CAP 6 - Part 13 - Complete Movepool Discussion

[darkie]

Originally Posted by Fat Concept

Name: Decentralizer
Description: A Pokemon can check a majority of the current top 5 Pokemon.

Type: Water / Fight
Ability: Unaware
Stats: 105 HP / 110 Atk / 95 Def / 70 SpA / 100 SpD / 75 Spe
For the record, the current top 10 on the CAP server are:

1. Stratagem
2. Revenankh
3. Fidgit
4. Tyranitar
5. Zapdos
6. Syclant
7. Blissey
8. Heatran
9. Scizor
10. Pyroak

This is the thread where all competitive moves are integrated into a complete pokemon movepool, which includes Level-Up, TM, HM, and Egg Moves. This is also the thread where Breeding Group is discussed.

Based on participation in the previous movepool threads, the TL should select several members to present a complete movepool submission.

Allowed moves are the ONLY Competitive moves that are allowed in a final movepool. All other Competitive moves, even those not mentioned in the Move discussion thread -- are NOT ALLOWED in a final movepool.

Any Non-Competitive move can be included in a complete movepool.

If anyone attempts to include additional Competitive moves, not agreed in the previous polls, it will be the TL's responsibility to see that the submitter removes them from the full movepool submission.

X-Act wrote a guide that describes the characteristics of an appropriate movepool. That guide is located here, and should be used as a reference for all movepool submitters.

Reference
You must follow these guidelines

Offensive
Allowed:
-Cross Chop
-Hammer Arm
-Close Combat
-Brick Break
-Aqua Tail
-Waterfall
-Hydro Pump
-Surf
-Low Kick
-Earthquake
-SuperPower
-Focus Punch
-Ice Beam
-Body Slam
-Rock Slide
-Zen Headbutt
-Blizzard
-Sky Uppercut
-Seismic Toss
-Force Palm
-Drain Punch
-Ice Punch
-Reversal
-Hi Jump Kick
-DynamicPunch
-Double Kick
-Dive
-Water Pulse
-Dig
-Ice Fang
-Icy Wind
-Punishment
-Revenge
-Bite
-Avalanche
-Brine
-Reversal
-Aqua Jet
-Mach Punch
-Ice Shard
-Stone Edge
-ThunderPunch
-Drill Peck


Unallowed:
-Hydro Cannon
-Muddy Water
-Rock Blast
-Rock Wrecker
-Head Smash
-Eruption
-Overheat
-Blast Burn
-Fire Blast
-Flamethrower
-Heat Wave
-Lava Plume
-Sacred Fire
-Flare Blitz
-Fire Punch
-Fire Fang
-Flame Wheel
-Blaze Kick
-X-Scissor
-U-turn
-Sucker Punch
-Attack Order
-Crunch
-Shadow Claw
-Payback
-Payback
-Brave Bird
-Wood Hammer
-Seed Bomb
-Needle Arm
-Thunderbolt
-Shock Wave
-Charge Beam
-Spark

Support
Allowed:
-Iron Defense
-Yawn
-Toxic
-Roar
-Stockpile
-Amnesia
-Barrier
-Meditate / Howl
-Aqua Ring
-Haze
-Counter
-Swagger
-Flatter
-Swallow
-Charm / Featherdance
-Scary Face
-Mud Sport
-Rapid Spin
-Glare
-Gastro Acid
-Me First
-Block / Mean Look
-Refresh
-Foresight
-Mudslap
-Mist
-Role Play
-Torment
-Magic Coat
-Mirror Move
-Bulk Up
-Curse
-Recover / Slack Off / Milk Drink / Softboiled / Heal Order
-Encore
-Psych Up
-Taunt
-Mirror Coat
-Thunder Wave

Unallowed:
-Swords Dance
-Nasty Plot
-Baton Pass
-Rock Polish
-Roost
-Synthesis
-Growth
-Disable
-Hypnosis
-Agility

X-Act's movepool guide - use this guide to create movepools
Competitive move lists - these moves (unless in the allowed lists above) are unallowed

[Solstice]

I would like to mention how is Drill Peck going to work with the designs, either of the top 2 it doesnt work. Well, I guess Aragornbirds has a hint of a beak, but we still need a way to work it in.

[Gothic Togekiss]

^ His beak grows in size and spins like a power tool on steroids? Cyzir's design could just twist it's tentacles around to form a drill and "Giga Drill Breaker!!!" things to death.

[darkie]

Those are just moves that are allowed. They don't have to be in your movepool!

[tennisace]

Why does it matter again how we justify things? Justify Wooper using Focus Punch. We can do whatever we want within reason. If we do or don't put Drill Peck on this Pokemon, I want it to be because it would help decentralize the metagame (which I think it would), not because it would or wouldn't work flavor wise. So I'm asking everyone: for competitive moves throw flavor out the window while constructing a movepool. I know I will.

[Not Scicky]

I love the fact that Aragornbirds design has a sword, but can't learn swords dance...

Originally Posted by Fat Gothic Togekiss

^ His beak grows in size and spins like a power tool on steroids? Cyzir's design could just twist it's tentacles around to form a drill and "Giga Drill Breaker!!!" things to death.

Hey my design was the one with the Kamina Glasses >:|

[billymills]

Originally Posted by Fat Atyroki

I love the fact that Aragornbirds design has a sword, but can't learn swords dance...

I do too, because it proves that CAP is NOT using flavor based arguments, and is supporting moves based on their viability and usefulness to the metagame. Thanks for pointing that out Atyroki.

I'm still a bit iffy on stat-up moves. Especially since this is specially bulky. However, 4 weaks to primarily special attacks means this won't have the huge domination revenakh did. It also has few answers to Bulkmie or slowbro (Use it). There is really no difference between Curse and Bulk Up. Don't argue against one then support the other.

[sbc]

is this basically movepool submission where you can fish for replies or just an integrated version of the previous two threads about supporting and attacking moves?

[darkie]

this is for movepool submission

[X-Trader]

TM List so far:

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM04 - Calm Mind
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute

So far these are the details. All the necessary TMs are included. Thunder Wave is controversial, but I think it should be allowed, I would like a more solid opinion on that by the consensus. Thunder Wave is basically allowed because the squid can use its ink to paralyze while the ninja can use its tentacles to well paralyze as well. On the competitive side though, it helps the Pokemon in general, as it lowers the speed of its opposition giving it relatively high speed, and with being bulky it can act like a tank too (remember my concept a while back?) The pirate looks like it can use Dark Pulse, although it won't matter either way since the SpA base stat is too low to take advantage of this. Stone Edge is used since it is on all Fighting-types (or well the ones I actually know and play with...) Aerial Ace is one of those moves with low Base Power, but can be used, and since it is going to be probably the only Flying-type Attacking move, I decided to include it. It won't see much use, but there is no limit to the creativity. Poison Jab makes sense if you think about it, one is a squid, while one looks like a lethal attacker and had a poisonous color scheme as CyzirVisheen had shown. Most of these moves are non-controversial, if they do spark some controversy I want a consensus or at least an opinion that you can back up.

HM List so far:

HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall

Self explanatory. Cut is allowed only because of the pirate design, while the rest correspond to the typing (Water / Fighting)

Move Tutors:

- Ice Punch
- Thunderpunch 
- Superpower
- Trick
- Zen Headbutt
- Helping Hand
- Iron Defense

Ice Punch + Thunderpunch = Pseudo-BoltBeam. Thunderpunch is allowed well because of Gyarados, and because of Flying-types. Stone Edge can also be used so it has no real purpose than for flavor, although I think this is a bit controversial and can be removed. Elevator Music, SoT, tennisace, etc. Your guys opinion? Helping Hand + Iron Defense. These are support moves and basically Helping Hand doesn't matter but Iron Defense does. I think the ability to buff up your defenses should be allowed as it brings no real purpose if you have Bulk Up. At least it can have some use, why limit creativity if you really don't have to? Superpower is there as that move I think it needs. It is a Fighting-type and most of them have Superpower as a move tutor move.

Level-Up List

1. Scratch
1. Growl
1. Leer
5. Bubble
9. Water gun
13. Smoke Screen
17. Arm Thrust
21. (On evolution) Octazooka
33. Slash
37. Sky Uppercut
39. Hydro Pump
57. Close Combat

Pretty basic here. All 3 competitive moves are used. Close Combat, Aqua Jet , and Sky Uppercut to note. Close Combat is the premier move, while Hydro Pump is the move needed to make this seem not so broken movepool wise. The rest are all just basic moves. This is pretty self-explanatory. Any controversy?

Egg Moves (Water1 / Ground):

- Aqua Jet
- Mach Punch
- Constrict
- Iron Head
- Cross Chop
- Leer
- Peck
- Recover

The repetition of the Punches, while the weak priority moves of Mach Punch and Aqua Jet are gained. The rest are all fillers except Recover. Recover is there as I didn't really want to fit any where else. This also allows for illegal combinations no matter what egg groups ;)

Oh and this Egg Moves list is going to be fluctuating a lot, since the Breeding Group hasn't been decided. This was made really quick so any mistakes can be posted here or PM'd to me. I really want this to be from the populace not just me. I also want us to get what would be better for the metagame's environment right now (be eco-friendly!)

[CyzirVisheen]

I think priority should be put on trying to separate Bulk Up/Curse and Recover from each other, if both are on a move set. Also, keeping the priority attacks to a minimum is a must.

[TekkenStorm]

Ok, i was doing my TM list but Rain Dance isn't on the Allowed List and its considered competitive... does this mean it isn't allowed even though in X-Acts thread it says that it must always be chosen???

[billymills]

This is just a starter, I will change this completely by poll time.

H.Ice Punch
H. Thunder Punch
1. Scratch
1. Growl
1. Leer
5. Bubble
9. Water gun
13. Smoke Screen
17. Aqua Jet
21. (On evolution) Octazooka
27. Arm Thrust
33. Slash
39. Water Pulse
45. Whirlpool
51. Hydro Pump
57. Close Combat

Punches do not count because they are Tutor moves, see below. Aqua Jet is decent, but don't think it's overpowered, a +2 Aqua jet is still weaker than a +2 Scizor Quick Attack. That is not very impressive. Hydro Pump is necessary if this is going to do anything to physical walls. And comes off a decent Special attack. Close Combat is useful, but seeing as this is supposed to be a rather bulky attacker, I'd not sure how the defense drops will be perceived.

Egg:
Mach Punch
Muddy Water
Crush Claw
Curse
Ice Shard
Low Kick

Final 3 viable moves here. Mach Punch again is not all that great, unless you're trying to beat down a Tyranitar or Lucario. Ice shard will help against Salamence, but that's about it. Low Kick is the Main fighting move in the pool. With few drawbacks, It will hit Tyranitar and Heatran extra hard, The few light pokemon can be dealt with with 120 power waterfall and 100 power Earthquake.

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM04 - Calm Mind
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM51 - Roost
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM69 - Rock Polish
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM75 - Swords Dance
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM81 - X-scissor
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall

Gets a lot of important moves here, namely Waterfall, Focus Punch, Earthquake, and Stone Edge, giving it decent Physical Type coverage. Brick Break is here, if you need something even more reliable than Low Kick.

Dive
Ice Punch
Knock Off
Thunder Punch
Vacuum Wave
Helping Hand
Snore
Uproar
Aqua Tail
Earthpower
Endeavor
Mud Slap

Punches help out against the likes of Gyarados and the dragons. Aqua Tail gives an extra boost in power over Waterfall.

[TekkenStorm]

You should probably add Blizzard, every water pokemon that gets Ice Beam gets it.

EDIT: Removed my submission as its almost identical as Deck Knights but hes is completed and more awesome.... so Deck Knight FTW

[Elevator Music]

OK here's my movepool for the pirate squid since that's what's winning in the polls so far ;_;

H. Bubble
H. Aqua Jet
H. Scary Face
H. Aqua Ring
6. Wrap
10. Beat Up
14. Counter
19. Body Slam
23. Revenge
29. Punishment
36. Bite
48. Seismic Toss
52. Hammer Arm

OK I guess. I'm not sure if Revenge and Punishment count as competitive though .-.

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM54 - False Swipe
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM78 - Captivate
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall

Nothing too controversial I think. I can't see this thing using Blizzard so I didn't include it. Same for Rock Slide really. For those with complaints, nobody is going to use them anyways so why does it matter?

Egg moves
 
Bubblebeam
Octazooka
Smokescreen
Pursuit
Recover

Since Recover is pretty crucial to me. The rest are just kinda filler, though Pursuit is arguably competitive. Egg group being Water 1. For convience, here is a list of parents...

Bubblebeam: Poliwrath, Azumarill, Politoed, Corsola, Octillery, Mantine, Kingdra, Ludicolo, Surkskit, Crawdaunt, Empoleon. Omastar and Kabutops from breeding.
Octazooka: Octillery. Kingdra from breeding.
Smokescreen: Kingdra
Pursuit: Wingull, Floatzel
Recover: Corsola, Milotic, Gastrodon

Move Tutors
 
Knock Off
Fury Cutter
Ice Punch
Gastro Acid
Gunk Shot
Trick
Superpower

Not outrageous. Pretty plain actually.


As an overview, here's the important things mine has/doesn't have:
- No Bulk Up/Curse
- Only 1 priority move in Aqua Jet
- Superpower/Hammer Arm as high powered Fighting STAB
- Stone Edge to hit Gyara, Zapdos, and to a lesser extent Salamence
- No Thunderpunch^
- Ice Punch to further hit Salamence and is the second most punishing move to Celebi switchins
- A recovery move.

I think that sums it up.

[Deck Knight]

Originally Posted by Fat billymills

I do too, because it proves that CAP is NOT using flavor based arguments, and is supporting moves based on their viability and usefulness to the metagame. Thanks for pointing that out Atyroki.

I'm still a bit iffy on stat-up moves. Especially since this is specially bulky. However, 4 weaks to primarily special attacks means this won't have the huge domination revenakh did. It also has few answers to Bulkmie or slowbro (Use it). There is really no difference between Curse and Bulk Up. Don't argue against one then support the other.

Actually all it proves is we decide Movepool before Art, natch.

I'll have my submission up in a few. I'm basing this on aragornbird's Art.

Level Up moves:
- Peck
- Leer
4. Bubble
7. Supersonic
11. Bubblebeam
15. Aqua Jet
19. Smokescreen
22. Bullet Punch
25. Punishment
27. Aqua Ring
31. Wrap
38. Cross Chop
43. Slash
50. Wring Out
59. Hydro Pump

Egg Moves:

Encore
Stockpile
Swallow
Spit Up
Mach Punch
Ice Shard
Octazooka
Revenge

TMs:

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall

Tutor Moves:

Fury Cutter
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Vacuum Wave
Zen Headbutt
Snore
Uproar
Bounce
Gastro Acid
Gunk Shot
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Superpower

Overview:

Basically speaking, this can use any combination of priority moves it wants (Dewgong can breed Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, and Encore). In exchange, this has the primary STAB for fighting as Cross Chop or Superpower, with Waterfall as the Water backup.

For Rev-beating options you have Zen Headbutt, Bounce (this is fishlike enough to get it), and Aerial Ace. It also has Punishment, Encore, and Psych Up to punish stat-uppers, as well as both Taunt and Torment.

Since it's an Octopus, I provided plenty of "Ink-based" moves like Gunk Shot, Sludge Bomb, Smokescreen, etc, as well as Peck (die Breloom, DIE!).

Bulk Up is included.

EDITS: Aqua Jet and Mach Punch have swappeed, with Aqua Jet in Level-up and Mach Punch in Breed moves. Octazooka and Revenge added in Egg moves, Acid removed (Only Water 3 pokemon learn Acid).

Breeding Group assumed: Water 1/Humanshape.
This means that the legal egg move combinations are:

Encore and Ice Shard: Dewgong
Encore and Mach Punch: Infernape
Encore and Revenge: Machamp
Mach Punch and Revenge: Hitmontop

[Infiltrator]

This is based on Aragornbird's Art submission:

1.Constrict
1.Low Kick
1.Whirlpool 
6.Peck
7.Water Gun
12.Octazooka
15.Mach Punch
20.Slack Off
32.Aqua Ring
37.Sky Uppercut
42.Hydro Pump
43.Sludge Bomb
55.Close Combat

Mostly Physical have good. I added Sludge Bomb, Octazooka and Contrict since of the Octopus theme.

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance 
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM47 - Steel Wing
TM49 - Snatch
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
 TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM64 - Explosion
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM76 - Stealth Rock
TM77 - Psych Up
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM86 - Grass Knot
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon

HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfal

Get alot of physcial and supporting moves Toxic, Focus Punch, Grass Knot, putting in Snatch and Thief since it has the Pirate theme but that doesn't really matter. Also countains Bulk Up o_O.

[Gothic Togekiss]

Originally Posted by Fat Sikh Assassin

Oh and this Egg Moves list is going to be fluctuating a lot, since the Breeding Group hasn't been decided. This was made really quick so any mistakes can be posted here or PM'd to me. I really want this to be from the populace not just me. I also want us to get what would be better for the metagame's environment right now (be eco-friendly!)

Water1/Humanshape egg group allows you to gain Mach Punch and Aqua Jet but not together. Water1/Ground if you just don't give a damn about Smeargle. Personally I find your movepool rather appealing at the moment.

I don't see the reason to keep them separte as I don't see the danger having two stabbed priority moves when they're a lack of Technician support. Anyone have a viable example onto the woes of having double stab priority would have on the metagame?

Edit: Last paragraph wasn't directed at you Sikh, it was more directed at everyone who would try something like that.

[X-Trader]

There is no woe, it is just that I haven't played on the server much, so I would not know what you would consider a threat although you are right that even with Technician it wouldn't be much of a threat, so Water1/Ground for Smeargle accessibility. This way you can get Aqua Jet / Mach Punch / Recover on the same set if you wanted although we have Revenankh who does it better and doesn't need priority on his second STAB

Edit: Sorry GT :P

[xcfrisco]

Originally Posted by Fat Deck Knight

movepool

I could not think of a more perfect movepool myself. No thuderpunch so at least waters can come in and check CAP6, no insta-recovery to prevent stall and so CAP6 doesn't become Revvy-lite, and no Close Combat to support the bulky nature of CAP6.

(Almost perfect I should say, would really like to see CAP6 get Octozooka ;) )

[jagged_angel]

Originally Posted by Fat Elevator Music

OK I guess. I'm not sure if Revenge and Punishment count as competitive though .-. Night Slash wan't banned though Shadow Claw was (which is backwards competitive thinking really if you're trying to load this guy up on moves that beat Rev, which are slim...) so I included it.

EM If you re-read the Attacking Moves Discussion you'll see a general consensus that this shouldnt get any competitive Dark, Ghost or Bug moves aside from Punishment/Pursuit/Payback (and others that are only borderline competitive) in order to encourage use of Psychic types as counters.

My personal feeling is that Punishment should be the best Dark option so that stat uppers are doubly punished if they say in to try and not lose those 4 Bulk Ups they've just got.

Dark moves are neutral on Rev anyway since Fighting types resist them so please, for the love of Psychics, don't include Night Slash! :-) Zen Headbutt is the best option for Rev.

Originally Posted by Fat xcfrisco

I could not think of a more perfect movepool myself. No thuderpunch so at least waters can come in and check CAP6, no insta-recovery to prevent stall and so CAP6 doesn't become Revvy-lite, and no Close Combat to support the bulky nature of CAP6.

You've just described almost all the things that I Don't want in a movepool. Thunderpunch isn't going to do much to bulky waters without a boost since it's unstabbed and low BP. Needs including. 50% recovery better supports the bulky nature of CAP6 than Close Combat would so it should have 50% recovery but Close Combat should be excluded. Excluding Bulk Up and Curse would Also stop it becoming Revvy lite and be a much better way to do it.

[dmlaw]

Here's some initial thoughts for the squid design. All comments welcomed.

H. Aqua Ring
H. Metal Claw
1. Bubble
1. Leer
6. Peck
10. Mud Sport
14. Arm Thrust
19. Glare
23. Stockpile
23. Swallow
23. Spit Up
29. Octazooka
36. Counter
39. Cross Chop
45. Iron Defence
55. Hydro Pump

Egg:
Wrap
Aqua Jet
Mach Punch
Supersonic
Acid
Body Slam
Flail
Encore

Water3/Humanshape breeding group

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall
HM08 - Rock Climb

Dive
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Vacuum Wave
Zen Headbutt
Helping Hand
Snore
Uproar
Aincientpower
Aqua Tail
Gastro Acid
Iron Defence
Mud Slap
Rollout
Superpower

I've not put Thunderpunch in, which I'm quite torn about.

[X-Act]

This is the CAP where I didn't submit anything myself so far. I'll have to remedy that!

[TekkenStorm]

After seing Deck Knights Submission, i think i should resign lol as hes is exactly what i was going to do for mine.

[X-Act]

I have a few questions regarding the 'competitive move lists' which are all unallowed.

According to it, the moves Snatch, Sludge Bomb, Poison Jab, Iron Tail etc. are competitive moves. If we go by the rule that 'all competitive moves except those listed are banned', then we'll have 8 or so movepool submissions which are all basically the same except for one or two moves. I'll question the wisdom of labelling a move such as Sludge Bomb 'competitive'. How is it competitive? Certainly a move such as Ice Shard is much better than Sludge Bomb for this Pokemon... but while the former is allowed, the latter is not!

As I always say, common sense should prevail. I should be allowed to include Sludge Bomb in my movepool for Pete's sake. :\