Stall Team

[david stone]

Tentacruel is probably the best Trick taker. I actually considered giving it a Choice Scarf for a while, anyway. It would help against guys that raise their Speed, for instance, and also let me strike at Salamence / Gyarados before they get a chance to move. Of course, if they bring out their Tricker late game, I make other decisions, for instance, I might let Skarmory take the Trick if they have SD Heracross.

[Jumpman16**]

im stickying this thread because if i played competitively this is exactly the kind of effort i would put into making a team and posting the rmt (just read any of my posts in the battle tower thread, lol)

[TAY]

Well I made my own variation on this team, and it has worked out pretty damn well. Here are my suggestions based on my trials:

Go for Roar over Ice Fang. The only things Ice Fang hits hard are Salamence, Flygon, and Gliscor. The latter two are hardly ever seen, and Salamence is just as damaged by Roar with SR and SS going anyway. Having Roar as an anti-set up measure, and simply as a shuffler, is extremely beneficial.

There is no point im using HP Electric on Tentacruel. Who the hell doesn't use Earthquake on Gyarados? and with Toxic Blissey and Celebi, bulky waters (which dont take much from HP Elec anyway) are hardly a problem. Instead, I would go with Rest. Tentacruel is the only member of the team which cannot self-heal, and that, above other things, forces Blissey to use Wish + Protect. With Rest you allow Blissey to use Aromatherapy, which in turn allows you to clear sleep and other status from the rest of your team. In a metagame where a single turn of set-up can sweep 5/6 of your team, you really don't want to have that last member asleep or paralyzed or whatever. It's also incredibly useful when you don't have to care about Skarmory and Tentacruel being burned or paralyzed and you can just continue to lay entry hazards and then just bring in Blissey. So giving Tentacruel Rest and Blissey Aromatherapy and Softboiled over Wish and Protect allows this team to function better in the current metagame.

I used HP Fire on Celebi and it worked out OK, but I am not convinced it is the best option. It is pretty nice to eat those annoying Scizors who like to come in on GK, though (and to have a decent option against Luke!).

There is no way in hell that Spiritomb is better than Rotom. The only thing Spritomb has over Rotom is not being weak to Pursuit, but that pales in comparison to the fact that Rotom beats - not just stalls out - every spinner, and is a great counter to a number of other pokemon as well. Spiritomb is 2HKO'd by any reasonably powerful attack, despite its zero weaknesses. So a special defensive Rest / Talk Rotom is optimal here.

[Bogmire]

There is no way in hell that Spiritomb is better than Rotom. The only thing Spritomb has over Rotom is not being weak to Pursuit, but that pales in comparison to the fact that Rotom beats - not just stalls out - every spinner, and is a great counter to a number of other pokemon as well. Spiritomb is 2HKO'd by any reasonably powerful attack, despite its zero weaknesses. So a special defensive Rest / Talk Rotom is optimal here.

restalk spiritomb is the best rotom counter in the game, hands down. a major advantage spiritomb has over rotom. without spiritomb his team has a nasty restalk rotom weak. Restalk rotom has 5 more pp in its moveset than obi's blissey so its easily stalled out. no other member of obi's team stands a chance against rotom.

[Articanus]

I just want to say that TAY's team 6-0ed my paralysis team(which, while still being in-progress, wasn't anything to snoff at). With Tentacruel having Rest and Blissey spamming Aromatherapy, I couldn't ever get a chance to really abuse Paralysis and it just got the best of me, even when I predicted switches I couldn't abuse them because he had six pokemon that just seemed to perfectly counter my six. =/

What makes me really like his team, thought, is the presence of Rotom over Spiritomb. Mainly because the pursuit weakness makes it easier for my Angels team to take on(whenever I can ladder with it ><")

[Aeroblacktyl]

Read up until post #10 so I don't know if I'm going to repeat...

But the easiest and main way to beat stall is simple. Have a plan. Sure, you -might- be able to stop a single Poke by listing it, but used cohesively? Less of a chance. For example, this team would not like a Rain Dance team at all. And with the random apeshit offensive things people are spamming around, stall teams won't even work against a random average newbie. You see people sacrificing their Lucarios do the 80% to Hippowdon, then out comes CBTar and utterly you are fucked. Playing stall is playing paper Pokemon, it's just obsolete, especially with Platinum. There is no way this team is capable of dealing and handling things like Salamence and Scizor and other random shit thrown together.

[cim]

That sounds correct in theory, but obviously not in practice. Obi successfully laddered with this team.

Specific examples of what you named that ruined his team:
Lucario sac to CBtar: Well, the only move that does 25% to Hippowdon would be Crunch, Skarmory resists, sets up Spikes on it, phazes, takes 25% or more every turn it tries to come in. Hippo can get a Wish from Blissey or heal itself later.

Rain Dance team: Protect goes a long way against stuff that's not, like, SD Kabutops, and Celebi handles non-X-Scissor variants anyway. Switching in Hippowdon just once ruins it, but you have to come in on an unSTABed move.

Stall teams are very tricky to use because you have to react to strategy and think several turns in advance, but it can be done and has been. I think.

[Aeroblacktyl]

Originally Posted by Fat Chris is me

That sounds correct in theory, but obviously not in practice. Obi successfully laddered with this team.

Specific examples of what you named that ruined his team:
Lucario sac to CBtar: Well, the only move that does 25% to Hippowdon would be Crunch, Skarmory resists, sets up Spikes on it, phazes, takes 25% or more every turn it tries to come in. Hippo can get a Wish from Blissey or heal itself later.

Rain Dance team: Protect goes a long way against stuff that's not, like, SD Kabutops, and Celebi handles non-X-Scissor variants anyway. Switching in Hippowdon just once ruins it, but you have to come in on an unSTABed move.

Stall teams are very tricky to use because you have to react to strategy and think several turns in advance, but it can be done and has been. I think.

If you want to split hairs, then Lucario does 76-90%. CBTar just using Stone Edge does 21-25%. Or it can just go ahead and kill the Hippowdon, have to switch out of using Crunch, and late sweep with Stone Edge.

Just because a team was solid against newbies and noobs alike does not mean it was a 'great team.' It just so happens to be a proven team that works against who it was suppose to work against, and this was BACK THEN. Surely there is no concievable way to counter everything there is now. I don't even recall if that team ever beat anyone of worthy notice anyways.

Once again, ladder standing means nothing. I got to #1 with 6 random offense bullshit Pokes, that doesn't mean anything. All you need is some determination, a little bit of luck along with competent skills and you'll most likely be up there.

[Fatality]

The idea of choosing certain moves to be on your team then compiling lists of possible candidates seems like a great idea. Is this how many/all "really good" players do it? Because I never could figure it out.. I was always starting with Pokémon and then applying MoveSets. Thanks =]

[david stone]

Is more applying certain strategies than certain moves. For instance, one of the things that I wanted on this team was "a Ghost" to block Rapid Spin. That's not a move, but I also didn't say "OK first I'm going to add Spiritomb...".

That's how I build most of my teams. Sometimes I'll do something like "I don't think people are taking Heracross into account enough right now. Let's see what happens if I stick that on my team. Now what can I do to try and make this Heracross sweep unstoppable?".

[Upa]

Lol, good team Obi.

I tried this team exactly down to the EVs you mentioned, changed a bit here and there, but I lost more battles than I won.


This generation has brought more Physical and Special threats. But hardly any new Walls, ok, Hippowdon and Bronzong, thats it merely. But there are harder hitting Pokemon now, like Infernape, Garchomp etc. And Close Combat and Stone edge and powerful attacks mean that Stalling is not a very good option anymore. Agreed, I may not be as skilled as many of you, but a team is a team.

Now the strategy for the Metagame is to hit Harder and Faster than the Opponenet.

[panamaxis]

Stall remains a great style play, you just have to know how to use it. Close Combat is powerful? Switch to the ghost? Stone Edge is powerful? Switch to Hippo. Sure more moves are more powerful but these teams can resist those moves and the pokemon that have those moves which is why it is so great.

A team is a team but the team is only as good as the person that is using it. If you know how to use stall, you will go far. Great team Obi and I agree that this is an excellent guide on Stall and how to present a RMT.

[bigv9997]

Obi I have a question, I have tried this team a few days and I have noticed that it was very hard for me to defeat a gliscor with x scizor and taunt rapes me if I play with a hippow without ice fang.

what would you do if you were encountered with such a threat?

[Duck Tape Son]

A question comes to mind, how will Obi's team handle Latios.

Another thing coming to mind, with Garchomp in Ubers now, Perish Song Celebi will function alot better imo

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by Fat Duck Tape Son

A question comes to mind, how will Obi's team handle Latios.

Another thing coming to mind, with Garchomp in Ubers now, Perish Song Celebi will function alot better imo

Blissey beats special versions and Skarm can phaze dd latios.Though this team is meant for a complety diffrent meta.

[Stone_Cold]

Flamethrower blissey works so well for this team, it's probably the only time it can beat a skarm.

[Woj]

Originally Posted by Fat stone_cold22

Flamethrower blissey works so well for this team, it's probably the only time it can beat a skarm.

agreed otherwise skarm could be a real pain for this team.

Otherwise, damn solid team as we all know haha

[Upa]

Originally Posted by Fat Cerulean21

Thanks to this thread, Stall teams are actually flooding the place. Out of 20 battles, at least 15 were Stall teams that looked almost exactly like yours. (and I use a Stall team meself, though quite a bit longer than a few days ^^. Anyway, just wanted to inform you about the consequences of your post....

Save a few UUs and maybe Bronzong, there are hardly any other Stalling pokemon out there. I agree, Obi has almost created the Stall strategy, but I rarely ever see any Pokemon which don't use Obi's Sets.

Kudos to you Obi, for creating a new .... Thing.

[david stone]

vs. other stall teams usually comes down to who can block Rapid Spin the best, and then just wear out some of their Pokemon with your entry hazards. This is where having a Rotom would be incredibly useful, as it's immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, so it's harder to stop it from blocking your Rapid Spin (on the flip side, it's easier to kill with Pursuit).

[Duck Tape Son]

Rotom is the reason why Rapid Spin could be useless now (despite the high amounts of its usage still). Starmie won't beat Rotom, Donphan will get WoWed, Forry is OHKOed by Overheat, Rest Talk Tentacruel is a better option in taking it on, but Rest, Sleep Talk, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin is... lame, so Tenta varients won't be much of help either (but the best shot imo).

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by Fat Duck Tape Son

Rotom is the reason why Rapid Spin could be useless now (despite the high amounts of its usage still). Starmie won't beat Rotom, Donphan will get WoWed, Forry is OHKOed by Overheat, Rest Talk Tentacruel is a better option in taking it on, but Rest, Sleep Talk, Toxic Spikes, Rapid Spin is... lame, so Tenta varients won't be much of help either (but the best shot imo).

Could run life orb over leftovers on starmie allowing you to 2 hit ko with hydro pump and open the chance to spin.

[Mrobinson587]

Some thought's on this as I have seen many people copy paste over half of your stall team movesets and all (which I found aggravating , yet effective on their part as they did what they needed to)
I would just like to point out in my effort to find a stall/wall breaker for my team I came across mixed Metagross from the analysis

Expert Belt, Naughty Nature
252 Atk / 124 SpA / 132 Spe
~ Meteor Mash
~ Earthquake
~ Grass Knot
~ Hidden Power Fire


...which if i calculated correctly at the minimum 100% of the time 2HKO your entire team with their EV's and the standard EV's of those pokes WITHOUT stealth rock. It would be able to take down at least 1 of your pokes and do significant damage to whatever comes in to Revenge KO it next. It also is immune to toxic spikes and resistant to stealth rock. It outspeeds Blissey and hippwdon who are the only ones who have any chance of really damaging it. Tentacreul doesn't do much damage and only has the slimmest of chances to survive an earthquake something which stealth rock takes away.

Rotom H would stop that Metagross possibly sweeping and countering your entire team.

Thoughts Obi? In your original most you only mentioned meta as a physical threat even though he has the movepool and stats to run a mixed set. Sure the physical set has all kinds of power but is easily countered and dealt with Hippowdon which grass knot promptly handles for a clean 2HKO on the mixed set

Also I am curious as to how you would deal with some sort of bulky Clefable with a form of recovery? With the kind of unpredictablity and moveset that clefable has, it could hold the stall with most of your team only possibly getting pp stalled.

Also as I saw in the stealth rock thread you seem to be (at least jokingly) if not more frustrated with Trick. I'm sure it does all sorts of nasty to your stall team and others. How do you deal with trick and what options are you considering.? I would also like to note that clefable carry orbs and now has the option to trick it. I use a clefable lead and I will say, Hippowdon leads like neither a flame nor toxic orb especially the latter.

(Hmm sorry if this seems a bit scattered this post has been sitting on my computer the whole day)

[iKitsune]

Heatran is becoming increasingly problematic for this team.

Heatran @ Leftovers
252spatk/252speed
timid

sub
earth power
fire blast/flamethrower
toxic

earth power can 2hko tentacruel with sr blissey cant do shit and fireblast causes serious problems for everything else. This basically wrecks yours and my stall team.

[david stone]

The trick is to wear it out of Fire Blast PP. It only gets 8 of them. Spiritomb is the ideal Pokemon to take them with due to Pressure and the ability to Rest off Toxic, but Fire Blast hurts a lot.

[Lickitungyourmom]

Why not just chuck in a strong pursuit user like CB Ttar to take out rotoms that switch into your tentacruel? It doesnt even need choice band to ohko most rotom variants on the switch