UU is even more centralised than OU is

[Bologo]

Originally Posted by Fat iruchii

Seriously, Evil Hamster? I UU ladder pretty much everyday and I've only seen a couple Ampharos.

Anyway, yeah, it doesn't surprise me either. I jump in joy everytime I see a Bibarel or Illumise being us- wait, only I use Bibarel and Illumise.

You are wrong. I use both Bibarel and Illumise on my new UU team, heh so you'd jump in joy to see my team too. I'm using Illumise to test her out, but still, she's pretty good. I might actually do a peer edit on her soon to get more people to use her. :]

To the person who didn't know if Bibarel's abilities are implimented - Yes, yes they are. Just that people use him a lot more in OU than they do in UU. I personally see Unaware as the superior ability, because it can be your only saving grace against things such as a Nasty Plotted Ninetales (the bulky EV spread I use right now takes <50% from Energy Ball). Saving yourself against a Cursing Miltank is also a big plus, since those things can run over a team if they get too many Curses up. Simple is only really good with Charge Beam, Amnesia, or BP-support, but Unaware can possibly save your team from what would be an inevitable loss.

I suspect that UU is going to be even more centralized for August though, to be honest. I started playing the UU ladder for the first time yesterday, and while the new walls were really easy to beat with Tauntarel on my team, Aerodactyl was a big pain, being used even more than Steelix. If you don't have a Rock resist on your team, it's really hard to take down unless you have a Choice Scarf user.

[Cynthia]

Steelix usage is bound to drop next month due to the addition of Weezing. Its typing is clearly superior, ground immunity instead of weakness, fighting resist instead of weakness and no water weak.

I predict that the UU metagame is going to centralize around Aerodactyl. It's just so fast and pretty strong that it must be accounted for so expect a rise in Gastrodon/Quagsire/Sandslash usage.

Clefable is now worse than ever now that no one can use fighting types anymore, as Weezing walls them all incredibly well.

[cim]

Originally Posted by Fat Cynthia

Steelix usage is bound to drop next month due to the addition of Weezing. Its typing is clearly superior, ground immunity instead of weakness, fighting resist instead of weakness and no water weak.

That's arguable, not to mention they don't serve the same purpose. Steelix resists most everything that's not water fire ground or fighting, has 200 base Defense, Stealth Rock, and STAB Earthquake. Weezing has a Fighting resistance and not many other useful ones, the worst STAB in the game, and Will-o-wisp. It's not a clear cut "weezing is better" like you're implying.

I predict that the UU metagane is going to centralize around Aerodactyl. It's just so fast and pretty strong that it must be accounted for so expect a rise in Gastrodon/Quagsire/Sandslash usage.

I think so too! Though he's not terribly strong, I predict Gastrodon will be even more hideously "OU" now.

Clefable is now worse than ever now that no one can use fighting types anymore, as Weezing walls them all incredibly well.

Assuming they only carried, you know, Fighting attacks and no others. The odd Double Edge on say Hitmonlee (oh hi reckless) will 2HKO Weezing, right?

Clefable is really annoying. Can't we accidentally ban her?

[Bologo]

Originally Posted by Fat Cynthia

Steelix usage is bound to drop next month due to the addition of Weezing. Its typing is clearly superior, ground immunity instead of weakness, fighting resist instead of weakness and no water weak.

I found Weezing to be very easy to beat. It really can't take special attacks well at all, because unlike Steelix, who can afford to have no Defense EVs, and just throw them all in HP and Special Defense, Weezing needs max HP, and a lot of the times, max Defense to work well. This means that his Special Defense is pretty awful, and he takes a lot from even neutral special attacks, while resisting so few of the mostly special typings. Steelix, on the other hand, resists a ton of them, and if he has max HP and max Special Defense, even special attackers may have problems against him.

That, and like Chris said, they work two completely different roles, though they both happen to have good physical Defense. Steelix sets up SR and phazes stuff out. Weezing statuses stuff, stalls better due to Pain Split, etc. I'd say that Weezing might be high, but Steelix isn't going to drop much, if at all. If anything, they'll be used a lot together on the same team, meaning that they'll have usages incredibly close together.

[Salem1]

If anything, they'll be used a lot together on the same team, meaning that they'll have usages incredibly close together.

I agree. The reasoning will probably be: Why the hell would I be gay when I can be a transsexual bisexual prostitue and enjoy both sides instead?''

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

To the person who didn't know if Bibarel's abilities are implimented - Yes, yes they are.

Thanks for that, it was just that I never saw any confirmation and I've never gotten around to testing it myself.

Clefable is really annoying. Can't we accidentally ban her?

Even though that is a flimsy argument by itself, I have to say I agree with you on the point of banning Clefable. Although I don't have the time right now to formulate a complete argument for its banishment to BL, it should be mentioned that the reasons go far deeper than its ability to stall. It is more to do with the whole package that Clefable offers; to simultaneously (not talking about specific sets here) lack a 100% counter, wall a huge fraction of the tier, and force the use of specific setups just to stand a chance of taking her down, which you're not guaranteed to pull off even if you do carry. All in all I believe the overall power of UU as it stands is not ideally equipped to deal with Clefable, something I cannot say for anything else at the moment, but that's just my opinion.

I will admit though that Clefable does seem to be the one Pokemon that makes all the current stall possible, so I can see why most of the arguments are centred around that fact.

I found Weezing to be very easy to beat.

Seconded, but I use offensive Camerupt, who is extremely thankful for the easy switch-ins, therefore my view may be somewhat biased.

[Cynthia]

Clefable is now worse than ever now that no one can use fighting types anymore, as Weezing walls them all incredibly well.

Assuming they only carried, you know, Fighting attacks and no others. The odd Double Edge on say Hitmonlee (oh hi reckless) will 2HKO Weezing, right

Reckless Double-edge Hitmonlee is incredibly uncommon, but even then an Adamant CB Hitmonlee(also uncommon), does only 39-46% to max/max Weezing. So I think it's pretty safe to say that Weezing can wall pretty much any fighter.

And yes, Weezing isn't exactly the same as Steelix, but obviously they are both physical walls whose goal is mainly to stop the same Pokemon, which is pretty damn close in my book. Steelix does do better against some threats like Swellow, but Weezing's typing gives it the advantage more often than not. Using both is probably overkill, but i guess on stall teams it can work.

[Brawley]

Im not surprised the most competitive UU teams all have automatic slots for: , Weezing, Steelix, Miltank/Clefable.
:[

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Reckless Double-edge Hitmonlee is incredibly uncommon, but even then an Adamant CB Hitmonlee(also uncommon), does only 39-46% to max/max Weezing.

Unfortunately you forgot to multiply by 1.2 for Reckless, so the real damage output is 46.4-54.79%, which is an almost guaranteed 2HKO factoring in Stealth Rock.

Even so, I mentioned something similar regarding Claydol a long while back, and Forsety made a good point in retort. Forcing Hitmonlee to sacrifice paralysis immunity, speed and have even lower survivability means that Claydol and Weezing are already doing their job at countering it.

Im not surprised the most competitive OU teams all have automatic slots for: , Weezing, Steelix, Miltank/Clefable.

You do mean UU right?

[Cynthia]

I did put in Reckless as the ability, but perhaps metalkid's didn't factor it in correctly. However, Adamant CB Reckless Hitmonlee using Double Edge is a very rare case, and it does give up a lot to do so as you mentioned.

[Green Mage]

This doesn't surprise me at all.

I don't think that UU is completely solidified as a tier yet. There is some ridiculously overpowered shit that's still legal; most notably steelix, and also stuff like Ninetales and Rotom. I bet as time goes on, more promotions to BL will take place and the tier will be more diversified.

[Deck Knight]

Way back when in the old BL/UU topic I said Steelix would outclass Aggron entirely.

Apparently Steelix outclasses a whole heck of a lot of everything else >_>.

I think I warned you guys about this lol.

Btw. when I checked the OLD OLD topics I got a wave of nostalgia.

[1059860]

UU is always centralized over Clefable, Lantern, Shuckle and Ninetales. I've seen them more overused than anything else.

Other common ones are Scyther, Meganium and Blastoise.

[the_artic_one]

Originally Posted by Fat 1059860

UU is always centralized over Clefable, Lantern, Shuckle and Ninetales. I've seen them more overused than anything else.

Other common ones are Scyther, Meganium and Blastoise.

Except that Shuckle isn't even in the top 75%.

[Chou Toshio]

again, not surprised bla bla bla. we have a lot of new players in UU now too, so there's going to be a period when they are especially dedicated to the standard UU pokes.

[david stone]

I don't understand the "things will decentralize now" argument. Tiers tend to centralize over time, not the reverse, because the more time goes on, the more people learn what truly works and what is just hype, thus slowly cementing standards.

[Chimera]

I'm agreeing with Obi on this. Barring maybe a half dozen pokemon that would emerge to the higher use levels to counter a few major specific threats at best, that list will only shrink. Arguing the reverse can't help but sound like what I pointed out about some UU players a while back: that they cite UU as a more diverse, interesting environment than OU when that really isn't true.

[Slobroking]

Originally Posted by Fat Chimera

I'm agreeing with Obi on this. Barring maybe a half dozen pokemon that would emerge to the higher use levels to counter a few major specific threats at best, that list will only shrink. Arguing the reverse can't help but sound like what I pointed out about some UU players a while back: that they cite UU as a more diverse, interesting environment than OU when that really isn't true.

Could you give me a quote of an UU player saying that? =/ Also ''UU as a more interesting environment than OU when that really isn't true.'' that's YOUR opinion, don't pass it off as a fact.

[Chou Toshio]

I don't think any of the UU players play because "UU is more diverse," it's always just been "to use different pokemon from standards" :/

But yeah, no matter what the game, people are only going to figure out what works-- but if you have more pokemon "that work," sometimes in time the players will start figuring out how to use each pokemon better as well.

[the_artic_one]

Originally Posted by Fat Slobroking

Could you give me a quote of an UU player saying that? =/ Also ''UU as a more interesting environment than OU when that really isn't true.'' that's YOUR opinion, don't pass it off as a fact.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpos...9&postcount=18
People say it, just not very smart people and not many people around here.

[squeakyreaper]

Half of my team fits on that list, so I'm half centralized. Pbth. I see way too many Poliwraths, Leafeons and Absols though. One is guaranteed to show up every other match atleast.

[Aint No Sunshine]

I'm not all that surprised by UU. There are a lot of options, yes. The UU tier has a huge number of Pokemon. But as umbarsc said, most people just stick to the tried and true UUs. Okay, I'm going to go use Whiscash! Actually, screw that. I'll just take Quagsire. Too much outclassing.

[Salem1]

Originally Posted by Fat squeakyreaper

Half of my team fits on that list, so I'm half centralized. Pbth. I see way too many Poliwraths, Leafeons and Absols though. One is guaranteed to show up every other match atleast.

Poliwrath and Leafeon I can understand, but Absol? I'm the only guy I know of that uses it frequently O_o

[Pocket]

All I know is that Clefable, Rotom, and Steelix were everywhere when I battled the week of the UU tour.

It's mostly centralized I think, because there are less viable Tanks to counter the hard-hitting Sweepers that outnumbers them. Toxicroak, Leafeon, Altaria, Nasty Plot Ninetales, Rain Dance Teams, the Hitmons, Swellow; those are the few sweepers that have specific counters, some even requiring two Pokemon to do so. I personally found it hard to cover these physical threats, and ended up resorting the standard UU monsters, like Ninetales, Poliwrath, and Rotom. When you make an UU team, you literally have to sacrifice offense for defense or vice versa, moreso than Ubers or Standard imo.

I think the most centralizing UU Pokemon of all is Clefable. People use Clefable because of its priceless ability to take no residual damage from the common SR, Wisps, and PSN, allowing it to be a great status absorber without inflicting the slightest side effects. It is so damn hard to take down when your team utilizes residual damages to compensate for lack of offense (sacrificed for coverage), which ends up people using Hitmontop and BB Poliwrath that can directly damage Clefable with SE. I'd say it's an anti-metagame Pokemon.

Rotom is also another centralizing Pokemon, because it enforces the indirect damaging tactics utilized in UU via preventing the elimination of SR and burning Pokemon. Not only that, it has one of the most useful resistances! Ground, Flying, Normal, Fighting, Steel Immunities means that it can particularly counter several forms of physical Pokemon with any combination of these types. It is one hard monster to bring down. Rotom is possibly one of the safest counters to switch into against the Hitmons and the only non-Rock / Steel that can counter Swellow if need be.

The addition of Weezing, Venusaur, and Miltank is a welcome, however, bringing more defensive options to the table. Especially Weezing provides a one-package counter to Toxicroak; I don't think any Pokemon was able to do that without risking getting killed by an unsuspected EQ, Poison Jab, or Stone Edge.

[umbarsc]

Now I see why we waited until we got usage statistics to start creating NU.

"Blastoise and Toxicroak are everywhere, man, they're nearly on every other team."
"What the hell are you talking about I've only seen about one or two"