CAP 6 - Part 13 - Complete Movepool Discussion

[jagged_angel]

Tekken if you want a 50% recovery move you also have GT's EM's and my movepool to choose from.

X-Act I think your splitting up of the 3 choices is cleverly done and I wouldn't want you to change it but think that quite alot of people would want better Fighting STAB available for use with BU and Recover.

Brick Break is quite underpowered as the best STAB for BU or Recover sets. Most OU fighters have 120 or 100 BP moves as primary STAB. I'm not suggesting adding anything in particular just saying that Recover sets will lack a decent Fighting STAB or resort to Focus Punch, seems a bit of a shame. BU sets also wont be able to OHKO TTar with Brick Break or 2HKO Heatran. Not sure bout Stratagem.

Sky Uppercut maybe?

[TekkenStorm]

Yours and EM didn't have Bulk up though and GT one was posted after my post and i actually like it, i think he got my vote :)

[sbc]

Or even Hammer Arm. That's the only thing about X-Act's final submission that I don't really like.

[Time Mage]

I think X-Act pulled a really brilliant move there. So far, it's my number one choice, but I'll look at all movepools closely when the poll comes to decide.

[tennisace]

Originally Posted by Fat Time Mage

I think X-Act pulled a really brilliant move there. So far, it's my number one choice, but I'll look at all movepools closely when the poll comes to decide.

Agreed. There's little point in me making a movepool just to do the same thing, kudos!

[ferron]

x-act, i have stopped working on a moveset after reading yours. i honestly don't think i could match the amount of subtle brilliance you put into it. you have already won my vote.

[SgtWoodsy]

I'm quite fond of X-Act's, but I really don't like the lack of a reliable Fighting-type move.

Brick Break doesn't cut it, for mine.

[tennisace]

What reliable Fighting move is there with no drawbacks? Cross Chop has shaky accuracy, as does Dynamic Punch. Close Combat blows on a tank. I'd love to see Low Kick on there, because it hits all the main targets hard. If X-Act could add that in, it would be perfect. (Hint Hint, Nod Nod, Wink Wink)

[Gothic Togekiss]

Can a monster with tentacles for legs even kick? Even better question, does it even count as a kick period? I'll do like the idea behind Low Kick though and might add it into my list

[tennisace]

Originally Posted by Fat Gothic Togekiss

Can a monster with tentacles for legs even kick? Even better question, does it even count as a kick period? I'll do like the idea behind Low Kick though and might add it into my list

Can a monster without fists punch? Wooper and Togekiss can.

[darkie]

lol does it even matter? how does a wooper use focus punch? does it even count as a punch?

read: it doesn't matter at all.

[Deck Knight]

Originally Posted by Fat SkarmBlissCounter

X-Act's movepool is pretty much spot on for me.

Also, DK, Close Combat hits everything except Gyarados harder than ThunderPunch anyway. And Hammer Arm is only 15 BP weaker anyway.

Close Combat deals less damage to Slowbro, Starmie, and Tentacruel. It leaves it open to retaliation via Psychic/Thunderbolt. And, should I choose to be super anal about it, Drifblim and Crobat. Tentacruel I suppose hits stalemate, but then again, Sludge Bomb probably does some damage after an SD drop. Crobat on the other hand revels in switching into Close Combat.

Anyway, I'm no fan of throwing instant recovery on an Octopirate of all things. If I were I'd make it into a joke like Milk Drink. I may revise a little, find a way to put Low Kick on there or something.

[Gothic Togekiss]

Originally Posted by Fat tennisace

There's a difference from competitive ridiculous and flavor ridiculous. Low Kick is neither, seeing that this Pokemon appears to be using two tentacles as legs. Stuff like Fire Punch is both, since it takes out Grass-type counters for no real reason, and water douses fire.

And the Wooper/Focus Punch falls into what catalog? I see it as neither since it doesn't really use Focus Punch in any competitive set nor make any sense from a flavor standpoint. The Wooper logic seem to be a double edged sword to me as it open a truckload of doors upon bringing it up. If Wooper can do the impossible, why can't everyone else do the same?

Originally Posted by Fat Deck Knight

Anyway, I'm no fan of throwing instant recovery on an Octopirate of all things. If I were I'd make it into a joke like Milk Drink.

Hey at least it's not Revenankh or worse Revvy2.0. The ability to turn status affliction into absolute shit by the mere act of taking a quick snooze is very powerful. Seriously if it had that kind of tanking ability, CAP6 would have been mega nerfed by now. Recover doesn't save it from Toxic or WoW and moveset restrictions are already a big hassle on CAP6.

[darkie]

we could have given this guy Fly if we felt it would help it decentralize.

[Deck Knight]

One last note: If I hear the Wooper B*&^%!t one more time I think I'll go off the deep end. Wooper doesn't even learn Focus Punch. It does get Dynamicpunch via Breeding. Which puts it in the same league as elepunching Gastly, I suppose. At least it has a fist-like appendage. As for Togekiss, Togetic has arms and can use it. Case closed.

Edit re: darkie:

Fly = 90 BP, 15PP, 95 Acc. Bounce = 85 BP, 5 PP, 85 Acc, 30% para chance.

Just sayin'...

Final Submission:

Level Up moves:
- Peck
- Leer
4. Bubble
7. Supersonic
11. Bubblebeam
15. Aqua Jet
19. Smokescreen
22. Bullet Punch
25. Punishment
27. Aqua Ring
31. Wrap
38. Cross Chop
43. Low Kick
50. Wring Out
59. Hydro Pump

Egg Moves: [Water 1/Humanshape, Bolded pokemon breed 2 or more moves]

Encore (Machamp/Infernape/Dewgong/Quagsire/Cacturne/Walrein/Alakazam/Mr.Mime/Volbeat/Illumise/Azumarill/Spinda/Lopunny)
Stockpile (Quagsire/Pelipper/Walrein/Gastrodon)
Swallow (Quagsire/Pelipper/Walrein/Gastrodon)
Spit Up (Quagsire/Pelipper/Walrein/Gastrodon)
Mach Punch (Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Hitmontop/Infernape/Magmortar)
Ice Shard (Dewgong/Lapras/Delibird)
Octazooka (Octillery/Kingdra)
Revenge (Machamp/Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Hitmontop/Cacturne/Hariyama/Toxicroak)
Whirlpool (Lapras/Swampert/Huntail/Gorebyss/Empoleon/Floatzel)
Haze (Blastoise/Poliwrath/Quagsire/Octillery/Mantine/Milotic)

TMs:

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM63 - Embargo
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM87 - Swagger
TM88 - Pluck
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall

Tutor Moves:

Fury Cutter
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Vacuum Wave
Zen Headbutt
Snore
Uproar
Bounce
Gastro Acid
Gunk Shot
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Superpower

Overview:

-No Thunderpunch
-Bulk Up
-Anti-Counters: Punishment, Zen Headbutt, Stone Edge, Pluck/AA, Bounce.
-Split Priority Moves (See Breeding Chart Above), Aqua Jet/Bullet Punch/Vacuum Wave standard, Mach Punch or Ice Shard through breeding.
-Unique support:
Move jamming: Encore, Taunt, Torment, Snatch
Item jamming: Knock Off, Thief, Embargo
Ability jamming: Gastro Acid
Stat-Up punishers: Psyche Up, Haze
Other: Aqua Ring, Stockpile series, Wrap/Whirlpool.
-Fighting STAB options: Focus Punch, Superpower, Cross Chop, Low Kick, Brick Break, Drain Punch, Revenge

Of which, I think Cross Chop overshadows Low Kick competitively because of it's consistently high power. Low Kick hits a select few things harder, but does worse overall, especially to lightweight Psychic, Poison, and Flying switchins. Revenge has its own drawback of being slower out than Focus Punch, and conditional upon receiving damage to be effective.

[X-Act]

I made Cross Chop illegal with Bulk Up and illegal with Recover for a reason. If you can't see that reason, then go ahead and don't vote for me. That's all I'm going to say at this point.

[Deucalion2]

X-Act, your movepool is great. The only slight thing more I'd ever want is access to Revenge and/or Low Kick. If it had those, there is no possible way any other set could usurp my vote from it.

[X-Act]

Revenge did cross my mind. In fact, my choice of Fighting move in the Level-up list was between it and Submission. Low Kick was out of the question for me since it presupposes that the Pokemon has legs.

In the end, I went for Submission, as I didn't want a move that has negative priority (Revenge always go second).

[Deucalion2]

Is there any chance you could sneak Revenge on as well? You still have room for a competitive move in the level up list, if Revenge is considered competitive, and it would really help add variety for those who want a Recovery move but fancy something other than Break Break. The negative priority makes a nice contrast to the Mach Punch, etc, thing, as well, and would help keep people on their toes when trying to outmaneouvre it.

Pretty please?

[X-Act]

Well, okay. I replaced it with Reversal, which was there for no particular reason.

I'm now wrapping it up, Christmas-style. (Anyone got any good wrapping paper?)

[dmlaw]

Final submission

Only minor changes from the original set, with the exception of the addition of Thunderpunch.

H. Aqua Ring
H. Metal Claw
1. Bubble
1. Leer
6. Peck
10. Mud Sport
14. Arm Thrust
19. Glare
23. Stockpile
23. Swallow
23. Spit Up
29. Octazooka
36. Counter
39. Cross Chop
45. Iron Defence
55. Hydro Pump

Egg: assuming Water3/Humanshape breeding group
Wrap (Tentacruel)
Aqua Jet (Kabutops)
Mach Punch (Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee/Hitmontop/Infernape/Magmortar)
Supersonic (Tentacruel/Cloyster/Omastar)
Acid (Tentacruel)
Body Slam (Jynx)
Flail (Kingler/Spinda/Kabutops)
Encore (Mr. Mime/Alakazam/Machamp/Spinda/Infernape/Lopunny)

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM67 - Recycle
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM77 - Psych Up
TM78 - Captivate
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall
HM08 - Rock Climb

Dive
Ice Punch
Icy Wind
Knock Off
Thunderpunch
Vacuum Wave
Zen Headbutt
Helping Hand
Snore
Swift
Uproar
Aincientpower
Bounce
Gastro Acid
Iron Defence
Mud Slap
Rollout
Superpower

Key things:
No 50% recovery
No Thunderwave (Body Slam or Glare if you really want paralysis)
Bulk Up included
Thunderpunch now included
Aqua Jet and Mach Punch available but not on the same set

[Deucalion2]

Yay, thanks, X-Act. You have secured my vote for sure.

[Gothic Togekiss]

here is my final submission. Please note that we movepool creator thrive on advices and opinions given by fellow members. If you have a problem with a certain movepool when it comes down with voting, blame yourself for not speaking up and throwing your suggestions around =/.

Final Submission

Level-up Move

H. Aqua Ring
H. Wrap
- Peck
- Growl
- Leer
5. Growl
9. Leer
13. Water Gun
17. Metal Claw
21. Scary Face
27. Bubble Beam
33. Yawn
39. Slash
45. Drill Peck
51. Cross Chop
57. Wring Out
61. Hydro Pump

Cross Chop, Hydro Pump are considered competitive majority of the time. Scary Face, Drill Peck, Yawn, and Aqua Ring have some use but would probably won't be used a lot.

TM List so far:

TM01 - Focus Punch
TM03 - Water Pulse
TM06 - Toxic
TM07 - Hail
TM08 - Bulk Up
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM13 - Ice Beam
TM14 - Blizzard
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM16 - Light Screen
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM33 - Reflect
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM54 - False Swipe
TM55 - Brine
TM56 - Fling
TM58 - Endure
TM60 - Drain Punch
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM73 - Thunder Wave
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
HM01 - Cut
HM03 - Surf
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM07 - Waterfall

Nothing spectacular about it to be honest. Bulk Up is within the list however and I'm not removing for any reason.

Move Tutors:

-Dive
- Fury Cutter
- Gastro Acid
- Gunk Shot
- Ice Punch
- Iron Defense
- Iron Head
- Knock Off
- Superpower
- Thunderpunch
- Vacuum Wave

Attacks in bold are believed to be competitive viable on CAP6

Egg Move: (Assuming CAP6 will be placed within the Water 1/Humanshape group)

- Recover
- Mirror Coat
- Smokescreen
- Stockpile
- Swallow
- Spit Up
- Octazooka
- Low Kick
- Force Palm
- Punishment

Competitive moves: Recover and Mirror Coat.

I'm somewhat big on having a recovery move not named Rest/Wish on CAP6 at the moment since people seem afraid of them. Mirror Coat majority here because I needed something to separate myself from the rest of the submitters and because of it's usefulness. To be honest, I never did like Counter&Mirror Coat, prediction heavy move are a pain in the ass in my opinion. Surprisingly enough, 16 water type Pokemon learn Mirror Coat in one way or other. The rest are flavor moves deemed most fitting.

Main Movepool Selling Points:
- 50% recovery move in the form of Recover
- Bulk Up is within it's movepool
- Cross Chop for main stab, Superpower for Choice set. Low Kick is an alternative for both.
- ThunderPunch and Stone Edge are added.
- Drill Peck for coverage against Fighting types.
- No physical priority moves.
- Unique Egg moves: Mirror Coat, Drill Peck, and Force Palm

[X-Trader]

I'm voting for GT's over my own, but mine will still be up there if anyone prefers it ;)

[Gothic Togekiss]

^ You just need to remove Shadow Claw from the list to be a legal movepool and you'll do fine.