Stall Team

[Little Green Yoda]

Thanks for posting, Obi. Especially the newer parts that outlined your thinking in the team's construction.

I'm curious to see how you will re-vamp it in light of the Platinum additions. Rampant TrickScarf seems to be a major obstacle (unless you somehow manage to utilize a Sticky Hold user effectively in a stall team lol).

[cim]

Originally Posted by Fat skiddle

Ah, this old classic again. This is a very nice team, and has inspired me to attempt my own stall team. hopefully it will not be at all similar to yours, but Tentacruel is pretty much a given :/

I tried to build a stall team back on Suspect (my most successful team btw). Every single little revision I made turned it more and more into Obi's stall team until I had Obi's team with literally 2 differences (Leech Seed over U-Turn on Celebi and CM Jirachi over Skarmory). I don't know if you can get much better than this.

This is also why I claim to be so familiar with the team.

[twash]

Obi I would just like to say this was a fantastic read, especially the parts about how you actually built this team. I personally think it would show beginners a way of building a stall team (I too believe this should be stickied!).

I'll give this a proper "rate" later I guess, currently doing other stuff. I'll just edit it in here :]

[Cerulean21]

This should definely be stickied. However, looking at your team, I see some issues with SD Bullet Punch Scizor (especially if it has Roost) once Hippowdon is down. Lucario might get tricky as well, though Spiritomb handles that one nicely.

I updated a similar Stall Team to Platinum and because I didn't have a spot for Zapdos I came up with Replacing Dusknoir with one of the Rotom Forms. RestTalk Versions that are very defensively EVed make a great switch in to Scizor, especially if they carry Overheat (or in my case HP [Fire]). Rotom resists Bullet Punch and X-Scissor/U-Turn and is immune to Superpower/BB. Rotom also makes an excellent switch in on SD Lucario that runs Ice Punch over Crunch, as it's immune to Extremespeed and CC and can somewhat counter Azelf (tho not nearly as good as Spiritomb, however, Azelf will most likely not get past the Blissey/Rotom combo). Additionally Rotom laughs at any Bronzong and can wear it down with a Fire move or either STAB attack.However, if you give up Spiritomb, you'll never get past RestTalk Rotom, Blissey walls it but will not beat it and if it carries both STAB moves, all the others will either fall (Celebi to Shadow Ball, Taddle and Skarm to Thunderbolt) or be completely walled (if you run Roar > Ice Fang on Hippo), so if you switch to Rotom, make sure to make a small investment in speed in order to outrun and Shadow Ball them before they can do the same to you.

Otherwise, still a great team. You're my inspiration

DDTar might also give you issues seeing how Aqua Tail is a 2HKO on Hippo.

[twash]

Originally Posted by Fat Cerulean21

This should definely be stickied. However, looking at your team, I see some issues with SD Bullet Punch Scizor (especially if it has Roost) once Hippowdon is down.

Skarmory can just Whirlwind until it is the last Pokémon.

In this case it would be probably be running Swords Dance / Bullet Punch / Roost / X-Scissor or Brick Break. It can only really be the last Pokémon, and Celebi outspeeds any Adamant versions so can Perish Song for the victory. The only way Scizor would possibly win is if it got 3 Swords Dances, which would OHKO Celebi with Bullet Punch [provided Life Orb]. Generally Obi should be fine provided he doesn't let Scizor get to +6, which shouldn't be too hard. Plus, if Obi straight away brings in Tentacruel straight away the opponent must either KO it or lose its Life Orb, and if it KOs that means Celebi can come in safely as Scizor won't have +6, if its Life Orb is gone it will no longer OHKO Celebi with Bullet Punch, even with +6, allowing Obi to get off that fatal Perish Song.

[Taylor]

Fine, when everyone has applauded you for it (as much as I dislike the idea), we could lock it and use it as a frame of reference. An example, if you will, of what all members should aim for in their own RMTs; as an added bonus, you won't have to answer any questions as this thread will be easy to find.

[Shur.tugal]

Obi, I forgot to mention this in my last post but how does this team handle Levitate Bronzong? He is immune to Toxic Spikes and Spikes, resists Stealth Rock and the only fire move on your team is on Blissey, and probably 98% of Blisseys run Flamethrower in their set so it is highly unlikely that they will stay in.

[LuistheNinja]

OMFG I love Stall Teams and yours is one of the bst I've seen.
Just some few recommendatiosn that you could take in mind.
- Leech Seed on Celebi (major pain in the ass)
- Gow with roar on Hipo
- AWESOME Bliss! maybe get rid of Protect for aromatherapy?
- Drill Peck over Brave Bird on Skarmory.
- And yes, go with knoc off it will be a real pain to loose the leftovers recovery.
Great team!

[Dragon-Shinobi]

Originally Posted by Fat LuistheNinja

OMFG I love Stall Teams and yours is one of the bst I've seen.
Just some few recommendatiosn that you could take in mind.
- Leech Seed on Celebi (major pain in the ass)
- Gow with roar on Hipo
- AWESOME Bliss! maybe get rid of Protect for aromatherapy?
- Drill Peck over Brave Bird on Skarmory.
- And yes, go with knoc off it will be a real pain to loose the leftovers recovery.
Great team!

Aromatherapy + Wish is illegal (unless there's some platinum change) and protect ensures that wish heals, scouts attacks, and adds an extra turn of poison. Can't really be replaced =/.
And, Brave Bird is used over Drill Peck so that skarm can pack a bit more of a punch.

[david stone]

I was thinking about locking this thread, because the team is pretty much "done" as far as this revision goes, but then I thought about it some more... People would just PM me instead of posting here. Obviously if the people who actually mod this forum feel otherwise, I'd be OK with whatever they do.

Originally Posted by Fat Shur.tugal

Obi, I forgot to mention this in my last post but how does this team handle Levitate Bronzong? He is immune to Toxic Spikes and Spikes, resists Stealth Rock and the only fire move on your team is on Blissey, and probably 98% of Blisseys run Flamethrower in their set so it is highly unlikely that they will stay in.

What does Bronzong do back? I just use it to set up Stealth Rock, Spikes, and (if it doesn't have Earthquake / Psychic) Toxic Spikes. Then I either hit it with Flamethrower or PP stall it.



And please don't edit your rate in, just make a new post. If you edit it, I won't know you posted, and if you post saying you edited it in, why not just use that post to post what you want to say?

[13blue101]

Wow. The best RMT thread I have ever seen. If I need a reference for a Stall Team, this thread is my top choice. The team is solid all around but it would really be nice for a Platinum update. DD LO Mence pretty much owns this team unless you predict it everytime. Really good job on this Obi. Kudos to you ^_^

[david stone]

I don't really know how DD LO Salamence is any worse than SD Garchomp was. It's hit 2x by SR instead of 1/2, isn't better than immune to SS, and only boosts its attack +1 instead of +2. It also doesn't get STAB Earthquake to not have to lock itself into Outrage. The Speed doesn't matter, so I must be missing something big. I guess the ability to OHKO Skarmory with Fire Blast with some SpA might be a bit more dangerous, but other than that, it seems weaker than Garchomp was in every way vs. this team.

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Here's a question for you, Obi:

How would YOU play against this team?

Granted, this exact team would probably not be used ever again, but this is a good framework for Stall teams in general and there's a real possibility of facing a team with 3 or 4 of these Pokemon. How would you best deal with these threats?

I'm also asking because I'm just plain curious. I played against you a long time ago with this team (or at least something VERY close with these Pokemon; I'm not sure), but I don't remember exactly how that battle played out, though I do recall seeing SD Swift Swim Kabutops and letting that become an issue... as far as I remember. I probably could've played better had I had more experience with the team...

[Sephiroth32194]

This should definitely be stickied, and good, it's a 5 star thread.

This team is so annoying - if I faced it on my DS, I would throw my DS at the wall in frustration. I think Hippowdon should stick with Ice Fang, Roar isn't too necessary for this metagame, and you might need to deal with Salamence at some times.

[Cerulean21]

Man, Obi... Have you been on Shoddy today? Thanks to this thread, Stall teams are actually flooding the place. Out of 20 battles, at least 15 were Stall teams that looked almost exactly like yours. (and I use a Stall team meself, though quite a bit longer than a few days ^^. Anyway, just wanted to inform you about the consequences of your post....

[Bourbon]

I too started using a stall team, with a Rotom-H lead (restalker of course) a Wish Bliss with ST and Flamethrower (toxic wasnt cutting it) a Swampert, a Skarmory, a Tangrowth, and Tentacruel.

The Swampert is there because I needed a good roar user, and I liked how Swampert made for a good Metagross counter with his Steel resistance. For this reason, I used him over Hippowdon. That, and I didn't want Sandstorm running because my team needs leftovers worse than my opponent does.

Tangrowth resists EQ better than anything, and helps with Gyarados. He also as Knock Off to remove my opponent's leftovers, and Leech Seed to wear down sturdier opponents. He also baits Heatran better than anything on my team (save skarm) and can Earthquake it on the switch-in, killing it.

Rotom-H is better in this metagame because he resists all of Scizor's standard attacks, so I chose him. Unlike Spiritomb, he can also take on Metagross for me. I put him in lead because he is sturdy and immune to Explosion, perfect for killing beating Suicide leads. Most teams don't have a rapid spin blocker, so Tentacruel can usually spin the rocks away anyways.

I put Toxic AND Toxic Spikes on my Tentacruel, so that I can poison Rotom switch-ins, and Gyarados switch-ins. Rapid Spin, Surf, blah blah blah.

Blissey is pretty standard, but I put in 24 HP EVs for optimal leftovers recovery, and only put in 56 SpA EVs. Then I put Seismic Toss over Toxic, just for some decent all around damage. Helps with Heatran, who expect me to be a Flamethrower/Toxic version, and then they realize they can't stay in anymore.

Skarmory is standard, but I run a hell of a lot of speed on it... something like 207 or whatever, just so I can Whirlwind Suicune before it Roars me. Drill Peck > Brave Bird, because I don't want to hurt myself too much. A few times Brave Bird killed me after tanking a hit from Heracross or something.


Thanks for writing such a good guide Obi. I tried to be as different as I could (like using togekiss to wish, and whatnot) but eventually I came crawling closer towards your top notch design.

[Colonel M]

Hm, I have a question Obi if you don't mind answering. Why is it that you use Hidden Power Electric and not Sludge Bomb on Tentacruel? Granted that HP Electric hits Water-types, Sludge Bomb hits them pretty hard anyways with the benefit of hurting Celebi a lot more. It has few resists combined with Surf as only Empoleon, Shedinja, Qwilfish (UU), and other Tentacruel resist it (I guess other Tentacruel might be the reason why though).

Despite what many think I'd say the team is probably at its best here. Perhaps Rotom would be nice to have; however, you still have every threat covered for the most part. I guess there could be some scare of a few things but in general they'd have trouble anyways. Life Orb Dragon Dance Gyarados can still 2HKO with Ice Fang against Celebi which could, after, be a problem. Shaymin-S would be the only Pokemon I might even come close to mention if its the SubSeed set. Otherwise the team can handle them for the most part anyway.

A solid team (but seriously I hate this team with a passion).

[kd24]

thanks for reposting this obi!

I do have my worries about Lucario, specifially CM Lucario. im thinking that you should keep flamethrower on blissey and not opt for thunderbolt. Heatran can be dealt with by this team, lucario is a much bigger threat however you still beat it probably 95% of the time lol.

how would you deal with the new rotom forms? They will knock out your 3 indirect damage pokemon, beat celebi and just gives you all around problems. unfortunately, it can even rest + sleep talk stall blissey around if it wants to :/. Im sure you could deal with it but it would be nice to see how.

[RaikouLover]

You have revived stall... go to hell Obi [I'm just kidding please don't take that seriously and infract me!]

In all seriousness though, this is the best stall team I've ever fought. Simply because that Perish Song Celebi really fucks me over every time. I say that because I've fought about 10 carbon copies of this team yesterday and it was annoying as hell. My normal method of beating them is to eliminate the Gyarados counter, then win with RestTalk DD Gyarados. Unfortunately, Perish Song Celebi has reared his ugly head and I lacked a pursuiter to trap it. Usually that strategy works, use like a Calm Minder that can beat Bliss or some great last minute pokemon but Perish Song Celebi is brilliant and seals the win... nice job!

[porky]

I noticed you were talking about heatran, and overburdening tentacruel!


Well say no more, rotom-w is here! it has basically the same stats as spiritomb, can use the same set except one thing. Hydro pump, that will be the end of heatran, i think you should give it a shot.

[Stallion]

Yeah I used Perish Song on my Platinum Stall team Celebi (didn't know you used it too), cause I found that with last pokemon Blissey/CurseLax/CMCune being a pain in the ass, that I needed a 100 % check against them. I do recommend a Rotom form over Spiritomb, doesn't matter which but personally I'd go Wash. It can be a last ditch Infernape and Heatran killer (although I'm sure you won't get into that sitch) and helps you out with Gyara if you've lost Celebi early. Anyway sweet team Obi :).

EDIT: Holy fuck I just realised that with Rotom W > Spiritomb, we have exactly the same stall team, aside from different EV spreads and movesets. Anyway yeah, contrary to what most people think, this team is definately beatable. I remember that Salamence always buttfucked me (LO Mix variants as well as DD + Fire Blast + LO variants). The DD one in particular was deadly, because it would always come out of nowhere and sweep lategame :(. Still, my version is one of the best teams I've used, which by extension means that you have a very solid team on your hands.

[Imran]

Stall is all over the place at the moment. I have a few of this exact team, but I have also seen a lot of people with variations of this. The amount of Hippowdown leads i see is incredible, and the amount that stay in to each a choice scarf is also quite amazing. It doesn't quite seem worth it for just getting Stealth Rock, and it becomes set-up bait? What would you do against Trick Scarf Pokemon? I guess a Rotom could help out with that, but it would also put a huge burden on ResTalk Rotom if it also has to run trick, AND will o wisp, then you lose Hydro Pump coverage etc... It seems like trick might be a bit of a pain for this team in general.

[Legacy Raider]

Trick is a pain in the butt for almost all Stall teams. I was thinking maybe run Trick on Celebi to Trick back Scarfs and stuff, but there is nothing you can really replace. The commodity of Trick really has dealt a blow for defensive play imo.

[6A9 Ace Matador]

Originally Posted by Fat Legacy Raider

Trick is a pain in the butt for almost all Stall teams. I was thinking maybe run Trick on Celebi to Trick back Scarfs and stuff, but there is nothing you can really replace. The commodity of Trick really has dealt a blow for defensive play imo.

Yeah, it has rendered key pokemon in most if not all stall teams ineffective 90% of the time.
I usually have to switch to something near dead late game, or sacrifice something.
Never the less, stall will remain an amazing style of play to use, and even more complicated in trick full platinum.

[Bogmire]

I don't know why everyone is suggesting rotom>spiritomb. all that does is give obi a problem with other rotom forms especially restalk and another pursuit weakness. spiritomb is also a better switch into machamp than rotom is, or anything else on his team, thanks to having no payback weakness. pressure is always a nice trait for stall, too.

Well say no more, rotom-w is here! it has basically the same stats as spiritomb, can use the same set except one thing. Hydro pump, that will be the end of heatran, i think you should give it a shot.

well rotom-w is 2HKOed by fire blast, so I wouldn't plan on using it as a heatran counter especially since hydro pump never KOs and tentacruel or blissey are much better switch ins.