CAP 6 - Stat Spread Discussion / Submissions

[Hyra]

Well, the 100 Atk Stat with my spread can go into either offense. But those are the numbers needed to have high speed and good offense, unfortunately. So I can't really get any more attack or any less defense unless slightly offensive makes a miraculous comeback.

[sbc]

I know BST isn't everything but LR, I think that 565 BST is excessive, I'd make 555 the cut off point. You could probably trim HP slightly or offensive stats slightly.

[diinbong]

HP: 125
Atk: 105
Def: 70
SpA: 85
SpD: 77
Spe: 80

HP: The high HP allows it to take attacks from both sides of the spectrum like Zapdos' Thunderbolts or Scizor's Superpower.

Atk: It needed enough attack to fend for itself but not enough to sweep. Obviously it is mostly Physical.

Def: The only average Defense is okay due to its high HP and good resistances (presumably).

SpA: Enough to utilize Special Attacks if it needs to, but not enough to do damage to non-specific threats.

SpD: Similar to its defense, its resistances and HP make its Special Defense Stat enough to take on dangerous (popular) threats.

Spe: It isn't slow, but is not fast enough to sweep.

This is just combining some ideas in this thread and adding some spunk.

May edit with Calcs and such.

[ferron]

98/85/105/70/115/85
Physical Sweepiness: 116, Above Average
Physical Tankiness: 149, Very Good
Special Sweepiness: 98, Average
Special Tankiness: 162, Extremely Good
Offense/Defense Balance: -18.2 Moderate Bias to Defense
Physical/Special Bias: 5.2, Slight Bias to Physical
Overall Rating: 419, Very Good.
BSR=558

i noticed that many threats to a water/fighting would come from the special spectrum (strat with drain, and zapados with anything) as opposed to the physical side, that is mostly shrugged off due to typing. plus, its already been mentioned that fighting tends to have some special defense.

its subs will max at 100 (i really didn't want 101 and above).

the 85 speed give it just enough to out do a few threats, while its attacks are just enough to max a physical bias but still allow for a mix variation.

edit-added 3 points to SpA to make the BSR 419

[tennisace]

First Spread:
140 HP/85 Att/70 Def/81 SpA/70 SpD/109 Spe


Itssss Backkkkkkkk!

Yep, 109 Speed. Screw you Infernape and Fidgit. It also still loses to Gengar et. al. 140 HP may seem Excessive, but lowered defenses and balanced stats mean this thing comes very close to zero, while maintaining a very good rating. I'll edit more info in as I refine the spread. BST: 555 (Didn't even think about this but sweet.)

I also have a "nerfed" version if this is a bit too hardcore for you guys:

140 HP/75 Att/60 Def/71 SpA/60 SpD/109 Spe



BST: 515

[Deck Knight]

I'll probably take flack for this, but here we go:

Wailordmon:

165/95/70/80/75/70
BST: 555
PSweep: 116 (Above Average)
PTank: 149 (Very Good)
SSweep 101 (Average)
STank: 157 (Very Good)
ODB: 16.6 Moderate Bias to Defense
PSB: 5.0 No Bias
BSR: 410, Very Good.

Alright, so the take here is Huge HP, somewhat decent offenses, and a speed number hig enough to beat Scizor and TTar with the same EVs. Offensive stats are decent enough to explore an option one way or the other. I wouldn't want to be Zapdos eating a Mirror Coat from this :D

[Time Mage]

Originally Posted by Fat SkarmBlissCounter

I still think that this thing needs at least 80 SpA to stop it being useless offensively. It will be walled by Skarmory and Celebi all day with low SpA and it needs less EVs to 2HKO Gyarados with HP Electric which it walls completely without EQ. And you aren't affected if Salamence Intimidates you as you could possibly Ice Beam it.

And there's the potential of a LO Special Attacker with the ability to OHKO Snorlax and Blissey.

But this doesn't have to be good against EVERYTHING!

In fact, it IS desirable to be walled/checked/countered/whatever by several pokémon not on the top 10. If it ends being good/decent against everything, then, instead of being a decentralizer we will make a pokémon that actually centers the metagame... around itself!

So, I think lower SpAtt is not only not bad, but desirable, so that it cannot threaten everything. If it ends up having Unaware as it seems it will, then it already has a powerful tool to deal with DDmence (as in your example), even if it gets intimidated, as Salamence won't gain anything by DDing in front of it, and CAP6 can use that time to kill it too, even with the lowered attack.

Bottom line is: Let this be a decentralizer by countering the top 5/10... But don't let it centralize the metagame around itself in the proccess! It should have good counters outside the top 5/10, and letting it have one of its attacking stats unusable will achieve it.

[Serenity]

I think this spread would allow some versatility. Definitely on the defensive side, and with its decent attack it would be able to hit back. It could tank Specially, since alot of the top 5 are specials, and it can hit them back with physical or special moves.

[ferron]

serenity, right now moderate defense is winning, so you might was to change that a bit

[X-Act]

I think this Pokemon should have more SpD than Def, as seven of the top 10 Pokemon usually hit using Special moves (only Revenankh, Tyranitar and Scizor don't).

[ferron]

Originally Posted by Fat X-Act

I think this Pokemon should have more SpD than Def, as seven of the top 10 Pokemon usually hit using Special moves (only Revenankh, Tyranitar and Scizor don't).

completely agree with this statement, but for some reason people want to make def higher or only do bulkiness though hp.

[sbc]

Originally Posted by Fat Time Mage

But this doesn't have to be good against EVERYTHING!

In fact, it IS desirable to be walled/checked/countered/whatever by several pokémon not on the top 10. If it ends being good/decent against everything, then, instead of being a decentralizer we will make a pokémon that actually centers the metagame... around itself!

So, I think lower SpAtt is not only not bad, but desirable, so that it cannot threaten everything. If it ends up having Unaware as it seems it will, then it already has a powerful tool to deal with DDmence (as in your example), even if it gets intimidated, as Salamence won't gain anything by DDing in front of it, and CAP6 can use that time to kill it too, even with the lowered attack.

Bottom line is: Let this be a decentralizer by countering the top 5/10... But don't let it centralize the metagame around itself in the proccess! It should have good counters outside the top 5/10, and letting it have one of its attacking stats unusable will achieve it.

I'm not trying to make it unstoppable, you have to look at it in context: 80 SpA not 100+. I want this pokemon not to be dead weight offensive ala Poliwrath since this will be limited to Waterfall/Ice Punch /Brick Break attacking wise if we're not careful. This pokemon is not meant to be a Blissey and sit there and wall but something that can check them i.e. posing a threat.

And I don't see a problem simply luring out Fighting attack move with Vaporeon and pivoting to Rotom etc or just switching in Zapdos on it. Unless we give it a massive movepool (cough stratagem this will be quite easy to counter and may even prompt things like toxicroak and venasaur to be used.

[tennisace]

Originally Posted by Fat ferron

completely agree with this statement, but for some reason people want to make def higher or only do bulkiness though hp.

People haven't seen the physical/special bias yet, so speaking for myself I'm playing safe.

[SgtWoodsy]

Changed things again.

I can't seem to make my mind up, can I?

[billymills]

I hope no one disregards this because i am unable to post a message.

100/95/95/75/115/70 gives:

-18.6 ODB (as defensive as possible)
2.0 PSB (as special as possible)
388 BSR (Very good)
550 BST

HP wasn't initally planned to be 100, but it could be used for 101 subs against blissey. It's mainly for defensive purposes, but a subpunch set could work.


Calcs:

Defensive:

Max Special attack Zapdos against 252/252+: 53%-63%, 98% 2HKO
Max Special attack Zapdos against 252/0: 73%-86%, Easy 2HKO, but never a OHKO
Max Stratagem tech Gigadrain 252 timid against 252/0: 41%-48%, Easily a 3HKO
Max CB-Tyranitar Crunch, +1 against 252/0: 30%-35%, 45%-53%, Easily a 3HKO
Max CB-Tyranitar Earthquake against 252/0: 50%-58%, Needs a few Defensive Evs to avoid an OHKO

Offensive:

0 attack against 252/0 Tyranitar (unnamed 100 power physical fighting move): 102-120, OHKO
0 attack against 252/252+ Blissey (same attack): 57-67, Surprisingly low, but Blissey can't do much back to it
0 attack against 252/220+ Zapdos (100 power super effective attack): 29-35%, Will not get a 2HKO, needs a few Evs for a 3hko.
0 attack against 252/0 Skarmory with hydro pump: 41-48, A few special Evs will get the 2HKO.

95 attack is only because 0-20 is winning the ODB battle, it would be 85-90 if less than -20 had won. Don't understimate 100 power stab attacks from this. I will change attack to 96 if 0-20 PSB wins, changing PSB to 0.

Above average defence definately helps against the physical threats Tyranitar and Scizor.

75 Special attack means it will mainly be a physical attacker, but watch out for hydro pump all the same.

115 Special defence lets it take hits from the definitely special dominated top ten, as X-Act has pointed out, Scylant doesn't have a chance, also lets it survive a Zapdos t-bolt, which could give weaker zapdos second thoughts before coming/staying in.

Lastly, 70 Speed outspeeds Tyranitar, Scizor and Revenakh all these being the physical threats, it can outspeed or defeat them without taking a possibly crucial second hit. The next speed threat is Zapdos at 100, so there really is no need for a few more speed points.

[linton]

Total Stats: 555

I went for something that was pretty much a fast tank that can do some damage. It's pretty much balanced across the bored. Can attack and defend from both sides with some speed to boot.

[Lawman]

110 / 95 / 80 / 85 / 95 / 85

BST = 550
Physical Sweepiness = 124
Physical Tankiness = 127
Special Sweepines = 112
Speicla Tankiness = 147
Offense/Defense Balance = -9.4
Physical/Special = -2.4
Overall Rating = 353 Very Good

My Stat Spread seems sufficient, but I apoligize if it is similar to anyone elses as I only glanced over the most of them.

With Speed, 85 can outspeed several threats up there, ie Tyranitar, Revenankh, and Scizor, with a lower EV investment.

110/80/95 Defenses is bulky enough to take hits from Many of the top 10. Physically, Tyranitar Rev and Scizor cannot do much. Revenankh usually cannot do much damage without SE of Bulk Up, and if this thing gets an Unaware equivilant, Rev is walled fairly well. Specially, It does very well, and should take lower damage from the likes of Stratagem (sans Giga Drain/HP Flying) and Heatran. HP is high enough to take advantage of Counter and Mirror Coat. with 252/0/0 defense EVs, it can ko the standard Bulky Zapdos with Mirror Coat, but not Metal Sound or LO Versions, but I reckon the it can do so against those versions with proper EVs. 80 defense is alright as it resists the main physical attacks.

I am still tinkering with the Offensive stats, but it should be able to ohko Tyranitar with Brick Break with a small EV investment, and utilize Hydro Pump to 2hko things like Skarmory, as well as do decent damage to Heatran. I will run calculations for them shortly.

NOT my final submission.

[Icy Vegeta]

I will post my spread when all the biases, are decided.

[Comatose811]

EDIT: I love Hyra's new spread below me. It has my full support.

[Hyra]

New Spread:
125/105/60/40/120/105
Physical Sweepiness: 162, Very Good
Physical Tankiness: 110, Above Average
Special Sweepiness: 67, Very Bad
Special Tankiness: 194, Amazing
Offense/Defense Balance: -9.9, Slight Bias to Defense
Physical/Special Bias: 17.4, Moderate Bias to Physical
Overall Rating: 537, Excellent.

YAY!!! I got over 100 Attack and Speed while still keeping in line with the guidelines. I can actually increase SAtk by like 20 or 30 points, but I need to know the Overall Rating Range first (since I am at the top of it).

The Physical Tankiness is a little worse than Vaporeon who has the same Def and 5 more HP, with less useful physical resists, so it evens out. The Special Tankiness is what I needed to keep my high Physical Attack.

[Infiltrator]

How about this ?:

[Lawman]

Hyra's spread fits very nicely as far as I can tell. Loads better than mine, and will most likely get my support.

[Hyra]

Why are all these Stat Spreads so slow? It's much easier to check something if they don't get two hits on you before you can touch them.

[Goodbar]

This will probably be my final spread unless anyone has any minor nitpicks. Every CAP project so far has been mostly one dimensional in its role, but this time I'd like to try something that could fit more than one role, and I think it fits the concept perfectly. Here are some calcs, and further down some more explantion...

Defensively (EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spdef, +Spdef nature):
- CB Tyranitar Stone Edge 252 Atk +Atk: 36.39% - 42.82% 3HKO
- Scarftran Hidden Power [Grass] 252 Spatk +Spatk: 32.18% - 38.12% 3-4HKO
- Zapdos Thunderbolt 0 Spatk Neutral: 47.52% - 56.44% 2-3HKO
- Stratagem LO TechDrain 252 Spatk Neutral: 46.04% - 54.46% 2-3HKO
- Lucario LO XSpeed 252 Atk Neutral (0/0 neutral mon): 35.5% - 42%

Offensively:
- 252/252 Bold Blissey with Cross Chop, 0 Atk Neutral: 49.86% - 59.10% 2HKO with SR
- Same with LO Close Combat, 108 Atk Neutral: 87.68% - 103.64$ OHKO with SR
- 252/0 Bold Zapdos with Water Spout, 252 Spatk Neutral: 54.17% - 64.06% 2HKO
- 252/0 Neutral Tyranitar with Cross Chop, 0 Atk Neutral: 90.10% - 106.93% OHKO with SR
- 6/0 Neutral Stratagem with Cross Chop, 0 Atk Neutral: 87.57% - 103.11% OHKO with SR
- 6/0 Neutral Heatran with Surf, 0 Spatk Neutral: 55.56% - 65.43% 2HKO

This is just a taste, if you want anymore don't hesitate to ask, since most of them were based on defensive versions of this guy. Since this spread gives our future mon the potential to run a lot of different sets, it's hard to decide what's important to see.

Why this Pokemon can succeed:
- Defenses as shown are good enough to counter what it is intended to
- Offenses are helped by strong STAB options
- Multiple sets allow this mon to potentially check/counter all the top 10, let alone the top 5
- We don't need another bulky water, though this can function as one, its offensive options should not be anything to laugh at

Why this Pokemon won't necessarily overcentralize:
- It's stats are still average all around
- Each singular set will most likely be counterable

So please consider this, if you want extra calcs or to nitpick on the exact spread, feel free to do so. I'm sure we can make this new mon into something pretty interesting!

EDIT: Added +5 base speed

[crobatchop]

135/54/95/100/70/71 Total:525

PS: 76 --- Bad (-2)
PT: 167 --- Extremely good (5)
SS: 127 --- Moderately Good (2)
ST: 130 --- Moderately Good (2)
OD Bal: -15 --- Moderate Bias to Def
PS Bal: -14.9 --- Moderate Bias to Sp
Rating: 368 -- V.good