CAP 6 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 4

darkie · Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:35:09 PM

I'm on speed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Name: Decentralizer
Description:A Pokemon can check a majority of the current top 5 Pokemon.

This is basically what Gormenghast wanted to do with Camerupt, but broader. I feel that specifically mentioning Scizor, Zapdos, and Heatran makes the concept too restrictive, but ideally this would be able to take at least two of these Pokemon on (Blissey does fthis for certain varients of Zapdos and Heatran). Unfortunately, there are very few type combos that do this, which is why I don't want to mention any specific Pokemon in the description.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Sikh Assassin

Concept: The Great Tank of China
Description: A tank designed to take hits, and dish a lot of them out as well

This Pokemon is the one me and tennisace are basically dying for. AKA type1/type2 tank, attacking and walling (most likely specially biased). It would be like Rhyperior in a sense, except it would be aimed for at the special side of the spectrum. The movepool would be able to hit hard, and could probably assist the team with moves such as Spikes / Stealth Rock, as well as status moves such as T-Wave which is a given.

It would be able to counter Heatran (if we add an ability or something, such as Levitate) and it already completely owns Zapdos for the most part (HP Ice may be the only problem). We can make it this fully adapted to the OU environment countering many threats. We can also make it so that it is more like Rhyperior ability-wise being able to actually counter a lot of threats. The typing is really subjective but type1/type2 is currently what I am hoping for. The main idea though is a tank, likely special biased so it isn't a mini-Rhyperior.

Vote for the one you think will benefit the CAP metagame the most.

Usage Stats

SgtWoodsy · Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:37:06 PM

Broken record time.

Nice milestone, too.

Beej · Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:37:51 PM

Voted, again, for the decentralizer. While a tank sounds like a fun idea, the decentralizer seems much more objective.

Lawman · Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:39:32 PM

Quoting myself from the last thread:

Quote:

I am just going to emphasize this to everyone voting, Don't base your choice off of an example typing for Great Tank. It DOES NOT have to be typeA/typeB, and people making their choices based off of their paradigm that this Great Tank would have to be typeA/typeB are not thinking through their vote properly.

I encourage everyone in the next poll to think over their votes carefully. Assuming that one pokemon will have XY typing or this or that move with blabla stats etc. will throw off the votes than if you carefully and unbiasedly think about your vote. I am not bashing anyone's chocie, I am just saying that all of you should be careful in your reasoning. Maybe the Great Wall is the best choice, but by having that paradigm that it has to be TypeA/TypeB could lead us astray from other typings that could potentially be better. Maybe you guys don't vote for it just because you think it will be TypeA/TypeB. Either way, just please think over your votes before voting.

I personally have no preference of the 3 up there over the other, as they all can yield interesting, fun, and overall quality pokemon, but chose to vote for decentralizer. I am not encouraging people to change their minds on what they want or to vote differently in the next thread, just to make sure that they are putting reason into their vote and that you don't vote for all the wrong reasons.

Happy voting guys. Good Luck to both concepts. I will wait to vote however, as I would like to see other's opinion's between the two concepts that DON'T involve typing =]

Hyra · Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:40:05 PM

voting myself, nothing else really to say

Kamen Rider · Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:43:40 PM

Vote decentralizere again. The wall really isn't a bad concept, and while I posted some concerns about shoehorning I still believe level headed minds would prevail in the long run should it get picked.

However taking a look at the statistics posted today, I would say its a very good argument that there is some centralization going on, worse than standard OU and I think seeing if we can correct the problem to some extent will provide not only important knowledge for the metagame, but the impact of CaP project as a whole.

Magmortified · Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:44:00 PM

I think Decentralizer really has a good chance to win this all together, seeing as tier-tossup was a similar - albeit slightly more restrictive - concept. If Decentralizer gets the votes from there, CAP6 is decided. :D

Voted Decentralizer again.

Lawman · Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:51:32 PM

I would like to encourage more voters to post, seeing as I feel that discussion instead of just stating personal opinions, especially in this final vote, would be beneficial. This especially applies to you new to the CaP forum, and I think I speak on behalf of the CaP community in that we would all like to hear your thoughts on this and future votes. Don't be afraid to actually post and discuss as opposed to just clicking a poll and not checking up on it again :D

tennisace · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:01:09 PM

Voted Tank, though it doesn't matter one way or the other.

sharkshocker · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:05:48 PM

I voted for Decentralizer...Although I don't play OU as much (I play more UU) one of the reasons I like UU is the variety of strategies/pokemon that people use. If OU was decentralized so I wouldn't have to face down Scizor and Zapdos as much, there would be an increase in novel movesets.

It's my first time posting in CaP, and thank you Lawman for the encouragement to other new participants.

Lawman · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:08:41 PM

Of course, this is exactly what I was aiming for. I am glad to see you starting to participate in CaP, and I look forward to your input in future threads. Now if only all the other newer users would do the same and we could have some great discussions and debates going on.

Bluecaptain · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:13:31 PM

Voted Decentralizer

Sharpteeth · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:32:50 PM

Wow, that guy's ^ only post was a vote?

Voted Tank, think defense needs a boost, OU's too offensive for my taste.

Umbreon Dan · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:35:06 PM

Voted Tank again, same reasons as last time. I don't have a problem with Dragon/Electric, but it doesn't have to be that type. I think Steel/Ghost is worth exploring as well.

Also, yes. ^ That was his first post, a vote. Lawman must've encouraged him too :P

Not Scicky · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:37:08 PM

50/50 >>

Is it me, or are CAP's polls getting closer and closer?

Goodbar · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:39:38 PM

You guys realize that a tank is usually a more offensively geared pokemon? I think a lot of people are confusing tank with wall ?_?

SgtWoodsy · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:41:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mr_Goodbar

You guys realize that a tank is usually a more offensively geared pokemon? I think a lot of people are confusing tank with wall ?_?

I'm also thinking people are confusing "check" with "counter".

Darkflagrance · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:41:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Atyroki

50/50 >>

Is it me, or are CAP's polls getting closer and closer?

As someone stated a while back, perhaps it is because the skill of the community in making pokemon is increasing, and thus submissions are increasing in quality, leading to no clear winners.

Doesn't hurt that the concepts are not actually that different and will likely function very similarly.

Not Scicky · Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:45:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mr_Goodbar

You guys realize that a tank is usually a more offensively geared pokemon? I think a lot of people are confusing tank with wall ?_?

Usually = Definitely?

We have complete control over this project, we can make it go however the community pleases

ferron · Dec 3rd, 2008, 11:07:28 PM

voted decentralizer. it has a much more clear aim by trying to check only a few pokes, and a nice variety of ways to do it. the only major problems i see with this creation will be the debates over the movepool b/c so much can be done to counteract/check those few.

this is not to say that th great wall does not have a variety of ways to do it (high hp, high defences, immunities, typing, etc.) but just look at what people have done over the mention of dragon/electric. it has caused too much discussion already to say that it isn't the forerunner of this build, which takes away from the very idea of CAP.

Not Scicky · Dec 3rd, 2008, 11:14:30 PM

I really don't like the decentralizer idea, I mean, there are plenty of UU's who could check a couple OU's, but they're not very good other than that, so then what? This thing serves it's purpose and is then useless, or is useless right off the bat because other than killing a couple pokemon the opponent didn't even have, there's no use for it?

tennisace · Dec 3rd, 2008, 11:16:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat ferron

this is not to say that th great wall does not have a variety of ways to do it (high hp, high defences, immunities, typing, etc.) but just look at what people have done over the mention of dragon/electric. it has caused too much discussion already to say that it isn't the forerunner of this build, which takes away from the very idea of CAP.

You misunderstood or misread the concept: it's the Great Tank of China, there's a huge difference. And how exactly does poll jumping take away from CAP? I think its better since people know what they do and don't want early on, it makes everything go smoother.

ferron · Dec 3rd, 2008, 11:17:04 PM

its says it checks them, it doesnt say thats all it has to do. if the movepool and stats are decent enough it can still be useful, but will only really shine against those few.

jagged_angel · Dec 3rd, 2008, 11:17:36 PM

Whoa. This darkie is clearly Scarfed! :-)

Voted Decentraliser.

Its goal is much more clearly beneficial to the CAP metagame. There have been arguments for why a tank would be beneficial but judging just from the concept pitches, Decentraliser is much more obviously useful.

Decentraliser is also not that far removed from Tier-Tossup which was a great, if very ambitious concept.

Another reason to choose Decentraliser over Tank is that we have already made two CAPs who can be called tanks, Pyroak and Revenankh.

While CAP6 may end up as a tank too, I'd rather focus on decentralisation and let the stats be tailored to suit it. It's better than focusing on tankish stats and trying to incorporate decentralisation as an ancillary goal.

ferron · Dec 3rd, 2008, 11:22:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat tennisace

You misunderstood or misread the concept: it's the Great Tank of China, there's a huge difference. And how exactly does poll jumping take away from CAP? I think its better since people know what they do and don't want early on, it makes everything go smoother.

i dont see how anything i said takes away from it being a tank. isn't a big part of being a tank its ability to not just deal, but TAKE damage? also, part of the fun creating something in a large group is the discussion about how it should be done. with people's minds already on a specific typing it limits our choices. while this may be considered streamlining, how do we know that we aren't in fact skipping over a better alternative?

edit:just realized i said greatwall instead of great tank by accident. now i feel slightly foolish.

View Poll Results: Which concept? (think very carefully!)
Decentralizer	113	57.07%
The Great Tank of China	85	42.93%
Voters: 198. You may not vote on this poll

Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:37:51 PM	#3
Beej Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 574	Voted, again, for the decentralizer. While a tank sounds like a fun idea, the decentralizer seems much more objective. __________________ http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...000/carsig.png Current high score in Robot Unicorn Attack: 93112

Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:51:32 PM	#8
Lawman Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,928 Illinois	I would like to encourage more voters to post, seeing as I feel that discussion instead of just stating personal opinions, especially in this final vote, would be beneficial. This especially applies to you new to the CaP forum, and I think I speak on behalf of the CaP community in that we would all like to hear your thoughts on this and future votes. Don't be afraid to actually post and discuss as opposed to just clicking a poll and not checking up on it again :D __________________ Good bye, Smogon. If I return, it shan't be soon.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:01:09 PM	#9
tennisace RIDE OR DIE MOTHERFUCKERS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 5,236	Voted Tank, though it doesn't matter one way or the other. __________________ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:08:41 PM	#11
Lawman Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,928 Illinois	Of course, this is exactly what I was aiming for. I am glad to see you starting to participate in CaP, and I look forward to your input in future threads. Now if only all the other newer users would do the same and we could have some great discussions and debates going on. __________________ Good bye, Smogon. If I return, it shan't be soon.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:37:06 PM	#2
SgtWoodsy Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,127	Broken record time. Nice milestone, too.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:43:40 PM	#6
Kamen Rider Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 174	Vote decentralizere again. The wall really isn't a bad concept, and while I posted some concerns about shoehorning I still believe level headed minds would prevail in the long run should it get picked. However taking a look at the statistics posted today, I would say its a very good argument that there is some centralization going on, worse than standard OU and I think seeing if we can correct the problem to some extent will provide not only important knowledge for the metagame, but the impact of CaP project as a whole.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 9:44:00 PM	#7
Magmortified CAP 8 Playtesting Expert Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 669 It's a showdown.	I think Decentralizer really has a good chance to win this all together, seeing as tier-tossup was a similar - albeit slightly more restrictive - concept. If Decentralizer gets the votes from there, CAP6 is decided. :D Voted Decentralizer again.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:05:48 PM	#10
sharkshocker Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 86	I voted for Decentralizer...Although I don't play OU as much (I play more UU) one of the reasons I like UU is the variety of strategies/pokemon that people use. If OU was decentralized so I wouldn't have to face down Scizor and Zapdos as much, there would be an increase in novel movesets. It's my first time posting in CaP, and thank you Lawman for the encouragement to other new participants.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:13:31 PM	#12
Bluecaptain Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 338	Voted Decentralizer

Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:32:50 PM	#13
Sharpteeth Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 232 Circling the sun at 29.783 km/s (actual speed may vary over the next 100 years)	Wow, that guy's ^ only post was a vote? Voted Tank, think defense needs a boost, OU's too offensive for my taste. __________________ L'ennui est ma Muse.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:35:06 PM	#14
Umbreon Dan Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,184 kiss my ass, this is a holy site.	Voted Tank again, same reasons as last time. I don't have a problem with Dragon/Electric, but it doesn't have to be that type. I think Steel/Ghost is worth exploring as well. Also, yes. ^ That was his first post, a vote. Lawman must've encouraged him too :P

Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:37:08 PM	#15
Not Scicky Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,311 Bland Juicer	50/50 >> Is it me, or are CAP's polls getting closer and closer? __________________ And I was gone.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 10:39:38 PM	#16
Goodbar Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 5,591 ^ brought to you by Cartoons!	You guys realize that a tank is usually a more offensively geared pokemon? I think a lot of people are confusing tank with wall ?_?

Dec 3rd, 2008, 11:07:28 PM	#20
ferron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 542	voted decentralizer. it has a much more clear aim by trying to check only a few pokes, and a nice variety of ways to do it. the only major problems i see with this creation will be the debates over the movepool b/c so much can be done to counteract/check those few. this is not to say that th great wall does not have a variety of ways to do it (high hp, high defences, immunities, typing, etc.) but just look at what people have done over the mention of dragon/electric. it has caused too much discussion already to say that it isn't the forerunner of this build, which takes away from the very idea of CAP.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 11:14:30 PM	#21
Not Scicky Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,311 Bland Juicer	I really don't like the decentralizer idea, I mean, there are plenty of UU's who could check a couple OU's, but they're not very good other than that, so then what? This thing serves it's purpose and is then useless, or is useless right off the bat because other than killing a couple pokemon the opponent didn't even have, there's no use for it? __________________ And I was gone.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 11:17:04 PM	#23
ferron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 542	its says it checks them, it doesnt say thats all it has to do. if the movepool and stats are decent enough it can still be useful, but will only really shine against those few.

Dec 3rd, 2008, 11:17:36 PM	#24
jagged_angel Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 571 London	Whoa. This darkie is clearly Scarfed! :-) Voted Decentraliser. Its goal is much more clearly beneficial to the CAP metagame. There have been arguments for why a tank would be beneficial but judging just from the concept pitches, Decentraliser is much more obviously useful. Decentraliser is also not that far removed from Tier-Tossup which was a great, if very ambitious concept. Another reason to choose Decentraliser over Tank is that we have already made two CAPs who can be called tanks, Pyroak and Revenankh. While CAP6 may end up as a tank too, I'd rather focus on decentralisation and let the stats be tailored to suit it. It's better than focusing on tankish stats and trying to incorporate decentralisation as an ancillary goal. __________________ If I haven't seen further, it's because giants were standing on my shoulders...