stats and a recovery move (both of which are extremely likely and almost guaranteed on this pokemon) make up for not having as many resistances. Also, if we do give this thing Rapid Spin (which is also likely seeing as it is a utility pokemon), it will make ghosts think twice about switching in.

[latinoheat]

why are people voting for steel when it takes away the two reasons poison actually won - a fighting resistance and toxic spike absorber.

[sanjay120]

Could a Poison/Steel absorb Toxic Spikes? That's a great question. We'd have to seriousy hack the game to find out.

[Gothic Togekiss]

Originally Posted by Fat Aldaron

G_T, I think Poison / Bug is neutral to Ground, and you have it as a weakness.

I knew somewhere within that mass of text there was an error :B. I was doing other things while typing out the list, so yeah...didn't see it until now.

Originally Posted by Fat latinoheat

why are people voting for steel when it takes away the two reasons poison actually won -toxic spike absorber.

I somewhat think the coding within Shoddy would recognize it as a part-poison and allow it to absorber Toxic Spike.

[Diploman]

The only way to resist Ground/Ice/Rock with a poison typing would probably be Poison/Steel with Levitate.


I'd vote for Poison/Bug. Flying isn't a really common attacking type, while Rock and Fire are your main worries. The 4x resists are one of the reasons I chose this too.

Poison/Electric is my 2nd choice. 2 weaknesses, against Ground (4x) and Psychic (2x) isn't too bad. The typing gives resists to a few types including:

Electric
Steel
Poison
Fighting
Flying
Grass
Bug

A total of 7 resists is more than enough to make up for the 2 weaknesses.

[Plus]

Electric- I really wanted electric to win, but a Poison/Electric would be nice. It'd still have the Toxic Spike Absorbing and the resistances that a normal poison would have, but would get a ground weakness, which could easily be fixed. It's a utility pokemon, and therefore should get Magnet Rise, right?

Ground-It still has a nice Toxic Spike absorption and would fit will with the Spikes oriented moves, and would also allow it to use moves such as EQ if the utility pokemon gets any offensive moves. Things like Forretress that make great utility pokemon pack a good punch with one move, so I also think ground is a great choice.

[latinoheat]

i was under the impression steel would stop it absorbing spikes.

[Aldaron*]

Dragon

Well, this is neutral to Flying and Rock, and I know last poll I said I would prefer to keep Dragon as the offensive CaP...but ahh what the hell. Look at those resists...Water, Fightng, Fire, Electric. Only Giratina and Lati@s boast those four resists, and none are currently viable for OU. I'd like for our utlity guy to have some resists in order to switch in more effectively.

Flying


It would be cool to have a Pokemon that can take on all the previous CaPs (Syclant on the switch), and adding a Revenankh counter is never a bad thing. Has awesome resists and immunities, and won't be absorbing Toxic Spikes, which is kind of what I wanted anyway.

[Frosty]

Poison, uh? Oh well, I guess you can't win everything.

For the second typing, my first choice is Dark

The hell with Skuntank and Drapion (although the existance of Drapion was the reason why I was against poison typing), the Dark + Poison combination nets 3 things that are quite important on this specific pokemon. First of all it is resistant to Dark, which is the typing that causes more trouble against the common trick room users. Also, it resists ghost attacks and can hit them from SE damage. Finally, it has only one single weakness, which several pokemons are immune to, making defensive pokemon combination much more viable. Yeah, yeah, I am aware that Drapion can use moves like knock off, toxic spikes and whirlwind and has the battle armor ability that makes it live longer, but it's use is restricted mostly to UU, and the other utility moves this pokemon will have will surely make the difference.

My second choice is Dragon

I admit that the 2x weakness to ice (which is probably the most or one of the most common offensive STABs in the game) and dragon isn't overly attractive, but I suppose that is a price you will have to pay for the nice resists coupled with the lack of a x4 weakness to ground. Steel was previously my second choice, until I remembered that Gravity is one of the utility moves this pokemon will possibly have, and Gravity on a x4 weak to ground pokemon is pretty much suicide. So I prefered to choose another type that packs a lot of resistances.

meh.

[Elevator Music]

Why Electric/Poison is a totally uncool idea

(Quiet X-Act, unless you can convince me it is)

I know many of you will be inclined to make a Posion/Electric pokemon due to Electric being just as popular for the pokemon and many people still wanting an Electric pokemon. I am going to attempt to convince you why I feel this is a completely horrid idea.

Let's take a look at exactly what the resistance spread for Poison/Electric is:

Immunities: The Toxic immunity is one I guess
Resistances: Bug, Electric, Fighting, Flying, Grass, Poison, Steel
Weaknesses: Ground (4x), Psychic

Yes, a hefty load of resistances. However, I would like to point out the following. Most of these restances are to uncommon attacks in general. I would say the only really useful ones are to Fighting, Bug, and arguably Flying (possibly Electric as well, but it's relatively uncommon on anything not Electric type). Furthermore, Poison/Steel would still give us a better Bug and Grass resist, a better Poison resist (immunity actually), neutrality to Psychic, a resistance to Dark, Ghost, Rock, Normal, Ice, while keeping the Flying resistance at the cost of making Fire SE instead of Psychic and making Fighting neutral as opposed to all those other types. And they both share the darn 4x Ground weak, so don't make an argument against that. (By the way, I don't really want Poison/Steel, but Poison/Elec doesn't bring much to the table so to speak).

And ahh yes, the 4x Ground weak. I'm opposed to having this, and I'm sure you guys all hate it to. While it is shown that pokemon are still perfectly usable with this (hello Heatran), why do that to a support pokemon (which Tran clearly isn't)?

So let's all give it Levitate! ...No.
Wait, no? Yes, no. Do you see this thing plausibly getting Levitate? Do batteries float? Do squids float? Didn't think so. Even if we do get artwork that has this thing plausibly levitating, I would still be against it just for how fanboyish the idea is. I honestly feel doing so would give the CAP project a bad name, however you look at it. And not to mention doing so wouldn't allow you to soak up Toxic Spikes, which was the main intention of using Poison (I think).

How about Magnet Rise then. Yes, I suppose we could, but even then I wouldn't use it. This pokemon will be strapped for moveslots as is, so why make it forced to run Magnet Rise? It already will most likely NEED a recovery move, so now we're shafting it in what it can do. Not a very good idea to me.

So yes, I feel the need to say that Poison/Electric is not as good as we could be doing. Thanks for reading, have a nice day/night.

[moi]

Dark

Dark would allow for only one weakness, Ground which is quite easy to see coming. An immunity to the ever common Psychic on the CaP server, and access to a very nice utility move, Knock Off (hopefully), or even Snatch (also Dark type)

Electric
This would allow for the standard support such as Thunder Wave and the Screens, but in itself is good typing with only two weaknesses. The large Ground weak can again be dealt with by the multiple immunities.

[sanjay120]

Wow, I was expecting something profound, not '4x ground weak'.

Did you miss the part where people use Swampert defensively, Heatran defensively (yeah people wall with Heatran, pretty good with its stats and WoW)? Hell, did you miss the part where people use Blissey defensively, because I don't remember Normal having a lot of resists. This Pokemon does not need resists. They're helpful and all but stats and movepool get a lot of things far, sometimes even despite typing.

Poison/Steel, seriously, OU does NOT need another Steel utility. Not. Steel actually doesn't have a lot of utility options by itself, Jirachi and Bronzong only really get them because of their Psychic typing (and Jiri's legendary status). I'd love to see someone come up with a reason a Poison/Steel type could use something like Gravity or Trick Room. Electric, even Psychic, they can do this easily. Plus, they keep the Fight resist.

[Kietharr]

Steel, because it provides a metric fuckton of resistances while providing an x4 weakness, which is nice as a balancing factor. Not every pokemon done in CAP has to be some sort of amazing monster. Magnet Rise is very much a possibility even without electric typing, Probopass has magnet rise and he's rock/steel.

Dragon, because the art would be quite unique.